Is it worth reading?I barely glanced at it but hes saying zimbo is as bad as paki and that rafiq hasn't faced any"real" racism.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:15 pm
by Rinkals
The Ballance family met Rafiq at the airport to welcome him into the country and the family cottage and vehicle were put at his disposal for the duration of his stay. He regained confidence and returned to the first team.
Something not quite right.
Certainly, if the so-called "banter" reduce Rafiq to tears, then Ballance would rightly be deemed a complete cunt for continuing with it.
It just doesn't seem to fit.
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that calling someone a 'Zimbo' is racist, but I suppose, if he was subjected to the trauma of farm attacks, he might feel that way and respond in kind.
It does look as though he has been hung out to dry, in any case.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:17 pm
by Rinkals
Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:56 pm
Is it worth reading?I barely glanced at it but hes saying zimbo is as bad as paki and that rafiq hasn't faced any"real" racism.
He makes the point that Ballance suffered in Mugabe's farm invasion and might feel being called a Zimbo is an insult.
But no, it offers a little background on Ballance, but it's probably stuff you already know or surmised.
Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:56 pm
Is it worth reading?I barely glanced at it but hes saying zimbo is as bad as paki and that rafiq hasn't faced any"real" racism.
He makes the point that Ballance suffered in Mugabe's farm invasion and might feel being called a Zimbo is an insult.
But no, it offers a little background on Ballance, but it's probably stuff you already know or surmised.
Ballance might very well be scapegoated in all this, but I think it unlikely he would have been that insulted by being called a zimbo
Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:56 pm
Is it worth reading?I barely glanced at it but hes saying zimbo is as bad as paki and that rafiq hasn't faced any"real" racism.
He makes the point that Ballance suffered in Mugabe's farm invasion and might feel being called a Zimbo is an insult.
But no, it offers a little background on Ballance, but it's probably stuff you already know or surmised.
Ballance might very well be scapegoated in all this, but I think it unlikely he would have been that insulted by being called a zimbo
I agree.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:17 am
by OomStruisbaai
South Africa Test Tour to New Zealand Itinerary
1st Test, Feb 17-21, 2022, Hagley Oval, Christchurch
2nd Test, 25 Feb-1 Mar, Basin Reserve, Wellington
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
by Torquemada 1420
Rinkals wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:15 pm
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that calling someone a 'Zimbo' is racist, but I suppose, if he was subjected to the trauma of farm attacks, he might feel that way and respond in kind.
Yup. Bollox. Zimbo was used as a nickname for a couple of (unconnected) white Zimbabwean friends. And even if they had been black, I would not have considered the term racist but given the history of the country, if anyone asked not to be called Zimbo, I would have ceased.
BTW
Great track. Some twonk will be suggesting it be deleted.....
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:52 am
Vaughan's response is particularly cunty I'd say. I think we probably all take as read that he probably said it. He denies it, his word against Rafiq's. Now all media eyes turn to Adil Rashid to corroborate or not, whilst he's out trying to help win a major tournament for his country.
Bloke who's been through the ringer is stringed along further and a great British Asian role model from Yorkshire has to deal with a ton of shit when he'd want to be focussed on winning games.
Corroborated but not by Rashid
Rana Naved-ul-Hasan has corroborated Azeem Rafiq's claim that Michael Vaughan made a racist comment to a group of Asian players - a claim which Vaughan "totally denies".
The former England captain said he was named in Yorkshire's Rafiq report.
Vaughan is alleged to have told a group of Asian players, including Rafiq and Naved: "Too many of you lot, we need to do something about it."
Ex-Pakistan bowler Naved told ESPN he also heard the alleged comment.
Now corroborated by Rashid
“I wanted to concentrate as much as possible on my cricket and to avoid distractions to the detriment of the team but I can confirm Azeem Rafiq’s recollection of Michael Vaughan’s comments to a group of us Asian players.”
Rafiq giving evidence to MPs today. A couple of points below:
Rafiq has been asked about former England and Yorkshire captain Michael Vaughan, whom it is alleged said "there are too many of you lot" to four Asian Yorkshire cricketers.
Vaughan denies the allegation.
“It's important on Michael that we don't make it all about Michael," says Rafiq. "It was a long time ago. He might not remember it because it doesn't mean anything to him."
