NPR

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:44 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:58 am That they're evasive is a problem, that he lies is a different and further problem. But if you set the standard such they have to answer questions asked not that they'd like to have been asked maybe you don't escalate to still worse standards of behaviour.

That makes no sense whatsoever, I'm sorry. Can you rewrite that so an idiot like me can understand what you're trying to say?

Plus, the fact he lies isn't a different problem, it's the actual problem everyone is talking about. Being evasive is something you're talking about on your own here.

I don't happen to agree with Jess either, playing politics is a perfectly acceptable expression for me, and it's quicker than saying writing a full definition. I mean maybe if you took it out and that removed all negative/pejorative commentary that would be one thing. But it's not always an overly negative thing to say, often it's said by the losing side in a debate and they simply look weird/sad, and it'd only be replaced by something else derogatory anyway

Politicians don't play politics, it's their job. Butler attempting to show up the PM's dishonesty and utter disregard of the rules, plus Parliament's failure to hold him to account, is not "playing politics" any more than literally any other attempt to hold people to account.

If you start with not even letting them be evasive you hopefully never escalate to them flat out lying. Yes there are some corrections needed but why be so limited as to hope the corrections should be around the most base of behaviours. Okay if all you want to talk about is the lying you do that, there's little need to be upset however if someone else widens a conversational point

And yes, calling out the PM (and others) for lying is part of their job and important. But, waiting until the final day before recess giving the press a story going into recess isn't 'just' doing the job, it is in part playing politics, which to a degree is fine because that is part of their job, but then I don't think accusing someone of playing politics means they're automatically wrong or that there's no merit to their comment(s) and of course multiple things might be true at once. And in this matter as I have my doubts the speaker or deputy speaker will now be able to easily contain further charges that the PM and others are lying, the Lib Dems, Labour, the SNP will all smell blood, the Speaker's and the PM's, even the DUP might smell blood if they think it's in their interests, one might even think they'd be willing to play politics with the issue

What's your solution for not letting them be evasive? Who has that responsibility, and how does it work in the current setup of parliament?

And I'm not "upset", it's just weird when someone acts like the conversation is about one thing when it's about something else.

Yeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:59 pm Who is the milf in pink with the big tits ?
Seems a news channel relevant to my interests !

Good news Yeeb; GB news has signed up more Political totty.

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:45 am What's your solution for not letting them be evasive? Who has that responsibility, and how does it work in the current setup of parliament?

And I'm not "upset", it's just weird when someone acts like the conversation is about one thing when it's about something else.

Lie Detectors, & Shock collars wrapped around Ministers scrotums, while they make any statements, or answer any in the House; & the voltage is index linked to their renumeration.

fishfoodie wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:50 pm

Yeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:59 pm Who is the milf in pink with the big tits ?
Seems a news channel relevant to my interests !

Good news Yeeb; GB news has signed up more Political totty.

Spoiler

Show

Ex-DUP leader Arlene Foster joins GB News

Mrs Foster said she joined the station to bring Northern Ireland into the mainstream of UK politics

I am in awe of anyone who manages to knock one out over that.

After all the rehashed oft repeated tough on crime bollocks spouted today
Well said that man
[media] [/media]

Every Tory Home Secretary tries to outdo all the previous incumbents on the "Tough on Crime" trope. It is known

Nothing to do with me guv! I was only the Health Minister during one of the scandals of our times!!!

Ken Clarke has been criticised by families affected by the infected blood inquiry for displaying “contempt” in his evidence after he showed a reluctance to answer questions.
Lord Clarke, who was a Conservative health minister from 1982 to 1985 and health secretary from 1988 to 1990, appeared to become irritated with the level of detail being examined by the lead counsel, Jenni Richards QC.
At one point, he asked: “Why do we have to go through such meticulous detail through who said what when, when did he change his mind?” He added that it was “interesting” but “pretty pointless”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2 ... s-scandal

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:45 am What's your solution for not letting them be evasive? Who has that responsibility, and how does it work in the current setup of parliament?

And I'm not "upset", it's just weird when someone acts like the conversation is about one thing when it's about something else.

It's not weird when a conversation shifts emphasis, it happens all the time. Or it does if you actually listen to others involved, if you're only listening to yourself banging the same drum, well...

