While they wait for their cases to be examined, a lengthy process that gives them every chance to disappear, they are housed and fed and given £35 a week, including £25 in vouchers to be exchanged in the shops.
Then, after x months in the country, they can apply for a work permit. But they can easily find work without a permit, because the black economy in Britain is worth some £80bn a year - four times the size of France's.
The being put up with all inclusive with pocket money during a lengthy process, is far too familiar.
I also read somewhere very recently (on a charity site) about the UK accommodating black market was a draw.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:37 am
by Tichtheid
Also from a Gov website
Penalties for employing illegal workers
You can be sent to jail for 5 years and pay an unlimited fine if you’re found guilty of employing someone who you knew or had ‘reasonable cause to believe’ did not have the right to work in the UK.
This includes, for example, if you had any reason to believe that:
they did not have leave (permission) to enter or remain in the UK
their leave had expired
they were not allowed to do certain types of work
their papers were incorrect or false
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:40 am
by Ymx
This type of anecdotal evidence worry parents
It’s not recent, but still true.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:45 am
by Ymx
This also, where a 15 year old girl was targeted
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
by Tichtheid
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
There is no penalty for an employer who hires an illegal immigrant.
From uk gov website
Asylum seekers are only allowed to work in the UK if they have not had a decision on their claim for over 12 months. This must be through no fault of their own. If you are able to work, you can only do the jobs on the Shortage Occupation List.
It is a criminal offence to work in the UK without the right to do so. Migrants working illegally can be imprisoned for up to 6 months. Wages from working illegally can be seized as the proceeds of crime if someone knows or has reasonable cause to believe a person is working illegally.
If an employer is found to be employing someone illegally, the employer may be fined or face prosecution.
Only those with lawful immigration status can rent private accommodation. It is a criminal offence for landlords and agents to knowingly let property to an illegal migrant.
Migrants in the UK illegally are not able to access public funds. Those without lawful immigration status may also be charged if they require hospital treatment or secondary health care whilst in the UK. Outstanding payments for medical treatment can also result in further immigration applications being refused.
Other services, like bank accounts and driving licences are also restricted if you are in the UK illegally.
Question is can we find any such applications of the law?
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:59 am
by SaintK
You are obsessed much!
The vast percentage of asylum seekers don't commit any crime.
The majority of sexual assaults are committed by someone that is well known to the victim
There is no penalty for an employer who hires an illegal immigrant.
From uk gov website
Asylum seekers are only allowed to work in the UK if they have not had a decision on their claim for over 12 months. This must be through no fault of their own. If you are able to work, you can only do the jobs on the Shortage Occupation List.
It is a criminal offence to work in the UK without the right to do so. Migrants working illegally can be imprisoned for up to 6 months. Wages from working illegally can be seized as the proceeds of crime if someone knows or has reasonable cause to believe a person is working illegally.
If an employer is found to be employing someone illegally, the employer may be fined or face prosecution.
Only those with lawful immigration status can rent private accommodation. It is a criminal offence for landlords and agents to knowingly let property to an illegal migrant.
Migrants in the UK illegally are not able to access public funds. Those without lawful immigration status may also be charged if they require hospital treatment or secondary health care whilst in the UK. Outstanding payments for medical treatment can also result in further immigration applications being refused.
Other services, like bank accounts and driving licences are also restricted if you are in the UK illegally.
Question is can we find any such applications of the law?
Again from gov dot uk
Since the start of 2018, almost 5,000 civil penalties have been issued to employers with a total value of £88.4m. Meanwhile, landlords have been hit with over 320 civil penalties worth a total of £215,500 in the same period. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/trip ... e%20period.
Asylum seekers are only allowed to work in the UK if they have not had a decision on their claim for over 12 months. This must be through no fault of their own. If you are able to work, you can only do the jobs on the Shortage Occupation List.
It is a criminal offence to work in the UK without the right to do so. Migrants working illegally can be imprisoned for up to 6 months. Wages from working illegally can be seized as the proceeds of crime if someone knows or has reasonable cause to believe a person is working illegally.
If an employer is found to be employing someone illegally, the employer may be fined or face prosecution.
Only those with lawful immigration status can rent private accommodation. It is a criminal offence for landlords and agents to knowingly let property to an illegal migrant.
Migrants in the UK illegally are not able to access public funds. Those without lawful immigration status may also be charged if they require hospital treatment or secondary health care whilst in the UK. Outstanding payments for medical treatment can also result in further immigration applications being refused.
Other services, like bank accounts and driving licences are also restricted if you are in the UK illegally.
Question is can we find any such applications of the law?
Again from gov dot uk
Since the start of 2018, almost 5,000 civil penalties have been issued to employers with a total value of £88.4m. Meanwhile, landlords have been hit with over 320 civil penalties worth a total of £215,500 in the same period. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/trip ... e%20period.
