NPR

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:45 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am That is all total and utter bollocks.

You might have a point if Erasmus had said in a press conference that he was unhappy with some of the calls so he's keen to communicate and learn from the team of officials as they're going to be the same for all three tests. But he didn't do that. He made an hour long video implying they were either bent, incompetent, arrogant, stupid and/or all of the above.

He's an idiot.

He did say that in the post match press conference.
He also posted this right after the test:



Then he submitted the formal request to World Rugby for the Referee report on Sunday.
They blew him off, and that's when the circus started.

I only became aware of this sequence of events after watching the video he uploaded.
Before watching it, it thought it was just a tactic to divert media attention from the team.
I don't think that anymore. I honestly think they just want to prepare for the second test as best they can, and want to understand the rulings that went against them so they can adjust.
If they can't do it via the proper channels and the issues they raised with the officials before the match (as is the norm) were ignored on the field, what other options do they have?

Maybe WR should do an hour long video pointing out where South Africa didn't get penalised then post it on social media. That seems like a really grown up way to do things.

Have you watched the video, Kawazaki?

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:48 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:22 am WR should have sent a team of 5/6 officials who could all run the game if necessary, and one should be TMO. Not beyond the wit of man.

As ever, the test for Rassie's defenders should be 'how would I react if England had done this?'. I suspect not in the manner they are.

Agree 100%. There were a host of organisation blunders for this tour.
What would have happened if any of the officals actually got covid?
It was also a mistake to move the teams around between Johannesburg, Pretoria and Cape Town in retrospect.
Should have selected a single base of operations for both teams from the start IMO.

It's been a difficult tour for all involved. I was really looking forward to it but, like the Olympics, it is a very challenging time to try and host an event like this in times like these.

Pity we are going to have to wait 12 more years for another attempt.

Oh thanks for that, I’ll be eighty bloody three by then if I’m spared.

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:45 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am That is all total and utter bollocks.

You might have a point if Erasmus had said in a press conference that he was unhappy with some of the calls so he's keen to communicate and learn from the team of officials as they're going to be the same for all three tests. But he didn't do that. He made an hour long video implying they were either bent, incompetent, arrogant, stupid and/or all of the above.

He's an idiot.

He did say that in the post match press conference.
He also posted this right after the test:



Then he submitted the formal request to World Rugby for the Referee report on Sunday.
They blew him off, and that's when the circus started.

I only became aware of this sequence of events after watching the video he uploaded.
Before watching it, it thought it was just a tactic to divert media attention from the team.
I don't think that anymore. I honestly think they just want to prepare for the second test as best they can, and want to understand the rulings that went against them so they can adjust.
If they can't do it via the proper channels and the issues they raised with the officials before the match (as is the norm) were ignored on the field, what other options do they have?

Get a ref in to explain things to them like every major side does on a regular basis

But let's be painfully clear here: he's not looking to "understand" the rulings. He simply wants to complain that they were wrong. That's what this whole circus is about.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 am Have you watched the video, Kawazaki?

I watched nearly 20mins of it from about 35minutes in.

He looks like he's had a few drinks.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:51 am Maybe WR should do an hour long video pointing out where South Africa didn't get penalised then post it on social media. That seems like a really grown up way to do things.

Rassie admitted in the video that the Lions could probably do something similar to what he was doing and that his goal was not to imply that all the calls went against the Boks.
He wanted clarity on why some did, especially the ones related to player safety (Kolbe, Le Roux), some off the ball stuff, and Siya Kolisi not getting the same treatment from the officials that AWJ was getting.

Legitimate queries that could easily have been addressed in the referee report if WR could have been bothered to expedite the process light of there only being a Tuesday and Thursday training session before the next test with the same officials to correct things.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:57 am I watched nearly 20mins of it from about 35minutes in.

He looks like he's had a few drinks.

The opening 10 minutes are very important as it gives lots of context and back story.

He doesn't look well at all. Bloated and exhausted.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:01 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:57 am I watched nearly 20mins of it from about 35minutes in.

He looks like he's had a few drinks.

The opening 10 minutes are very important as it gives lots of context and back story.

He doesn't look well at all. Bloated and exhausted.

