Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:34 pm
Biggest worry is the officiating protocol.
Seems like they are making it up as they go along. No hierarchy. No structure. Basically 2 refs now, one on the field, one off, undermining each other. Players now encouraged to argue with and manipulate both refs. They’ll be in the on-field refs face, football style soon. Quick games now no longer possible. That game took over two hours.
Anyone count how many times the TMO interfered?
ABs will never be able to use their competitive advantage - high tempo game - with this type of disruptive officiating protocol and other teams will milk it, questioning the ref when they need a break. WR is forcing the ABs to play the boring, forward dominated game like the home countries and SA.
Also, the 'team yellow concept' needs to be reviewed. Barrett first yellow was not a yellow card offence as I know (didn't see it), but takes a yellow for the team. This yellow should not then be tied to the player, but to the team.
Shit game. Not because of the result but because of the massive issues WR has right now. And they seem impotent in being able to sort it out.
So you are suggesting the officials should just ignore penalising offences? Or just ones committed by the AB's. Didnt see a single bad decision in that game, i dont like Carley much as a ref but he did fine last night. Maybe you should direct your ire at the players who just kept infringing and were too stupid to adapt instead of the ref?
At last a Ref penalized them for their infringements.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:05 am
by Gumboot
Chilli wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:42 amAt last a Ref penalized them for their infringements.
You boets just can't resist having a crack at the referees, can ya.
Chill out ffs, you won the game by a record margin.
Chilli wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:42 amAt last a Ref penalized them for their infringements.
You boets just can't resist having a crack at the referees, can ya.
Chill out ffs, you won the game by a record margin.
Enjoy!
In a poll on fb , South Africans are very happy with the refs performance.
Yeah, but "At last..." implies that every other ref since forever has failed to officiate the ABs, which is patent nonsense.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:19 am
by Sandstorm
If Barrett’s head smash on a prone Marx lying on the floor isn’t referred and he doesn’t get 3 weeks off, then the entire player safety initiative should be thrown in the bin.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:21 am
by Gumboot
Obsessed!
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:22 am
by Torquemada 1420
Probably belongs on the "who next for injuries" thread. Was at JB last night watching pretty poor fare with only snippets from this game and aside from SB's entirely unexpected stupidity looking to rule him out of games, there were suggestions of serious injuries to Lomax, de Groot and Marx
These warm up matches might end up being a deciding a factor in the RWC: but not in any good way anyone might have imagined.
Obsessed with safety? You bet. Aren’t you concerned too?
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:33 am
by Gumboot
You're trying way too hard now, bro. No bites here, I'm afraid. Too busy humbly digesting the vinegar pie of defeat.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:35 am
by Sandstorm
Gumboot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:33 am
You're trying way too hard now, bro. No bites here, I'm afraid. Too busy humbly digesting the vinegar pie of defeat.
Not trolling, it’s early and I’m hungover (and happy). However there are several Kiwi posts on the previous page calling Barrett’s 2nd yellow “enough” and suggesting he won’t get more…….
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:45 am
by Gumboot
Muttonchops? C'mon mate, who takes him seriously?
Barrett should cop at least a 3-week ban for that, but given his name isn't Farrell, he'll probably get 6. And you won't hear me bleating.
Happy now?
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:47 am
by Sandstorm
Gumboot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:45 am
Muttonchops? C'mon mate, who takes him seriously?
Barrett should cop at least a 3-week ban for that, but given his name isn't Farrell, he'll probably get 6. And you won't hear me bleating.
Happy now?
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:55 am
by OomStruisbaai
Have to go to the Dorp (Bredasdorp) this morning. Looking forward to a greenish outlook, smiling faces.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:06 am
by boere wors
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:22 am
Probably belongs on the "who next for injuries" thread. Was at JB last night watching pretty poor fare with only snippets from this game and aside from SB's entirely unexpected stupidity looking to rule him out of games, there were suggestions of serious injuries to Lomax, de Groot and Marx
These warm up matches might end up being a deciding a factor in the RWC: but not in any good way anyone might have imagined.
Marx injured? I think i saw him sitting and laughing on the bench at the end of the game. Didnt look injured
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:22 am
Probably belongs on the "who next for injuries" thread. Was at JB last night watching pretty poor fare with only snippets from this game and aside from SB's entirely unexpected stupidity looking to rule him out of games, there were suggestions of serious injuries to Lomax, de Groot and Marx
These warm up matches might end up being a deciding a factor in the RWC: but not in any good way anyone might have imagined.