Cheers. Probably tip of iceberg stuff. Especially in regards Black Hole of London landlords.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:43 am
by Insane_Homer
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:29 am
It's all justified because they can demonise them all as 'illegal' and be suitably outraged and "scared", wringing their hands with angst in fear & it's the sympathetic (All virtue signalers!) that are the problem. It's an intrinsically narrow, simplistic and selfish view.
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:40 am
This type of anecdotal evidence worry parents
It’s not recent, but still true.
Should we fear all New Zealanders in the UK now because of Dan Wootton?
and should we also concluded that all Tories & their supporters are racist?
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
I think you're very wrong there. There's a huge amount of evidence that what you would consider rape and sexual assault matches those figures.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:52 am
by JM2K6
Also can I humbly suggest to NPR posters that maybe when someone starts spamming links to far right twitter accounts as "evidence" that there's zero good faith discussion to be had and you should make liberal use of the ignore function? There is no way back from that that doesn't involve some sort of personal epiphany; forum arguments are not going to make a dent.
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:29 am
It's all justified because they can demonise them all as 'illegal' and be suitably outraged and "scared", wringing their hands with angst in fear & it's the sympathetic (All virtue signalers!) that are the problem. It's an intrinsically narrow, simplistic and selfish view.
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:40 am
This type of anecdotal evidence worry parents
It’s not recent, but still true.
Should we fear all New Zealanders in the UK now because of Dan Wootton?
and should we also concluded that all Tories & their supporters are racist?
Was it not you who initialled created the thread title on Tories, and have you not been quite active in equating Tory voters to scum, racist and fascist?
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
I think you're very wrong there. There's a huge amount of evidence that what you would consider rape and sexual assault matches those figures.
I don't want to get into a sh*tfight over this because I think broadly we are on the same side of this headline topic. However, I take issue with those types of statistics on a number of levels:
1) They simply defy credibility. Put it this way, if correct, you lot have one helluva sick society in the UK. Think about it: in any of your own family gatherings (a wedding, say), which of them are abusing their children? Because, statistically it would have to be many of them. I don't think the defence of "it's all them other wierdos that's at it" works.
2) For me, this is exaggerated, alarmist nonsense and, in a complete irony, is identical in every way to the alarmist right wing cr*p you and I are rubbishing in this topic: just that it's pervaded by the left! Somewhere I read that the UK poverty measure included lack of access to mobile phones, the internet and satellite TV. Give me a break. It reminds me of the brilliant and now banned Brass Eye's episode of Paedogeddon .
3) And the trouble with this type of exaggeration is that it is counter productive in that it undermines the seriousness of genuine cases.
Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 12:14 pm
Well it does. It’s actually the main point.
If they are being processed elsewhere, then we don’t need to misappropriate precious accommodation, or impact communities.
If they're processed quickly, we don't have to put them up for years, impacting communities, accommodation or budgets.
The only reason we're spending so much money on things like this fucking barge is because we're not processing claims. It's deliberate to create headlines in the right wing press and present an 'other' for people to fear.
I’m assuming there are claims which need investigating. Evidence which needs creating. Original domicile which needs proving without ID documents. Possible hearings. Then there are the appeals. Lawyers experienced in dragging it out. Those which are not disbarred.
You actually think the processing delays are staged and deliberate by the Tory’s in a deep state kind of way?
Robert Jenrick confirmed this morning on Sky News that the delays in processing are deliberate.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
I think you're very wrong there. There's a huge amount of evidence that what you would consider rape and sexual assault matches those figures.
I don't want to get into a sh*tfight over this because I think broadly we are on the same side of this headline topic. However, I take issue with those types of statistics on a number of levels:
1) They simply defy credibility. Put it this way, if correct, you lot have one helluva sick society in the UK. Think about it: in any of your own family gatherings (a wedding, say), which of them are abusing their children? Because, statistically it would have to be many of them. I don't think the defence of "it's all them other wierdos that's at it" works.
2) For me, this is exaggerated, alarmist nonsense and, in a complete irony, is identical in every way to the alarmist right wing cr*p you and I are rubbishing in this topic: just that it's pervaded by the left! Somewhere I read that the UK poverty measure included lack of access to mobile phones, the internet and satellite TV. Give me a break. It reminds me of the brilliant and now banned Brass Eye's episode of Paedogeddon .
3) And the trouble with this type of exaggeration is that it is counter productive in that it undermines the seriousness of genuine cases.
I can't speak to the point about child sexual abuse, I don't know anything about the stats on that (and I would also point out that it's unlikely to be all about "people abusing their children" and there's teenage girls being raped & assaulted by others). However, even anecdotally the stats on rape and sexual assault for adults tracks with what I've heard from many women over the years. It really is not uncommon. The majority of women I've been close enough to for them to discuss this sort of thing with me have talked about it.
