The Scottish Politics Thread

[Tattie]

That’s staggering false equivalence.

The National nailed its colours to the mast from day one - it was setup purely as a pro-independence newspaper, a small attempt to try to balance the print media in Scotland which is pretty much totally pro-union. There is zero ambiguity, I find it hilarious that unionists have an issue with this when we have “quality broadsheets” like The Scotsman and local rags like the P&J which are essentially Tory mouthpieces. What I don’t understand is why one or more of these failing publications don’t think that continually backing the losing horse may be having an affect or their potential readership. The fact that they’re all London owned may have something to do with this i suppose.

Personally, I would love a totally politically unbiased print and broadcast media in Scotland but nae chance of that.

What a pile of shite the P&J is now a Tory mouthpiece, you clown

Nice. I live in Aberdeen and worked in media for over 10 years, the P&J is so pro Tory and anti independence/SNP it’s almost comical.

And dinna call me a clown you prick.

[Northern Lights]

The National nailed its colours to the mast from day one - it was setup purely as a pro-independence newspaper, a small attempt to try to balance the print media in Scotland which is pretty much totally pro-union. There is zero ambiguity, I find it hilarious that unionists have an issue with this when we have “quality broadsheets” like The Scotsman and local rags like the P&J which are essentially Tory mouthpieces. What I don’t understand is why one or more of these failing publications don’t think that continually backing the losing horse may be having an affect or their potential readership. The fact that they’re all London owned may have something to do with this i suppose.

Personally, I would love a totally politically unbiased print and broadcast media in Scotland but nae chance of that.

What a pile of shite the P&J is now a Tory mouthpiece, you clown

Nice. I live in Aberdeen and worked in media for over 10 years, the P&J is so pro Tory and anti independence/SNP it’s almost comical.

And dinna call me a clown you prick.

Aye very good and I’ve been here pretty much all my life and you think they’re all owned by London media when the P&J is owned by DC Thomson. So yeah you’re a .

Not to mention they give full page columns to Alex Bell and Campbell Gunn to push the Nat narrative every week.

[Tattie]

What a pile of shite the P&J is now a Tory mouthpiece, you clown

Nice. I live in Aberdeen and worked in media for over 10 years, the P&J is so pro Tory and anti independence/SNP it’s almost comical.

And dinna call me a clown you prick.

Aye very good and I’ve been here pretty much all my life and you think they’re all owned by London media when the P&J is owned by DC Thomson. So yeah you’re a .

Not to mention they give full page columns to Alex Bell and Campbell Gunn to push the Nat narrative every week.

I meant to say “mostly London owned” and by that I’m not being “anti English” before I get one of the usual lazy unionist accusations, more that they’re out of touch with what’s happening politically in Scotland.

I’ve lived in Aberdeen for over 36 years, what’s your point? Alex Bell oh aye, he’s fair pushing the Nat narrative nowadays.

[Northern Lights]

Nice. I live in Aberdeen and worked in media for over 10 years, the P&J is so pro Tory and anti independence/SNP it’s almost comical.

And dinna call me a clown you prick.

Aye very good and I’ve been here pretty much all my life and you think they’re all owned by London media when the P&J is owned by DC Thomson. So yeah you’re a .

Not to mention they give full page columns to Alex Bell and Campbell Gunn to push the Nat narrative every week.

I meant to say “mostly London owned” and by that I’m not being “anti English” before I get one of the usual lazy unionist accusations, more that they’re out of touch with what’s happening politically in Scotland.

I’ve lived in Aberdeen for over 36 years, what’s your point? Alex Bell oh aye, he’s fair pushing the Nat narrative nowadays.

Eh, that’s exactly what he’s doing. Oh sorry I forgot you can never criticise the snp or you’re not really Scottish For every article he highlights one of the many flaws in the snp he will write another 10 in support.

It’s you who started bragging about your time in media and the North East but you didn’t even seem to know who owned the local rag. The P&J is by no means perfect but to call it a Tory mouthpiece is pathetic. Now toddle off, another 36 years and ye micht ken fit a rowie is?

[Tattie]

Aye very good and I’ve been here pretty much all my life and you think they’re all owned by London media when the P&J is owned by DC Thomson. So yeah you’re a .

Not to mention they give full page columns to Alex Bell and Campbell Gunn to push the Nat narrative every week.

I meant to say “mostly London owned” and by that I’m not being “anti English” before I get one of the usual lazy unionist accusations, more that they’re out of touch with what’s happening politically in Scotland.

I’ve lived in Aberdeen for over 36 years, what’s your point? Alex Bell oh aye, he’s fair pushing the Nat narrative nowadays.

Eh, that’s exactly what he’s doing. Oh sorry I forgot you can never criticise the snp or you’re not really Scottish For every article he highlights one of the many flaws in the snp he will write another 10 in support.