It doesn't work in parliament because the Speaker for a long time rarely holds anyone to account, and even if they try they have little in the way of sanctions. I'd start with questions to the house actually requiring an answer to the question given, so for instance questions about why is the UK government pro rape doesn't allow answers on their failure to waffle on about vaccine rollouts

I don't know what would happen if the Speaker started acting like a vexed Paxman presented with an obfuscating Howard, for many in parliament they expect there's a large part of what transpires is just grandstanding, and then okay lots of serious governance does happen in select committees and the like. If the PM or any cabinet minster, or indeed anyone sent to answer questions refused to actually answer the question asked (without having good cause) I'd find them in contempt. How quickly one moves to expelling them from parliament, jailing them, fining them, how much the shame of being in contempt of itself would correct behaviour I don't know, we've never tried it

I don't remember back beyond Thatcher, and even Thatcher is somewhat hazy when I wasn't paying much attention at age 8, but they've been rejected the premise of the question as far back as I can recall. It's one thing to do that in interview, it does seems an entirely different thing to do so on record in parliament. And having noted many want the sort of behaviour we have in parliament it would be fair to note many MPs on encountering the culture are utterly bewildered about it, whilst also feeling there's nothing they can do to correct the standard

SaintK wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:02 am Nothing to do with me guv! I was only the Health Minister during one of the scandals of our times!!!

Ken Clarke has been criticised by families affected by the infected blood inquiry for displaying “contempt” in his evidence after he showed a reluctance to answer questions.
Lord Clarke, who was a Conservative health minister from 1982 to 1985 and health secretary from 1988 to 1990, appeared to become irritated with the level of detail being examined by the lead counsel, Jenni Richards QC.
At one point, he asked: “Why do we have to go through such meticulous detail through who said what when, when did he change his mind?” He added that it was “interesting” but “pretty pointless”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2 ... s-scandal

I think the most astonishing thing, to me; about this scandal; is that it's taken you this long to have an inquiry !

We, in Ireland, had our inquiry; into this exact scandal, more than twenty years ago !!!

It's a testimony to the insularity of the UK; that no-one looked, at what was obviously, a major story in the English speaking country to the west; with systems, & structures, that were almost identical to those in the UK; & didn't join the dots.

The Lindsay Tribunal was set up in Ireland in 1999 to investigate the infection of haemophiliacs with HIV and Hepatitis C from contaminated blood products supplied by the Blood Transfusion Service Board.

There are about 400 haemophiliacs in Ireland. According to the tribunal a 'minimal figure' of 250 haemophiliacs were infected with HIV or Hepatitis C while receiving treatment from the BTSB before 1985.

....

Most of the blood products used by the BTSB were from local donations. However, some of it came from American suppliers which included blood from prisoners and drug addicts, who had a high risk of infection.

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:27 am

SaintK wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:02 am Nothing to do with me guv! I was only the Health Minister during one of the scandals of our times!!!

Ken Clarke has been criticised by families affected by the infected blood inquiry for displaying “contempt” in his evidence after he showed a reluctance to answer questions.
Lord Clarke, who was a Conservative health minister from 1982 to 1985 and health secretary from 1988 to 1990, appeared to become irritated with the level of detail being examined by the lead counsel, Jenni Richards QC.
At one point, he asked: “Why do we have to go through such meticulous detail through who said what when, when did he change his mind?” He added that it was “interesting” but “pretty pointless”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2 ... s-scandal

I think the most astonishing thing, to me; about this scandal; is that it's taken you this long to have an inquiry !

We, in Ireland, had our inquiry; into this exact scandal, more than twenty years ago !!!

It's a testimony to the insularity of the UK; that no-one looked, at what was obviously, a major story in the English speaking country to the west; with systems, & structures, that were almost identical to those in the UK; & didn't join the dots.

The Lindsay Tribunal was set up in Ireland in 1999 to investigate the infection of haemophiliacs with HIV and Hepatitis C from contaminated blood products supplied by the Blood Transfusion Service Board.

There are about 400 haemophiliacs in Ireland. According to the tribunal a 'minimal figure' of 250 haemophiliacs were infected with HIV or Hepatitis C while receiving treatment from the BTSB before 1985.

....

Most of the blood products used by the BTSB were from local donations. However, some of it came from American suppliers which included blood from prisoners and drug addicts, who had a high risk of infection.

Successive UK government’s reluctance to hold an inquiry until 2017 doesn’t mean that we didn’t know there was a problem with infected blood, or that there was a failure to look at what was happening in Ireland. Campaigners have been asking for a public inquiry for over 30 years, and the UK government provided £42m for compensation payments for people who had been given infected blood in 1990.

