The Scottish Politics Thread

[inactionman]

I need to read up a bit more on this, I've not followed details but watched with great interest the recycling facility being built at my local Aldi.

Is the intent to essentially recover, clean, and re-use the bottles in the same way again? They'd surely need to be redesigned and differently manufactured to do this, although I suppose that's best done after the ability to recover and reuse is in place. I went to Copenhagen about 15 years ago where I first saw this plastic recycling in widespread action, and that's how it operated - there's a standard bottle size that all manufacturers use, and all that changed was the label. The plastic bottle was - obviously - a lot hardier than the single use type.

I'd think mass reuse of glass in this way would be a lot tricker, but suspect they'd just continue to crush it down and reuse the raw material - that process, along with the sheer weight of glass, has it's own environmental impact.

When I was a kid we used to take glass lemonade bottles back to the shop and get a deposit back on them.

I did the same - the milkman would also deliver lemonade and the improbably named Dandelion and Burdock and collect used bottles (both pop and milk, obviously).

Pubs also did it with beer bottles, and some breweries would continue to use bottles that were almost ground opaque

That all ultimately goes through a single manufacture and distribution chain - I'm not sure it works so well with multiple manufacturers, unless there's a requirement to standardise bottles.

More current practice is to sort by colour and crush down and re-manufacture - I'm sure we all remember the deadly glass recycling bins, where you'd drop your bottle in to hear it smash, and woe betide if it got a bit too full.

[inactionman]

It’s a stupid article by people who don’t understand it.

Almost the entire industry in Scotland is against it in its current form, but a tiny charity from Bristol says it’s fine

Greenpeace, Surfers Against Sewage and the Green Party are not a tiny charity from Bristol.

From the Times yesterday

"The letter to Jack, from Andrea Pozzi, managing director of C&C Tennent’s, insists that the company wants a UK-wide scheme, not just a Scottish version."

So they are not against the scheme, but they don't want a solely Scottish scheme, which is pretty much the thrust of the article ie that there could have been a UK-wide scheme as it was in the Tory manifesto in previous elections.

Unless I'm misreading, isn't there going to be a UK-wide scheme?

[Slick]

It’s a stupid article by people who don’t understand it.

Almost the entire industry in Scotland is against it in its current form, but a tiny charity from Bristol says it’s fine

Greenpeace, Surfers Against Sewage and the Green Party are not a tiny charity from Bristol.

From the Times yesterday

"The letter to Jack, from Andrea Pozzi, managing director of C&C Tennent’s, insists that the company wants a UK-wide scheme, not just a Scottish version."

So they are not against the scheme, but they don't want a solely Scottish scheme, which is pretty much the thrust of the article ie that there could have been a UK-wide scheme as it was in the Tory manifesto in previous elections.

Yes, which was totally misrepresented by Humza. I don’t think many in the industry are against a U.K. scheme but almost all are against the ill thought out and impossible to implement Scottish scheme. It’s idiotic and pointless posturing. If you want a scheme, it has to be U.K. wide so worn to make it happen

Edit: also, he said himself just a few weeks ago it couldn’t go ahead without a “radical change”, so where is that radical change that now makes it outrageous that anyone would block it?

[tc27]

Surely even the staunchest defender of Devolution can see the obvious benefit of a UK wide glass DRS scheme even if it means waiting a while longer? The simple logic of not requiring different regulations for 5% of the UK market are obviously quite appealing to producers. (particularly as the scheme seems to be make work for Lorna Slater).

[Tichtheid]

I need to read up a bit more on this, I've not followed details but watched with great interest the recycling facility being built at my local Aldi.

Is the intent to essentially recover, clean, and re-use the bottles in the same way again? They'd surely need to be redesigned and differently manufactured to do this, although I suppose that's best done after the ability to recover and reuse is in place. I went to Copenhagen about 15 years ago where I first saw this plastic recycling in widespread action, and that's how it operated - there's a standard bottle size that all manufacturers use, and all that changed was the label. The plastic bottle was - obviously - a lot hardier than the single use type.

I'd think mass reuse of glass in this way would be a lot tricker, but suspect they'd just continue to crush it down and reuse the raw material - that process, along with the sheer weight of glass, has it's own environmental impact.