It’s you who started bragging about your time in media and the North East but you didn’t even seem to know who owned the local rag. The P&J is by no means perfect but to call it a Tory mouthpiece is pathetic. Now toddle off, another 36 years and ye micht ken fit a rowie is?

Fuckin’ hell sleep it aff and you’ll feel better in the morning.

[Biffer]

Didn’t realise Nicola has decided that pubs and bars can’t play background music because people might have to lean in to speak... seems a little over the top!

On another note, I went out last night for the first time in central Edinburgh, it’s absolutely devastating what’s happing to the pubs and restaurants. What should have been the busiest week of the year and it was dead, just can’t see how anything is going to survive.

We are going out for lunch on Saturday and at the last minute realised we would have to book a table for drinks afterwards. I was astonished just how many well known places aren't even open, however the ones that are all seem to be fully booked.

Yup, huge number of places not open. Just looking in through windows I don’t think I saw a restaurant with more than 3 tables taken. Whighams had 2 people in it, pubs on Rose street open but deserted.

Really missing the festival actually

I’m really surprised the council didn’t close George Street and the Royal Mile and allow pubs and restaurants more outside tables. They’re both normally closed at this time of year and it’s not as if there’s a huge amount of traffic around.

[Biffer]

Aye very good and I’ve been here pretty much all my life and you think they’re all owned by London media when the P&J is owned by DC Thomson. So yeah you’re a .

Not to mention they give full page columns to Alex Bell and Campbell Gunn to push the Nat narrative every week.

I meant to say “mostly London owned” and by that I’m not being “anti English” before I get one of the usual lazy unionist accusations, more that they’re out of touch with what’s happening politically in Scotland.

I’ve lived in Aberdeen for over 36 years, what’s your point? Alex Bell oh aye, he’s fair pushing the Nat narrative nowadays.

Eh, that’s exactly what he’s doing. Oh sorry I forgot you can never criticise the snp or you’re not really Scottish For every article he highlights one of the many flaws in the snp he will write another 10 in support.

It’s you who started bragging about your time in media and the North East but you didn’t even seem to know who owned the local rag. The P&J is by no means perfect but to call it a Tory mouthpiece is pathetic. Now toddle off, another 36 years and ye micht ken fit a rowie is?

The National is laughably awful, but mirrors some of the massively anti independence trash that comes out of the other papers. You’ve got to accept the print media does not reflect public opinion on the matter of independence.

[Slick]

We are going out for lunch on Saturday and at the last minute realised we would have to book a table for drinks afterwards. I was astonished just how many well known places aren't even open, however the ones that are all seem to be fully booked.

Yup, huge number of places not open. Just looking in through windows I don’t think I saw a restaurant with more than 3 tables taken. Whighams had 2 people in it, pubs on Rose street open but deserted.

Really missing the festival actually

I’m really surprised the council didn’t close George Street and the Royal Mile and allow pubs and restaurants more outside tables. They’re both normally closed at this time of year and it’s not as if there’s a huge amount of traffic around.

I am as well, in fact I’m really quite pissed off about it. Seemed like a great chance to try a few different things but as far as I can see it’s all talk and no action - not a great surprise with Edinburgh Council but really disappointing.

Also bike lanes, I’ve seen a couple of half hearted attempts but what a great chance to try and change attitudes to transport in the city

[I like neeps]

It's also a load of nonsense that the SNP are allowed to have the National printing their shite day in, day out, similar to what RT does for Putin, they really have no shame.

Same with the Tories and the telegraph/mail no? Or the telegraph/mail/sun and brexit.

UK wide the press is absolutely crap. Journalism is just cheerleading whereever you look.

That’s staggering false equivalence.

Is it?

The National as others have said are openly pro independence. You read the national if you want pro independence news and opinion. If anything that's less insidious than what the more national papers do because they've unequivocally nailed their colours to the mast. I don't want to know about Scottish independence so I don't read the national.

[Yr Alban]

Same with the Tories and the telegraph/mail no? Or the telegraph/mail/sun and brexit.

UK wide the press is absolutely crap. Journalism is just cheerleading whereever you look.

That’s staggering false equivalence.

Is it?

The National as others have said are openly pro independence. You read the national if you want pro independence news and opinion. If anything that's less insidious than what the more national papers do because they've unequivocally nailed their colours to the mast. I don't want to know about Scottish independence so I don't read the national.

Every recent poll has shown in excess of 50% support for Indy. Like it or not, it's the majority view. And yet every single newspaper, the National excepted, and all of the broadcast media are relentlessly pro-Union. This is what happens when you don't have control of your own media (which pretty much every other devolved country does).

And NL thinks even that's too much and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to support the SNP.

(Yes, that's the SNP who are on course for a landslide victory at Holyrood next year).

