NPR

It was talked about a lot at the start of all this, but I think the media are going to have a lot to answer for after it all gets back to normal.

Weeks of complaining and castigating the government about further lockdowns, then today "Government warned weeks ago to lockdown"

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:14 pm It was talked about a lot at the start of all this, but I think the media are going to have a lot to answer for after it all gets back to normal.

Weeks of complaining and castigating the government about further lockdowns, then today "Government warned weeks ago to lockdown"

In fairness to the broadcast media the Covid Ofcom regulation is pretty strict on what they can and can’t present.

For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

I buy a phone to be a phone, not a personal dictator in my pocket.
Two weeks ago I bought one for a fiver.

Ronseal.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

Well the algorithm (if you can trust it) calculates proximity and time spent in proximity before coming up with a score, unlikely you would go over the threshold if you encounter someone in Tesco....but if reports are to be believed, only 1 alert has been sent out via the app anyway.

.OverThere wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:00 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

I buy a phone to be a phone, not a personal dictator in my pocket.
Two weeks ago I bought one for a fiver.

Ronseal.

Fair play. I like to be able to watch porn on the train though.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:20 pm

.OverThere wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:00 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

I buy a phone to be a phone, not a personal dictator in my pocket.
Two weeks ago I bought one for a fiver.

Ronseal.

Fair play. I like to be able to watch porn on the train though.

The app will only notice if you’re watching stuff that isn’t mask fetish porn.

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

Well the algorithm (if you can trust it) calculates proximity and time spent in proximity before coming up with a score, unlikely you would go over the threshold if you encounter someone in Tesco....but if reports are to be believed, only 1 alert has been sent out via the app anyway.

Nope - plenty of alerts have been sent out. Reports are that only 1 alert has been sent out for a venue outbreak - so where you've checked into a venue using the T&T QR code and there's subsequently been an outbreak linked to that venue that day. Given that a lot of venues still don;t have T&T QR codes, I don't actually find that surprising.

As for isolating - a positive alert on the T&T app doesn't require you to isolate - it gives you a heads up that you may have come into contact with someone and to keep an eye out for symptoms, updates you on social distancing, and reminds you to get a test ASAP if you do become symptomatic.

Whether these apps REALLY work is open for debate - we been round the houses on here ad nauseum the accuracy of Bluetooth beaconing - but I'm damned sure that I won't be the reason for them not working, and I would hope that other people would be of a similar mindset

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:41 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:20 pm

.OverThere wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:00 pm

I buy a phone to be a phone, not a personal dictator in my pocket.
Two weeks ago I bought one for a fiver.

Ronseal.

Fair play. I like to be able to watch porn on the train though.

The app will only notice if you’re watching stuff that isn’t mask fetish porn.

Do ball gags count?

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Whether these apps REALLY work is open for debate - we been round the houses on here ad nauseum the accuracy of Bluetooth beaconing - but I'm damned sure that I won't be the reason for them not working, and I would hope that other people would be of a similar mindset

How does the App work? I went to a busyish restaurant on Friday and turned on my App. It started scanning, but found nothing.

Does that mean I'm the only one who has it? Or it was just scanning for UFO transmissions from Pluto?

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:45 pm

Do ball gags count?

Mouth and nose coverage please. Better go for the full gimp mask to be safe and sexy.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:51 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Whether these apps REALLY work is open for debate - we been round the houses on here ad nauseum the accuracy of Bluetooth beaconing - but I'm damned sure that I won't be the reason for them not working, and I would hope that other people would be of a similar mindset

How does the App work? I went to a busyish restaurant on Friday and turned on my App. It started scanning, but found nothing.

Does that mean I'm the only one who has it? Or it was just scanning for UFO transmissions from Pluto?

Expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night and the fitting of an anal probe

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:06 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:51 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Whether these apps REALLY work is open for debate - we been round the houses on here ad nauseum the accuracy of Bluetooth beaconing - but I'm damned sure that I won't be the reason for them not working, and I would hope that other people would be of a similar mindset

How does the App work? I went to a busyish restaurant on Friday and turned on my App. It started scanning, but found nothing.

Does that mean I'm the only one who has it? Or it was just scanning for UFO transmissions from Pluto?

Expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night and the fitting of an anal probe

*Leaves back door open....*

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:06 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:51 pm

How does the App work? I went to a busyish restaurant on Friday and turned on my App. It started scanning, but found nothing.

Does that mean I'm the only one who has it? Or it was just scanning for UFO transmissions from Pluto?

Expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night and the fitting of an anal probe

*Leaves back door open....*

Knock Knock.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:06 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:51 pm

How does the App work? I went to a busyish restaurant on Friday and turned on my App. It started scanning, but found nothing.

Does that mean I'm the only one who has it? Or it was just scanning for UFO transmissions from Pluto?

Expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night and the fitting of an anal probe

*Leaves back door open....*

so to speak

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:51 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Whether these apps REALLY work is open for debate - we been round the houses on here ad nauseum the accuracy of Bluetooth beaconing - but I'm damned sure that I won't be the reason for them not working, and I would hope that other people would be of a similar mindset

How does the App work? I went to a busyish restaurant on Friday and turned on my App. It started scanning, but found nothing.

Does that mean I'm the only one who has it? Or it was just scanning for UFO transmissions from Pluto?

It won't actively report on whether any other users nearby have the app switched on - it's simply telling you that it's working and scanning. This becomes more obvious (and important to you) if you have multiple apps (i.e. you're moving between different countries), as only one app can be scanning at a time. So when I went to Venice I disabled HS and enabled Immuni. On landing back at Heathrow I disabled Immuni and re-enabled NHS. I'll uninstall Immuni in a week or so once any realistic chance of me needing to be notified of coming into contact with an Italian who's tested positive has finished.