Rafiq says: "After my Sky interview, I took a phone call from Matthew Hoggard and he said I am sorry if some of the comments made you feel how you described it. I said thank you, really appreciate it.
"I bumped into a friend a few months after and he said 'We didn't realise we had that affect on you, if you said we would have stopped'.
"That is all I wanted, an acceptance and apology.
Given this is Rafiq's attitude it is hard to see how Yorkshire have fucked this up so badly. Pretty much the minimum standard of dignity would have allowed them to move past it.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:53 am
by JM2K6
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:04 am
by SaintK
Nice bunch at Yorkshire
After the stillbirth of his son he says Martyn Moxon “tore a strip” off him. Rafiq says he had never seen him talk to anyone like that before.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:13 pm
by SaintK
So out of all the players at Yorkshire at the time all this took place only Matthew Hoggard has had the bollocks to call Azeem and apologise.
Ballance comes out as complete cunt of a man and Vaughan is in total denial.
Moxon should have been sacked and has now disappeared on "stres" related sick leave........how convenient
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:14 pm
by dpedin
Rafiq's testimony was heart wrenching, he is a good man. As for the bastards at Yorkshire .... they can burn in hell. Cowards.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:39 pm
by Margin__Walker
Found this pretty eye opening
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:59 pm
by Paddington Bear
Never wondered why so many cricketers would suddenly have shaved heads since the last time they were on TV?
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:21 pm
by SaintK
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:39 pm
Found this pretty eye opening
Fuck me! No wonder he was shite playing for England
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:26 pm
by JM2K6
I don't think he was so doped up that he couldn't move his feet, he just had a shit technique for fast full bowling
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:27 pm
by Big D
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:59 pm
Never wondered why so many cricketers would suddenly have shaved heads since the last time they were on TV?
Not just cricketers either. Plenty sports have recreational drugs issues.
Look at rugby, no way the time that Harrision and Co at Bath and Hardie at Edinburgh were caught were the first time they dabbled. And there is no way they are were or are the only ones.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:59 pm
Never wondered why so many cricketers would suddenly have shaved heads since the last time they were on TV?
Not just cricketers either. Plenty sports have recreational drugs issues.
Look at rugby, no way the time that Harrision and Co at Bath and Hardie at Edinburgh were caught were the first time they dabbled. And there is no way they are were or are the only ones.
Absolutely, Bath in particular I think we all know about.
Cricket has the added issue though of it being not impossible to play the sport on a hangover and plenty on the county circuit treat the summer like a stag do.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:59 pm
Never wondered why so many cricketers would suddenly have shaved heads since the last time they were on TV?
Not just cricketers either. Plenty sports have recreational drugs issues.
Look at rugby, no way the time that Harrision and Co at Bath and Hardie at Edinburgh were caught were the first time they dabbled. And there is no way they are were or are the only ones.
Absolutely, Bath in particular I think we all know about.
Cricket has the added issue though of it being not impossible to play the sport on a hangover and plenty on the county circuit treat the summer like a stag do.
I'd say the authorities are less concerned with the Pros on the Bolivian marching powder; than where that can end up; e.g. some kid in the academy, running up a debt with their friendly dealer; & the dealer offering to write off the debt, & bung them a couple of grand; if they bowl three wides in the 5th over, etc, etc etc.
The kid might be naive enough to think it'll stop there; but they'll then be in the lowlifes pocket.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:10 pm
by Paddington Bear
Went to our League AGM last night and one of the items to vote in was the ECB's new anti-discrimination policy. The Chairman decided to open the floor to a wider discussion given the circumstances and it was noteworthy how much revulsion there was towards Rafiq's treatment, League AGMs usually being notoriously reactionary. I genuinely think this could be a moment of major change in the sport.
Also scrapping teas was passed with a 2/3rds majority, sign of the times.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:15 pm
by yermum
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:10 pm
Also scrapping teas was passed with a 2/3rds majority, sign of the times.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:10 pm
Also scrapping teas was passed with a 2/3rds majority, sign of the times.
gone to the fucking dogs I tell you....