Marx injured? I think i saw him sitting and laughing on the bench at the end of the game. Didnt look injured
That's good news. Came up on the Midi Olympique feed as an injury.
Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:34 pm
Biggest worry is the officiating protocol.
Seems like they are making it up as they go along. No hierarchy. No structure. Basically 2 refs now, one on the field, one off, undermining each other. Players now encouraged to argue with and manipulate both refs. They’ll be in the on-field refs face, football style soon. Quick games now no longer possible. That game took over two hours.
Anyone count how many times the TMO interfered?
ABs will never be able to use their competitive advantage - high tempo game - with this type of disruptive officiating protocol and other teams will milk it, questioning the ref when they need a break. WR is forcing the ABs to play the boring, forward dominated game like the home countries and SA.
Also, the 'team yellow concept' needs to be reviewed. Barrett first yellow was not a yellow card offence as I know (didn't see it), but takes a yellow for the team. This yellow should not then be tied to the player, but to the team.
Shit game. Not because of the result but because of the massive issues WR has right now. And they seem impotent in being able to sort it out.
So you are suggesting the officials should just ignore penalising offences? Or just ones committed by the AB's. Didnt see a single bad decision in that game, i dont like Carley much as a ref but he did fine last night. Maybe you should direct your ire at the players who just kept infringing and were too stupid to adapt instead of the ref?
Mongbird whines more than a Rolls Royce jet engine!!
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:23 am
by Guy Smiley
A question for the thinking Kiwi fans and other interested bystanders...
some hair raisingly good performances this year coming into this game. Performances that saw the ball stick where players wanted it to, where the high risk, maximum tempo and outrageous skills collection all come together and it clicks.
We've seen this happen before although there's been a bit more structure to it, a bit more class across the park if you look at the team that took shape in the years before RWC 2015.
Since then, we've seen more of a 'getting away with it' style from the ABs... less of a structured game with sheer talent and luck at times carrying the day.
My question is this... were the tests this year prior to this last game the aberration or a sign of things to come. Was the loss to the Boks yet another example of Fozball or was it the aberration?
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:44 am
by Slick
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:23 am
A question for the thinking Kiwi fans and other interested bystanders...
some hair raisingly good performances this year coming into this game. Performances that saw the ball stick where players wanted it to, where the high risk, maximum tempo and outrageous skills collection all come together and it clicks.
We've seen this happen before although there's been a bit more structure to it, a bit more class across the park if you look at the team that took shape in the years before RWC 2015.
Since then, we've seen more of a 'getting away with it' style from the ABs... less of a structured game with sheer talent and luck at times carrying the day.
My question is this... were the tests this year prior to this last game the aberration or a sign of things to come. Was the loss to the Boks yet another example of Fozball or was it the aberration?
NZ just didn’t look “on it” right from the get go. You see it from juniors to the top level, if the mind isn’t in the right place for a “friendly”, teams usually fall apart.
SA looked good but I wouldn’t be reading a massive amount into it to be honest
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:23 am
A question for the thinking Kiwi fans and other interested bystanders...
some hair raisingly good performances this year coming into this game. Performances that saw the ball stick where players wanted it to, where the high risk, maximum tempo and outrageous skills collection all come together and it clicks.
We've seen this happen before although there's been a bit more structure to it, a bit more class across the park if you look at the team that took shape in the years before RWC 2015.
Since then, we've seen more of a 'getting away with it' style from the ABs... less of a structured game with sheer talent and luck at times carrying the day.
My question is this... were the tests this year prior to this last game the aberration or a sign of things to come. Was the loss to the Boks yet another example of Fozball or was it the aberration?
NZ just didn’t look “on it” right from the get go. You see it from juniors to the top level, if the mind isn’t in the right place for a “friendly”, teams usually fall apart.
SA looked good but I wouldn’t be reading a massive amount into it to be honest
The All Blacks go into it as a warmup .Springboks going into it as a properse test.
Thing is we totally out played them. Next time they should try a warmup against Wales URC team.
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:23 am
A question for the thinking Kiwi fans and other interested bystanders...
some hair raisingly good performances this year coming into this game. Performances that saw the ball stick where players wanted it to, where the high risk, maximum tempo and outrageous skills collection all come together and it clicks.
We've seen this happen before although there's been a bit more structure to it, a bit more class across the park if you look at the team that took shape in the years before RWC 2015.
