Slick wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:40 am
It was "front page news" for at a couple of days.
obviously i wasnt the only one who thought it was a bigger story than it apparenly was, here is the wiki entry if you're are actually interrested in what happened rather than just making snide remarks
Slick wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:40 am
It was "front page news" for at a couple of days.
obviously i wasnt the only one who thought it was a bigger story than it apparenly was, here is the wiki entry if you're are actually interrested in what happened rather than just making snide remarks
Slick wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:40 am
It was "front page news" for at a couple of days.
obviously i wasnt the only one who thought it was a bigger story than it apparenly was, here is the wiki entry if you're are actually interrested in what happened rather than just making snide remarks
Compare and contrast with the bombing campaign being plastered all over the front pages of the papers in the last couple of days (see here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cpml2v678pxt for example)
Was it news? Yes. Was it anything like this one? Absolutely not. This has been front page news for a few days. Absolutely no way could you say July 27th was at all the same.
Compare and contrast with the bombing campaign being plastered all over the front pages of the papers in the last couple of days (see here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cpml2v678pxt for example)
Was it news? Yes. Was it anything like this one? Absolutely not. This has been front page news for a few days. Absolutely no way could you say July 27th was at all the same.
"Yeah, fair enough, it was covered a bit more than I first suggested" would have done.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:23 pm
by Uncle fester
Heating up again so probably not good news for US Democrats and that might be part of the thinking for the main participants.
Compare and contrast with the bombing campaign being plastered all over the front pages of the papers in the last couple of days (see here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cpml2v678pxt for example)
Was it news? Yes. Was it anything like this one? Absolutely not. This has been front page news for a few days. Absolutely no way could you say July 27th was at all the same.
"Yeah, fair enough, it was covered a bit more than I first suggested" would have done.
But it wasn't, which is what those links prove? The claim was it was front page news for several days. It barely warranted a mention. The bombings on the other hand have been met with front page headlines. It's asinine to pretend the coverage is equivalent in any way, let alone pretend July 27th was hot news for several days
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:26 pm
by I like neeps
Imagine holding an ally who we wholeheartedly support to a higher standard than a terrorist group.
Israel repeatedly breaking international law is a problem because the west have created it and continue to (say) they uphold the system.
Not sure if they were alive or dead.
The stories of corpse desecration and abuse of physical and sexual nature are horrific
The story, from the little I've read, centres on the throwing of bodies from a rooftop.
In itself, not catastrophic. The issue is that this illustrates the callous disregard for Palestinians that we see from Israel. The deliberate and years long strategy of dehumanising Palestinians makes widespread death of civilians in pursuit of military targets palatable and the continued taking of land justifiable.
Not sure if they were alive or dead.
The stories of corpse desecration and abuse of physical and sexual nature are horrific
The story, from the little I've read, centres on the throwing of bodies from a rooftop.
In itself, not catastrophic. The issue is that this illustrates the callous disregard for Palestinians that we see from Israel. The deliberate and years long strategy of dehumanising Palestinians makes widespread death of civilians in pursuit of military targets palatable and the continued taking of land justifiable.
Not sure if they were alive or dead.
The stories of corpse desecration and abuse of physical and sexual nature are horrific
The story, from the little I've read, centres on the throwing of bodies from a rooftop.
In itself, not catastrophic. The issue is that this illustrates the callous disregard for Palestinians that we see from Israel. The deliberate and years long strategy of dehumanising Palestinians makes widespread death of civilians in pursuit of military targets palatable and the continued taking of land justifiable.
.
Some may say the Germa term Untermensch
I always flip back to a very awkward lunch, where we'd organized to meet with up with a Christian Arab girl that my colleague wanted to catch up with. As we were having lunch, a Jewish colleague walked by & saw us & we as usual asked her to have a seat as we chatted.
As part of the introductions my colleague mentioned that this young woman used to babysit his kids when he was living in Israel ....
I'll always remember her reaction; it was as if he'd just announced he left his kids with wolves, or Fred West !!!!
this was in the Left Bank. We all know the reality but this is Palestinian land, occupied by Israel in defiance of UN directives. Those here who support Israel query why some of us... apparently.... support the other side. It's this continuing injustice that irks me personally, the self portrayal of Israel as the victim while actually being an oppressor and occupier.
