NPR

Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:26 am It sounds like Panesar is frustrated Vaughan has been convicted with no trial, slating BBC.

It's 3 player's (including a current Yorkshire and England player)word against Vaughan's. Not sure that Panesar is qualified to say what did or did not happen. Especially as he is now a Daily Telegraph columnist as of course is Vaughan!!!

Pakistan Vernon Philander

Kiwias wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:08 am Not a bad move to leave Santner out and use Ravindra instead.

Santner may have done better - we'll never know

Enzedder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:32 pm

Kiwias wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:08 am Not a bad move to leave Santner out and use Ravindra instead.

Santner may have done better - we'll never know

He has form with the bat too.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:15 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:32 pm

Kiwias wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:08 am Not a bad move to leave Santner out and use Ravindra instead.

Santner may have done better - we'll never know

He has form with the bat too.

Does he? Scored a nice ton against England in NZ a few years ago, but since then has averaged 11

Yorkshire have canned pretty much the entire coaching setup - I was expecting a few heads to roll, but not quite this scale.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/mart ... ff-1292123

Thankfully for this

Jay Shah: India to tour SA for three Tests, three ODIs; T20Is to be played later https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/bcci ... er-1292188

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:48 am

There's just something so captivating about gutlords pulling great catches out of the bag.

I saw lots of suggestions over the weekend that Rafiq has been a total plum for years, anyone know what the plumness is referring to in particular?

No idea. So far the muck-racking has dug up the jewish comments, and him sexting some teenager, as far as I know. How much does it matter?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:21 pm I saw lots of suggestions over the weekend that Rafiq has been a total plum for years, anyone know what the plumness is referring to in particular?

Think he got himself into trouble with some gambling problems - which I believe Yorkshire Cricket either helped pay off or helped sort him out. But this is now being spun as Yorkshire was actually being good and decent and that bad gambling and hard drinking Rafiq kinda deserved what happened to him cause he isn't a perfect human.

It is a typical Daily Mail optic.

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:33 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:21 pm I saw lots of suggestions over the weekend that Rafiq has been a total plum for years, anyone know what the plumness is referring to in particular?

Think he got himself into trouble with some gambling problems - which I believe Yorkshire Cricket either helped pay off or helped sort him out. But this is now being spun as Yorkshire was actually being good and decent and that bad gambling and hard drinking Rafiq kinda deserved what happened to him cause he isn't a perfect human.

It is a typical Daily Mail optic.

Ahh, OK, thanks, honestly had no idea what it was referencing.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:31 pm No idea. So far the muck-racking has dug up the jewish comments, and him sexting some teenager, as far as I know. How much does it matter?

dunno, how much does anti-Semitism and sexting a 16 year old matter?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:47 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:31 pm No idea. So far the muck-racking has dug up the jewish comments, and him sexting some teenager, as far as I know. How much does it matter?

dunno, how much does anti-Semitism and sexting a 16 year old matter?

It matters to the people affected by it, and it will impact any opinion you might form of Rafiq, and rightly so. But then, people only know who Rafiq is because of him exposing the rot at the heart of English cricket. It's a time-honoured tactic to smear the whistleblower.

As I said after you found out about the anti-semitic comments:

It is worth mentioning that the problem he exposed was that of institutional racism aimed at pretty much anyone non-white, and a cover-up assisted by the ECB who were more than happy to let Yorkshire investigate themselves and bury it as much as possible. Rafiq could well be a total arse, but what he's exposed is far bigger than him.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:50 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:47 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:31 pm No idea. So far the muck-racking has dug up the jewish comments, and him sexting some teenager, as far as I know. How much does it matter?

dunno, how much does anti-Semitism and sexting a 16 year old matter?

It matters to the people affected by it, and it will impact any opinion you might form of Rafiq, and rightly so. But then, people only know who Rafiq is because of him exposing the rot at the heart of English cricket. It's a time-honoured tactic to smear the whistleblower.

As I said after you found out about the anti-semitic comments:

It is worth mentioning that the problem he exposed was that of institutional racism aimed at pretty much anyone non-white, and a cover-up assisted by the ECB who were more than happy to let Yorkshire investigate themselves and bury it as much as possible. Rafiq could well be a total arse, but what he's exposed is far bigger than him.

I'm not for a second conflating it with the Yorkshire issue. Bit surprised you would think that his own brand of shityness only matters to the people affected by it and can be described as just a smear tactic though.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:10 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:50 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:47 pm

dunno, how much does anti-Semitism and sexting a 16 year old matter?