In the absence of any evidence to the contrary I would be very, very wary of dismissing it out of hand based on feelings.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:30 pm
by Insane_Homer
shaggy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:50 am
Was it not you who initialled created the thread title on Tories,
Yes
shaggy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:50 am
and have you not been quite active in equating Tory voters to scum, racist and fascist?
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
Willingness??
I think you will find that the vast majority of police and prosecutors love nothing more than locking up criminals but pesky things like evidence, laws and absolutely fuck all resources tend to hamper their efforts.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
Willingness??
I think you will find that the vast majority of police and prosecutors love nothing more than locking up criminals but pesky things like evidence, laws and absolutely fuck all resources tend to hamper their efforts.
I accept that your own experiences as a serving officer in Scotland might well differ but in England that really is utter bollox. And I'm not even going to bother to point to the mass of recent media coverage highlighting exactly that.
{EDIT} But I will point to this. Took me a bit to find from news feed last week: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/236 ... nce-women/
In his annual report published on Wednesday, Craig Naylor, HM chief inspector of constabulary in Scotland (HMCICS) said.... A series of negative reports and reviews across England and Wales, whose findings have not been replicated in Scotland
I'd suggest you have been working in a bubble in Scotland which in no way is representative of England. Especially those ****s in the Met.
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:29 am
It's all justified because they can demonise them all as 'illegal' and be suitably outraged and "scared", wringing their hands with angst in fear & it's the sympathetic (All virtue signalers!) that are the problem. It's an intrinsically narrow, simplistic and selfish view.
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:40 am
This type of anecdotal evidence worry parents
It’s not recent, but still true.
Should we fear all New Zealanders in the UK now because of Dan Wootton?
and should we also concluded that all Tories & their supporters are racist?
Was it not you who initialled created the thread title on Tories, and have you not been quite active in equating Tory voters to scum, racist and fascist?
I wouldn't say tory voters are scum. Some are, but most are easily frightened or fooled.
Tory MPs on the other hand have a much higher percentage of each.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:54 pm
by Tichtheid
From the ONS
An estimated 3.1 million adults aged 18 to 74 years were victims of sexual abuse before the age of 16 years; this includes abuse by both adult and child perpetrators. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... anuary2020
I did a whole big spiel on population numbers and how the above comes down to 1 in 3.4 people aged 16 and under have suffered sexual abuse in England and Wales, but I realised there were just too many variables and that I was using population numbers for the whole of the UK for those aged 16 and under and trying to get to just England and Wales via another sum, so it was far too rough, so I've deleted the top half of this post.
Also, there is nothing to support the idea that those currently aged 16 and under are being abused at the same rate, but even with all of that in mind, those numbers are appalling.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
I'd suggest you may be very surprised about the difference between the views of a reasonable man and a reasonable woman in that regard.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 2:04 pm
by Tichtheid
I've gone the other way and counted the number of people aged 16 to 74 in England and Wales, that comes out at around 1 in 10 in England and Wales from that age cohort suffered sexual abuse when under the age of 16.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am
According to Rape Crisis England and Wales, 1 in 18 men have been sexually assaulted or raped as an adult. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult. 1 in 6 children have been sexually abused.
Hmm. Whilst I am sure the incidences of these things are much higher than any of us would like, I doubt it's anywhere near those numbers based upon what a reasonable person would classify as rape or sexual assault. What is a disgrace is the lack of willingness to prosecute and lack of success of prosecution of offenders by the police and the "justice" system.
I'd suggest you may be very surprised about the difference between the views of a reasonable man and a reasonable woman in that regard.
No I would not. In my view such differences knock the man out of the reasonable category immediately.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:30 pm
by Ymx
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:52 am
Also can I humbly suggest to NPR posters that maybe when someone starts spamming links to far right twitter accounts as "evidence" that there's zero good faith discussion to be had and you should make liberal use of the ignore function? There is no way back from that that doesn't involve some sort of personal epiphany; forum arguments are not going to make a dent.
Unbelievable, even where it’s a direct video linked, you’ll just blanket dismiss and block it all out, if it’s from anyone to the right of Corbyn.
You pretty much think the Tory’s are Nazis. Wait you’ve actually directly said that.
If they're processed quickly, we don't have to put them up for years, impacting communities, accommodation or budgets.
The only reason we're spending so much money on things like this fucking barge is because we're not processing claims. It's deliberate to create headlines in the right wing press and present an 'other' for people to fear.
I’m assuming there are claims which need investigating. Evidence which needs creating. Original domicile which needs proving without ID documents. Possible hearings. Then there are the appeals. Lawyers experienced in dragging it out. Those which are not disbarred.