[Tattie]

That’s staggering false equivalence.

Is it?

The National as others have said are openly pro independence. You read the national if you want pro independence news and opinion. If anything that's less insidious than what the more national papers do because they've unequivocally nailed their colours to the mast. I don't want to know about Scottish independence so I don't read the national.

Every recent poll has shown in excess of 50% support for Indy. Like it or not, it's the majority view. And yet every single newspaper, the National excepted, and all of the broadcast media are relentlessly pro-Union. This is what happens when you don't have control of your own media (which pretty much every other devolved country does).

And NL thinks even that's too much and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to support the SNP.

(Yes, that's the SNP who are on course for a landslide victory at Holyrood next year).

His earlier quote "It's also a load of nonsense that the SNP are allowed to have the National printing their shite day in, day out, similar to what RT does for Putin, they really have no shame." is hilarious considering *99% of print and broadcast media in Scotland is anti independence/SNP - yet one single, solitary newspaper which was set-up primarily as and stated so from the start, an independence supporting publication, is like Putin's Russia - mental. Is there any other country in the world where the political party which has been romping elections for over a decade and with growing support has such hostile and out of touch media. Can you imagine the polls if 99% of the media... or even 50% were neutral or pro-indy?

*Not the P&J according to NL as it gives column width to disgruntled ex SNP advisors with an axe to grind.

[Wylie Coyote]

Is it?

The National as others have said are openly pro independence. You read the national if you want pro independence news and opinion. If anything that's less insidious than what the more national papers do because they've unequivocally nailed their colours to the mast. I don't want to know about Scottish independence so I don't read the national.

Every recent poll has shown in excess of 50% support for Indy. Like it or not, it's the majority view. And yet every single newspaper, the National excepted, and all of the broadcast media are relentlessly pro-Union. This is what happens when you don't have control of your own media (which pretty much every other devolved country does).

And NL thinks even that's too much and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to support the SNP.

(Yes, that's the SNP who are on course for a landslide victory at Holyrood next year).

His earlier quote "It's also a load of nonsense that the SNP are allowed to have the National printing their shite day in, day out, similar to what RT does for Putin, they really have no shame." is hilarious considering *99% of print and broadcast media in Scotland is anti independence/SNP - yet one single, solitary newspaper which was set-up primarily as and stated so from the start, an independence supporting publication, is like Putin's Russia - mental. Is there any other country in the world where the political party which has been romping elections for over a decade and with growing support has such hostile and out of touch media. Can you imagine the polls if 99% of the media... or even 50% were neutral or pro-indy?

*Not the P&J according to NL as it gives column width to disgruntled ex SNP advisors with an axe to grind.

What percentage of the population read newspapers? The media today is far larger than just papers, but our broadcast media is very wary of crossing the SNP. See for instance BBC reporter Sarah Smith's grovelling apology, repeated several times, where she passingly referred to Sturgeon "enjoying" the pandemic in a live broadcast. Similarly see STV News running a video of children thanking Nicola for "working so hard and looking after them" during the pandemic. It's wider than that too, the entire Scottish establishment knows better than to cross the SNP, they are very much in their pocket. Even our so called rebels - I saw on twitter someone asking the simple question - after 13 years of the SNP in power in Holyrood, has any professional Scottish Comedian made jokes at their expense? I couldn't think of any, nor could twitter as far as I could see.

[clydecloggie]

Every recent poll has shown in excess of 50% support for Indy. Like it or not, it's the majority view. And yet every single newspaper, the National excepted, and all of the broadcast media are relentlessly pro-Union. This is what happens when you don't have control of your own media (which pretty much every other devolved country does).

And NL thinks even that's too much and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to support the SNP.

(Yes, that's the SNP who are on course for a landslide victory at Holyrood next year).

His earlier quote "It's also a load of nonsense that the SNP are allowed to have the National printing their shite day in, day out, similar to what RT does for Putin, they really have no shame." is hilarious considering *99% of print and broadcast media in Scotland is anti independence/SNP - yet one single, solitary newspaper which was set-up primarily as and stated so from the start, an independence supporting publication, is like Putin's Russia - mental. Is there any other country in the world where the political party which has been romping elections for over a decade and with growing support has such hostile and out of touch media. Can you imagine the polls if 99% of the media... or even 50% were neutral or pro-indy?

*Not the P&J according to NL as it gives column width to disgruntled ex SNP advisors with an axe to grind.

What percentage of the population read newspapers? The media today is far larger than just papers, but our broadcast media is very wary of crossing the SNP. See for instance BBC reporter Sarah Smith's grovelling apology, repeated several times, where she passingly referred to Sturgeon "enjoying" the pandemic in a live broadcast. Similarly see STV News running a video of children thanking Nicola for "working so hard and looking after them" during the pandemic. It's wider than that too, the entire Scottish establishment knows better than to cross the SNP, they are very much in their pocket. Even our so called rebels - I saw on twitter someone asking the simple question - after 13 years of the SNP in power in Holyrood, has any professional Scottish Comedian made jokes at their expense? I couldn't think of any, nor could twitter as far as I could see.