It’s sad but the days of wives and Mums spending their weekends making cakes and sandwiches are gone. Vast majority of teas are budget as hell
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:28 pm
by ScarfaceClaw
So I see Hales is now being dragged into it for calling his dog “Kevin”. I’m probably missing something there but I’m not quite sure where the racism angle is with that one. Even Byas being named as making racist comments despite not being at Yorkshire as the same time as Rafiq.
I’m sure he’s had a fairly rough time with how he’s been treated but at some point there has to be care not to blame everything in life on the colour of his skin or ethnic background. Sometimes you can just be shite at your job and be called on it. Sometimes your attitude can be bad and you get a harsh message.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:54 pm
by JM2K6
ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:28 pm
So I see Hales is now being dragged into it for calling his dog “Kevin”. I’m probably missing something there but I’m not quite sure where the racism angle is with that one. Even Byas being named as making racist comments despite not being at Yorkshire as the same time as Rafiq.
Context. "Kevin" was the derogatory nickname given to non-white players, IIRC coined by Gary Ballance, who is good mates with Hales. Hales used it a lot, and ended up calling his dog Kevin. Because it's black, you see.
I’m sure he’s had a fairly rough time with how he’s been treated but at some point there has to be care not to blame everything in life on the colour of his skin or ethnic background. Sometimes you can just be shite at your job and be called on it. Sometimes your attitude can be bad and you get a harsh message.
Sometimes people need to shut the fuck up and listen. You'd do well to do that right now - there's a reason why people called his testimony powerful, devestating, and a watershed moment for English cricket. He is not "blaming everything in life on the colour of his skin", and frankly it makes you sound a complete prick to suggest he is.
ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:28 pm
So I see Hales is now being dragged into it for calling his dog “Kevin”. I’m probably missing something there but I’m not quite sure where the racism angle is with that one. Even Byas being named as making racist comments despite not being at Yorkshire as the same time as Rafiq.
Context. "Kevin" was the derogatory nickname given to non-white players, IIRC coined by Gary Ballance, who is good mates with Hales. Hales used it a lot, and ended up calling his dog Kevin. Because it's black, you see.
I’m sure he’s had a fairly rough time with how he’s been treated but at some point there has to be care not to blame everything in life on the colour of his skin or ethnic background. Sometimes you can just be shite at your job and be called on it. Sometimes your attitude can be bad and you get a harsh message.
Sometimes people need to shut the fuck up and listen. You'd do well to do that right now - there's a reason why people called his testimony powerful, devestating, and a watershed moment for English cricket. He is not "blaming everything in life on the colour of his skin", and frankly it makes you sound a complete prick to suggest he is.
At no point did I suggest that what he has said was made up, misinterpreted or meaningless. What I was saying that given how much he has put up with then there was care needed that he didn’t attribute everything that was happening in life as a result or continuation of that abuse. However, given the take it up to 100% wanker response there’s little value in any sort of nuanced discussion. I’ll leave you to it.
ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:28 pm
So I see Hales is now being dragged into it for calling his dog “Kevin”. I’m probably missing something there but I’m not quite sure where the racism angle is with that one. Even Byas being named as making racist comments despite not being at Yorkshire as the same time as Rafiq.
Context. "Kevin" was the derogatory nickname given to non-white players, IIRC coined by Gary Ballance, who is good mates with Hales. Hales used it a lot, and ended up calling his dog Kevin. Because it's black, you see.
I’m sure he’s had a fairly rough time with how he’s been treated but at some point there has to be care not to blame everything in life on the colour of his skin or ethnic background. Sometimes you can just be shite at your job and be called on it. Sometimes your attitude can be bad and you get a harsh message.
Sometimes people need to shut the fuck up and listen. You'd do well to do that right now - there's a reason why people called his testimony powerful, devestating, and a watershed moment for English cricket. He is not "blaming everything in life on the colour of his skin", and frankly it makes you sound a complete prick to suggest he is.
At no point did I suggest that what he has said was made up, misinterpreted or meaningless. What I was saying that given how much he has put up with then there was care needed that he didn’t attribute everything that was happening in life as a result or continuation of that abuse. However, given the take it up to 100% wanker response there’s little value in any sort of nuanced discussion. I’ll leave you to it.
Nah, you're being a twat if that's your takeaway from all of this. Take the moment for some self reflection ffs.
ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:28 pm
So I see Hales is now being dragged into it for calling his dog “Kevin”. I’m probably missing something there but I’m not quite sure where the racism angle is with that one. Even Byas being named as making racist comments despite not being at Yorkshire as the same time as Rafiq.
Context. "Kevin" was the derogatory nickname given to non-white players, IIRC coined by Gary Ballance, who is good mates with Hales. Hales used it a lot, and ended up calling his dog Kevin. Because it's black, you see.
I’m sure he’s had a fairly rough time with how he’s been treated but at some point there has to be care not to blame everything in life on the colour of his skin or ethnic background. Sometimes you can just be shite at your job and be called on it. Sometimes your attitude can be bad and you get a harsh message.
Sometimes people need to shut the fuck up and listen. You'd do well to do that right now - there's a reason why people called his testimony powerful, devestating, and a watershed moment for English cricket. He is not "blaming everything in life on the colour of his skin", and frankly it makes you sound a complete prick to suggest he is.
At no point did I suggest that what he has said was made up, misinterpreted or meaningless. What I was saying that given how much he has put up with then there was care needed that he didn’t attribute everything that was happening in life as a result or continuation of that abuse. However, given the take it up to 100% wanker response there’s little value in any sort of nuanced discussion. I’ll leave you to it.
You’re so out of line. He didn’t just blame everything on racism. He also blamed the Jews.
This is such a good example of the juxtaposition of assimilation and accommodation of cultural differences;
Tino best saying that the drinking culture in English cricket needs to change as it’s a barrier to black and Asian players.
Leaving aside drinking and elite sport not being great bed fellows these days; should a minority have the right to demand an entire culture change to better match the culture they prefer?
This is such a good example of the juxtaposition of assimilation and accommodation of cultural differences;
Tino best saying that the drinking culture in English cricket needs to change as it’s a barrier to black and Asian players.
Leaving aside drinking and elite sport not being great bed fellows these days; should a minority have the right to demand an entire culture change to better match the culture they prefer?
I imagine that the drinking culture, if so pervasive and prejudicial against those who don't like it, would badly affect plenty of cricketers from whatever background. Is Mark Wood still teetotal? It's disingenuous and harmful to draw lines falsely like this. Besides, if you go for cultural generalisations, the WI are definitely on the boozy side: the greatest ever (Sobers, ironically) was notorious for going out before and during test matches in a big way and they've had just as many dissolute players who don't meet their potential as any other side.
This is such a good example of the juxtaposition of assimilation and accommodation of cultural differences;
Tino best saying that the drinking culture in English cricket needs to change as it’s a barrier to black and Asian players.
Leaving aside drinking and elite sport not being great bed fellows these days; should a minority have the right to demand an entire culture change to better match the culture they prefer?
I imagine that the drinking culture, if so pervasive and prejudicial against those who don't like it, would badly affect plenty of cricketers from whatever background. Is Mark Wood still teetotal? It's disingenuous and harmful to draw lines falsely like this. Besides, if you go for cultural generalisations, the WI are definitely on the boozy side: the greatest ever (Sobers, ironically) was notorious for going out before and during test matches in a big way and they've had just as many dissolute players who don't meet their potential as any other side.
As in tino’s being disingenuous, or me? I’m confused.
This is such a good example of the juxtaposition of assimilation and accommodation of cultural differences;
Tino best saying that the drinking culture in English cricket needs to change as it’s a barrier to black and Asian players.
Leaving aside drinking and elite sport not being great bed fellows these days; should a minority have the right to demand an entire culture change to better match the culture they prefer?
I imagine that the drinking culture, if so pervasive and prejudicial against those who don't like it, would badly affect plenty of cricketers from whatever background. Is Mark Wood still teetotal? It's disingenuous and harmful to draw lines falsely like this. Besides, if you go for cultural generalisations, the WI are definitely on the boozy side: the greatest ever (Sobers, ironically) was notorious for going out before and during test matches in a big way and they've had just as many dissolute players who don't meet their potential as any other side.
As in tino’s being disingenuous, or me? I’m confused.
I imagine that the drinking culture, if so pervasive and prejudicial against those who don't like it, would badly affect plenty of cricketers from whatever background. Is Mark Wood still teetotal? It's disingenuous and harmful to draw lines falsely like this. Besides, if you go for cultural generalisations, the WI are definitely on the boozy side: the greatest ever (Sobers, ironically) was notorious for going out before and during test matches in a big way and they've had just as many dissolute players who don't meet their potential as any other side.
