Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Lobby]

A Tory MP has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

They don’t change do they. I remember when Lord Gowrie was offered the post of Secretary of State for Education in 1985 by Thatcher, but turned it down because he said that it was impossible to live in London on a Minister’s salary of £33,000 a year. This was at a time when the average salary in the UK was around £8,800, and the average salary in London was £10,000.

[tabascoboy]

A Tory MP has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

They don’t change do they. I remember when Lord Gowrie was offered the post of Secretary of State for Education in 1985 by Thatcher, but turned it down because he said that it was impossible to live in London on a Minister’s salary of £33,000 a year. This was at a time when the average salary in the UK was around £8,800, and the average salary in London was £10,000.

Maybe they need to start retraining quickly for one of those "High-Wage, High-Skill" jobs in our shiny new Britain, the one where everyone is a rocket engineer...

[Paddington Bear]

Politically standing up for high wages when inflation is about to kick in, there are shortages everywhere and the cost of everyday goods is going through the roof seems ambitious

[I like neeps]

A Tory MP has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

They don’t change do they. I remember when Lord Gowrie was offered the post of Secretary of State for Education in 1985 by Thatcher, but turned it down because he said that it was impossible to live in London on a Minister’s salary of £33,000 a year. This was at a time when the average salary in the UK was around £8,800, and the average salary in London was £10,000.

Doesn't even make sense:

"Doctors are paid far too little nowadays. But if they would get roughly £100,000 a year, the equivalent for an MP to get the same standard of living would be £110-£115,000 a year – it’s never the right time, but if your MP isn’t worth the money, it’s better to change the MP than to change the money.’"

MPs should make roughly the same as a hypothetical figure for doctors who are underpaid (because of our party choosing to underfund healthcare) but actually should more than these hypothetical fairly compensated doctors? What?

80k puts you in the top 10% of earners in the UK.

[Lobby]

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

They don’t change do they. I remember when Lord Gowrie was offered the post of Secretary of State for Education in 1985 by Thatcher, but turned it down because he said that it was impossible to live in London on a Minister’s salary of £33,000 a year. This was at a time when the average salary in the UK was around £8,800, and the average salary in London was £10,000.

Doesn't even make sense:

"Doctors are paid far too little nowadays. But if they would get roughly £100,000 a year, the equivalent for an MP to get the same standard of living would be £110-£115,000 a year – it’s never the right time, but if your MP isn’t worth the money, it’s better to change the MP than to change the money.’"

MPs should make roughly the same as a hypothetical figure for doctors who are underpaid (because of our party choosing to underfund healthcare) but actually should more than these hypothetical fairly compensated doctors? What?

80k puts you in the top 10% of earners in the UK.

I think £80k puts you closer to the top 5% in the UK. You only need about £65k to be in the top 10%.

[tabascoboy]

Pretty rich isn't it when many of the people they represent have little choice but to become gig workers on low pay and very little job security unlike those guaranteed 5 years in post at a minimum of £80 000 a year ( plus generous pension rights ). You have to pretty much be imprisoned or die now before being forced to stand down as an MP.

[tc27]

The ideology of the Tories/Brexit supporters is basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK, and at a minimum immigrants must fuck off.

Think this is miles off...sure people like that probably all voted for Brexit and Conservative/Farage-vehicle but they probably represent a tiny percentage of those voters let alone the general population. Its emotionally satisfying to pigeonhole people who vote in a way you don't like in this way but not at all constructive.

Yeah well, study after study has shown that immigration was the primary reason people voted Leave, with "not wanting to have to follow the EU's laws" as the second most popular reason. Those with more nuanced approaches to voting Leave are the tiny percentage.

Not sure what your point is here? Being opposed to immigration is not the same as having an ideology that "the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK".

