NPR

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:13 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:52 am It's like some people think if we play Libbok against the world's best we become untouchable. It's like they think we'll score tries for free because he's there. It's like they think these other teams can't tackle and apply pressure. It's like they think rookie players like Libbok and Moodie wont crack under this pressure.

This is not the fokon Currie cup, you're not going to cut teams like Ireland, NZ and France up just because you picked players that can run. This is test rugby against the world's best where 3 points can win or lose you a game.

Spot on! As much as we all would love to see our backline running in tries.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:57 am**

Exit the group stages and every game is a final. Stormers supporters should know very well what happens when you bank on Libbok "cutting them up" in finals. I hate to do this but "I told you" guys, Libbok will disappoint you sooner or later. I just hope for our part my other " I told you so" moment does not happen.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:41 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:57 am Exit the group stages and every game is a final. Stormers supporters should know very well what happens when you bank on Libbok "cutting them up" in finals. I hate to do this but "I told you" guys, Libbok will disappoint you sooner or later. I just hope for our part my other " I told you so" moment does not happen.

No doubt Manie's confidence would have taken a knock after the Ireland game. I do worry you are putting too much hope on Pollard being the messiah though AJ, he has not played for the Boks for a very, very long time. He's obviously a class player, but we have no idea what his form is like at the moment. That's why it's so important to see how he goes against Tonga.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:46 am**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:41 am
average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:57 am Exit the group stages and every game is a final. Stormers supporters should know very well what happens when you bank on Libbok "cutting them up" in finals. I hate to do this but "I told you" guys, Libbok will disappoint you sooner or later. I just hope for our part my other " I told you so" moment does not happen.
No doubt Manie's confidence would have taken a knock after the Ireland game. I do worry you are putting too much hope on Pollard being the messiah though AJ, he has not played for the Boks for a very, very long time. He's obviously a class player, but we have no idea what his form is like at the moment. That's why it's so important to see how he goes against Tonga.

To me Handre Pollard is just a name. We need a kicker with a reasonable success rate and that's it, who that is does not matter. Pollard is just the obvious choice. Firstly, he's already there. Secondly, he's experienced. And thirdly he can make the kicks Libbok missed easily. Starting him against Tonga has risks. The posts on the Tonga thread are a bit tongue in cheek though. Obviously, the guy needs to play but does he really need a full match and risk being injured?

Yes, there are risks in everything, thing is we have sufficient cover for all the positions but 10. If Pollard sustains an injury, who's the next 10 off the line that can kick?

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:50 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:57 am Exit the group stages and every game is a final. Stormers supporters should know very well what happens when you bank on Libbok "cutting them up" in finals. I hate to do this but "I told you" guys, Libbok will disappoint you sooner or later. I just hope for our part my other " I told you so" moment does not happen.

The thing is, on a long enough timeline, any "I told you so" will eventually be correct when you bank on a player having a bad day. With inconsistent players like Libbok or Le Roux those days are more frequent than others for sure, but when they are on song, they create magic.

But in test matches, against the top tier teams, you have to go conservative. Manie will have to be the backup when Pollard is injured, or the be rotated in for the less risky matches...like Elton Jantjies was. He's just not going to have the space and time to create at this level and goal kicking is just too important in these tight matches.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:09 am**

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:50 am
average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:57 am Exit the group stages and every game is a final. Stormers supporters should know very well what happens when you bank on Libbok "cutting them up" in finals. I hate to do this but "I told you" guys, Libbok will disappoint you sooner or later. I just hope for our part my other " I told you so" moment does not happen.
The thing is, on a long enough timeline, any "I told you so" will eventually be correct when you bank on a player having a bad day. With inconsistent players like Libbok or Le Roux those days are more frequent than others for sure, but when they are on song, they create magic.

But in test matches, against the top tier teams, you have to go conservative. Manie will have to be the backup when Pollard is injured, or the be rotated in for the less risky matches...like Elton Jantjies was. He's just not going to have the space and time to create at this level and goal kicking is just too important in these tight matches.

