NPR

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:04 pm I see mince for brains Patel got a proper kicking from Yvette Cooper during the Home Affairs Committee session.

Expect this to be added to the list of things that hold the Government to account to do away with, even as they publish their plans to fuck judicial review.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:16 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:04 pm I see mince for brains Patel got a proper kicking from Yvette Cooper during the Home Affairs Committee session.

Expect this to be added to the list of things that hold the Government to account to do away with, even as they publish their plans to fuck judicial review.

Let me guess ... they justify gutting judicial review; because the Courts system is under enormous stress, with a huge backlog of cases; for which they blame Covid ?

.
.
.

But, they completely fail to acknowledge that the huge backlog of cases predated Covid; & most of it was caused by a decade of under-funding, & them reducing Court sitting hours; & the massive cuts to Legal Aid ...

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 pm Just seen a bit of the Cummings interview- he is completely insane.

In what world is it OK for an unelected official to openly discuss removing a PM because he doesn’t agree with him (after a few days). That’s not a defence of the idiot Johnson, but fairly basic democracy

Also admitting that he has no idea if Brexit is a good idea or not.

Insane

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:29 am One days suspension from Parliament for trying to influence the judge in the Elphicke sexual assault trial.
Par for the course for these entitled cunts.
Fortunately the judge ignored it and banged the sex pest up for 2 years

Several Conservative MPs will be temporarily suspended from the Commons and told to apologise after being found to have tried to influence a judge presiding over the trial of a former colleague for sexual assault.
The one-day ban from parliament was handed down by the standards committee to backbenchers Sir Roger Gale, Theresa Villiers and Natalie Elphicke – the then partner of Charlie Elphicke, who was given two years in prison after being found guilty of three counts of sexual assault.
Two other Tory MPs – Adam Holloway and Bob Stewart – were ordered to make a statement apologising for their behaviour in the chamber, with all five found to have threatened to undermine public trust in the independence of the judicial system.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:22 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 pm Just seen a bit of the Cummings interview- he is completely insane.

In what world is it OK for an unelected official to openly discuss removing a PM because he doesn’t agree with him (after a few days). That’s not a defence of the idiot Johnson, but fairly basic democracy

Also admitting that he has no idea if Brexit is a good idea or not.

Insane

Democracies are like cars; if you don't bring them to get serviced, & fix faults regularly; you can't be surprised when the brakes fail, & you slam into a tree.

The UK has spent the better part of my lifetime, ignoring the potentially fatal flaws in it's Democratic processes, & structures; & now you're belatedly realizing how fucked you are; & how the people in charge, aren't even vaguely interesting in trying to fix them.

Labour isn't even committed to PR for fucks sake !!

You took a step towards a normal state of affairs, by putting in a Supreme Court; but now you've a Government that's committed to destroying, even that basic building block of a Democracy.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:45 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:29 am One days suspension from Parliament for trying to influence the judge in the Elphicke sexual assault trial.
Par for the course for these entitled cunts.
Fortunately the judge ignored it and banged the sex pest up for 2 years

Several Conservative MPs will be temporarily suspended from the Commons and told to apologise after being found to have tried to influence a judge presiding over the trial of a former colleague for sexual assault.
The one-day ban from parliament was handed down by the standards committee to backbenchers Sir Roger Gale, Theresa Villiers and Natalie Elphicke – the then partner of Charlie Elphicke, who was given two years in prison after being found guilty of three counts of sexual assault.
Two other Tory MPs – Adam Holloway and Bob Stewart – were ordered to make a statement apologising for their behaviour in the chamber, with all five found to have threatened to undermine public trust in the independence of the judicial system.

If only Mrs Elphicke practiced being a better wife, instead of playing politics...

'It might have been something that many people might have been thinking, but probably best not to go there. It is pretty depressing that we can't have conversations among ourselves,' they said.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 pm Just seen a bit of the Cummings interview- he is completely insane.

In what world is it OK for an unelected official to openly discuss removing a PM because he doesn’t agree with him (after a few days). That’s not a defence of the idiot Johnson, but fairly basic democracy

Also admitting that he has no idea if Brexit is a good idea or not.