[Paddington Bear]

Pretty compelling amount of evidence that a lot of leave voters actively welcome Britain shuffling off the world stage to focus on home. Not for nothing that 'Little Englander' got revived to insult them

[Tichtheid]

Politically standing up for high wages when inflation is about to kick in, there are shortages everywhere and the cost of everyday goods is going through the roof seems ambitious

The inflationary aspect of this "high wage, high skills" schtick has me puzzled, I have to admit.

[shaggy]

Pretty compelling amount of evidence that a lot of leave voters actively welcome Britain shuffling off the world stage to focus on home. Not for nothing that 'Little Englander' got revived to insult them

I have never truly understood the term as an insult. Not wanting to project beyond the capability seems a fair position to hold whereas projecting yourself beyond your capacity is more dangerous. Plus this leaves a situation where Brexiters are accused of both being Little Englanders and deluded people hankering after the Empire.

[JM2K6]

Think this is miles off...sure people like that probably all voted for Brexit and Conservative/Farage-vehicle but they probably represent a tiny percentage of those voters let alone the general population. Its emotionally satisfying to pigeonhole people who vote in a way you don't like in this way but not at all constructive.

Yeah well, study after study has shown that immigration was the primary reason people voted Leave, with "not wanting to have to follow the EU's laws" as the second most popular reason. Those with more nuanced approaches to voting Leave are the tiny percentage.

I remember having a very long drawn out discussion with you where you said that Brexit definitely didn't have anything to do with immigration

Oh yeah? I don't remember that, but chances are we were talking about immigration as it actually is vs the demonising of immigrants from Farage et al - I don't believe I've ever said that the decades-long fact-light campaign against immigrants from the media & the likes of Farage didn't have a huge impact. Vote Leave made anti-immigration a core part of their campaign, I can't imagine I'd have said otherwise.

[JM2K6]

Think this is miles off...sure people like that probably all voted for Brexit and Conservative/Farage-vehicle but they probably represent a tiny percentage of those voters let alone the general population. Its emotionally satisfying to pigeonhole people who vote in a way you don't like in this way but not at all constructive.

Yeah well, study after study has shown that immigration was the primary reason people voted Leave, with "not wanting to have to follow the EU's laws" as the second most popular reason. Those with more nuanced approaches to voting Leave are the tiny percentage.

Not sure what your point is here? Being opposed to immigration is not the same as having an ideology that "the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK".

The post you said was "miles off" had two parts.

1) basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK
2) at a minimum immigrants must fuck off

I pointed out that the studies show that anti-immigration was reason #1, with "not wanting to follow the EU's laws" being reason #2. Why you've chosen to 'forget' that anti-immigration was a core part of the post you disagreed with I don't know, but it's there.

Not wanting to follow the EU's laws does have some ties to believing the UK is superior and a superpower - we are big enough and strong enough to survive on our own, we'll thrive without them, the EU is what's been holding us back, etc etc

[JM2K6]

Pretty compelling amount of evidence that a lot of leave voters actively welcome Britain shuffling off the world stage to focus on home. Not for nothing that 'Little Englander' got revived to insult them

I have never truly understood the term as an insult. Not wanting to project beyond the capability seems a fair position to hold whereas projecting yourself beyond your capacity is more dangerous. Plus this leaves a situation where Brexiters are accused of both being Little Englanders and deluded people hankering after the Empire.

The modern meaning of the term is essentially akin to English Supremacist (woo, go Refry!), i.e. the belief that England is better than all other countries and we should only deal with other countries & non-English people if it benefits us directly

[Paddington Bear]

Pretty compelling amount of evidence that a lot of leave voters actively welcome Britain shuffling off the world stage to focus on home. Not for nothing that 'Little Englander' got revived to insult them

I have never truly understood the term as an insult. Not wanting to project beyond the capability seems a fair position to hold whereas projecting yourself beyond your capacity is more dangerous. Plus this leaves a situation where Brexiters are accused of both being Little Englanders and deluded people hankering after the Empire.

Which has always been amusing given it's origins as a pejorative for people who didn't buy into the Imperial project.