Kevin Bridges Live at the Referendum, spoiling his ballot paper by writing 'Nicola Sturgeon loves the boaby' on it? Hardly incisive political satire, granted...

And in the same show, him musing that Alex Salmond was only a Nat because he got a knockback from an English girl on a teenage holiday.

Not much since then.

Plenty of Jimmy Krankie stuff from poundshop Unionists though...

[Biffer]

Every recent poll has shown in excess of 50% support for Indy. Like it or not, it's the majority view. And yet every single newspaper, the National excepted, and all of the broadcast media are relentlessly pro-Union. This is what happens when you don't have control of your own media (which pretty much every other devolved country does).

And NL thinks even that's too much and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to support the SNP.

(Yes, that's the SNP who are on course for a landslide victory at Holyrood next year).

His earlier quote "It's also a load of nonsense that the SNP are allowed to have the National printing their shite day in, day out, similar to what RT does for Putin, they really have no shame." is hilarious considering *99% of print and broadcast media in Scotland is anti independence/SNP - yet one single, solitary newspaper which was set-up primarily as and stated so from the start, an independence supporting publication, is like Putin's Russia - mental. Is there any other country in the world where the political party which has been romping elections for over a decade and with growing support has such hostile and out of touch media. Can you imagine the polls if 99% of the media... or even 50% were neutral or pro-indy?

*Not the P&J according to NL as it gives column width to disgruntled ex SNP advisors with an axe to grind.

What percentage of the population read newspapers? The media today is far larger than just papers, but our broadcast media is very wary of crossing the SNP. See for instance BBC reporter Sarah Smith's grovelling apology, repeated several times, where she passingly referred to Sturgeon "enjoying" the pandemic in a live broadcast. Similarly see STV News running a video of children thanking Nicola for "working so hard and looking after them" during the pandemic. It's wider than that too, the entire Scottish establishment knows better than to cross the SNP, they are very much in their pocket. Even our so called rebels - I saw on twitter someone asking the simple question - after 13 years of the SNP in power in Holyrood, has any professional Scottish Comedian made jokes at their expense? I couldn't think of any, nor could twitter as far as I could see.

Sarah Smith was well out of order, that had to be challenged. The STV one was cringe as fuck though.

It’s not just about reading the papers though, they’re referenced on TV, social media and the headlines shout at you every time you’re in the supermarket. If they’re so unimportant, why are politicians so eager to get them on board?

I’ve seen plenty of comedians taking a pop at the SNP, usually at the fringe at live shows though.

And if for once the ‘establishment’ Isn’t falling in line with the Tories and doffing their caps to rich boys with private school accents, well I think that’s a good thing.

[Slick]

I think we can all probably acknowledge that there is a real undercurrent of fear amongst business, media, education etc etc to speak out against the SNP, the blowback is just too much for it to be done. It's really, really dangerous and I think the SNP should be doing more to moderate it. The argument I guess being, why should they, no other party would, which is a fair comment. In saying that, it's hardly conducive to the caring, sharing country they profess to want to create.

Frankly, it's a really shit part of living in Scotland.

I do think things are going to change a bit over the next few months. UK Gov are being more involved and bolder and that is going to encourage more people to come out and stand up. Interesting times.

[Slick]

On the Sarah Smith thing, in todays climate it probably was a silly thing to say. But should a journo saying something like that, which was based in some truth IMO, be castigated and vilified as she was in a normal society. I think not.

[Biffer]

On the Sarah Smith thing, in todays climate it probably was a silly thing to say. But should a journo saying something like that, which was based in some truth IMO, be castigated and vilified as she was in a normal society. I think not.

Come on. It's a pretty awful thing to say about someone that they're enjoying thousands of people dying. If you think Sturgeon is enjoying that then I don't really know what to say to you.

[Biffer]

I think we can all probably acknowledge that there is a real undercurrent of fear amongst business, media, education etc etc to speak out against the SNP, the blowback is just too much for it to be done. It's really, really dangerous and I think the SNP should be doing more to moderate it. The argument I guess being, why should they, no other party would, which is a fair comment. In saying that, it's hardly conducive to the caring, sharing country they profess to want to create.

Frankly, it's a really shit part of living in Scotland.

I do think things are going to change a bit over the next few months. UK Gov are being more involved and bolder and that is going to encourage more people to come out and stand up. Interesting times.