When I was a kid we used to take glass lemonade bottles back to the shop and get a deposit back on them.

I did the same - the milkman would also deliver lemonade and the improbably named Dandelion and Burdock and collect used bottles (both pop and milk, obviously).

Pubs also did it with beer bottles, and some breweries would continue to use bottles that were almost ground opaque

That all ultimately goes through a single manufacture and distribution chain - I'm not sure it works so well with multiple manufacturers, unless there's a requirement to standardise bottles.

More current practice is to sort by colour and crush down and re-manufacture - I'm sure we all remember the deadly glass recycling bins, where you'd drop your bottle in to hear it smash, and woe betide if it got a bit too full.

I remember from somewhere that clear glass is newly made, but coloured glass is made from recycled bottles - that may or may not be true

I found a vid on DRS

[Tichtheid]

Surely even the staunchest defender of Devolution can see the obvious benefit of a UK wide glass DRS scheme even if it means waiting a while longer? The simple logic of not requiring different regulations for 5% of the UK market are obviously quite appealing to producers. (particularly as the scheme seems to be make work for Lorna Slater).

I'm not fully read up on the criticism of the scheme - whilst I can see the benefits of a UK-wide scheme I'm not sure what all the objections to the Scottish scheme are.

A quick google brought up the prospect of people crossing into England for cheaper drinks, which I think is nonsense - there is already minimum pricing on alcohol in Scotland and I'm not aware of Booze Cruises from Inverness to Carlisle and no one is going to Berwick from Edinburgh for a can of IrnBru.

There are costs involved with barcoding and there are always costs involved with signing up to a new scheme - are there other objections?

Also, how long is Scotland supposed to wait for Westminster to stop errr, kicking the can down the road?

A DRS was promised 2018, it's currently being promised for 2025 with no guarantee that it will happen then

[Slick]

Surely even the staunchest defender of Devolution can see the obvious benefit of a UK wide glass DRS scheme even if it means waiting a while longer? The simple logic of not requiring different regulations for 5% of the UK market are obviously quite appealing to producers. (particularly as the scheme seems to be make work for Lorna Slater).

I'm not fully read up on the criticism of the scheme - whilst I can see the benefits of a UK-wide scheme I'm not sure what all the objections to the Scottish scheme are.

A quick google brought up the prospect of people crossing into England for cheaper drinks, which I think is nonsense - there is already minimum pricing on alcohol in Scotland and I'm not aware of Booze Cruises from Inverness to Carlisle and no one is going to Berwick from Edinburgh for a can of IrnBru.

There are costs involved with barcoding and there are always costs involved with signing up to a new scheme - are there other objections?

Also, how long is Scotland supposed to wait for Westminster to stop errr, kicking the can down the road?

A DRS was promised 2018, it's currently being promised for 2025 with no guarantee that it will happen then

WTF?

[Tichtheid]

Surely even the staunchest defender of Devolution can see the obvious benefit of a UK wide glass DRS scheme even if it means waiting a while longer? The simple logic of not requiring different regulations for 5% of the UK market are obviously quite appealing to producers. (particularly as the scheme seems to be make work for Lorna Slater).

I'm not fully read up on the criticism of the scheme - whilst I can see the benefits of a UK-wide scheme I'm not sure what all the objections to the Scottish scheme are.

A quick google brought up the prospect of people crossing into England for cheaper drinks, which I think is nonsense - there is already minimum pricing on alcohol in Scotland and I'm not aware of Booze Cruises from Inverness to Carlisle and no one is going to Berwick from Edinburgh for a can of IrnBru.

There are costs involved with barcoding and there are always costs involved with signing up to a new scheme - are there other objections?

Also, how long is Scotland supposed to wait for Westminster to stop errr, kicking the can down the road?

A DRS was promised 2018, it's currently being promised for 2025 with no guarantee that it will happen then

WTF?

I'll give you the benefit of assuming that sort of reply was normal practice on the PR forum. I was under the impression this place was supposed to be different.

Just a few bullet points in a serious answer would do. I'm asking if I've missed what some of the objections are.

[inactionman]

I'm not fully read up on the criticism of the scheme - whilst I can see the benefits of a UK-wide scheme I'm not sure what all the objections to the Scottish scheme are.