[Calculon]

Pretty compelling amount of evidence that a lot of leave voters actively welcome Britain shuffling off the world stage to focus on home. Not for nothing that 'Little Englander' got revived to insult them

I have never truly understood the term as an insult. Not wanting to project beyond the capability seems a fair position to hold whereas projecting yourself beyond your capacity is more dangerous. Plus this leaves a situation where Brexiters are accused of both being Little Englanders and deluded people hankering after the Empire.

Whatever the original meaning of the word it now refers to a type of xenophobic English nationalist. With regards to the brexit vote I have several friends who voted leave as a fuck you to the twat Cameron/establishment and nothing to do with the EU. I also know of British Asians who voted leave because they thought it would increase immigration from the sub continent (while limiting white immigration from Eastern Europe).

[dpedin]

Little Englander for me is a pejorative term and describes the xenophobic and jingoistic type of Brexit voter who believes that England still has an empire to speak of and can stand on its own two feet regardless of what the modern world throws at them. The ones who believe England won both world wars all by themselves and Douglas Bader won the Battle of Britain single handedly in his spitfire. As one ex Uni lecturer said to me in the late 70's 'some folk think Johnny Foreigners' start at Marseilles, Little Englanders think they start at Dover'.

[Paddington Bear]

These people exist but not in the numbers I think we pretend they do. The idea that half the country is sat around wishing on a fallen Empire has no basis in evidence and fails to account for the voter I mentioned - one who heard warnings of declining British influence and thought 'good!'.
Plenty more people want to retire to their hobbit hole than send gunboats down the Yangtze.

[tabascoboy]

Little Englander for me is a pejorative term and describes the xenophobic and jingoistic type of Brexit voter who believes that England still has an empire to speak of and can stand on its own two feet regardless of what the modern world throws at them. The ones who believe England won both world wars all by themselves and Douglas Bader won the Battle of Britain single handedly in his spitfire. As one ex Uni lecturer said to me in the late 70's 'some folk think Johnny Foreigners' start at Marseilles, Little Englanders think they start at Dover'.

I think it's a term many of us have our own definition for which doesn't necessarily match other people's!

These people exist but not in the numbers I think we pretend they do. The idea that half the country is sat around wishing on a fallen Empire has no basis in evidence and fails to account for the voter I mentioned - one who heard warnings of declining British influence and thought 'good!'.
Plenty more people want to retire to their hobbit hole than send gunboats down the Yangtze.

I think there is a minority like that but for the most part it's just an "optimistic" belief that the EU was holding us back in all sorts of ways from competing and being at least level on the world stage with the USA and China.

[Paddington Bear]

Little Englander for me is a pejorative term and describes the xenophobic and jingoistic type of Brexit voter who believes that England still has an empire to speak of and can stand on its own two feet regardless of what the modern world throws at them. The ones who believe England won both world wars all by themselves and Douglas Bader won the Battle of Britain single handedly in his spitfire. As one ex Uni lecturer said to me in the late 70's 'some folk think Johnny Foreigners' start at Marseilles, Little Englanders think they start at Dover'.

I think it's a term many of us have our own definition for which doesn't necessarily match other people's!

These people exist but not in the numbers I think we pretend they do. The idea that half the country is sat around wishing on a fallen Empire has no basis in evidence and fails to account for the voter I mentioned - one who heard warnings of declining British influence and thought 'good!'.
Plenty more people want to retire to their hobbit hole than send gunboats down the Yangtze.

I think there is a minority like that but for the most part it's just an "optimistic" belief that the EU was holding us back in all sorts of ways from competing and being at least level on the world stage with the USA and China.

As I say, the evidence for the existence of an Imperial minded voter is pretty scant compared to those who want to retreat in on ourselves. Hence why £350m for the NHS was a much more popular Leave appeal than global free trade.

[I like neeps]

[tabascoboy]

As I say, the evidence for the existence of an Imperial minded voter is pretty scant compared to those who want to retreat in on ourselves. Hence why £350m for the NHS was a much more popular Leave appeal than global free trade.