I can see what you're talking about in the first paragraph, but to take a slightly different view of it, that's part of the consumer driven market economy that most of these companies relentlessly push for. When you want that consumption led economy, consumer opinion is king and it's tough shit if it comes back to bite you in the arse because you didn't understand the implications.

[Wylie Coyote]

I think we can all probably acknowledge that there is a real undercurrent of fear amongst business, media, education etc etc to speak out against the SNP, the blowback is just too much for it to be done. It's really, really dangerous and I think the SNP should be doing more to moderate it. The argument I guess being, why should they, no other party would, which is a fair comment. In saying that, it's hardly conducive to the caring, sharing country they profess to want to create.

Frankly, it's a really shit part of living in Scotland.

I do think things are going to change a bit over the next few months. UK Gov are being more involved and bolder and that is going to encourage more people to come out and stand up. Interesting times.

I can see what you're talking about in the first paragraph, but to take a slightly different view of it, that's part of the consumer driven market economy that most of these companies relentlessly push for. When you want that consumption led economy, consumer opinion is king and it's tough shit if it comes back to bite you in the arse because you didn't understand the implications.

The Tories got 43% of the vote across the UK in 2019 (vs the SNP 45% in Scotland), but you don't see comedians, new presenters or even companies flinching from targeting them do you?

This brings to mind a research paper which asked different voters how they took criticism of their party. IIRC a majority of SNP voters took criticism of the SNP as a personal insult, significantly beyond that of any other party across the UK. For the Conservatives by comparison the figure was in the 10-20% range. That's the difference, it is almost something like a religion for too many people, and our media class as a whole know better than to cross them. It makes for a truncated effort to hold the Scottish Govt to account and is dangerous for Scottish society as a whole.

[Wylie Coyote]

On the Sarah Smith thing, in todays climate it probably was a silly thing to say. But should a journo saying something like that, which was based in some truth IMO, be castigated and vilified as she was in a normal society. I think not.

Come on. It's a pretty awful thing to say about someone that they're enjoying thousands of people dying. If you think Sturgeon is enjoying that then I don't really know what to say to you.

Here's the quote:

"But it has been obvious that Nicola Sturgeon has enjoyed the opportunity to set her own lockdown rules, not have to follow what is happening in England or other parts of the UK."

Do you still think your description is accurate?

[Biffer]

I think we can all probably acknowledge that there is a real undercurrent of fear amongst business, media, education etc etc to speak out against the SNP, the blowback is just too much for it to be done. It's really, really dangerous and I think the SNP should be doing more to moderate it. The argument I guess being, why should they, no other party would, which is a fair comment. In saying that, it's hardly conducive to the caring, sharing country they profess to want to create.

Frankly, it's a really shit part of living in Scotland.

I do think things are going to change a bit over the next few months. UK Gov are being more involved and bolder and that is going to encourage more people to come out and stand up. Interesting times.

I can see what you're talking about in the first paragraph, but to take a slightly different view of it, that's part of the consumer driven market economy that most of these companies relentlessly push for. When you want that consumption led economy, consumer opinion is king and it's tough shit if it comes back to bite you in the arse because you didn't understand the implications.

The Tories got 43% of the vote across the UK in 2019 (vs the SNP 45% in Scotland), but you don't see comedians, new presenters or even companies flinching from targeting them do you?

This brings to mind a research paper which asked different voters how they took criticism of their party. IIRC a majority of SNP voters took criticism of the SNP as a personal insult, significantly beyond that of any other party across the UK. For the Conservatives by comparison the figure was in the 10-20% range. That's the difference, it is almost something like a religion for too many people, and our media class as a whole know better than to cross them. It makes for a truncated effort to hold the Scottish Govt to account and is dangerous for Scottish society as a whole.

And that attitude is very much a reaction to the lack of proportionate representation in the media; there's a group of voters who got fed up with it so decided that if they weren't represented through traditional media, they'd make their own voices heard. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just looking at the way these things happen. What we're seeing with companies though is the loss of the ability to steer consumer opinion. Traditionally, to an extent they could mould that opinion, but they don't really know how to deal with current Scottish public opinion so they're only following. I'm not that worried about it because the SNP will splinter post independence. It's not going to turn us into some kind of autocratic state - that's more likely to happen under the current Tory party leadership IMO (although I think the checks and balances in the UK will probably stop it happening there as well).

[Biffer]

On the Sarah Smith thing, in todays climate it probably was a silly thing to say. But should a journo saying something like that, which was based in some truth IMO, be castigated and vilified as she was in a normal society. I think not.

Come on. It's a pretty awful thing to say about someone that they're enjoying thousands of people dying. If you think Sturgeon is enjoying that then I don't really know what to say to you.

Here's the quote:

"But it has been obvious that Nicola Sturgeon has enjoyed the opportunity to set her own lockdown rules, not have to follow what is happening in England or other parts of the UK."