There's also the question of Hamas... I saw a clip from an Australian tv panel where a guest suggested that the vacuum occupying the space where support for Palestinians should sit is why Hamas exists. They are in a desperate situation and have been for years... so it's natural that someone should rise up and fight. The logical extension there is that to remove Hamas or the threat of a successor, you need somebody to step up and fight for the rights of Palestinians to live as free citizens on their own land... their basic human right.
I reckon a way through this would be a neutral occupying force that pushed the Israelis out, into their own land. Simplistic, for sure. Achievable? Not while widespread denial around the decades long actions of Israel is allowed to continue.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2024 12:14 pm
by Uncle fester
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:25 pm
Here's BBC coverage of the story...
this was in the Left Bank. We all know the reality but this is Palestinian land, occupied by Israel in defiance of UN directives. Those here who support Israel query why some of us... apparently.... support the other side. It's this continuing injustice that irks me personally, the self portrayal of Israel as the victim while actually being an oppressor and occupier.
There's also the question of Hamas... I saw a clip from an Australian tv panel where a guest suggested that the vacuum occupying the space where support for Palestinians should sit is why Hamas exists. They are in a desperate situation and have been for years... so it's natural that someone should rise up and fight. The logical extension there is that to remove Hamas or the threat of a successor, you need somebody to step up and fight for the rights of Palestinians to live as free citizens on their own land... their basic human right.
I reckon a way through this would be a neutral occupying force that pushed the Israelis out, into their own land. Simplistic, for sure. Achievable? Not while widespread denial around the decades long actions of Israel is allowed to continue.
Well yes the rise of Hamas coincides with the destruction of Arafat and his organisation. I put the blame for this fully at the feet of Sharon who instead of dealing with a flawed adversary, caused the rise of an even more intractable enemy.
There's a few ways this all ends:
1. The extermination of Palestinians, Australian-Aboriginal conflict style.
2. A deal where Israel makes actual concessions that will result in Israel no longer being a fully Jewish state, see Northern Ireland and/or South Africa.
3. They keep going as they are and run out of Western support similar to the way south Africa did. They'll be all for a deal when that happens but the Palestinians are going to be out for blood.
Compare and contrast with the bombing campaign being plastered all over the front pages of the papers in the last couple of days (see here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cpml2v678pxt for example)
Was it news? Yes. Was it anything like this one? Absolutely not. This has been front page news for a few days. Absolutely no way could you say July 27th was at all the same.
"Yeah, fair enough, it was covered a bit more than I first suggested" would have done.
But it wasn't, which is what those links prove? The claim was it was front page news for several days. It barely warranted a mention. The bombings on the other hand have been met with front page headlines. It's asinine to pretend the coverage is equivalent in any way, let alone pretend July 27th was hot news for several days
nice strawman, I never pretended it is equivalent. and it certainly was a bigger news story than your wiki linked stories, and yes, it was front page on the bbc website for several days, and in papers such as the sunday times and new york times and no doubt many others
"Yeah, fair enough, it was covered a bit more than I first suggested" would have done.
But it wasn't, which is what those links prove? The claim was it was front page news for several days. It barely warranted a mention. The bombings on the other hand have been met with front page headlines. It's asinine to pretend the coverage is equivalent in any way, let alone pretend July 27th was hot news for several days
nice strawman, I never pretended it is equivalent. and it certainly was a bigger news story than your wiki linked stories, and yes, it was front page on the bbc website for several days, and in papers such as the sunday times and new york times and no doubt many others
A side bar in the Sunday times and nothing on the others. Right. The new York times isn't a UK paper the last time I checked.
The whole point of this is that it clearly wasn't front page news, because no one except the times saw fit to even refer to it on the front page, and even the times just did a side bar. You can tell what front page news actually is - just check the headlines this week over the bombing campaign.
You made a claim not backed up by the facts. It happens.
But it wasn't, which is what those links prove? The claim was it was front page news for several days. It barely warranted a mention. The bombings on the other hand have been met with front page headlines. It's asinine to pretend the coverage is equivalent in any way, let alone pretend July 27th was hot news for several days
nice strawman, I never pretended it is equivalent. and it certainly was a bigger news story than your wiki linked stories, and yes, it was front page on the bbc website for several days, and in papers such as the sunday times and new york times and no doubt many others
A side bar in the Sunday times and nothing on the others. Right. The new York times isn't a UK paper the last time I checked.