Ah yes, voters - I admit I was thinking more of the strong vocal proponents of Pro Brexit.

[Paddington Bear]

As I say, the evidence for the existence of an Imperial minded voter is pretty scant compared to those who want to retreat in on ourselves. Hence why £350m for the NHS was a much more popular Leave appeal than global free trade.

Ah yes, voters - I admit I was thinking more of the strong vocal proponents of Pro Brexit.

Yes definitely agree on that

[Dogbert]

A Tory MP has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

They don’t change do they. I remember when Lord Gowrie was offered the post of Secretary of State for Education in 1985 by Thatcher, but turned it down because he said that it was impossible to live in London on a Minister’s salary of £33,000 a year. This was at a time when the average salary in the UK was around £8,800, and the average salary in London was £10,000.

You are a right bunch of Heartless Bastards

The poor man is obviously struggling financially , and all you can do is mock him

If you had any moral compass the least we could do is set up a Gofundme page to alleviate his suffering

[tabascoboy]

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

They don’t change do they. I remember when Lord Gowrie was offered the post of Secretary of State for Education in 1985 by Thatcher, but turned it down because he said that it was impossible to live in London on a Minister’s salary of £33,000 a year. This was at a time when the average salary in the UK was around £8,800, and the average salary in London was £10,000.

You are a right bunch of Heartless Bastards

The poor man is obviously struggling financially , and all you can do is mock him

If you had any moral compass the least we could do is set up a Gofundme page to alleviate his suffering

I'll offer my donation in urine, since he's so keen to take the piss out of us

[Mahoney]

My impression is that the "retreat in on ourselves" crowd are also indulging in wishful thinking that we can do that and have the world behave towards us the way we would like them to. The Hobbit analogy seems to me correct - but while it wasn't a big theme of LotR, one of the things Tolkien did (grudgingly...) acknowledge was that the Shire existed at the whim & mercy of the powers around it. The Shire ended up being part of the Reunited Kingdom... admittedly under very advantageous terms, but only because the King was nice.

[_Os_]

Yeah well, study after study has shown that immigration was the primary reason people voted Leave, with "not wanting to have to follow the EU's laws" as the second most popular reason. Those with more nuanced approaches to voting Leave are the tiny percentage.

Not sure what your point is here? Being opposed to immigration is not the same as having an ideology that "the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK".

The post you said was "miles off" had two parts.

1) basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK
2) at a minimum immigrants must fuck off

I pointed out that the studies show that anti-immigration was reason #1, with "not wanting to follow the EU's laws" being reason #2. Why you've chosen to 'forget' that anti-immigration was a core part of the post you disagreed with I don't know, but it's there.

Not wanting to follow the EU's laws does have some ties to believing the UK is superior and a superpower - we are big enough and strong enough to survive on our own, we'll thrive without them, the EU is what's been holding us back, etc etc

Ja, that sums it up. The Ashcroft post-2016 referendum poll (was it actually an exit poll? If so that makes it even stronger), showed that the reasons to vote Leave were 1. Sovereignty 2. Immigration. South of England Leave voters were more likely to go with "sovereignty" (which when they're questioned further often morphs into "immigration"), north of England Leave voters more likely to go with "immigration". The ideology which animates the Tory party and much of UK political life is now these two things.

There's all sorts of examples of my first point emerging. Take for example the truck driver shortage Tories have claimed 1. Wages need to rise for truck drivers 2. Infighting about short term visas for EU drivers (pointless anyway as very few will come any time soon), the reason there's infighting is probably a majority in the cabinet want the driver supply to be restricted to increase wages 3. The belief that the UK can supply the same amount of drivers as was the case when EU drivers were able and interested in working in the UK. But this doesn't work does it? Because if/when the amount of drivers increases, the wages are going to go down regardless of it's UK or EU drivers.