Behind the scenes, the way the API works if I;ve understood the documentation correctly is that each phone generates a random identifier when the app is installed. That is shared with other devices once a threshold of Bluetooth strength vs time is met with a nearby device. The phone individually stores those records. At the same time the phone also stores the record of venue QR checkins.

if you enter a positive test result into the app, it then effectively broadcast that test result to the ids it's collected, and the QR record of date/time as a general broadcast. Other devices then either pick up the direct broadcast of their device id, and/or check their QR history. Any time there's a positive match it alerts that you MAY have been in contact. At an individual level, you can;t be identified, and because it's not being collated centrally you can;t be tracked either. The only way they know much about the positive reporting on the QR code stuff is the it;s a general broadcast - so the can see how many alerts are related to a QR code - but even then they don't know who

Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:49 pm Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

Well they are gonna lose a bit now i suspect.

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:52 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:49 pm Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

Well they are gonna lose a bit now i suspect.

Anecdotal I know but my mother who was a type 2 diabetic and insulin dependent had a serious stroke, she was fed by tube for 6 weeks. At the end of that she was 2 stone lighter and for the first time in 20 years not insulin dependent.

If it is now Labour policy to have a complete shutdown for 2-3 weeks why isn’t the Welsh Labour government doing that ?

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:55 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:36 am



Test and trace is difficult?

Obviously so given its total ineffectiveness thus far.

The more pertinant question to ask is why people do not want to download it? Is it because the government has a track record of failure in this space? A complete lack in the government not using the data for purposes other than for whhich it has been collected? i am sure there are many more.

I myself will not download it for the reasons listed above.

I was prepared to download it but couldn’t. My iPhone 6 still gets the security updates but obviously not some of the functionality ones. No idea what the Android position is but it’s clear the app will only work for the most up to date of iOS users.

And now we understand Apple and Google’s generosity in providing the App.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 pm And now we understand Apple and Google’s generosity in providing the App.

Cynical = Yes. Possible = Mebees.

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:34 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 pm And now we understand Apple and Google’s generosity in providing the App.

Cynical = Yes. Possible = Mebees.

If the government make the app compulsory then we will know for sure,

The main reason it only works on more modern operating system releases is because it needs Bluetooth LE. Although the standard has been around for around 10 years or so, it's not been part of the HW Chipset in most smartphones until the last 5 years (and still isn't in some cases). So, let's say that Apple added the functionality to a version of IOS that runs on an iPhone 6 - you could then measure the battery life of that phone in minutes, or maybe a small number of hours. And then everyone would be complaining about the battery life drain killing their phones..........

Quite. The iPhone 6 is ancient.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:49 pm Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

So what is one tory ministers solution?

Ignore generations of Cornish miners by stating a Cornish pasty is not a substantial meal, and suggesting chips should be added.

It may well be that the iphone 6 is ancient and that the bluetooth requirement for the app will batter the older phones, but most over fifty year olds, ie the age group where we start to see vulnerability, don't give a monkey's about the latest and greatest gaming-level phones, they want a phone, and perhaps a working internet connection.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:35 pm Quite. The iPhone 6 is ancient.

Still using my 5s purchased new in 2015. Waste not, want not. That's what I always say.

So 50% of icu beds in my area are now filled with covid patients and it looks like in about a week we will have more beds filled with covid patients than in the first wave.
It's a real nightmare on the ground here.

something something fearmongering something something...

stay strong buddy.

C69 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:00 am So 50% of icu beds in my area are now filled with covid patients and it looks like in about a week we will have more beds filled with covid patients than in the first wave.
It's a real nightmare on the ground here.

The (possibly false) hope I have is you guys can treat it better and deaths won't be in the numbers we had before. Yes?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:24 pm It may well be that the iphone 6 is ancient and that the bluetooth requirement for the app will batter the older phones, but most over fifty year olds, ie the age group where we start to see vulnerability, don't give a monkey's about the latest and greatest gaming-level phones, they want a phone, and perhaps a working internet connection.

That's a circle that can't be squared then. The reliance on Bluetooth for this is dodgy enough, but there's no other way a smartphone app could be capable of handling this. Criticising an app for not being capable of being run on a device that doesn't have the necessary hardware seems to me to be a bit thick

Have just been looking at the uk stats on the worldo site.

I’d have thought the deaths to peak several weeks after the peak of the daily cases. But looking at first peak that doesn’t se to be the case.

Peak of both is around mid April. Why is that? Ie assuming it takes a few weeks from a case being detected to someone dying.

Were many of those detections back then of people only as they were carted to hospital in a critical condition?

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:06 am Have just been looking at the uk stats on the worldo site.

I’d have thought the deaths to peak several weeks after the peak of the daily cases. But looking at first peak that doesn’t se to be the case.

Peak of both is around mid April. Why is that? Ie assuming it takes a few weeks from a case being detected to someone dying.

Were many of those detections back then of people only as they were carted to hospital in a critical condition?

The statistics are mainly due to a lack of mass testing in April.

.OverThere wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:22 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:49 pm Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

So what is one tory ministers solution?

Ignore generations of Cornish miners by stating a Cornish pasty is not a substantial meal, and suggesting chips should be added.

The 'substantial meal' debacle is a little bit of a red herring - pubs know what this means as this is already a legal concept around 16/17 year olds being served in a pub.

Grifter see’s grifters.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:24 pm It may well be that the iphone 6 is ancient and that the bluetooth requirement for the app will batter the older phones, but most over fifty year olds, ie the age group where we start to see vulnerability, don't give a monkey's about the latest and greatest gaming-level phones, they want a phone, and perhaps a working internet connection.

Which is why I still have a Nokia 2330!