Insane

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:18 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:22 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 pm Just seen a bit of the Cummings interview- he is completely insane.

In what world is it OK for an unelected official to openly discuss removing a PM because he doesn’t agree with him (after a few days). That’s not a defence of the idiot Johnson, but fairly basic democracy

Also admitting that he has no idea if Brexit is a good idea or not.

Insane

Democracies are like cars; if you don't bring them to get serviced, & fix faults regularly; you can't be surprised when the brakes fail, & you slam into a tree.

The UK has spent the better part of my lifetime, ignoring the potentially fatal flaws in it's Democratic processes, & structures; & now you're belatedly realizing how fucked you are; & how the people in charge, aren't even vaguely interesting in trying to fix them.

Labour isn't even committed to PR for fucks sake !!

You took a step towards a normal state of affairs, by putting in a Supreme Court; but now you've a Government that's committed to destroying, even that basic building block of a Democracy.

What Cummings was talking about could happen in any country where the Head of Government relies on the confidence of the legislature. No constitutional tinkering or Court alters that.

Mahoney wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:18 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:22 pm

Democracies are like cars; if you don't bring them to get serviced, & fix faults regularly; you can't be surprised when the brakes fail, & you slam into a tree.

The UK has spent the better part of my lifetime, ignoring the potentially fatal flaws in it's Democratic processes, & structures; & now you're belatedly realizing how fucked you are; & how the people in charge, aren't even vaguely interesting in trying to fix them.

Labour isn't even committed to PR for fucks sake !!

You took a step towards a normal state of affairs, by putting in a Supreme Court; but now you've a Government that's committed to destroying, even that basic building block of a Democracy.

What Cummings was talking about could happen in any country where the Head of Government relies on the confidence of the legislature. No constitutional tinkering or Court alters that.

Yup, there was nothing undemocratic about it - we don't have an elected PM, we have an elected legislature, and the PM holds office whilst he has the confidence of that legislature. People, unelected or otherwise, plotting ways to undermine that confidence in order to change the PM has been a staple of the UK since forever. It's what happened to May.

The insane thing is that he thought it was remotely possible when Johnson had just won an 80 seat majority.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:02 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 pm Just seen a bit of the Cummings interview- he is completely insane.

In what world is it OK for an unelected official to openly discuss removing a PM because he doesn’t agree with him (after a few days). That’s not a defence of the idiot Johnson, but fairly basic democracy

Also admitting that he has no idea if Brexit is a good idea or not.

Insane

Didn't watch the Cummings interview because he's a self serving prick and Laura Kuennsberg is embarrassing herself dancing to the beat of his drum.

However, he's right about Brexit. Remainers nor Brexiteers will never know if it is/was a good idea. As a Remainer my belief is Brexit is bad - so far it has been bad even the vaccine bounce isn't really great Europe is opening up the same rate as we are mostly. However, I could be wrong - it might actually be exactly what we need.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:21 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:02 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 pm Just seen a bit of the Cummings interview- he is completely insane.

In what world is it OK for an unelected official to openly discuss removing a PM because he doesn’t agree with him (after a few days). That’s not a defence of the idiot Johnson, but fairly basic democracy

Also admitting that he has no idea if Brexit is a good idea or not.

Insane

Didn't watch the Cummings interview because he's a self serving prick and Laura Kuennsberg is embarrassing herself dancing to the beat of his drum.

However, he's right about Brexit. Remainers nor Brexiteers will never know if it is/was a good idea. As a Remainer my belief is Brexit is bad - so far it has been bad even the vaccine bounce isn't really great Europe is opening up the same rate as we are mostly. However, I could be wrong - it might actually be exactly what we need.

Oh I completely agree, I just thought it was an extraordinary admission from the man that masterminded the whole thing and fed us bullshit for years about it

Dawn Butler suspended from Commons for calling PM liar

A Labour MP was ordered to leave the House of Commons for the rest of the day after she refused to withdraw accusations Boris Johnson was a liar.

Dawn Butler told MPs that the prime minister "lied to the House and the country over and over again" about a range of pandemic-related issues.

Acting Deputy Speaker, Judith Cummins, asked her to "reflect on her words and perhaps correct the record".