The demands being made on business are also a confused mess, that remind me of the ANC. Haulage companies are being told by Tory MPs they have to improve services for truck drivers. France and Germany have better facilities for truck drivers, drivers don't wash in sinks in truck parks that stink of piss and shit there. But how is it the social responsibility of haulage companies many of which are medium enterprises on the bones of their arse to upgrade motorway services? Aren't the haulage companies paying taxes? The ANC killed a lot of SA's mining sector with social demands like this. The same goes for a lot of the Tory demands business upskill workers, as they make education more expensive.

There's literally a thing (now thankfully mostly dead) called "South African exceptionalism", where people came out with all this shit in SA because they thought basic economics didn't apply. Then they discovered it all applied.

[salanya]

My impression is that the "retreat in on ourselves" crowd are also indulging in wishful thinking that we can do that and have the world behave towards us the way we would like them to. The Hobbit analogy seems to me correct - but while it wasn't a big theme of LotR, one of the things Tolkien did (grudgingly...) acknowledge was that the Shire existed at the whim & mercy of the powers around it. The Shire ended up being part of the Reunited Kingdom... admittedly under very advantageous terms, but only because the King was nice.

Agree on the 'wishful thinking' - and it's often beyond 'wishful', and just not grounded by any form of reality.

A bit like Boris and Co shouting about the High Wages. Everybody wants higher wages, but who's paying for them?
And how much are these higher wages worth, if there is significant inflation, and the incontinued huge increases in house prices etc.?

There is also a 'British/English' stubbornes of outsiders influencing the country. Complaining about all these foreign workers, taking jobs from British people. Newsflash: most foreigners wouldn't have come if the jobs weren't here.
And now those job vacancies are unfilled, and instead of addressing this properly, Boris is just pushing his High Skills, High Wages message. Which in no way answers the actual issues of the type of job vacansies that need filling.

[_Os_]

Put better than my post - thanks!

My only hope is that these type of ideologically driven regime shit shows is that they tend to come tumbling down pretty fast and pretty messily. There is usually a trigger, it doesn't need to be a big issue but something that exposes the shallowness and crookedness of the regime to their supporters, the straw that breaks the camels back analogy. However they can do a lot of lasting damage and create division that takes a long time to repair. I get the feeling that more and more folk are sensing something is not quite right. some critical comments from R5 on BBC - suspect there will be a letter in the post.

Just listened to the Blonde Bumblecunts conference speech, less like a speech from a PM and more like an after dinner speech from a semi-literate, drunken, ex private school cricket captain. Loads of throw away jokes, slagging of opposition leaders and claims that didnt stack up. Ended up by trying to claim credit for the GB success at the olympics and paralympics and the English football team! Talk about rewriting history - the painting of the Afghanistan withdrawal as a great military success made me choke on my biscuits and cheese! Off to play golf now and to take it out on a wee white ball.

Well, they're polling at 40% so I'm not holding my breath. The Tories could easily be in power on this platform into the 2030s, the trick for them will be funneling inducements to their supporters in such a way that those people think their lives have improved. It doesn't even need to be much improvement or even any at all, just the hope will be enough to keep supporters onboard a platform preying on their identity and emotional attachments.

It'll help the Tories the more shameless they are, Johnson is a good fit. The speculated increase in the minimum wage is a good trick for them, it's a moot point minimum wages do nothing to help the least skilled (if you're not getting employment without a minimum wage you're not getting employment when there is a minimum wage, the same applies when there's a lower minimum wage that becomes a higher minimum wage) but the UK is at about full employment anyway so maybe they can get away with increasing the minimum wage, businesses then have to carry the higher wage bill passing it onto consumers and risking the UK becoming less competitive and inflation etc. But if you're shameless you can con your supporters into thinking you've made their lives better even if their wages are higher but also worth less. They'll probably need to rack up the debt to make this strategy really work for them longterm, it's all about getting whatever meager patronage to their supporters they can, so they need to find a way to increase benefits but in a way that people know it's because of them, adding the £20 they added and then later took away will be a good trick, maybe they can keep shuffling the same £20.

