NPR

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:31 pm**

Before I jump in with two feet, can anyone offer a sensible explanation why a rapist, who was 17 at the time of the rape hasn't received jail time?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-65173054

"Judge Lord Lake told Hogg rape was "one of the most serious crimes" and noted the effect on his victim was likely to be "marked and long lasting", especially given her age and apparent vulnerability."

So on the face of it, at 16, you can join the army, get married, vote, the government want 16 year olds to be able to stand as MSPs but rape under the age of 25 and you won't get jailed and are " less culpable - less blameworthy" Really? I understand and sympathise wit an individual approach by the judges own words it was very serious:
"Judge Lord Lake told Hogg rape was "one of the most serious crimes" and noted the effect on his victim was likely to be "marked and long lasting", especially given her age and apparent vulnerability."

A 13 year old girl has had to go through hell, try and deal with it and four years later has to handle her rapist getting a slap on the wrist?

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:18 pm**

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:31 pm Before I jump in with two feet, can anyone offer a sensible explanation why a rapist, who was 17 at the time of the rape hasn't received jail time?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-65173054

"Judge Lord Lake told Hogg rape was "one of the most serious crimes" and noted the effect on his victim was likely to be "marked and long lasting", especially given her age and apparent vulnerability."

So on the face of it, at 16, you can join the army, get married, vote, the government want 16 year olds to be able to stand as MSPs but rape under the age of 25 and you won't get jailed and are " less culpable - less blameworthy" Really? I understand and sympathise wit an individual approach by the judges own words it was very serious:
"Judge Lord Lake told Hogg rape was "one of the most serious crimes" and noted the effect on his victim was likely to be "marked and long lasting", especially given her age and apparent vulnerability."

A 13 year old girl has had to go through hell, try and deal with it and four years later has to handle her rapist getting a slap on the wrist?

I don't think any of us know enough about the case to be able to comment but I would say there will certainly be elements that are not being reported accurately in order to to build up public outrage.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:00 am**

Murrell arrested

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:01 am**

Murrell arrested

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:45 am**

Blimey.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:50 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:01 am Murrell arrested

Been rumoured for a while that there was alleged criminal offences happening.

Of course an arrest doesn't always lead to conviction.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:57 am**

Although coincidental I'm sure, Murdo Fraser has a point that if Murrell had been lifted a month ago then Kate Forbes would be FM.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:02 am**

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:50 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:01 am Murrell arrested

Been rumoured for a while that there was alleged criminal offences happening.

Of course an arrest doesn't always lead to conviction.

Doesn't always lead to charges either, however it confirms he is strongly suspected of criminal offences.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:06 pm**

The real reason Sturgeon resigned I am guessing.

I guese we are going to be subjected to the ridiculous line that the CEO and leader of the party never discussed finances or membership numbers despite living together.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:27 pm**

Trump one day.
Mr Crankie the next.

Who's next ?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:00 pm**

Perhaps Peter buried the 600k in the garden whilst Nicola was out?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:10 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:00 pm

Perhaps Peter buried the 600k in the garden whilst Nicola was out?

This is getting weird.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm**

I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:28 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult

If I was a petty man I would dig up the post in this thread during Cakegate about needing independence to get away from 'the corrupt shit show down south'.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:32 pm**

inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:10 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:00 pm

Perhaps Peter buried the 600k in the garden whilst Nicola was out?
This is getting weird.

Who has Krankie buried in the garden?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:48 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult

There are striking similarities between staunch Snatzi's and the MAGA brigade in the US.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:49 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:28 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult
If I was a petty man I would dig up the post in this thread during Cakegate about needing independence to get away from 'the corrupt shit show down south'.

This will just be the tip of the iceberg as well.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:59 pm**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:48 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult
There are striking similarities between staunch Snatzi's and the MAGA brigade in the US.

Was having very similar thoughts today

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:09 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:28 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult
If I was a petty man I would dig up the post in this thread during Cakegate about needing independence to get away from 'the corrupt shit show down south'.