A quick google brought up the prospect of people crossing into England for cheaper drinks, which I think is nonsense - there is already minimum pricing on alcohol in Scotland and I'm not aware of Booze Cruises from Inverness to Carlisle and no one is going to Berwick from Edinburgh for a can of IrnBru.

There are costs involved with barcoding and there are always costs involved with signing up to a new scheme - are there other objections?

Also, how long is Scotland supposed to wait for Westminster to stop errr, kicking the can down the road?

A DRS was promised 2018, it's currently being promised for 2025 with no guarantee that it will happen then

WTF?

I'll give you the benefit of assuming that sort of reply was normal practice on the PR forum. I was under the impression this place was supposed to be different.

Just a few bullet points in a serious answer would do. I'm asking if I've missed what some of the objections are.

Of the scheme itself, or the fact there's likely to be two schemes with one managed by a bolshie set of sods with a relatively miniscule market footprint? I'd not want to be a manufacturer caught up in that.

[Tichtheid]

WTF?

I'll give you the benefit of assuming that sort of reply was normal practice on the PR forum. I was under the impression this place was supposed to be different.

Just a few bullet points in a serious answer would do. I'm asking if I've missed what some of the objections are.

Of the scheme itself, or the fact there's likely to be two schemes with one managed by a bolshie set of sods with a relatively miniscule market footprint? I'd not want to be a manufacturer caught up in that.

Are you saying manufacturers would pull out of selling in Scotland because of this scheme?

[Tichtheid]

There is the letter from businesses to the previous FM here https://wsta.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2 ... on-DRS.pdf

It's still short on specifics, I understand that it will be about costs and time given up to complying with the scheme, which translates as more costs, but what I'm after is the nature of the costs, what are they?

[inactionman]

I'll give you the benefit of assuming that sort of reply was normal practice on the PR forum. I was under the impression this place was supposed to be different.

Just a few bullet points in a serious answer would do. I'm asking if I've missed what some of the objections are.

Of the scheme itself, or the fact there's likely to be two schemes with one managed by a bolshie set of sods with a relatively miniscule market footprint? I'd not want to be a manufacturer caught up in that.

Are you saying manufacturers would pull out of selling in Scotland because of this scheme?

No. I'm saying it will add undue cost and complexity, especially if (more correctly, when) there's significant divergence in policy/standard.

[Tichtheid]

Of the scheme itself, or the fact there's likely to be two schemes with one managed by a bolshie set of sods with a relatively miniscule market footprint? I'd not want to be a manufacturer caught up in that.

Are you saying manufacturers would pull out of selling in Scotland because of this scheme?

No. I'm saying it will add undue cost and complexity, especially if (more correctly, when) there's significant divergence in policy/standard.

Producers, retailers and hospitality businesses need to register with Circularity Scotland - the scheme administrator for DRS. They take care of everything else. https://circularityscotland.com

(From Scottish Grocer) Producers of plastics bottles will pay 2.21p per container, producers of aluminium cans will pay 2.03p per container and producers of glass will pay 4.1p per container - I assume the discrepancy is down to the cost of recycling these items

The costs would be there on a UK-wide scheme too, I suppose one could call it an environmental tax on business.

There is a goal of recycling 90% of containers sold in Scotland, I'd like to see a study or projection on what it costs to clean up all those containers at the moment - of course there will be a large proportion which are already in local council recycling schemes, but it might make for interesting reading especially if it could be calculated what it costs to clean up plastic etc from the sea.

I've seen more stories on the idea of drinks being smuggled into Scotland from England - does anyone think think this is going to be an issue? There is legislation attached to combat this and yes there is already a black market for cigarettes - but at a 20p markup per item, is it going to be at all worthwhile getting caught dealing in hot Coca Cola?

It could be argued that, for example, with the difference in business rates and rents for corner chops in the likes of Brighton compared to Perth, there is already a variance in the market in place in the UK

[inactionman]

Are you saying manufacturers would pull out of selling in Scotland because of this scheme?

No. I'm saying it will add undue cost and complexity, especially if (more correctly, when) there's significant divergence in policy/standard.