It wasn’t until evidence was provided that the NHS were aware of the problems with infected blood in the early 80s, but continued using it until 1985 that the government agreed to the inquiry.

Lobby wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:12 am Successive UK government’s reluctance to hold an inquiry until 2017 doesn’t mean that we didn’t know there was a problem with infected blood, or that there was a failure to look at what was happening in Ireland. Campaigners have been asking for a public inquiry for over 30 years, and the UK government provided £42m for compensation payments for people who had been given infected blood in 1990.

It wasn’t until evidence was provided that the NHS were aware of the problems with infected blood in the early 80s, but continued using it until 1985 that the government agreed to the inquiry.

I recall Private Eye majoring on this scandal in the early 1990's. It was and still is a national scandal.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:16 am

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:45 am What's your solution for not letting them be evasive? Who has that responsibility, and how does it work in the current setup of parliament?

And I'm not "upset", it's just weird when someone acts like the conversation is about one thing when it's about something else.

It's not weird when a conversation shifts emphasis, it happens all the time. Or it does if you actually listen to others involved, if you're only listening to yourself banging the same drum, well...

Look, what actually happened is you quoted someone talking about the PM lying and responded by talking about the PM being evasive, as if that was what they had said. It's not about the conversation switching emphasis, it's about you wanting to talk about him being evasive and pretending that's what people were talking about already, particularly when people being evasive in Parliament isn't uncommon and people outright lying and refusing to correct the record time and again actually is.

It doesn't work in parliament because the Speaker for a long time rarely holds anyone to account, and even if they try they have little in the way of sanctions. I'd start with questions to the house actually requiring an answer to the question given, so for instance questions about why is the UK government pro rape doesn't allow answers on their failure to waffle on about vaccine rollouts

I don't know what would happen if the Speaker started acting like a vexed Paxman presented with an obfuscating Howard, for many in parliament they expect there's a large part of what transpires is just grandstanding, and then okay lots of serious governance does happen in select committees and the like. If the PM or any cabinet minster, or indeed anyone sent to answer questions refused to actually answer the question asked (without having good cause) I'd find them in contempt. How quickly one moves to expelling them from parliament, jailing them, fining them, how much the shame of being in contempt of itself would correct behaviour I don't know, we've never tried it

I don't remember back beyond Thatcher, and even Thatcher is somewhat hazy when I wasn't paying much attention at age 8, but they've been rejected the premise of the question as far back as I can recall. It's one thing to do that in interview, it does seems an entirely different thing to do so on record in parliament. And having noted many want the sort of behaviour we have in parliament it would be fair to note many MPs on encountering the culture are utterly bewildered about it, whilst also feeling there's nothing they can do to correct the standard

I think these are good ideas and we're stuck with an utterly supine Speaker, which is a big problem. I agree that Parliament is largely about grandstanding but it has morphed into something barely fit for purpose at the moment and the grandstanding is fuelling public opinion like never before, but I would be cautious about not allowing people to reject the premise of a question. It's very easy to make the question itself so heavily loaded that forcing an answer is a no-win situation for the person being questioned - a "when did you stop beating your wife" scenario.

We have the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards but the remit does not include lying to the HoC, only certain types of misconduct - mostly involving inappropriate financial gain. Even if it did it would likely be toothless unless it was proven to be linked to actual lawbreaking. It's ripe for being taken advantage of by the like of Johnson who may not be smart but smart enough to know that the detail of your responses is less important than what you can get away with saying or omitting.

The Government takes over Sheffield Forgemasters to keep it going.

Bloody socialists, nationalising everything.

Ther blonde slug can't even open an umbrella on his own

SaintK wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:52 pm Ther blonde slug can't even open an umbrella on his own

He’s just showing his greening credentials through improvised rainwater collection.

Hal Jordan wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:37 pm The Government takes over Sheffield Forgemasters to keep it going.

Bloody socialists, nationalising everything.

That companies history is Tory Governments is highly suspect !

Remember; this was the company that was making the sections for Saddam's supergun; & when they flagged it to the DIT, as a massive breach of the embargos on selling weapons to Iraq they were told to shut up, & send the parts.

Little wonder the Israelis slotted Bull. They knew the Americans, & British Governments would do nothing to stop the gun being assembled.