As in tino’s being disingenuous, or me? I’m confused.
Tino
I think he’s being genuine - his opinion isn’t unusual - there are people that advocate all sorts of cultural change to accommodate minorities - the whole trans gender/sex debate is a case in point.
I’m not sure where the balance can be struck on it - it’s a really interesting modern dilema that almost makes me want to consider sociology as a proper subject. Almost.
As in tino’s being disingenuous, or me? I’m confused.
Tino
I think he’s being genuine - his opinion isn’t unusual - there are people that advocate all sorts of cultural change to accommodate minorities - the whole trans gender/sex debate is a case in point.
I’m not sure where the balance can be struck on it - it’s a really interesting modern dilema that almost makes me want to consider sociology as a proper subject. Almost.
It's disingenuous that a drinking culture keeps WI cricketers away as a generality. West Indians do or do not drink alcohol just like your average Brit.
I think he’s being genuine - his opinion isn’t unusual - there are people that advocate all sorts of cultural change to accommodate minorities - the whole trans gender/sex debate is a case in point.
I’m not sure where the balance can be struck on it - it’s a really interesting modern dilema that almost makes me want to consider sociology as a proper subject. Almost.
It's disingenuous that a drinking culture keeps WI cricketers away as a generality. West Indians do or do not drink alcohol just like your average Brit.
Don’t want to get pedantic, but do you really mean disingenuous, as in he’s pretending?
Most of the wokey stuff isn’t disingenuous, I just think it’s overly simplistic and a lot of it is ultimately mistaken, and, from reading the article, I’d put Tino’s views in that camp.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 am
by fishfoodie
The problem is; where you have a drinking culture in a team .... and one group within the team; has religious proscription, against drinking !
This is where you get scumbags; forcing a Muslim child; to drink wine; in the name of Teamwork !
Would it be okay; to force an orthodox Jewish member of the team,; to eat a bacon sarnie; to be part of the team ?
I think he’s being genuine - his opinion isn’t unusual - there are people that advocate all sorts of cultural change to accommodate minorities - the whole trans gender/sex debate is a case in point.
I’m not sure where the balance can be struck on it - it’s a really interesting modern dilema that almost makes me want to consider sociology as a proper subject. Almost.
It's disingenuous that a drinking culture keeps WI cricketers away as a generality. West Indians do or do not drink alcohol just like your average Brit.
Don’t want to get pedantic, but do you really mean disingenuous, as in he’s pretending?
Most of the wokey stuff isn’t disingenuous, I just think it’s overly simplistic and a lot of it is ultimately mistaken, and, from reading the article, I’d put Tino’s views in that camp.
Fair enough, my bad use of language. I reckon Tino's wrong.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:04 am
by Woddy
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 am
The problem is; where you have a drinking culture in a team .... and one group within the team; has religious proscription, against drinking !
This is where you get scumbags; forcing a Muslim child; to drink wine; in the name of Teamwork !
Would it be okay; to force an orthodox Jewish member of the team,; to eat a bacon sarnie; to be part of the team ?
Both of those would be terrible. Forcing people to do anything against their will is bad.
Re: The Official Cricket Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:36 am
by Gumboot
Yet another Aussie captain resigns in tears...
Australian test cricket captain Tim Paine quits after being caught in 'sexting' scandal
Tim Paine has stood down as captain of the Australian test cricket team, after being embroiled in a 'sexting' scandal with a former female co-worker.
According to Herald Sun, Paine sent a Cricket Tasmania employee a “dick pic” and a series of sordid messages on the eve of the 2017 Ashes series.
The woman claimed she was offended by "Mr Paine's sexually explicit, unwelcome and unsolicited photograph of his genitals in addition to the graphic sexual comments".
"I'm announcing my decision to stand down as the captain of the Australian men's test team," Paine told a media conference in the Tasmanian capital of Hobart on Friday.
"It's an incredibly difficult decision, but the right one for me, my family, and cricket.
"On reflection, my actions in 2017 do not meet the standard of an Australian cricket captain, or the wider community."