At least the Scottish police is investigating; let us know when the Bumblecunt is arrested & questioned over spending tax payers money on his pole dancing bimbo !

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:35 pm**

Also worth reminding you all that once an arrest is made in Scotland, contempt of court protections are triggered. So wild speculation and assertions have the potential to land you in a deal of trouble.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:36 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:09 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:28 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:19 pm I see the new thing on Twitter is to screen shot your donation to the SNP today to show you trust them with your money.

Not a cult
If I was a petty man I would dig up the post in this thread during Cakegate about needing independence to get away from 'the corrupt shit show down south'.
At least the Scottish police is investigating; let us know when the Bumblecunt is arrested & questioned over spending tax payers money on his pole dancing bimbo !

Or when arrests are made about some of the billions spaffed away to tory donors during covid

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm**

A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:37 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.

Yes that needs followed through.

The Tories are corrupt and get favours, but that doesn't detract from a fairly significant arrest.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:47 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.

Someone has been on Twitter today.

I used to get annoyed at this kind of deflection nonsense but it’s just laughable now as the walls cave in

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:52 pm**

The marriage between Sturgeon and Murrell has always been very interesting. Always wondered what was in it for him...

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:59 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.

The Met were clearly working on more important matters, like the two politically motivated investigation trying to confect a FPN against Starmer for having a curry. How many police hours were pissed away on those ?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:20 pm**

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:52 pm The marriage between Sturgeon and Murrell has always been very interesting. Always wondered what was in it for him...

Police were on way as she left allegedly. Would have been a useful day to be married to a lawyer.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:41 pm**

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:37 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.
Yes that needs followed through.

The Tories are corrupt and get favours, but that doesn't detract from a fairly significant arrest.

But we are different to them and so much better. Until we are different to them and then we want to be the same.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:55 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:35 pm Also worth reminding you all that once an arrest is made in Scotland, contempt of court protections are triggered. So wild speculation and assertions have the potential to land you in a deal of trouble.

It’s exactly the same in E&W. The Contempt of Court Act is UK-wide legislation.

Fair point though. I said the same on here when there was intemperate speculation and opinion on an English case (forget which one) and got a two-fingered salute. Oh well.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:05 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:47 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.
Someone has been on Twitter today.

I used to get annoyed at this kind of deflection nonsense but it’s just laughable now as the walls cave in

Hey, not deflection, as you well know I'm not the biggest of SNP fans. Just pointing out that an SNP administration which has control / authority over / however you want to put it of Police Scotland is being investigated by Police Scotland actively and vigorously, but the Police Force which reports to the tory controlled home office isn't investigating the Tory alleged fraud and corruption with any kind of similar vigour. Still think it's the same?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:39 pm**

Released without charge

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:41 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:35 pm Also worth reminding you all that once an arrest is made in Scotland, contempt of court protections are triggered. So wild speculation and assertions have the potential to land you in a deal of trouble.

That's not correct. Arrest is merely a police procedure. There can't be contempt until charges are brought before a court either by copy complaint or indictment. Everyone can speculate away to their hearts content.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:44 pm**

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:39 pm Released without charge

Doesn't mean anything. Questioned, released pending further investigation. They will now examine everything they have recovered during their searches and if necessary he will be arrested again, either for further questioning or charges to be brought.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:55 pm**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:44 pm
mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:39 pm Released without charge
Doesn't mean anything. Questioned, released pending further investigation. They will now examine everything they have recovered during their searches and if necessary he will be arrested again, either for further questioning or charges to be brought.

Thanks for the explainer

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:56 pm**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:41 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:35 pm Also worth reminding you all that once an arrest is made in Scotland, contempt of court protections are triggered. So wild speculation and assertions have the potential to land you in a deal of trouble.
That's not correct. Arrest is merely a police procedure. There can't be contempt until charges are brought before a court either by copy complaint or indictment. Everyone can speculate away to their hearts content.