Since then, we've seen more of a 'getting away with it' style from the ABs... less of a structured game with sheer talent and luck at times carrying the day.
My question is this... were the tests this year prior to this last game the aberration or a sign of things to come. Was the loss to the Boks yet another example of Fozball or was it the aberration?
NZ just didn’t look “on it” right from the get go. You see it from juniors to the top level, if the mind isn’t in the right place for a “friendly”, teams usually fall apart.
SA looked good but I wouldn’t be reading a massive amount into it to be honest
The All Blacks go into it as a warmup .Springboks going into it as a properse test.
Thing is we totally out played them. Next time they should try a warmup against Wales URC team.
ABs need to adjust to Northern refs. We also struggled with lineouts at first
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:19 pm
by Deveron Boy
Sards wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:33 am
[quote=OomStruisbaai post_id=302808 time=<a href="tel:1693044955">1693044955</a> user_id=473]
[quote=Slick post_id=302791 time=<a href="tel:1693039499">1693039499</a> user_id=264]
[quote="Guy Smiley" post_id=302790 time=<a href="tel:1693038222">1693038222</a> user_id=79]
A question for the thinking Kiwi fans and other interested bystanders...
some hair raisingly good performances this year coming into this game. Performances that saw the ball stick where players wanted it to, where the high risk, maximum tempo and outrageous skills collection all come together and it clicks.
We've seen this happen before although there's been a bit more structure to it, a bit more class across the park if you look at the team that took shape in the years before RWC 2015.
Since then, we've seen more of a 'getting away with it' style from the ABs... less of a structured game with sheer talent and luck at times carrying the day.
My question is this... were the tests this year prior to this last game the aberration or a sign of things to come. Was the loss to the Boks yet another example of Fozball or was it the aberration?
NZ just didn’t look “on it” right from the get go. You see it from juniors to the top level, if the mind isn’t in the right place for a “friendly”, teams usually fall apart.
SA looked good but I wouldn’t be reading a massive amount into it to be honest
[/quote]
The All Blacks go into it as a warmup .Springboks going into it as a properse test.
Thing is we totally out played them. Next time they should try a warmup against Wales URC team.
[/quote]
ABs need to adjust to Northern refs. We also struggled with lineouts at first
[/quote]
What? adjust to being penalised for actual infringements? I guess with 20 or 30 years of being lightly reffed it’s going to take a while to adjust?
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:30 pm
by Guy Smiley
Try to use a bit of critical thinking over blind emotion, if you don’t mind.
The ABs have never been lightly reffed. You’re living in a fantasy world if you believe that.
Cane, as captain should have pulled his team up and got them to respond to the ref’s preferences. Instead, he got himself carded. Poor captaincy from the guy Foster named as captain months before a game had been played.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:33 pm
by Chilli
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 7:39 pm
by Gumboot
Sards wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:33 amABs need to adjust to Northern refs.
Adapt to some NH refs perhaps, but we had NH refs for 3 of the 4 tests we won before yesterday, so...
Sards wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:33 amABs need to adjust to Northern refs.
Adapt to some NH refs perhaps, but we had NH refs for 3 of the 4 tests we won before yesterday, so...
In the URC when we started our lineouts were a mess similar to how the ABs got targeted yesterday. Took some adjusting to realize the NH refs look closely at lineouts and tolerate the mess at the breakdowns
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 6:09 am
by Biffer
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:30 pm
Try to use a bit of critical thinking over blind emotion, if you don’t mind.
The ABs have never been lightly reffed. You’re living in a fantasy world if you believe that.
Cane, as captain should have pulled his team up and got them to respond to the ref’s preferences. Instead, he got himself carded. Poor captaincy from the guy Foster named as captain months before a game had been played.
Ah, that eternal kiwi delusion, don’t you love it.
Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:34 pm
Biggest worry is the officiating protocol.
Seems like they are making it up as they go along. No hierarchy. No structure. Basically 2 refs now, one on the field, one off, undermining each other. Players now encouraged to argue with and manipulate both refs. They’ll be in the on-field refs face, football style soon. Quick games now no longer possible. That game took over two hours.
Anyone count how many times the TMO interfered?
ABs will never be able to use their competitive advantage - high tempo game - with this type of disruptive officiating protocol and other teams will milk it, questioning the ref when they need a break. WR is forcing the ABs to play the boring, forward dominated game like the home countries and SA.
Also, the 'team yellow concept' needs to be reviewed. Barrett first yellow was not a yellow card offence as I know (didn't see it), but takes a yellow for the team. This yellow should not then be tied to the player, but to the team.