Do you still think your description is accurate?

No, it's not, but any half way competent journalist will know that it's going to be interpreted that way. They're paid for their expertise with words, communication and opinion FFS.

[clydecloggie]

Come on. It's a pretty awful thing to say about someone that they're enjoying thousands of people dying. If you think Sturgeon is enjoying that then I don't really know what to say to you.

Here's the quote:

"But it has been obvious that Nicola Sturgeon has enjoyed the opportunity to set her own lockdown rules, not have to follow what is happening in England or other parts of the UK."

Do you still think your description is accurate?

No, it's not, but any half way competent journalist will know that it's going to be interpreted that way. They're paid for their expertise with words, communication and opinion FFS.

It was an unnecessary barb and par for the course for Sarah Smith, but I don't see how it required an apology.

[Slick]

On the Sarah Smith thing, in todays climate it probably was a silly thing to say. But should a journo saying something like that, which was based in some truth IMO, be castigated and vilified as she was in a normal society. I think not.

Come on. It's a pretty awful thing to say about someone that they're enjoying thousands of people dying. If you think Sturgeon is enjoying that then I don't really know what to say to you.

I don’t remember it exactly but I’m pretty sure than wasn’t the implication

Edit: seen the updates. It wasn’t

[Biffer]

Here's the quote:

"But it has been obvious that Nicola Sturgeon has enjoyed the opportunity to set her own lockdown rules, not have to follow what is happening in England or other parts of the UK."

Do you still think your description is accurate?

No, it's not, but any half way competent journalist will know that it's going to be interpreted that way. They're paid for their expertise with words, communication and opinion FFS.

It was an unnecessary barb and par for the course for Sarah Smith, but I don't see how it required an apology.

It's because the section of the SNP we're talking about have become so used to pile-ons by the press that they assumed that the rest of the media would pick it up and run with it if there wasn't an objection. Again, I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it's where they've ended up having only minimal representation in the print media.

[Slick]

I can see what you're talking about in the first paragraph, but to take a slightly different view of it, that's part of the consumer driven market economy that most of these companies relentlessly push for. When you want that consumption led economy, consumer opinion is king and it's tough shit if it comes back to bite you in the arse because you didn't understand the implications.

The Tories got 43% of the vote across the UK in 2019 (vs the SNP 45% in Scotland), but you don't see comedians, new presenters or even companies flinching from targeting them do you?

This brings to mind a research paper which asked different voters how they took criticism of their party. IIRC a majority of SNP voters took criticism of the SNP as a personal insult, significantly beyond that of any other party across the UK. For the Conservatives by comparison the figure was in the 10-20% range. That's the difference, it is almost something like a religion for too many people, and our media class as a whole know better than to cross them. It makes for a truncated effort to hold the Scottish Govt to account and is dangerous for Scottish society as a whole.

And that attitude is very much a reaction to the lack of proportionate representation in the media; there's a group of voters who got fed up with it so decided that if they weren't represented through traditional media, they'd make their own voices heard. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just looking at the way these things happen. What we're seeing with companies though is the loss of the ability to steer consumer opinion. Traditionally, to an extent they could mould that opinion, but they don't really know how to deal with current Scottish public opinion so they're only following. I'm not that worried about it because the SNP will splinter post independence. It's not going to turn us into some kind of autocratic state - that's more likely to happen under the current Tory party leadership IMO (although I think the checks and balances in the UK will probably stop it happening there as well).

I think that's a pretty narrow way of looking at it - risk of falling sales. Scotland's economy is pretty moribund but we have a huge amount of business talent here and across the world. Unfortunately hardly any of that talent is prepared to speak out or offer advice because the backlash of doing or saying the wrong thing is not worth it - business people are still attacked for voicing "no" opinions last time around.

[Northern Lights]

Is it?

The National as others have said are openly pro independence. You read the national if you want pro independence news and opinion. If anything that's less insidious than what the more national papers do because they've unequivocally nailed their colours to the mast. I don't want to know about Scottish independence so I don't read the national.

Every recent poll has shown in excess of 50% support for Indy. Like it or not, it's the majority view. And yet every single newspaper, the National excepted, and all of the broadcast media are relentlessly pro-Union. This is what happens when you don't have control of your own media (which pretty much every other devolved country does).

And NL thinks even that's too much and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to support the SNP.

(Yes, that's the SNP who are on course for a landslide victory at Holyrood next year).

His earlier quote "It's also a load of nonsense that the SNP are allowed to have the National printing their shite day in, day out, similar to what RT does for Putin, they really have no shame." is hilarious considering *99% of print and broadcast media in Scotland is anti independence/SNP - yet one single, solitary newspaper which was set-up primarily as and stated so from the start, an independence supporting publication, is like Putin's Russia - mental. Is there any other country in the world where the political party which has been romping elections for over a decade and with growing support has such hostile and out of touch media. Can you imagine the polls if 99% of the media... or even 50% were neutral or pro-indy?