Interesting to see supply chains onshored re: SF. A brave new world...

https://amp.ft.com/content/f8a48bfd-890 ... ssion=true

Some healthy stuff in our great democracy.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 pm https://amp.ft.com/content/f8a48bfd-890 ... ssion=true

Some healthy stuff in our great democracy.

Behind a paywall!
Is it this one?

The Tories have received a whopping £18 million in donations from donors with property interests in the two years since Boris Johnson became PM, the FT’s Kadhim Shubber, Jim Pickard and Max Harlow reveal. Which could just be 18 million reasons to help explain the government’s contentious planning reforms and the lack of action on the cladding scandal.

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 pm

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 pm https://amp.ft.com/content/f8a48bfd-890 ... ssion=true

Some healthy stuff in our great democracy.

Behind a paywall!
Is it this one?

The Tories have received a whopping £18 million in donations from donors with property interests in the two years since Boris Johnson became PM, the FT’s Kadhim Shubber, Jim Pickard and Max Harlow reveal. Which could just be 18 million reasons to help explain the government’s contentious planning reforms and the lack of action on the cladding scandal.

secretive club for major Conservative donors known as the ‘Advisory Board’ has been holding regular meetings and calls with Johnson & Sunak

- the club includes several members who have given at least £250,000 to the party

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:47 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 pm

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 pm https://amp.ft.com/content/f8a48bfd-890 ... ssion=true

Some healthy stuff in our great democracy.

Behind a paywall!
Is it this one?

The Tories have received a whopping £18 million in donations from donors with property interests in the two years since Boris Johnson became PM, the FT’s Kadhim Shubber, Jim Pickard and Max Harlow reveal. Which could just be 18 million reasons to help explain the government’s contentious planning reforms and the lack of action on the cladding scandal.

secretive club for major Conservative donors known as the ‘Advisory Board’ has been holding regular meetings and calls with Johnson & Sunak

- the club includes several members who have given at least £250,000 to the party

The Tories, "Leveling Up" agenda, is obviously more about leveling up mere multi-millionaires, into billionaires; rather than reducing the amount of poverty in the UK.

The Telegraphs Political Editor calling up Boris Johnsons dad to tell him Mrs Johnson the third is pregnant. Normal.

Jacob Rees-Mogg agrees to be interviewed on LBC about the benefits of learning Latin at school.
Fails to understand some simple Latin phrases presented to him (except for the Eton moto).
Admits his knowledge of Latin is limit to the Dictionary of Quotations

Steve Baker realising his constituency is next door to the one the Tories lost in Chesham and may need some "levelling up"

Boris Johnson faces another backbench rebellion over the Treasury’s spending this autumn, as a high-profile Tory MP hit out at “intolerable” levels of hunger and poverty in his affluent home counties constituency, and urged ministers to abandon plans to cut universal credit.
Steve Baker, a leading Brexiter and MP for Wycombe in Buckinghamshire, called on ministers not to ignore the cost of living crisis faced by people “in real trouble” in constituencies like his who had been “tipped over the edge” financially by the pandemic.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2 ... counties

Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am

Jacob Rees-Mogg agrees to be interviewed on LBC about the benefits of learning Latin at school.
Fails to understand some simple Latin phrases presented to him (except for the Eton moto).
Admits his knowledge of Latin is limit to the Dictionary of Quotations

You ought to have a basic grasp of Latin if you're working at Curry's

sturginho wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:55 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am

Jacob Rees-Mogg agrees to be interviewed on LBC about the benefits of learning Latin at school.
Fails to understand some simple Latin phrases presented to him (except for the Eton moto).
Admits his knowledge of Latin is limit to the Dictionary of Quotations🤦‍♀️

😂

You ought to have a basic grasp of Latin if you're working at Curry's

Lorumes eunt domus. (Which could be customers go home if google is to be believed)

Why hasn't this unelected scumbag been sacked yet?

The health minister who oversaw the award of Covid contracts replaced his mobile phone before it could be searched for information relevant to £85m of deals that are subject to a legal challenge.
Lord Bethell, a health minister, is one of those under scrutiny over the way contracts for PPE and Covid tests were awarded at the height of the pandemic.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... -searched

Another entitled twat! I'm sure he enjoyed his globetrottin our expense.