Shit game. Not because of the result but because of the massive issues WR has right now. And they seem impotent in being able to sort it out.
So you are suggesting the officials should just ignore penalising offences? Or just ones committed by the AB's. Didnt see a single bad decision in that game, i dont like Carley much as a ref but he did fine last night. Maybe you should direct your ire at the players who just kept infringing and were too stupid to adapt instead of the ref?
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is this two ref situation, the stoppages to review, the multiple stakeholders in the ear of the one with the whistle, the players always asking questions and directing captains to hold up play all helps forward dominated teams like SA, and British teams. There now exist multiple avenues for them to pace the game to their liking.
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:30 pm
Try to use a bit of critical thinking over blind emotion, if you don’t mind.
The ABs have never been lightly reffed. You’re living in a fantasy world if you believe that.
Cane, as captain should have pulled his team up and got them to respond to the ref’s preferences. Instead, he got himself carded. Poor captaincy from the guy Foster named as captain months before a game had been played.
Ah, that eternal kiwi delusion, don’t you love it.
Either that or paranoid conspiracy theorists, right?
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:01 am
by Gumboot
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:30 pm
Try to use a bit of critical thinking over blind emotion, if you don’t mind.
The ABs have never been lightly reffed. You’re living in a fantasy world if you believe that.
Cane, as captain should have pulled his team up and got them to respond to the ref’s preferences. Instead, he got himself carded. Poor captaincy from the guy Foster named as captain months before a game had been played.
To be fair, Foster named Cane captain in May 2020, but then unforeseen Covid disruptions meant the ABs didn't actually get to play a test until October.
Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:34 pm
Biggest worry is the officiating protocol.
Seems like they are making it up as they go along. No hierarchy. No structure. Basically 2 refs now, one on the field, one off, undermining each other. Players now encouraged to argue with and manipulate both refs. They’ll be in the on-field refs face, football style soon. Quick games now no longer possible. That game took over two hours.
Anyone count how many times the TMO interfered?
ABs will never be able to use their competitive advantage - high tempo game - with this type of disruptive officiating protocol and other teams will milk it, questioning the ref when they need a break. WR is forcing the ABs to play the boring, forward dominated game like the home countries and SA.
Also, the 'team yellow concept' needs to be reviewed. Barrett first yellow was not a yellow card offence as I know (didn't see it), but takes a yellow for the team. This yellow should not then be tied to the player, but to the team.
Shit game. Not because of the result but because of the massive issues WR has right now. And they seem impotent in being able to sort it out.
So you are suggesting the officials should just ignore penalising offences? Or just ones committed by the AB's. Didnt see a single bad decision in that game, i dont like Carley much as a ref but he did fine last night. Maybe you should direct your ire at the players who just kept infringing and were too stupid to adapt instead of the ref?
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is this two ref situation, the stoppages to review, the multiple stakeholders in the ear of the one with the whistle, the players always asking questions and directing captains to hold up play all helps forward dominated teams like SA, and British teams. There now exist multiple avenues for them to pace the game to their liking.
The bit in bold is the only bit i agree about, player should only be red carded for 2 individual bits of foul play.
Want to stop players continually questioning the ref, make the refs give them 1warning, next time a penalty, next time a YC, it will soon stop
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:07 am
by OomStruisbaai
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:36 pm
by _Os_
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:32 pm
£110.00? Worth every penny.
The Kiwi Herald thinks "if you interviewed the entire 80,000 crowd at Twickenham, my guess is not one would say they got value for money". The maul should be outright banned because it is against the laws of rugby apparently. The Boks are also boring apparently. Various teams can play like the Boks apparently. Tell the truth, you had a shit time didn't you SS.
Always worth having a look around the Kiwi media after a good Bok win. Keep an eye on "Sir Clive" during the RWC if the Boks do well too, he will want the Boks banned, his outrage last time was that the Boks had reserves and used them which should be banned.
All Blacks v Springboks: Record defeat will benefit Ian Foster’s side ahead of Rugby World Cup - Paul Lewis
Believe it or not, that horrible, record loss of a test match will be of benefit to the All Blacks.
We’ve all heard of wake-up calls. This was an air raid siren, a tsunami alert, a klaxon blasted in All Black ears while they’re asleep. The Rugby Championship? Who cares?