The Labour MP and former shadow equalities spokeswoman said it was “funny that we get in trouble in this place for calling out the lie, rather than the person lying".

She was then ordered from the Commons on the last day of sittings before the summer recess.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:56 am I’m not one for jumping on every bit of government news as if it’s the end of the world, but this seems outrageous

Government rules out searching Matt Hancock's private emails https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57930820

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:56 am I’m not one for jumping on every bit of government news as if it’s the end of the world, but this seems outrageous

Government rules out searching Matt Hancock's private emails https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57930820

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:26 am So the only hope now is the Supreme Court ruling it in the public interest to investigate the private emails? The same Supreme Court the government wants to emasculate...

All official email correspondence should be bound to using official government emails for open accountability and for the purposes of scrutiny by the courts - to allow cabinet ministers to possibly circumvent this by getting away with using private emails really should be unconstitutional and at the very least result in removal from office.

We really do seem to be moving ever further towards parliament having the final say on anything uncomfortable they want to suppress - too easy when the government has a massive majority in the House.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:31 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:26 am So the only hope now is the Supreme Court ruling it in the public interest to investigate the private emails? The same Supreme Court the government wants to emasculate...

All official email correspondence should be bound to using official government emails for open accountability and for the purposes of scrutiny by the courts - to allow cabinet ministers to possibly circumvent this by getting away with using private emails really should be unconstitutional and at the very least result in removal from office.

We really do seem to be moving ever further towards parliament having the final say on anything uncomfortable they want to suppress - too easy when the government has a massive majority in the House.

Also for security.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:26 am So the only hope now is the Supreme Court ruling it in the public interest to investigate the private emails? The same Supreme Court the government wants to emasculate...

All official email correspondence should be bound to using official government emails for open accountability and for the purposes of scrutiny by the courts - to allow cabinet ministers to possibly circumvent this by getting away with using private emails really should be unconstitutional and at the very least result in removal from office.

We really do seem to be moving ever further towards parliament having the final say on anything uncomfortable they want to suppress - too easy when the government has a massive majority in the House.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:35 pm Every MP is well aware they will be removed from the House for calling someone a liar and not withdrawing it, good publicity stunt though

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:54 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:26 am So the only hope now is the Supreme Court ruling it in the public interest to investigate the private emails? The same Supreme Court the government wants to emasculate...

All official email correspondence should be bound to using official government emails for open accountability and for the purposes of scrutiny by the courts - to allow cabinet ministers to possibly circumvent this by getting away with using private emails really should be unconstitutional and at the very least result in removal from office.

We really do seem to be moving ever further towards parliament having the final say on anything uncomfortable they want to suppress - too easy when the government has a massive majority in the House.

Parliament is sovereign, the core element of the British constitution. No amount of Blair watching the West Wing and deciding to create a 'Supreme Court' etc changes or can change that. Fwiw I suspect according to existing law private email channels are subject to FOI, whatever the government claim.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:24 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:35 pm Every MP is well aware they will be removed from the House for calling someone a liar and not withdrawing it, good publicity stunt though

Er, talk about missing the point. The point is that that punishment is there because people are not supposed to mislead Parliament, and are expected to correct the record at the first possible opportunity. That is no longer happening. So what we have is a system that protects those who lie repeatedly and punishes those who point it out.

It is important that people like Butler do things like this. The broken system needs to be fixed, and it's not going to be fixed if people are prevented from speaking the truth.

Parliament's rules are not being applied correctly or fairly.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:36 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:24 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:35 pm Every MP is well aware they will be removed from the House for calling someone a liar and not withdrawing it, good publicity stunt though

Er, talk about missing the point. The point is that that punishment is there because people are not supposed to mislead Parliament, and are expected to correct the record at the first possible opportunity. That is no longer happening. So what we have is a system that protects those who lie repeatedly and punishes those who point it out.

It is important that people like Butler do things like this. The broken system needs to be fixed, and it's not going to be fixed if people are prevented from speaking the truth.

Parliament's rules are not being applied correctly or fairly.