Producers, retailers and hospitality businesses need to register with Circularity Scotland - the scheme administrator for DRS. They take care of everything else. https://circularityscotland.com

(From Scottish Grocer) Producers of plastics bottles will pay 2.21p per container, producers of aluminium cans will pay 2.03p per container and producers of glass will pay 4.1p per container - I assume the discrepancy is down to the cost of recycling these items

The costs would be there on a UK-wide scheme too, I suppose one could call it an environmental tax on business.

There is a goal of recycling 90% of containers sold in Scotland, I'd like to see a study or projection on what it costs to clean up all those containers at the moment - of course there will be a large proportion which are already in local council recycling schemes, but it might make for interesting reading especially if it could be calculated what it costs to clean up plastic etc from the sea.

I've seen more stories on the idea of drinks being smuggled into Scotland from England - does anyone think think this is going to be an issue? There is legislation attached to combat this and yes there is already a black market for cigarettes - but at a 20p markup per item, is it going to be at all worthwhile getting caught dealing in hot Coca Cola?

It could be argued that, for example, with the difference in business rates and rents for corner chops in the likes of Brighton compared to Perth, there is already a variance in the market in place in the UK

There's still a need for a supplier, distributor or retailer to administer their end - all the things they need to do differently and there is a commercial, administrative and technical cost to that.

Plus changes to logistics, on-site facility, I'd argue probably the product itself.

I've no real philosophical issue with this, these changes are necessary and arguably long overdue (it's about time we looked at costs on the true societal/whole life cost, rather than just the literal production costs imparted upon the producer) but having two separate schemes benefits no-one. Of course, those producers, distributors etc with only a Scottish or English/Welsh footprint won't be directly impacted, but anyone operating in both jurisdictions will be. Your corner shop in Perth has one set of rates to worry about, not two. The likes of Sainsbury's aren't in that boat.

[Tichtheid]

No. I'm saying it will add undue cost and complexity, especially if (more correctly, when) there's significant divergence in policy/standard.

Producers, retailers and hospitality businesses need to register with Circularity Scotland - the scheme administrator for DRS. They take care of everything else. https://circularityscotland.com

(From Scottish Grocer) Producers of plastics bottles will pay 2.21p per container, producers of aluminium cans will pay 2.03p per container and producers of glass will pay 4.1p per container - I assume the discrepancy is down to the cost of recycling these items

The costs would be there on a UK-wide scheme too, I suppose one could call it an environmental tax on business.

There is a goal of recycling 90% of containers sold in Scotland, I'd like to see a study or projection on what it costs to clean up all those containers at the moment - of course there will be a large proportion which are already in local council recycling schemes, but it might make for interesting reading especially if it could be calculated what it costs to clean up plastic etc from the sea.

I've seen more stories on the idea of drinks being smuggled into Scotland from England - does anyone think think this is going to be an issue? There is legislation attached to combat this and yes there is already a black market for cigarettes - but at a 20p markup per item, is it going to be at all worthwhile getting caught dealing in hot Coca Cola?

It could be argued that, for example, with the difference in business rates and rents for corner chops in the likes of Brighton compared to Perth, there is already a variance in the market in place in the UK

There's still a need for a supplier, distributor or retailer to administer their end - all the things they need to do differently and there is a commercial, administrative and technical cost to that.

Plus changes to logistics, on-site facility, I'd argue probably the product itself.

I've no real philosophical issue with this, these changes are necessary and arguably long overdue (it's about time we looked at costs on the true societal/whole life cost, rather than just the literal production costs imparted upon the producer) but having two separate schemes benefits no-one. Of course, those producers, distributors etc with only a Scottish or English/Welsh footprint won't be directly impacted, but anyone operating in both jurisdictions will be. Your corner shop in Perth has one set of rates to worry about, not two. The likes of Sainsbury's aren't in that boat.

There is a bit on the Circularity Scotland site about what needs to be done by the producer and it doesn't look like much, eg new barcoding is not mandatory, but I wouldn't be surprised if it made so in the future.