This is what the All Blacks will face at the World Cup - and much of it is an indictment on rugby and the way it has painted itself into a corner of stupid rules and a ridiculous enthusiasm for ruining the spectacle so many people have paid good money for, in terms of tickets and TV.
They’ll come up against various nations who can play like the Springboks did - ruthless set pieces, relentless pressure, playing to punctilious referees and TMOs who could spot an infraction if it was committed by an ant at the opposite end of the field.
We’ll come back to how rugby is so quickly becoming the game that bored itself to death. First, we must salute the Springboks for playing their version of the game so well they inflicted the worst defeat in 102 years of All Blacks history.
They decimated the New Zealand lineout and, during the second half, demolished the scrum. Their rolling maul did the business even though stubborn All Blacks defence kept them at bay for 15 minutes or so before Siya Kolisi scored. A whole 30 minutes had gone by and New Zealand were still on defence and had not mounted an attack worthy of the name, so insistent was the Bok pressure and so mistake-laden the All Blacks.
That was even before Scott Barrett negated a stellar season with his sending-off for two yellow cards, neither of which needed to attract the attention of eagle-eyed referee and TMO.
So how will this be good for the All Blacks? It rids them of any notions of superiority following their Rugby Championship win. It introduced them heavily to the finicky, officious and painstaking curation of the rules by northern hemisphere referees, who will be highly evident during the World Cup. It told them their favourite running game - the game most Kiwis want to see - will end badly unless they nail down the basics first.
The All Blacks are perfectly capable of doing that, even if Ian Foster’s All Blacks have another awful, unwanted record: first to lose a series to Ireland; first to lose a test to Argentina and now their record test loss.
It was hard to say what their game plan was; they never emerged from a slew of penalties and mistakes to reveal one. It’s likely that, in the World Cup against leading opponents, they will go a lot more direct - the advantages of which were shown by one of their few bright lights, replacement halfback Cam Roigard, who scored their only try by breaking up the middle.
The Boks’ rolling maul started the rot, with the All Blacks suffering multiple penalties as they tried - and failed - to combat it to the satisfaction of the officials. Later, the Boks cleverly scored tries from two variations to the rolling maul.
While we are on the subject, why does the rolling maul even exist? It’s unsightly and technically illegal, according to the offside and obstruction rules of rugby. It’s about as visually pleasing as someone vomiting in your beanie. No disrespect is meant to the Boks - they did what they did extremely well; they set out their stall as defending World Cup champions and how they will play the game in France next month.
But it’s the grand old game of rugby that suffers when a test match is this awful to look at. There was no flow, little ball skills to speak of. Inventiveness and elusiveness? Missing, presumed dead. The errors ran amok, the officials showed every sign of thoroughly enjoying detecting them and, if you interviewed the entire 80,000 crowd at Twickenham, my guess is not one would say they got value for money.
By my count, it was 42 minutes before Will Jordan even touched the ball (and that was scoring a disallowed try, of course). In what universe is that worth watching?
Rugby needs to drop some of the plethora of rules it employs seemingly to bore us all to death - the rolling maul, the inevitable scrum penalty when one side wins the shove (why stop the game to give the ball to the team already with the ball?) and playing endless advantages before running back multiple metres for, yawn, yet another penalty, a kick and a set piece.
“Advantage over” is a ref’s call which needs to be made far more often in rugby. In one instance, the ref ran back 30 metres after several phases of play to award a scrum penalty to the Boks near their own goal line. Why? Let the game flow. Fewer penalties also mean fewer yellow and red cards, less disruption and game-ruining boredom.
You hope the World Cup is won by someone playing expansive, All Blacks-style rugby. The reality is that it will likely be a style which adheres far more closely to the straitjacket of the rules of the game. Time to change.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:44 pm
by LoveOfTheGame
Fuck me.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:44 pm
by sefton
Paul Lewis must think England are bang on certs to win the RWC.
Re: Springboks vs All Blacks in London Town.
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:48 pm
by Sandstorm
I was shocked about something at Twickers on Friday. Shocked.
Spoiler
Show
Kiwis are not cnuts!
It’s the first time I’ve been to a Test match between the Boks and ABs with real Kiwis in the stadium (gap-toothed Capies at Newlands don’t count) and they were really nice. Smiling and chatty before the match, but still friendly and gracious afterwards.
The last decade or so I’ve only been to Bok Tests against 6N teams (and the lovely Japanese of course) and although the Euros are decent, they’re not a patch on the Maori folk. Thank-you NZ people. Top evening out.