*Not the P&J according to NL as it gives column width to disgruntled ex SNP advisors with an axe to grind.

So how many tory advisors does the P&J give a column to? It being a tory mouthpiece as you described it, it must be a lot!

The majority of print media in Scotland is neutral, you and the other nats on here wont accept that because that is not how you guys roll, unless you are religously onscript you are the enemy. The National is not a newspaper it is part of the propoganda machine like RT, that is its sole reason for existence, to keep the happy clappers inline.

[Northern Lights]

No, it's not, but any half way competent journalist will know that it's going to be interpreted that way. They're paid for their expertise with words, communication and opinion FFS.

It was an unnecessary barb and par for the course for Sarah Smith, but I don't see how it required an apology.

It's because the section of the SNP we're talking about have become so used to pile-ons by the press that they assumed that the rest of the media would pick it up and run with it if there wasn't an objection. Again, I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it's where they've ended up having only minimal representation in the print media.

I've read it all now, a nat complaining about a pile-on, that really takes the biscuit. The cyber dickheads that infest the SNP ranks are truly a sight to behold, very nasty pieces of work that Sturgeon does next to fuck all to reign in.

[Northern Lights]

Oh and I see the craven cowards down south have also U-turned on the results fiasco, after the rest of the devolved administrations caved, utter shambles all round. Williamson should fall on his sword, hope he does as he would at least leave with a modicum of respect unfortunately i suspect he wont. There really is zero leadership across the whole of the UK, I'm not surprised Sturgeon is doing so well in the polls, the tallest midget is still the tallest.

[Biffer]

It was an unnecessary barb and par for the course for Sarah Smith, but I don't see how it required an apology.

It's because the section of the SNP we're talking about have become so used to pile-ons by the press that they assumed that the rest of the media would pick it up and run with it if there wasn't an objection. Again, I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it's where they've ended up having only minimal representation in the print media.

I've read it all now, a nat complaining about a pile-on, that really takes the biscuit. The cyber dickheads that infest the SNP ranks are truly a sight to behold, very nasty pieces of work that Sturgeon does next to fuck all to reign in.

You’re coming over as pretty nasty yourself atm.

[Northern Lights]

It's because the section of the SNP we're talking about have become so used to pile-ons by the press that they assumed that the rest of the media would pick it up and run with it if there wasn't an objection. Again, I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it's where they've ended up having only minimal representation in the print media.

I've read it all now, a nat complaining about a pile-on, that really takes the biscuit. The cyber dickheads that infest the SNP ranks are truly a sight to behold, very nasty pieces of work that Sturgeon does next to fuck all to reign in.

You’re coming over as pretty nasty yourself atm.

Undoubtably. All the referendum has done is entrench positions, next to zero middle ground as the choice is binary.

Ruth has the right approach imo, fight fire with fire, being all reasonable has not done the Unionist cause any good at all as they continue to lose ground and fail to cut through with enough of their arguments.

On here this it’s pretty futile arguing back and forth as no one is sitting on the fence or going to change their voting intentions, no amount of evidence is going to shift posters opinions here.

[clydecloggie]

I've read it all now, a nat complaining about a pile-on, that really takes the biscuit. The cyber dickheads that infest the SNP ranks are truly a sight to behold, very nasty pieces of work that Sturgeon does next to fuck all to reign in.

You’re coming over as pretty nasty yourself atm.

Undoubtably. All the referendum has done is entrench positions, next to zero middle ground as the choice is binary.

Ruth has the right approach imo, fight fire with fire, being all reasonable has not done the Unionist cause any good at all as they continue to lose ground and fail to cut through with enough of their arguments.

On here this it’s pretty futile arguing back and forth as no one is sitting on the fence or going to change their voting intentions, no amount of evidence is going to shift posters opinions here.

Lady Tank Commander is undoubtedly feisty which a lot of Scots will respect her for. Her problem is the exact same that all the Better Together crowd has - shot in the back by friendly fire from Westminster eroding all the arguments that won them the 2016 referendum, she can only come across as a massive hypocrite now, defending Boris and Brexit. and the plunging Pound. They have nothing left but flag-waving, which is what they have always accused the Yes side of. It's just a different flag.

Perhaps the SNP are getting an easy ride, but for me that's because the Tory and Lab voices are so transparently hypocritical, staunchly defending policies and viewpoints that they themselves described as ludicrous only two years ago. It makes it too easy to frame everything as baseless "SNP baaaaad" because the leading BT voices have lost most of their credibility.

Folks like Massie bring a reasoned Unionist view, and he definitely doesn't seem to be excommunicated from 'the right circles' so I don't think we're in East Germany yet.