The whole point of this is that it clearly wasn't front page news, because no one except the times saw fit to even refer to it on the front page, and even the times just did a side bar. You can tell what front page news actually is - just check the headlines this week over the bombing campaign.
You made a claim not backed up by the facts. It happens.
any others? you showed a small selection of england papers, mostly tabloids, inclding the sunday people. There are also non english people on this forum, and even some of the english people, maybe not you, read non uk media so not sure why you want to limit this to just the UK. ANyway, i retract my claim it was front page news despite it being on the front page of the print editions of the sunday times, new york times, and also the bbc website. it was still a big story for me and like Raggs i was surptised no one on here mentoined it at the time
nice strawman, I never pretended it is equivalent. and it certainly was a bigger news story than your wiki linked stories, and yes, it was front page on the bbc website for several days, and in papers such as the sunday times and new york times and no doubt many others
A side bar in the Sunday times and nothing on the others. Right. The new York times isn't a UK paper the last time I checked.
The whole point of this is that it clearly wasn't front page news, because no one except the times saw fit to even refer to it on the front page, and even the times just did a side bar. You can tell what front page news actually is - just check the headlines this week over the bombing campaign.
You made a claim not backed up by the facts. It happens.
any others? you showed a small selection of england papers, mostly tabloids, inclding the sunday people. There are also non english people on this forum, and even some of the english people, maybe not you, read non uk media so not sure why you want to limit this to just the UK. ANyway, i retract my claim it was front page news despite it being on the front page of the print editions of the sunday times, new york times, and also the bbc website. it was still a big story for me and like Raggs i was surptised no one on here mentoined it at the time
Did you or Raggs post about it?
Tbh if for instance I posted about civilians killed by Israeli rockets then I would be on here 24/7.
Btw I didn't even see the story you are outraged about.
What were your posts on the matter like?
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:26 am
by Wyndham Upalot
Merely an observation, it seems quite sad that we're lowering ourselves into an equivalence debate. The endless acts of barbarity from both sides is soul destroying. I did read about the rocket attack on the kids playing football on several news sites (and that's coming from a Grauniad subscriber ...), it's unfortunately been normalised into just another incident that adds to the toll of lives continuing to be lost in this conflict. I have no answers btw.
nice strawman, I never pretended it is equivalent. and it certainly was a bigger news story than your wiki linked stories, and yes, it was front page on the bbc website for several days, and in papers such as the sunday times and new york times and no doubt many others
A side bar in the Sunday times and nothing on the others. Right. The new York times isn't a UK paper the last time I checked.
The whole point of this is that it clearly wasn't front page news, because no one except the times saw fit to even refer to it on the front page, and even the times just did a side bar. You can tell what front page news actually is - just check the headlines this week over the bombing campaign.
You made a claim not backed up by the facts. It happens.
any others? you showed a small selection of england papers, mostly tabloids, inclding the sunday people. There are also non english people on this forum, and even some of the english people, maybe not you, read non uk media so not sure why you want to limit this to just the UK. ANyway, i retract my claim it was front page news despite it being on the front page of the print editions of the sunday times, new york times, and also the bbc website. it was still a big story for me and like Raggs i was surptised no one on here mentoined it at the time
The UK media is mostly tabloids.
As you can see from the comparison, the reason why no one mentioned on here is because it wasn't big news and was just another incident in a long line of extremely similar ones. In the UK it merited a front page sidebar mention in one paper. The bombing during the week has been plastered all over the headlines and represents something completely unexpected with dramatic consequences. Of course it's going to spark discussion.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:07 am
by JM2K6
Wyndham Upalot wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:26 am
Merely an observation, it seems quite sad that we're lowering ourselves into an equivalence debate. The endless acts of barbarity from both sides is soul destroying. I did read about the rocket attack on the kids playing football on several news sites (and that's coming from a Grauniad subscriber ...), it's unfortunately been normalised into just another incident that adds to the toll of lives continuing to be lost in this conflict. I have no answers btw.