It is right: see s.2(4) and sch. 1 Contempt of Court Act 1981 - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/49

The most relevant bit is in sch 1:

Subject to the following provisions of this Schedule, criminal proceedings are active from the relevant initial step specified in paragraph 4 or 4A until concluded as described in paragraph 5.
…
4. The initial steps of criminal proceedings are:—

(a) arrest without warrant;
…

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:06 pm**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:41 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:35 pm Also worth reminding you all that once an arrest is made in Scotland, contempt of court protections are triggered. So wild speculation and assertions have the potential to land you in a deal of trouble.
That's not correct. Arrest is merely a police procedure. There can't be contempt until charges are brought before a court either by copy complaint or indictment. Everyone can speculate away to their hearts content.

Scottish lawyer told me that so I'm still good with it, but you can test it and see what happena

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:07 pm**

Plim wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:56 pm
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:41 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:35 pm Also worth reminding you all that once an arrest is made in Scotland, contempt of court protections are triggered. So wild speculation and assertions have the potential to land you in a deal of trouble.
That's not correct. Arrest is merely a police procedure. There can't be contempt until charges are brought before a court either by copy complaint or indictment. Everyone can speculate away to their hearts content.
It is right: see s.2(4) and sch. 1 Contempt of Court Act 1981 - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/49

The most relevant bit is in sch 1:

Subject to the following provisions of this Schedule, criminal proceedings are active from the relevant initial step specified in paragraph 4 or 4A until concluded as described in paragraph 5.
…
4. The initial steps of criminal proceedings are:—

(a) arrest without warrant;
…

Thankee kindly sir

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:01 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:05 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:47 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:16 pm A reminder that it was nearly a year ago that Michelle Mone's house was raided by the cops and there's been nothing,no charges brought and she was given two weeks to flee the country rather than talk to the police. That was for £133million of everyone's money.
Someone has been on Twitter today.

I used to get annoyed at this kind of deflection nonsense but it’s just laughable now as the walls cave in
Hey, not deflection, as you well know I'm not the biggest of SNP fans. Just pointing out that an SNP administration which has control / authority over / however you want to put it of Police Scotland is being investigated by Police Scotland actively and vigorously, but the Police Force which reports to the tory controlled home office isn't investigating the Tory alleged fraud and corruption with any kind of similar vigour. Still think it's the same?

I know Biffer, and you are quite fair about these things, but so what? Folk want to bang on about how different we are and how independence would make us a fairer society etc, but when things are done differently the default position is to moan about how unfair it is that we are different to “them”

It’s just more mental gymnastics that you wouldn’t put up with if it was in the other direction

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:03 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:01 pm
Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:05 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:47 pm

Someone has been on Twitter today.

I used to get annoyed at this kind of deflection nonsense but it’s just laughable now as the walls cave in
Hey, not deflection, as you well know I'm not the biggest of SNP fans. Just pointing out that an SNP administration which has control / authority over / however you want to put it of Police Scotland is being investigated by Police Scotland actively and vigorously, but the Police Force which reports to the tory controlled home office isn't investigating the Tory alleged fraud and corruption with any kind of similar vigour. Still think it's the same?
I know Biffer, and you are quite fair about these things, but so what? Folk want to bang on about how different we are and how independence would make us a fairer society etc, but when things are done differently the default position is to moan about how unfair it is that we are different to “them”

It’s just more mental gymnastics that you wouldn’t put up with if it was in the other direction

The fundamental difference is that our police are investigating our government. The police down south are pretending there's nothing to see. Is that the same?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:42 pm**

I think people can judge the whattabouttery on its on merits.

I would also say the timing of the police investigation and this arrest seems strange. It could be a coincidence that came Sturgeon had time to resign and a friendly replacement leader could be installed before the investigation finally arrested Murrel. I would not normally indulge in conspiracy theories but today the police were digging up Sturgeons garden.

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