My "I told you so" was banked on the fact that he's a shit kicker and that this was going to cost us in tight games, not on his consistency as a player. Rugby is a 15-man game, inconsistent players like le Roux can be caried by the rest of the team, in tight games a shit kicker can't. The team cannot be responsible to carry you as a kicker. It's up to you if you miss or hit.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:28 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:46 am
LoveOfTheGame wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:41 am
average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:57 am Exit the group stages and every game is a final. Stormers supporters should know very well what happens when you bank on Libbok "cutting them up" in finals. I hate to do this but "I told you" guys, Libbok will disappoint you sooner or later. I just hope for our part my other " I told you so" moment does not happen.
No doubt Manie's confidence would have taken a knock after the Ireland game. I do worry you are putting too much hope on Pollard being the messiah though AJ, he has not played for the Boks for a very, very long time. He's obviously a class player, but we have no idea what his form is like at the moment. That's why it's so important to see how he goes against Tonga.
To me Handre Pollard is just a name. We need a kicker with a reasonable success rate and that's it, who that is does not matter. Pollard is just the obvious choice. Firstly, he's already there. Secondly, he's experienced. And thirdly he can make the kicks Libbok missed easily. Starting him against Tonga has risks. The posts on the Tonga thread are a bit tongue in cheek though. Obviously, the guy needs to play but does he really need a full match and risk being injured?

Yes, there are risks in everything, thing is we have sufficient cover for all the positions but 10. If Pollard sustains an injury, who's the next 10 off the line that can kick?

Injuries are always a risk to all players, trying to cotton wool a player that is in desperate need of game time is not the way to go imho. The sooner he has a go the better, hopefully he goes well and gets up to speed asap. And it should be noted the Boks are playing with speed (on attack and defense), completely different to when he last played. That's no small thing.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:29 am**

Why the fuck hasn't Willie learned to kick for poles yet? He's 30+ and has had years to make himself into a useful kicker. Then we can have anyone we want at 10 and really use the backline the way we want to.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:51 pm I hope you lot don't cry yourselves dry when some Tongan idiot smashed Pollard in the back and he goes home injured.

Thats why I would play the same backline as against the Irish....let them get vokked up.

But as Boerewors said...Rassie is going to have the final say and thats it....

No point even debating it

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am**

It was never expected of him to kick at this level. He can kick though, don't know how consistent but why further develop a skill you're not asked to use?

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:38 am**

Oh my word...I am agreeing with AJ.....

I need to go lie down a bit

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:39 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am It was never expected of him to kick at this level. He can kick though, don't know how consistent but why further develop a skill you're not asked to use?

Someone should have asked him when Morne turned 55 and Elton went whoring. Coach fail.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:50 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am It was never expected of him to kick at this level. He can kick though, don't know how consistent but why further develop a skill you're not asked to use?

Probably better for him to develop a skill of catching the ball first anyway.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:50 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:39 am
average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am It was never expected of him to kick at this level. He can kick though, don't know how consistent but why further develop a skill you're not asked to use?
Someone should have asked him when Morne turned 55 and Elton went whoring. Coach fail.

Perhaps, they banked on Faf and Kolbe instead. Willie predominately played 10 as a youngster. The Cheetahs converted him into a wing, picked him as backup for Dusty Noble.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:40 pm**

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:09 am My "I told you so" was banked on the fact that he's a shit kicker and that this was going to cost us in tight games, not on his consistency as a player. Rugby is a 15-man game, inconsistent players like le Roux can be caried by the rest of the team, in tight games a shit kicker can't. The team cannot be responsible to carry you as a kicker. It's up to you if you miss or hit.

I agree with that, Manie's kicking is too erratic.

He has serious flaws in his technique and will need a year or two's worth of hard work to relearn everything and come back better like Monty and Elton did.
We can't carry him in big games. Another kicker will either need to step up, or he'll have to go into rotation for minnow games or when Pollard is off injured like Elton did.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:44 pm**

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:51 pm I hope you lot don't cry yourselves dry when some Tongan idiot smashed Pollard in the back and he goes home injured.
Thats why I would play the same backline as against the Irish....let them get vokked up.

But as Boerewors said...Rassie is going to have the final say and thats it....

No point even debating it

Pollard needs gametime Sards. He's only played 27-minutes of rugby for Leister since returning from the injury he sustained in May.
He hasn't played for the Boks since the 17-25 loss against Australia in August last year.