Oh yeah, it was definitely reported on. Just not Big News (tm) like the supply chain IED attack is
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:06 am
by Uncle fester
Wyndham Upalot wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:26 am
Merely an observation, it seems quite sad that we're lowering ourselves into an equivalence debate. The endless acts of barbarity from both sides is soul destroying. I did read about the rocket attack on the kids playing football on several news sites (and that's coming from a Grauniad subscriber ...), it's unfortunately been normalised into just another incident that adds to the toll of lives continuing to be lost in this conflict. I have no answers btw.
Anybody demanding "both sides" condemnation all the time is not a serious person. It's a distraction tactic, nothing else.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:31 am
by epwc
Dunno what to say , which is why I stopped posting about specific incidents yonks ago. All I know is that no other nation on earth could get away with the shit they are.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 11:45 am
by dpedin
epwc wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:31 am
Dunno what to say , which is why I stopped posting about specific incidents yonks ago. All I know is that no other nation on earth could get away with the shit they are.
I'm with you epwc - I am just in despair about how humans can inflict such misery, harm and death on their fellow humans. There are no 'goodies' here - they have all gone over to the dark side and are revelling in the death and destruction they can wreak on innocent people. I have no answers either but it is clear that all of the parties involved are engaged in illegal and inhuman warfare and genocide that shows no sign or ending or being won by anyone. The fanatics on both sides see human lives as just collateral damage in their quest to eliminate the other ... all they are doing is building up greater resentment and motivation within their enemy ranks for future wars. I honestly despair at what might happen next!
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:33 pm
by epwc
Only one side is involved in genocidal acts
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 1:00 pm
by Slick
epwc wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:31 am
Dunno what to say , which is why I stopped posting about specific incidents yonks ago. All I know is that no other nation on earth could get away with the shit they are.
We did a pretty good job of getting away with shit in Iraq to be fair.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:44 pm
by epwc
Slick wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 1:00 pm
We did a pretty good job of getting away with shit in Iraq to be fair.
I guess, Afghanistan too
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:55 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
China, Russia, India and Pakistan, any number of factions in Africa, Somalia, Sudan and DRC perhaps the current standouts, Myanmar, North Korea... no shortage of regimes acting like arseholes and not really being impacted for it
epwc wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:31 am
Dunno what to say , which is why I stopped posting about specific incidents yonks ago. All I know is that no other nation on earth could get away with the shit they are.
We did a pretty good job of getting away with shit in Iraq to be fair.
Honestly there was more scrutiny and expectation that basic human rights were to be respected. Those prison guards, for example.
epwc wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:31 am
Dunno what to say , which is why I stopped posting about specific incidents yonks ago. All I know is that no other nation on earth could get away with the shit they are.
We did a pretty good job of getting away with shit in Iraq to be fair.
Honestly there was more scrutiny and expectation that basic human rights were to be respected. Those prison guards, for example.
We killed about 1/4 million civilians
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:41 pm
by Uncle fester
Yeah fück it. Don't know what point I had in my head there. You're quite right.
I see they've got a major Hezbollah head honcho today. Great news. Shame the hundreds of civilians killed will ensure recruitment to their ranks stays strong.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 5:26 pm
by epwc
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:55 pm
China, Russia, India and Pakistan, any number of factions in Africa, Somalia, Sudan and DRC perhaps the current standouts, Myanmar, North Korea... no shortage of regimes acting like arseholes and not really being impacted for it
None of those is seen by anyone except complete loons as morally defensible. Plenty of people jump to Israels defence
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 5:27 pm
by epwc
Uncle fester wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:41 pmI see they've got a major Hezbollah head honcho today. Great news. Shame the hundreds of civilians killed will ensure recruitment to their ranks stays strong.
For another couple of generations at least, maybe they're going to bring Lebanon into Israel too?
Uncle fester wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:41 pmI see they've got a major Hezbollah head honcho today. Great news. Shame the hundreds of civilians killed will ensure recruitment to their ranks stays strong.
For another couple of generations at least, maybe they're going to bring Lebanon into Israel too?
Nah, just turn half the country into a "buffer zone" and then wonder why so many people want to kill them.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:50 am
by Guy Smiley
Rogue state…
They’re off the leash, out of the park, full throttle no brakes
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 12:59 pm
by epwc
Nah, they’re just looking for peace
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 2:33 pm
by C69
epwc wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 12:59 pm
Nah, they’re just looking for peace