[Caley_Red]

The National nailed its colours to the mast from day one - it was setup purely as a pro-independence newspaper, a small attempt to try to balance the print media in Scotland which is pretty much totally pro-union. There is zero ambiguity, I find it hilarious that unionists have an issue with this when we have “quality broadsheets” like The Scotsman and local rags like the P&J which are essentially Tory mouthpieces. What I don’t understand is why one or more of these failing publications don’t think that continually backing the losing horse may be having an affect or their potential readership. The fact that they’re all London owned may have something to do with this i suppose.

Personally, I would love a totally politically unbiased print and broadcast media in Scotland but nae chance of that.

What a pile of shite the P&J is now a Tory mouthpiece, you clown

Nice. I live in Aberdeen and worked in media for over 10 years, the P&J is so pro Tory and anti independence/SNP it’s almost comical.

And dinna call me a clown you prick.

Your columns were articulate and informative, I'm sure.

[Biffer]

I've read it all now, a nat complaining about a pile-on, that really takes the biscuit. The cyber dickheads that infest the SNP ranks are truly a sight to behold, very nasty pieces of work that Sturgeon does next to fuck all to reign in.

You’re coming over as pretty nasty yourself atm.

Undoubtably. All the referendum has done is entrench positions, next to zero middle ground as the choice is binary.

Ruth has the right approach imo, fight fire with fire, being all reasonable has not done the Unionist cause any good at all as they continue to lose ground and fail to cut through with enough of their arguments.

On here this it’s pretty futile arguing back and forth as no one is sitting on the fence or going to change their voting intentions, no amount of evidence is going to shift posters opinions here.

Almost feels like you’re saying it’s someone else’s fault you’re coming over as nasty.

[Tattie]

What a pile of shite the P&J is now a Tory mouthpiece, you clown

Nice. I live in Aberdeen and worked in media for over 10 years, the P&J is so pro Tory and anti independence/SNP it’s almost comical.

And dinna call me a clown you prick.

Your columns were articulate and informative, I'm sure.

Thanks - I wasn’t a journalist, as you can tell.

[Northern Lights]

You’re coming over as pretty nasty yourself atm.

Undoubtably. All the referendum has done is entrench positions, next to zero middle ground as the choice is binary.

Ruth has the right approach imo, fight fire with fire, being all reasonable has not done the Unionist cause any good at all as they continue to lose ground and fail to cut through with enough of their arguments.

On here this it’s pretty futile arguing back and forth as no one is sitting on the fence or going to change their voting intentions, no amount of evidence is going to shift posters opinions here.

Almost feels like you’re saying it’s someone else’s fault you’re coming over as nasty.

Nope, not in the slightest unlike Nats i am happy to own it. Certainly feels like you are deflecting yet again though

[clydecloggie]

Fascinating presentation by John Curtice about the apparent change in independence polling. Loooooonng though.

[tc27]

Polling is pretty grim..I have to say I am not a fan of Panelbase and a weekly sample is somewhat suspect but still.

I take some solace in the fact that CV, Brexit and maybe even Boris will be in different places when/if another referendum takes place and the economic case for Indy is possibly even dodgier than 2014 and hasn't being examined yet.

[Northern Lights]

Polling is pretty grim..I have to say I am not a fan of Panelbase and a weekly sample is somewhat suspect but still.

I take some solace in the fact that CV, Brexit and maybe even Boris will be in different places when/if another referendum takes place and the economic case for Indy is possibly even dodgier than 2014 and hasn't being examined yet.

It is what it is, like Brexit it's a dumb idea but as Brexit proved it wont stop people voting for it. With the way the world has been fucked over by COVID it might actually be the time to do it, if we are doing it, we are in for years of pain anyway because of the various governments response to this.

Anecdotally friends up in Aberdeen are becoming increasingly exasperated by Sturgeon with the additional week of lockdown which i cant see it doing her much favours polling wise but we are a small part of the total population which is dominated by the central belt, so in her view likely expendable.

[Caley_Red]

Interesting views of Neil Oliver on Sturgeon's anti-free speech bill:

I think the bit that rhymes most true with me is actually not even about the bill itself (shocking though it is), it's the politicization of everything. I'm sure we can all recall that there was a time, not so long ago, where the vast majority of people didn't define themselves by their politics or cleave all issues into a binary political manner, nor did people routinely fall out over government policy and/or constitutional politics.

That's certainly not an exclusively Scottish problem but, having lived in a few other countries around the world, it's certainly the most pronounced there that I have experienced. In my view, it most likely stems from small-minded tribalism that's always existed in various forms (political and non-political) throughout the country, I never realised how tedious and stifling it all was until I moved away.

Anyway, I digress, anyone know how this bill is progressing? Likely to be welched or will it require another supreme court challenge?