You want to throw him into the QF against France with practically no gametime and no exposure to some of the new attacking structures and defensive system changes we've introduced since he was last part of the setup? Brave man.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:59 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:44 pm
Sards wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:51 pm I hope you lot don't cry yourselves dry when some Tongan idiot smashed Pollard in the back and he goes home injured.
Thats why I would play the same backline as against the Irish....let them get vokked up.

But as Boerewors said...Rassie is going to have the final say and thats it....

No point even debating it
Pollard needs gametime Sards. He's only played 27-minutes of rugby for Leister since returning from the injury he sustained in May.
He hasn't played for the Boks since the 17-25 loss against Australia in August last year.

You want to throw him into the QF against France with practically no gametime and no exposure to some of the new attacking structures and defensive system changes we've introduced since he was last part of the setup? Brave man.

Eggman more like

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:37 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:44 pm
Sards wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:35 am
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:51 pm I hope you lot don't cry yourselves dry when some Tongan idiot smashed Pollard in the back and he goes home injured.
Thats why I would play the same backline as against the Irish....let them get vokked up.

But as Boerewors said...Rassie is going to have the final say and thats it....

No point even debating it
Pollard needs gametime Sards. He's only played 27-minutes of rugby for Leister since returning from the injury he sustained in May.
He hasn't played for the Boks since the 17-25 loss against Australia in August last year.

You want to throw him into the QF against France with practically no gametime and no exposure to some of the new attacking structures and defensive system changes we've introduced since he was last part of the setup? Brave man.

He should always have been part of the RWC squad.
4 scrumhalves...for what?
That's my argument. If he hadn't been told to vokkof to his club he would have been up to date with tactics and probably had a lot more game time in. Now we had to go through this entire drama that was completely unnecessary.
It's the same with hooker.
I think Rassie and Nienaber believe too much in multiskilled players instead of specialists. If anything is going to be our downfall this is it. Pure arrogance.
Ireland doesn't have multiskilled players like we supposedly do......and guess what.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:09 pm**

He was injured and unable to pass the fitness test by the time the squad was announced…just like Am and De Jager.

Unlike Am and De Jager he recovered, passed a fitness test and became eligible for selection a couple of weeks after the cut off.

He was always on the standby list. Historically we always pick up an injury or two at the World Cup. In 2019 in was Nyakane, in 2007 it was Jean de Villiers. There’s always been a plan to get Pollard into the mix via the back door.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:21 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:09 pm He was injured and unable to pass the fitness test by the time the squad was announced…just like Am and De Jager.

Unlike Am and De Jager he recovered, passed a fitness test and became eligible for selection a couple of weeks after the cut off.

He was always on the standby list. Historically we always pick up an injury or two at the World Cup. In 2019 in was Nyakane, in 2007 it was Jean de Villiers. There’s always been a plan to get Pollard into the mix via the back door.

Sorry I don't buy that .
We went through this Pollard debate over and over.
Pollard wasn't needed until he was needed.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:42 am**

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:21 pm
Blake wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:09 pm He was injured and unable to pass the fitness test by the time the squad was announced…just like Am and De Jager.

Unlike Am and De Jager he recovered, passed a fitness test and became eligible for selection a couple of weeks after the cut off.

He was always on the standby list. Historically we always pick up an injury or two at the World Cup. In 2019 in was Nyakane, in 2007 it was Jean de Villiers. There’s always been a plan to get Pollard into the mix via the back door.

Sorry I don't buy that .
We went through this Pollard debate over and over.
Pollard wasn't needed until he was needed.

You really are the Eggman sometimes Sards.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:52 am**

Nah. Call me the messiah.

I said France in the quarters
Said we needed Pollard. Everyone was like....nah...we have Libbok and Willemse....

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:54 am**

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:52 am Nah. Call me the messiah.

I said France in the quarters
Said we needed Pollard. Everyone was like....nah...we have Libbok and Willemse....

Flip, flop, flip, flop. Egg man. You criticize the Stormers critics on Manie. Now you do exactly the same.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:07 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:54 am
Sards wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:52 am Nah. Call me the messiah.