The president of the UK's upcoming climate change conference is under fire for reportedly travelling to more than 30 countries in seven months.
Several places visited by Alok Sharma were on the Covid red list - but he used an exemption for ministers to avoid quarantine on his return.
The government said face-to-face meetings were "crucial" ahead of COP26 climate summit.
But opposition parties have accused Mr Sharma of hypocrisy.
Wales' First Minister Mark Drakeford called his itinerary - which was all published on government websites - "inexplicable".
He said all government ministers "have to demonstrate that we too mean business" in tackling climate change if they want the public to follow suit - and travelling so often "doesn't advance the cause

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58112621

SaintK wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:58 am Another entitled twat! I'm sure he enjoyed his globetrottin our expense.

The president of the UK's upcoming climate change conference is under fire for reportedly travelling to more than 30 countries in seven months.
Several places visited by Alok Sharma were on the Covid red list - but he used an exemption for ministers to avoid quarantine on his return.
The government said face-to-face meetings were "crucial" ahead of COP26 climate summit.
But opposition parties have accused Mr Sharma of hypocrisy.
Wales' First Minister Mark Drakeford called his itinerary - which was all published on government websites - "inexplicable".
He said all government ministers "have to demonstrate that we too mean business" in tackling climate change if they want the public to follow suit - and travelling so often "doesn't advance the cause

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58112621

Obviously there have to be some exceptions for ministers to do their job, but not only did he travel the world, during a global pandemic, with no quarantine measures (which you could make a case for assuming he is doing his job well), but to top it of he then went on to visit a school and the Prince of Wales (i.e. endangering the unvaccinated and the elderly).

Why do they always have to push their privileges and benfits?

Because that's how they keep them. Forever push at what is an accepted norm until it becomes one, then push harder.

Thank for everything and good riddance

Dido Harding has announced that she is stepping down as chair of NHS Improvement in October, bringing to an end a tenure during which she often hit the headlines for the wrong reasons.
The Tory peer’s resignation comes shortly after she was unsuccessful in a bid to be the next chief executive of NHS England, amid controversy over her potential appointment.

Her pals at Randox who she and Hancock threw £millions at are leaving her an apt legacy

SaintK wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:52 am Thank for everything and good riddance

Dido Harding has announced that she is stepping down as chair of NHS Improvement in October, bringing to an end a tenure during which she often hit the headlines for the wrong reasons.
The Tory peer’s resignation comes shortly after she was unsuccessful in a bid to be the next chief executive of NHS England, amid controversy over her potential appointment.

Her pals at Randox who she and Hancock threw £millions at are leaving her an apt legacy

Yet another success story in her sparkling career! Well she will just have to make do with her role as Non Exec Director/Steward at the Jockey Club and discuss racing at Newmarket with the local MP Nick Hancock.

dpedin wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:50 pm

SaintK wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:52 am Thank for everything and good riddance

Dido Harding has announced that she is stepping down as chair of NHS Improvement in October, bringing to an end a tenure during which she often hit the headlines for the wrong reasons.
The Tory peer’s resignation comes shortly after she was unsuccessful in a bid to be the next chief executive of NHS England, amid controversy over her potential appointment.

Her pals at Randox who she and Hancock threw £millions at are leaving her an apt legacy

Yet another success story in her sparkling career! Well she will just have to make do with her role as Non Exec Director/Steward at the Jockey Club and discuss racing at Newmarket with the local MP Nick Hancock.

At least for a few weeks; until she gets a, "No Show", directorship, or two, from all those grateful companies who benefited from the UK taxpayers largess

Scum these Tories are! Scum!

Brexit, corruption, nepotism, neo-liberalism, lies and more lies.

And yet they’re still caning the opposition in the polls.

Tells you something about how low Labour and the fruitcake Lib Dems have fallen.

I reckon there’ll be a realignment in British politics within 50 years - sooner in England & Wales if the Scots commit economic Seppuku with an independence vote. There’ll only be the Tories and a refreshed Orange Book, economically dry and socially libertarian centrist party.

Matt Hancock, gone but not forgotten!!!!

Many thousands of people may have isolated unnecessarily because a government error meant they were “pinged” by the Covid app for a “close contact” in the prior five days rather than two days, a Whitehall whistleblower has told the Guardian.
As the isolation rules for double vaccinated people were relaxed on Monday, it has emerged that users were never told the app could notify of contact with an infected person as far back as five days before the positive test.
The Whitehall source said that the error had been flagged in a submission to Matt Hancock, the then health secretary, shortly before he resigned at the end of June but it had never been publicly admitted.