You actually think the processing delays are staged and deliberate by the Tory’s in a deep state kind of way?
Robert Jenrick confirmed this morning on Sky News that the delays in processing are deliberate.
You got a link to that? Be interested to hear the exact details of what was said to infer that.
I won’t disregard it, if it’s a tweet posted from a lefty.
If they're processed quickly, we don't have to put them up for years, impacting communities, accommodation or budgets.
The only reason we're spending so much money on things like this fucking barge is because we're not processing claims. It's deliberate to create headlines in the right wing press and present an 'other' for people to fear.
I’m assuming there are claims which need investigating. Evidence which needs creating. Original domicile which needs proving without ID documents. Possible hearings. Then there are the appeals. Lawyers experienced in dragging it out. Those which are not disbarred.
You actually think the processing delays are staged and deliberate by the Tory’s in a deep state kind of way?
Robert Jenrick confirmed this morning on Sky News that the delays in processing are deliberate.
Don't process "illegal immigrants", don't get lambasted by the media for being soft on immigration, plus a bonus round of The Other, massing on YOUR doorstep, and we're the only ones who can keep you safe from them!
Plus big fat transfers of public money to the ever hungry maw of the chums and donors, and thence a slice to the Party coffers via donations.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:58 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:30 pm
Unbelievable, even where it’s a direct video linked, you’ll just blanket dismiss and block it all out, if it’s from anyone to the right of Corbyn.
You pretty much think the Tory’s are Nazis. Wait you’ve actually directly said that.
Suit yourself.
It is self evident that a significant element of the Tory party holds many views that align with those of the Nazis.
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:30 pm
Unbelievable, even where it’s a direct video linked, you’ll just blanket dismiss and block it all out, if it’s from anyone to the right of Corbyn.
You pretty much think the Tory’s are Nazis. Wait you’ve actually directly said that.
Suit yourself.
It is self evident that a significant element of the Tory party holds many views that align with those of the Nazis.
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:30 pm
Unbelievable, even where it’s a direct video linked, you’ll just blanket dismiss and block it all out, if it’s from anyone to the right of Corbyn.
You pretty much think the Tory’s are Nazis. Wait you’ve actually directly said that.
Suit yourself.
It is self evident that a significant element of the Tory party holds many views that align with those of the Nazis.
Please feel free to post some evidence of this
Scapegoating immigrants as rapists who will steal your job and spend your taxes more than nationals will is straight out the Hitler playbook, no?
The whole Tory messaging around immigration is actively racist (as evidenced by the number of Tory voting, Brexit supporting UK migrants who seemed amazed that what they’d voted for and / or supported meant they could no longer live where they wanted to).
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:15 pm
by Simian
Even the whole ‘culture wars’ stuff they do is kinda nazi, no?
I’m assuming there are claims which need investigating. Evidence which needs creating. Original domicile which needs proving without ID documents. Possible hearings. Then there are the appeals. Lawyers experienced in dragging it out. Those which are not disbarred.
You actually think the processing delays are staged and deliberate by the Tory’s in a deep state kind of way?
Robert Jenrick confirmed this morning on Sky News that the delays in processing are deliberate.
You got a link to that? Be interested to hear the exact details of what was said to infer that.
I won’t disregard it, if it’s a tweet posted from a lefty.
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:30 pm
Unbelievable, even where it’s a direct video linked, you’ll just blanket dismiss and block it all out, if it’s from anyone to the right of Corbyn.
You pretty much think the Tory’s are Nazis. Wait you’ve actually directly said that.
Suit yourself.
It is self evident that a significant element of the Tory party holds many views that align with those of the Nazis.
Robert Jenrick confirmed this morning on Sky News that the delays in processing are deliberate.
You got a link to that? Be interested to hear the exact details of what was said to infer that.
I won’t disregard it, if it’s a tweet posted from a lefty.
How lefty is Sky News?
It’s pretty filthy lefty, but that won’t stop me. Thanks !
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:02 pm
by Ymx
Found the full interview, to get the full context, it seemed cut off after he simply said faster processing hadn’t been the solution before.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:19 pm
by Ymx
It was after she had postured that the nub of the problem was that it took longer.
He said it isn’t the nub of the problem but it is something they have to get right. Yvette Cooper “just if you process more quickly it will fix it”. He then clarified why it was not the nub of the problem, in that previously faster processing had not solved it before.
But it is right that they make the home office more efficient.
So it was a good cheeky sound bite.
Re: Dinghy people / asylum
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:29 pm
by Ymx
“Targeted the backlog by end of year”
“2500 decision makers” “double”
“Rwanda strategy is important “
“Making the UK a less attractive destination”
“Putting people in rudimentary but decent, not luxurious accommodation”
I think it’s actually a pretty honest interview. Some might not like the messaging, but it’s honest.