I said France in the quarters
Said we needed Pollard. Everyone was like....nah...we have Libbok and Willemse....
Flip, flop, flip, flop. Egg man. You criticize the Stormers critics on Manie. Now you do exactly the same.

Dude. Maybe I must translate my post into Afrikaans
for you

Hy moes altyd deel van die RWC-groep gewees het.
4 skrumskakels...vir wat?
Dis my argument. As hy nie vir sy klub aangesê is om te vokkof nie, sou hy op hoogte gewees het met taktiek en waarskynlik baie meer speeltyd in gehad het. Nou moes ons deur hierdie hele drama gaan wat heeltemal onnodig was.
Dit is dieselfde met haker.
Ek dink Rassie en Nienaber glo te veel in multivaardige spelers in plaas van spesialiste. As iets ons ondergang gaan wees, is dit dit. Pure arrogansie.
Ierland het nie veelvaardige spelers soos ons kwansuis het nie......en raai wat

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:28 am**

Wat is multi/veel vaardig?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:30 am**

Is Libbok Multi Vaardig?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:01 pm**

Now you understand

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:13 pm**

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:01 pm Now you understand

Kom Sards, ek het regtig gedink jy het bietjie Boer in jou.

Veelsydig.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:17 pm**

Ringrose must be versatile.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:25 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:13 pm
Sards wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:01 pm Now you understand
Kom Sards, ek het regtig gedink jy het bietjie Boer in jou.

Veelsydig.

Didn't even use chat vokken box or AI or whatever it is.
Just copied the text , pasted into the translate box en wooohla. Like magic

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:32 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:17 pm Ringrose must be versatile.

Man he has been impressive. A lot of those Irish lads we lost to are quality.
Really " gun " players , in my eldest's slang.
Man for Man they stood up. I have a lot of respect for that performance. And you could see the passion when they won.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:51 pm**

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:32 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:17 pm Ringrose must be versatile.
Man he has been impressive. A lot of those Irish lads we lost to are quality.
Really " gun " players , in my eldest's slang.
Man for Man they stood up. I have a lot of respect for that performance. And you could see the passion when they won.

Hugo Keenan must also be versatile.

Sards don't tell me you use translate to Boertaal. Dik swak.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:23 pm**

Canaan Moodie

“Life was good. We didn’t have much. We didn’t have a car to drive to training, and my parents weren’t rich. But we never had a victim mentality. That’s the one thing our parents made sure we never had.”

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:54 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:23 pm Canaan Moodie
“Life was good. We didn’t have much. We didn’t have a car to drive to training, and my parents weren’t rich. But we never had a victim mentality. That’s the one thing our parents made sure we never had.”

You can see in how he plays. Not afraid of anything.
I am hooked

Posted: **Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:24 pm**

With Mapimpi potentially out, who should we call up. Am, Lood, Dweba...?

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:28 am**

boere wors wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:24 pm With Mapimpi potentially out, who should we call up. Am, Lood, Dweba...?

We need a hooker, but Dweba isn't the answer.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:03 am**

Chilli wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:28 am
boere wors wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:24 pm With Mapimpi potentially out, who should we call up. Am, Lood, Dweba...?
We need a hooker, but Dweba isn't the answer.

Thats the coaches fault, not having really developed anyone beyond marx and bongi. Dweba is next in line, its him or no one for hooker.
But also, no matter who comes in, it would be a bit late now for them to walk into the match day squad for the knockout games with no match practise from the pool stage.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:34 am**

I suppose it goes for all....what is the update on Amm.

He could potentially walk into the squad without much time , like Pollard.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:48 am**

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:34 am I suppose it goes for all....what is the update on Amm.

He could potentially walk into the squad without much time , like Pollard.

Am has only been doing pre-season with the $harks, I think his match readiness would be of concern to Rassie.
At least Pollard has 30 minutes at Leicester and 50 minutes against Tonga behind him now.

Deon got man of the match so I think he's probably confirmed he's suitable bench cover.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:13 am**

Dunno why anyone worry about Deon Fourie. He was MOTM last night. His throws was much better then Dweba ever has and his defensive and breakdown work was level to Marx.

NPR

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