It matters to the people affected by it, and it will impact any opinion you might form of Rafiq, and rightly so. But then, people only know who Rafiq is because of him exposing the rot at the heart of English cricket. It's a time-honoured tactic to smear the whistleblower.

As I said after you found out about the anti-semitic comments:

It is worth mentioning that the problem he exposed was that of institutional racism aimed at pretty much anyone non-white, and a cover-up assisted by the ECB who were more than happy to let Yorkshire investigate themselves and bury it as much as possible. Rafiq could well be a total arse, but what he's exposed is far bigger than him.

I'm not for a second conflating it with the Yorkshire issue. Bit surprised you would think that his own brand of shityness only matters to the people affected by it and can be described as just a smear tactic though.

His own brand of shittiness does indeed only matter to the people affected by it. And it's undeniably a smear tactic to dig up and publish every bit of dirt on the whistleblower. None of that excuses his behaviour. But the question is, why do you care about whether Rafiq is a good person or not? What will it change for you, particularly if you believe it has nothing to do with the Yorkshire issue?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:12 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:10 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:50 pm

It matters to the people affected by it, and it will impact any opinion you might form of Rafiq, and rightly so. But then, people only know who Rafiq is because of him exposing the rot at the heart of English cricket. It's a time-honoured tactic to smear the whistleblower.

As I said after you found out about the anti-semitic comments:

I'm not for a second conflating it with the Yorkshire issue. Bit surprised you would think that his own brand of shityness only matters to the people affected by it and can be described as just a smear tactic though.

His own brand of shittiness does indeed only matter to the people affected by it. And it's undeniably a smear tactic to dig up and publish every bit of dirt on the whistleblower. None of that excuses his behaviour. But the question is, why do you care about whether Rafiq is a good person or not? What will it change for you, particularly if you believe it has nothing to do with the Yorkshire issue?

So racism, for instance, isn't a societal issue, just one for the people affected by it?

I've said twice now that it doesn't change anything for me about the Yorkshire issue. As you say, I knew nothing about him a few weeks ago and was disgusted about what has happened at Yorkshire, I now know more about him and am still disgusted by what happened at Yorkshire. I also think he sounds like a bit of an anti-Semitic sexual harasser and was surprised that this doesn't seem to bother you as much as it might in other cases.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:21 pm I saw lots of suggestions over the weekend that Rafiq has been a total plum for years, anyone know what the plumness is referring to in particular?

Shitty attitude, considered to be fairly selfish, generally average bloke to be around a changing room with seems to be the consensus of those that don't like him. Some of the comments he made about him vs. Kane Williamson and how he would have had an England career (very, very dubious) are a bit of a window into it.

Doesn't change the seriousness of what he's uncovered at Yorkshire of course, and in fairness to him I think it has informed his position that he's not looking for a witch hunt.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:26 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:12 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:10 pm

I'm not for a second conflating it with the Yorkshire issue. Bit surprised you would think that his own brand of shityness only matters to the people affected by it and can be described as just a smear tactic though.

His own brand of shittiness does indeed only matter to the people affected by it. And it's undeniably a smear tactic to dig up and publish every bit of dirt on the whistleblower. None of that excuses his behaviour. But the question is, why do you care about whether Rafiq is a good person or not? What will it change for you, particularly if you believe it has nothing to do with the Yorkshire issue?

So racism, for instance, isn't a societal issue, just one for the people affected by it?

I've said twice now that it doesn't change anything for me about the Yorkshire issue. As you say, I knew nothing about him a few weeks ago and was disgusted about what has happened at Yorkshire, I now know more about him and am still disgusted by what happened at Yorkshire. I also think he sounds like a bit of an anti-Semitic sexual harasser and was surprised that this doesn't seem to bother you as much as it might in other cases.

You have no idea how much it bothers me.

Some random bloke being racist to some other bloke matters to the people affected by it - directly or indirectly. I never said racism wasn't a societal issue, but it'd be a gigantic stretch to claim that Rafiq's anti-semitic remarks and sexting of a teenager are a societal issue rather than, well, him being a bit of a dickhead. He's one bloke. One neither of us knew before all this kicked off.

Edit: To put it another way - what is the wider importance of Rafiq's behaviour? Why is it of interest to us? Outside of being a whistleblower on Yorkshire's institutional racism (and the ECB's culpability), why does Rafiq matter to you or me? Outside of the Yorkshire issue, he's just another shitty bloke.

Ok, I’ll say the bleeding obvious (because I haven’t read social media responses on this), and let’s hear it.