In the opening 10 minutes did he say that what is about to follow is a wholly unrepresentative and subjective rant about referees simply because his team lost?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:56 am Get a ref in to explain things to them like every major side does on a regular basis

But let's be painfully clear here: he's not looking to "understand" the rulings. He simply wants to complain that they were wrong. That's what this whole circus is about.

They often do, but the WR Referee Assessment report of a referee's last performance is also a valuable tool that forms part of the preparation for a match.
It is where referee error is admitted and corrective action is recommended.

Even if an independent referee advises the Boks that the on-field decision was incorrect, without feedback from WR or the official on the day admitting that, there is no reason to assume it will be a focus area for the official in the next match. If the referees are going to allow players to fly off their feet at rucks, then we select other players to when a referee is likely to allow for 2 extra seconds of competing for the ball on the ground. If the player in a better position jumping for a high ball is not going to be given the benefit, then maybe you prepare by not contesting in the air and rather timing a tackle and going for the counter-ruck.

And if you really want to get cynical, if tip-tackles are allowed as long as the ball carrier braces with their arm risking a shoulder injury, then maybe we should train players to resist the urge to brace so we can milk the yellow/red card?

None of that will come from just asking Andre Watson for his opinion of the Berry's performance...especially if Berry is going to be running as AR in the next match and hasn't given his errors from the previous week have not been formally reviewed yet.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:05 am In the opening 10 minutes did he say that what is about to follow is a wholly unrepresentative and subjective rant about referees simply because his team lost?

Ffs. Watch the first 10 minutes and answer it for yourself.

I wonder if Rassie Erasmus and his acolytes in here have ever heard of a logical fallacy called confirmation bias?

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:51 am Maybe WR should do an hour long video pointing out where South Africa didn't get penalised then post it on social media. That seems like a really grown up way to do things.

Rassie admitted in the video that the Lions could probably do something similar to what he was doing and that his goal was not to imply that all the calls went against the Boks.
He wanted clarity on why some did, especially the ones related to player safety (Kolbe, Le Roux), some off the ball stuff, and Siya Kolisi not getting the same treatment from the officials that AWJ was getting.

Legitimate queries that could easily have been addressed in the referee report if WR could have been bothered to expedite the process light of there only being a Tuesday and Thursday training session before the next test with the same officials to correct things.

Failed with that then!

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:38 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:21 am They manage to do it remotely in Premier league soccer albeit within the same country.
You appear to be an expert, perhaps you could explain the technical issues involved.

I've watched a couple of matches in pubs or friends' houses around stadiums when I couldn't get tickets, but still wanted to be part of the pre-match and post-match vibes.
There was a decent 10-15 second delay between the broadcast and the live action.

I don't know the all the technicalities involved myself, but I know the on-site TMO gets his feed from the production truck itself before getting broadcast.
If technology has improved then so be it, but having a 10-15s delay each time the TMO or ref needs a new angle or are trying to have a conversation about the ruling seems incredibly painful way to do it.

The delay is put in on purpose so they can screen output. Heck, I can get an underwater ROV feed from a drilling rig on the other side of the world with a latency better than 3 seconds.

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:44 pm The definitive thread.

Worst. Friday. Afternoon. OP. Ever. Still no teams info on display.

Anyone seen ASMO....?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:51 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:44 pm The definitive thread.

Worst. Friday. Afternoon. OP. Ever. Still no teams info on display.

Anyone seen ASMO....?

Prolly prepping the Rassie rebuttal.

Eish.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:00 am I don't think it's a total attack on the referee, rather the match officials.

If they're shit, they should be held accountable. Perhaps not like this though.

They are - there is a review of Refs performance after every match. Fuck ups = loss of status as test ref.

Lets be honest it is an almost impossible job and one it will be very difficult to find people to do it if this sort of shit is allowed to continue.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:23 pm They are - there is a review of Refs performance after every match. Fuck ups = loss of status as test ref.

Lets be honest it is an almost impossible job and one it will be very difficult to find people to do it if this sort of shit is allowed to continue.

Depends on your point of view. Perhaps this can be a watershed moment in the game. Look at the technology they use in cricket nowadays, surely something similar can be trialed to deal with things like forward passes, chasers in front of kickers, offside line.

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:10 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:56 am Get a ref in to explain things to them like every major side does on a regular basis

But let's be painfully clear here: he's not looking to "understand" the rulings. He simply wants to complain that they were wrong. That's what this whole circus is about.