The concern is that if you allow 'you're a liar' in Parliament then that's all you'll ever hear. I get the point though, what I'm saying is she knew damn well what she was doing. Publicity stunt, but a smart one.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:08 am

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:56 am I’m not one for jumping on every bit of government news as if it’s the end of the world, but this seems outrageous

Government rules out searching Matt Hancock's private emails https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57930820

"Ministers are not banned from using personal emails for work purposes."

This is just mental.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:22 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:36 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:24 pm

Er, talk about missing the point. The point is that that punishment is there because people are not supposed to mislead Parliament, and are expected to correct the record at the first possible opportunity. That is no longer happening. So what we have is a system that protects those who lie repeatedly and punishes those who point it out.

It is important that people like Butler do things like this. The broken system needs to be fixed, and it's not going to be fixed if people are prevented from speaking the truth.

Parliament's rules are not being applied correctly or fairly.

The concern is that if you allow 'you're a liar' in Parliament then that's all you'll ever hear. I get the point though, what I'm saying is she knew damn well what she was doing. Publicity stunt, but a smart one.

It's not a publicity stunt. It's something that has to be done if change is ever going to happen. She's not doing it to get her name in the papers.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:54 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:26 am So the only hope now is the Supreme Court ruling it in the public interest to investigate the private emails? The same Supreme Court the government wants to emasculate...

All official email correspondence should be bound to using official government emails for open accountability and for the purposes of scrutiny by the courts - to allow cabinet ministers to possibly circumvent this by getting away with using private emails really should be unconstitutional and at the very least result in removal from office.

We really do seem to be moving ever further towards parliament having the final say on anything uncomfortable they want to suppress - too easy when the government has a massive majority in the House.

Parliament is sovereign, the core element of the British constitution. No amount of Blair watching the West Wing and deciding to create a 'Supreme Court' etc changes or can change that. Fwiw I suspect according to existing law private email channels are subject to FOI, whatever the government claim.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:07 pm

Dawn Butler suspended from Commons for calling PM liar

A Labour MP was ordered to leave the House of Commons for the rest of the day after she refused to withdraw accusations Boris Johnson was a liar.

Dawn Butler told MPs that the prime minister "lied to the House and the country over and over again" about a range of pandemic-related issues.

Acting Deputy Speaker, Judith Cummins, asked her to "reflect on her words and perhaps correct the record".

The Labour MP and former shadow equalities spokeswoman said it was “funny that we get in trouble in this place for calling out the lie, rather than the person lying".

She was then ordered from the Commons on the last day of sittings before the summer recess.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:34 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:07 pm

Dawn Butler suspended from Commons for calling PM liar

A Labour MP was ordered to leave the House of Commons for the rest of the day after she refused to withdraw accusations Boris Johnson was a liar.

Dawn Butler told MPs that the prime minister "lied to the House and the country over and over again" about a range of pandemic-related issues.

Acting Deputy Speaker, Judith Cummins, asked her to "reflect on her words and perhaps correct the record".

The Labour MP and former shadow equalities spokeswoman said it was “funny that we get in trouble in this place for calling out the lie, rather than the person lying".

She was then ordered from the Commons on the last day of sittings before the summer recess.

Doing it just before recess does rather scream publicity stunt, but a politician playing politics isn't exactly a surprise, she's not wrong, and nor was Blackford recently. Almost no chance the other parties don't consider they'll be able to pile pressure on the PM and the Speaker over this.

I would say Boris is hardly the only PM to fail to answer questions properly, and I'd like them all being told they either need to do so or resign but it seems vanishingly unlikely anyone will actually be fined and/or jailed. And oddly any such acts may in the case of Boris only raise his popularity with people happy to vote for his lack of talent and ethics

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:58 am That they're evasive is a problem, that he lies is a different and further problem. But if you set the standard such they have to answer questions asked not that they'd like to have been asked maybe you don't escalate to still worse standards of behaviour.

I don't happen to agree with Jess either, playing politics is a perfectly acceptable expression for me, and it's quicker than saying writing a full definition. I mean maybe if you took it out and that removed all negative/pejorative commentary that would be one thing. But it's not always an overly negative thing to say, often it's said by the losing side in a debate and they simply look weird/sad, and it'd only be replaced by something else derogatory anyway

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:11 am