Sainsbury's and other supermarkets already have differences across the UK in that promotional prices on alcohol aren't applied in Scotland or Norn Irn, or nothing like to the same extent - if you look up their offers online it often states that these prices don't apply in those parts of the UK

[Slick]

Producers, retailers and hospitality businesses need to register with Circularity Scotland - the scheme administrator for DRS. They take care of everything else. https://circularityscotland.com

(From Scottish Grocer) Producers of plastics bottles will pay 2.21p per container, producers of aluminium cans will pay 2.03p per container and producers of glass will pay 4.1p per container - I assume the discrepancy is down to the cost of recycling these items

The costs would be there on a UK-wide scheme too, I suppose one could call it an environmental tax on business.

There is a goal of recycling 90% of containers sold in Scotland, I'd like to see a study or projection on what it costs to clean up all those containers at the moment - of course there will be a large proportion which are already in local council recycling schemes, but it might make for interesting reading especially if it could be calculated what it costs to clean up plastic etc from the sea.

I've seen more stories on the idea of drinks being smuggled into Scotland from England - does anyone think think this is going to be an issue? There is legislation attached to combat this and yes there is already a black market for cigarettes - but at a 20p markup per item, is it going to be at all worthwhile getting caught dealing in hot Coca Cola?

It could be argued that, for example, with the difference in business rates and rents for corner chops in the likes of Brighton compared to Perth, there is already a variance in the market in place in the UK

There's still a need for a supplier, distributor or retailer to administer their end - all the things they need to do differently and there is a commercial, administrative and technical cost to that.

Plus changes to logistics, on-site facility, I'd argue probably the product itself.

I've no real philosophical issue with this, these changes are necessary and arguably long overdue (it's about time we looked at costs on the true societal/whole life cost, rather than just the literal production costs imparted upon the producer) but having two separate schemes benefits no-one. Of course, those producers, distributors etc with only a Scottish or English/Welsh footprint won't be directly impacted, but anyone operating in both jurisdictions will be. Your corner shop in Perth has one set of rates to worry about, not two. The likes of Sainsbury's aren't in that boat.

There is a bit on the Circularity Scotland site about what needs to be done by the producer and it doesn't look like much, eg new barcoding is not mandatory, but I wouldn't be surprised if it made so in the future.

Sainsbury's and other supermarkets already have differences across the UK in that promotional prices on alcohol aren't applied in Scotland or Norn Irn, or nothing like to the same extent - if you look up their offers online it often states that these prices don't apply in those parts of the UK

Zero Waste Scotland is a wholly Scottish Government funded organisation, Circularity Scotland is the organisation meant to be administering it. Unsurprisingly both think everything is fine. The scheme has had about 20% sign up and over 4000 companies who were obliged to sign up boycotting it.

[Tichtheid]

Zero Waste Scotland is a wholly Scottish Government funded organisation, Circularity Scotland is the organisation meant to be administering it. Unsurprisingly both think everything is fine. The scheme has had about 20% sign up and over 4000 companies who were obliged to sign up boycotting it.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but what I can't find is a detailed breakdown of just what the objections to the scheme are - goods coming into Scotland will still have the same costs to meet via the importer as they will be classified the same as a manufacturer, so the manufacturers in Scotland won't be at a disadvantage.

There will still be costs if the scheme was UK-wide, which is the scheme the businesses claim to support, lets be honest, business will always complain about any levy placed on them.

I've been slow in reading into the details of the scheme and the politics and economics surrounding it, I'm just starting to catch up now.

[Slick]

This guy is pretty good on it

[Blackmac]

Massive issues for small local shops. People in the likes of the borders will buy the majority of their single use items in the large supermarkets in the bigger towns. Are they going to drive all the way back with their empties, not a chance, they will go to the local corner shop who has no choice in taking the items and paying out huge sums of money in refunds for sales they haven't made. Huge logistic issues for them and CS have already changed the payment schedules from 30 days to 90. Where do they get that money.
In Midlothian we have superb kerbside recycling schemes which already exceed the recycling targets of the DRS. Same with the pub and restaurant industry, they already recycle far in excess of the DRS targets.

The main concerns seem to be from small brewers etc who maybe supply 30% to Scotland and the rest elsewhere. They just cannot justify the cost of producing different containers or labels for one market so have universally said it would not be worth their time selling in Scotland. I believe there was a suggestion that it could reduce the choices of such items by up to 60%.

[Tichtheid]

Before I read the two latest posts, something occurred to me when I was walking the dog just now.