They often do, but the WR Referee Assessment report of a referee's last performance is also a valuable tool that forms part of the preparation for a match.
It is where referee error is admitted and corrective action is recommended.

Even if an independent referee advises the Boks that the on-field decision was incorrect, without feedback from WR or the official on the day admitting that, there is no reason to assume it will be a focus area for the official in the next match. If the referees are going to allow players to fly off their feet at rucks, then we select other players to when a referee is likely to allow for 2 extra seconds of competing for the ball on the ground. If the player in a better position jumping for a high ball is not going to be given the benefit, then maybe you prepare by not contesting in the air and rather timing a tackle and going for the counter-ruck.

You're asking the impossible. Referees and the laws of rugby are essentially subjective - expecting WR to write up a report on the hundreds of decisions + non-decisions the officials make after every match is not what the Referee Assessment is about.

And if you really want to get cynical, if tip-tackles are allowed as long as the ball carrier braces with their arm risking a shoulder injury, then maybe we should train players to resist the urge to brace so we can milk the yellow/red card?

Tip tackles are not allowed regardless of whether they brace with their arm, what on earth are you talking about? The sanction might be different, but that's not the same thing. Yellows and reds have been given even in cases where an arm has stopped direct head contact because referees can view this subjectively and decide in their opinion it was still dangerous enough.

Of course you're probably talking about Hamish Watson's tackle, which did not involve any movement of the tackled player to brace himself and would not have involved him being speared head first into the ground if the arm hadn't hit first.

I will say that the idea that milking things can lead to a better outcome is not new and it is a concern. But that's a difficult thing to legislate for.

None of that will come from just asking Andre Watson for his opinion of the Berry's performance...especially if Berry is going to be running as AR in the next match and hasn't given his errors from the previous week have not been formally reviewed yet.

No, ffs. The idea isn't to ask Andre Watson for his opinion of Berry's performance. The idea is to ask Andre Watson to help the Boks avoid falling foul of the decisions Berry was making (or not making). Watson will be able to explain the justification for most of the decisions in particular areas - it's pretty common practice when teams need help sorting out their discipline. But if all you're doing is saying "well, Berry was fucking shit so Watson can't really help" then what the fuck do you expect WR to do? It's just a gigantic whinge on the back of a loss where the Saffers had some decisions go against them after a first half in which plenty of dodgy decisions went their way, exacerbated by a pissed coach who thinks it's a great idea to drag the sport down with this gigantic toy-throwing exercise.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:30 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:23 pm They are - there is a review of Refs performance after every match. Fuck ups = loss of status as test ref.

Lets be honest it is an almost impossible job and one it will be very difficult to find people to do it if this sort of shit is allowed to continue.

Depends on your point of view. Perhaps this can be a watershed moment in the game. Look at the technology they use in cricket nowadays, surely something similar can be trialed to deal with things like forward passes, chasers in front of kickers, offside line.

I am beginning to think you guys have no idea what the impact on the sport would be if everything was ruled to the letter of the lawbook. It'd be an absolute farce.

though the idea of using technology to determine a forward pass given the actual forward pass law in place is quite, quite funny

He's not a coach, he's a water boy.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:30 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:23 pm They are - there is a review of Refs performance after every match. Fuck ups = loss of status as test ref.

Lets be honest it is an almost impossible job and one it will be very difficult to find people to do it if this sort of shit is allowed to continue.

Depends on your point of view. Perhaps this can be a watershed moment in the game. Look at the technology they use in cricket nowadays, surely something similar can be trialed to deal with things like forward passes, chasers in front of kickers, offside line.

Games of cricket can last for upto 5 days FFS. And still contain controversial/marginal umpiring decisions.

This whole series has been a farce from start to finish. Pathetic.

Really digging a hole for themselves aren't they.

So, shall we not do Lions tours to SA anymore? Just Oz and NZ? Or maybe do Argentina / Japan?

A concerted effort to blame the officials for literally every part of the Saffers game, including their entire tactical gameplan. Nice one. Great stuff.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:45 pm

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:30 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:23 pm They are - there is a review of Refs performance after every match. Fuck ups = loss of status as test ref.

Lets be honest it is an almost impossible job and one it will be very difficult to find people to do it if this sort of shit is allowed to continue.