His whistle blowing was about his experience of racism and how it affected him personally, in a very emotional plea. So it kind of makes it hypocritical and a far less powerful message based on his nasty anti-Semitic comments he casually made.

And I guess that him claiming he’s changed from saying it, and it was a long time ago also smacks of irony.

But I’m sure there is some ingrained lefty responses to this on other social media which I’m sure i will hear shortly ..

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:13 pm Ok, I’ll say the bleeding obvious (because I haven’t read social media responses on this), and let’s hear it.

His whistle blowing was about his experience of racism and how it affected him personally, in a very emotional plea. So it kind of makes it hypocritical and a far less powerful message based on his nasty anti-Semitic comments he casually made.

And I guess that him claiming he’s changed from saying it, and it was a long time ago also smacks of irony.

But I’m sure there is some ingrained lefty responses to this on other social media which I’m sure i will hear shortly ..

You think the message that the institutional racism which infects, or infected, English cricket and affected scores of non white cricketers is a bad thing, is now diminish because one of the people who was affected by it made an anti-Semitic tweet. I think that says a lot about you.

Nope. Didn’t say that.

I think it says less about his powerful emotional testimony, due to his own casual racism.

So you have less sympathy for him receiving racist treatment because you think he is also racist? And you think he was insincere in his testimony on how the racism affected him because you think he is also a racist?

Yourmother's parody of a dumb shit who can only see things through the prism of left & right and the insane culture war is pretty good

No Ashes highlights on UK terrestrial then?

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:13 pm Ok, I’ll say the bleeding obvious (because I haven’t read social media responses on this), and let’s hear it.

His whistle blowing was about his experience of racism and how it affected him personally, in a very emotional plea. So it kind of makes it hypocritical and a far less powerful message based on his nasty anti-Semitic comments he casually made.

And I guess that him claiming he’s changed from saying it, and it was a long time ago also smacks of irony.

But I’m sure there is some ingrained lefty responses to this on other social media which I’m sure i will hear shortly ..

Well I guess it shows that racist attitudes aren't the exclusive preserve of one community or another, but that just makes it more insidious and divisive. It doesn't change the fact that Yorkshire and wider cricket community need to root it out.

FFS. JM is absolutely correct.

Rafiq is obviously a bit of a dislikeable c**t but his personal actions only affected those he directed them at......... because they were personal actions.

What Rafiq has exposed (and his motivations are utterly irrelevant: this is not a personal injury court case....... or a bit of it might be ^^^ but is a sideshow) is an institutional rot. It's a far, far bigger deal. The fact that we are even arguing this shows how effective the distraction tactics are proving.

Prembore wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:58 pm It doesn't change the fact that Yorkshire and wider cricket community need to root it out.

I see what you did there.

I think it's hard for anyone involved in cricket not to acknowledge that Rafiq has raised some very serious issues with more than a ring of truth to them. Yorkshire has struck me throughout as particularly egregious but the general tone ('attitude' used to pick white players, 'you lot', calling Asian players English names etc) is pretty recognisable. Should have changed years ago and often hasn't.

My hope is that he's actually listened to and this results in positive change going forward rather than a deep dive into people's pasts. Cricket accomplishes nothing tearing itself apart, get this right and it could be a genuinely great tool for integration.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:01 am

That'll teach him to run on the pitch!

Poor Ajaz Patel

10 wickets in an innings - next series he cannot even make the squad. NZ greentops and spinners do not mix

Sorry to see Ray Illingworth go the way he did.

Toss up for me whether he or Brearley was Eng's best ever captain. Won the Ashes in Aus back in the days when winning in Aus or NZ meant defeating bent umpiring too.

Ngidi bowling well. He must be sitting at well over 100 kg though. Not great on the joints as a fast bowler. He's obviously had a great Dezemba.

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:59 am Ngidi bowling well. He must be sitting at well over 100 kg though. Not great on the joints as a fast bowler. He's obviously had a great Dezemba.

and you to.

Thank you Rossco. At times you infuriated me but generally I was glad that you were in the team

Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:23 am Thank you Rossco. At times you infuriated me but generally I was glad that you were in the team

An awesome player and beautiful to watch at his best.

He has been a mainstay of the team. I would love to see him notch a 20th test century.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:23 am Thank you Rossco. At times you infuriated me but generally I was glad that you were in the team

I do recall being frustrated - mostly due to his run rate not seemingly reflect the state of a match. And the run outs.
But he was a class player. Played through quite an era of change for the team.