The scheme is being funded by the levy mainly, but also the projected 10% shortfall in returns. Plus something they are calling "sales of materials" I have no idea what that is.

[Tichtheid]

Massive issues for small local shops. People in the likes of the borders will buy the majority of their single use items in the large supermarkets in the bigger towns. Are they going to drive all the way back with their empties, not a chance, they will go to the local corner shop who has no choice in taking the items and paying out huge sums of money in refunds for sales they haven't made. Huge logistic issues for them and CS have already changed the payment schedules from 30 days to 90. Where do they get that money.
In Midlothian we have superb kerbside recycling schemes which already exceed the recycling targets of the DRS. Same with the pub and restaurant industry, they already recycle far in excess of the DRS targets.

The main concerns seem to be from small brewers etc who maybe supply 30% to Scotland and the rest elsewhere. They just cannot justify the cost of producing different containers or labels for one market so have universally said it would not be worth their time selling in Scotland. I believe there was a suggestion that it could reduce the choices of such items by up to 60%.

The point about small shops and supermarkets applies whether the scheme is in Scotland or UK wide.

Small breweries don't have to produce different labels for Scotland - it states that on the administrator's website

[Blackmac]

Massive issues for small local shops. People in the likes of the borders will buy the majority of their single use items in the large supermarkets in the bigger towns. Are they going to drive all the way back with their empties, not a chance, they will go to the local corner shop who has no choice in taking the items and paying out huge sums of money in refunds for sales they haven't made. Huge logistic issues for them and CS have already changed the payment schedules from 30 days to 90. Where do they get that money.
In Midlothian we have superb kerbside recycling schemes which already exceed the recycling targets of the DRS. Same with the pub and restaurant industry, they already recycle far in excess of the DRS targets.

The main concerns seem to be from small brewers etc who maybe supply 30% to Scotland and the rest elsewhere. They just cannot justify the cost of producing different containers or labels for one market so have universally said it would not be worth their time selling in Scotland. I believe there was a suggestion that it could reduce the choices of such items by up to 60%.

The point about small shops and supermarkets applies whether the scheme is in Scotland or UK wide.

Small breweries don't have to produce different labels for Scotland - it states that on the administrator's website

That's one of the latest exclusions they were forced into. However it would now appear that items from these businesses cannot be included in the scheme which is an huge issue which wouldn't face a UK wide scheme.
The local shop issue is an obvious problem regardless of a Scottish or UK wide DRS, and one that needs exemptions for businesses below a certain threshold, however Slater has not been willing to recognise those problems and breenged on regardless. As people have said, we all recognise the need for a DRS scheme but we need someone that is competent enough to understand the more obvious issues, and Slater is not that person.

[Slick]

https://www.siba.co.uk/deposit-return-scheme-scotland/

Pre rapid backtracking but gives a view

The main point being it was incredibly poorly put together with little or no consultation with industry.

[Tichtheid]

Listening to concerns and changing the legislation on labelling* plus lowering the cost per unit (by 40% in the case of aluminium cans) is rabid backtracking?

I think that comes across as a rather partizan view.

edit I misread rapid as rabid, or did you change it? :-)


*the bar coding is supposed to make the scheme more secure and mitigate against items brought in across the border and into the Scottish market illicitly, so in effect would help the Scottish manufacturers in ensuring they are not put at a disadvantage.

I'm going to have to take a step backwards on this, I have been caught up in social media again and have become a lot less productive in what I want to do.

[Biffer]

Plus changes to logistics, on-site facility, I'd argue probably the product itself.

I'd really like you to explain how this scheme would lead to changes in the product itself. How is Tennents lager going to change as a result of this? i.e. the actual product, the lager.

[inactionman]

Plus changes to logistics, on-site facility, I'd argue probably the product itself.

I'd really like you to explain how this scheme would lead to changes in the product itself. How is Tennents lager going to change as a result of this? i.e. the actual product, the lager.

Unless you receive your booze through the kitchen tap, I'm clearly referring - and have directly and specifically referred - to the bottle. The thing you buy and put in your trolley.

It could be as simple as having additional markings on the labels, it could be that physical size/material need some reconsideration against the automated handling - I don't know, but I'd expect handling returned bottles is a lot more complex than handling well-packaged, cased and shrink-wrapped filled bottles. All have a cost, however.