Depends on your point of view. Perhaps this can be a watershed moment in the game. Look at the technology they use in cricket nowadays, surely something similar can be trialed to deal with things like forward passes, chasers in front of kickers, offside line.

I am beginning to think you guys have no idea what the impact on the sport would be if everything was ruled to the letter of the lawbook. It'd be an absolute farce.

though the idea of using technology to determine a forward pass given the actual forward pass law in place is quite, quite funny

You saying a programmer cant write a program that factors in simple things like momentum? Fok, how did humanity ever get to the moon.

average joe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:14 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:45 pm

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:30 pm

Depends on your point of view. Perhaps this can be a watershed moment in the game. Look at the technology they use in cricket nowadays, surely something similar can be trialed to deal with things like forward passes, chasers in front of kickers, offside line.

I am beginning to think you guys have no idea what the impact on the sport would be if everything was ruled to the letter of the lawbook. It'd be an absolute farce.

though the idea of using technology to determine a forward pass given the actual forward pass law in place is quite, quite funny

You saying a programmer cant write a program that factors in simple things like momentum? Fok, how did humanity ever get to the moon.

This is an even dumber response than I was expecting, holy shit

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:12 pm Really digging a hole for themselves aren't they.

So, shall we not do Lions tours to SA anymore? Just Oz and NZ? Or maybe do Argentina / Japan?

Seeing as we'll be part of the 6 nations soon, that's not such a bad idea. Perhaps you could even pick South African players for the Lions and call them the B&I Springboks.

I can't see anyone rushing to give South Africa a golden ticket to join the 6 Nations after this shambolic display.

average joe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:17 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:12 pm Really digging a hole for themselves aren't they.

So, shall we not do Lions tours to SA anymore? Just Oz and NZ? Or maybe do Argentina / Japan?

Seeing as we'll be part of the 6 nations soon, that's not such a bad idea. Perhaps you could even pick South African players for the Lions and call them the B&I Springboks.

You won't be.

Not even if you wish really, really hard.

you guys seem so upset

Some posters on here have short memories. This tour has some way to go to reach the spite levels seen in the previous Lions tour to New Zealand. It's simply the nature of Lions tours and has been for ages now.

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:42 pm Some posters on here have short memories. This tour has some way to go to reach the spite levels seen in the previous Lions tour to New Zealand. It's simply the nature of Lions tours and has been for ages now.

I told them the same before but no one wanted to listen. They're all just so angry and outraged right now.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:24 pm I can't see anyone rushing to give South Africa a golden ticket to join the 6 Nations after this shambolic display.

We are still playing in the Rugby Championship. No-one is keen for 7N entry at present. Club vs Country is still miles apart.

average joe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:48 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:42 pm Some posters on here have short memories. This tour has some way to go to reach the spite levels seen in the previous Lions tour to New Zealand. It's simply the nature of Lions tours and has been for ages now.

I told them the same before but no one wanted to listen. They're all just so angry and outraged right now.

Somebody in world rugby needs to have standards. The colonials just aren't ready yet.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:16 pm

average joe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:14 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:45 pm

I am beginning to think you guys have no idea what the impact on the sport would be if everything was ruled to the letter of the lawbook. It'd be an absolute farce.

though the idea of using technology to determine a forward pass given the actual forward pass law in place is quite, quite funny

You saying a programmer cant write a program that factors in simple things like momentum? Fok, how did humanity ever get to the moon.

This is an even dumber response than I was expecting, holy shit

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:12 pm Really digging a hole for themselves aren't they.

So, shall we not do Lions tours to SA anymore? Just Oz and NZ? Or maybe do Argentina / Japan?

Honestly, if this is what SA rugby is becoming, let them burn.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:07 pm Honestly, if this is what SA rugby is becoming, let them burn.

You seem to be confusing our rugby union with our shopping centres.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:07 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:12 pm Really digging a hole for themselves aren't they.

So, shall we not do Lions tours to SA anymore? Just Oz and NZ? Or maybe do Argentina / Japan?

Honestly, if this is what SA rugby is becoming, let them burn.

It's one coach - not every coach. Rassie has always been obsessed with video replays and analysis. Goes back to his playing days. He bored the WP and Munster players rigid with his endless team meetings in the old days.

Unfortunately he's figured out social media and now can't resist sharing all his shite with everyone else.