[Biffer]

Plus changes to logistics, on-site facility, I'd argue probably the product itself.

I'd really like you to explain how this scheme would lead to changes in the product itself. How is Tennents lager going to change as a result of this? i.e. the actual product, the lager.

Unless you receive your booze through the kitchen tap, I'm clearly referring - and have directly and specifically referred - to the bottle. The thing you buy and put in your trolley.

It could be as simple as having additional markings on the labels, it could be that physical size/material need some reconsideration against the automated handling - I don't know, but I'd expect handling returned bottles is a lot more complex than handling well-packaged, cased and shrink-wrapped filled bottles. All have a cost, however.

I would have said that's the packaging not the product. I don't buy beer for the cans or the bottles. But if that's what you meant, fair enough.

[inactionman]

I'd really like you to explain how this scheme would lead to changes in the product itself. How is Tennents lager going to change as a result of this? i.e. the actual product, the lager.

Unless you receive your booze through the kitchen tap, I'm clearly referring - and have directly and specifically referred - to the bottle. The thing you buy and put in your trolley.

It could be as simple as having additional markings on the labels, it could be that physical size/material need some reconsideration against the automated handling - I don't know, but I'd expect handling returned bottles is a lot more complex than handling well-packaged, cased and shrink-wrapped filled bottles. All have a cost, however.

I would have said that's the packaging not the product. I don't buy beer for the cans or the bottles. But if that's what you meant, fair enough.

I think the manufacturer would consider it part of their product, which is the context I was intending.

No idea what scale of changes would need to be, but I'd expect some changes would need to be made - not that I'm criticising that particular aspect, to be honest a standardisation so we can reuse is a good thing, just that having two separate schemes in what is (again, to manufacturers' perspective) a single market isn't ideal.

(Of course, no reason that the two schemes can't opt for identical standards, and in any sane world they would, but divergence is a risk)

[Sandstorm]

If the UK standardises beer bottles can the same crew ensure that they all come with a fucking screw top please!!!

[Blackmac]

In addition to the £280 million already spent on the DRS, I see the trade industries are now looking for that amount again in compensation for all the money they have spent.

In more good news a report commissioned by the SG has concluded that the skills and training facilities in the country are not fit for purpose.

It's actually constant. Nothing in this country ever seems to work right. You actually could not make up how fucking useless the SG are.

[tc27]

Sturgeon nicked

[C69]

Sturgeon nicked

Well feck me

[I like neeps]

Wow what a bombshell but I guess expected really.

Power corrupts us all eh, allegedly

[C69]

Wow what a bombshell but I guess expected really.

Power corrupts us all eh, allegedly

Absolutely

[tc27]

Its being likely for a while looking at who else has being nicked.
Was nice of Police Scotland to allow the SNP to elect a new leader before they started questioning the old leadership.

[Slick]

Wow what a bombshell but I guess expected really.

Power corrupts us all eh, allegedly

I think you’ll find if you look at social media that she is innocent. No one knows what she is being specifically questioned about but whatever it is she is innocent. Even some MSP’s jumping on that.

[fishfoodie]

Wow what a bombshell but I guess expected really.

Power corrupts us all eh, allegedly

I think you’ll find if you look at social media that she is innocent. No one knows what she is being specifically questioned about but whatever it is she is innocent. Even some MSP’s jumping on that.

You don't believe in the presumption of innocence then ?

She may be guilty, or innocent, but she just gets the same presumption, & the same treatment before she is questioned.

[Line6 HXFX]

She struck me as someone all about Public duty, public service all her life, and of someone who didn't give two shits about cash.

Wasn't Alex Salmond arrested charged and acquitted on a bunch of bullshit too?

Humza Yousaf next I guess.

Well done pigdogs.

[Slick]

Wow what a bombshell but I guess expected really.

Power corrupts us all eh, allegedly

I think you’ll find if you look at social media that she is innocent. No one knows what she is being specifically questioned about but whatever it is she is innocent. Even some MSP’s jumping on that.

You don't believe in the presumption of innocence then ?

She may be guilty, or innocent, but she just gets the same presumption, & the same treatment before she is questioned.

You are being deliberately obtuse

[Tichtheid]