The longer they're in power the more damage is going to be done. The final destination for this type of politics is always a structural budget deficit (all the supporters needed the money shoveled at them), a huge pile of debt, an economy that isn't competitive, devalued currency, and much else besides in the worst cases. This type of politics always ends up there, because when political considerations become the primary determinant in economic policy and growth is relegated to an afterthought ("fuck business!"), the economic situation inevitably deteriorates badly. There's a lot of examples of nations that have gone down the path the UK seems to be on, the lucky ones only have to completely remove the politics from their economic policy and go for growth at whatever cost (basically a total loss of sovereignty), and severely cutting government spending and/or ramping up taxes to balance the budget.

Migration is one of the means for getting growth, the UK is still getting high migration from South Asia for now, but the highest value migrants (from Europe) have fallen off a cliff. All the talk from the UK government about the social responsibilities (what are taxes being paid for?) of businesses ("fuck business!"), will presumably be turned into some bodged together confused policy mess at some point, which is hardly likely to be pro-business. Any target to return a budget surplus through cuts was abandoned by Osborne as long ago as 2016, but without any credible plan to achieve growth and eliminate the deficit that way. Much of the UK's debt is held by the Bank of England (BoE purchases gilts from banks in return for interest-bearing reserves, about a third of UK government debt now takes this form, this makes servicing the debt much cheaper as long as the Bank Rate is at the historically low 0.1%), but if the Bank Rate increases servicing that debt will rise too and further expand the deficit. Independent monetary institutions don't last long in a full on banana republic for reasons like this; if there's no GDP growth the UK government will end up having a more or less existential political stake in the Bank Rate. A good trick will be having tiered rates to pump the debt even higher (probably all sorts of downsides in that, but if you're shameless it doesn't matter and is a good enough quick fix).

Without a credible growth path all the economic unicorns hit the wall eventually, that's the usual way a nationalist/populist mess of the type the Tories are gets removed from power. Until then money machine goes bburrrrrrrr, and the Tories will be in power for this entire decade.

[dpedin]

For a change I thought I would tune into Question Time last night, don't usually watch it but thought it would be interesting post the Tory conference. Nadhim Zahawi was the Tory rep and took a hell of a kicking from almost everyone on the panel and in the audience. He must be on a huge bonus or promise of a knighthood to front up and try and defend the current Gov shitshow. Lisa Nandy decided to sit back and let everyone else do her work for her. It was really quite brutal and there wasn't a single supporting voice from anywhere for the Gov on almost every topic discussed. Even the reliable right wing Nick Ferrari and the NFU President were sticking the boot in. Rosie Jones was excellent as usual.

BBC claimed to take great care to ensure the audience is a representative sample of the public and if that is true then the Tory bastards must be shitting themselves. Looked like the Blonde Bumblecunt is getting called out and folk are now seeing through the cartoon bluster and posh boy jokes. I wonder what their focus groups are telling them? I expect to see a massive u-turn on a number of policies soon.

[fishfoodie]

For a change I thought I would tune into Question Time last night, don't usually watch it but thought it would be interesting post the Tory conference. Nadhim Zahawi was the Tory rep and took a hell of a kicking from almost everyone on the panel and in the audience. He must be on a huge bonus or promise of a knighthood to front up and try and defend the current Gov shitshow. Lisa Nandy decided to sit back and let everyone else do her work for her. It was really quite brutal and there wasn't a single supporting voice from anywhere for the Gov on almost every topic discussed. Even the reliable right wing Nick Ferrari and the NFU President were sticking the boot in. Rosie Jones was excellent as usual.

BBC claimed to take great care to ensure the audience is a representative sample of the public and if that is true then the Tory bastards must be shitting themselves. Looked like the Blonde Bumblecunt is getting called out and folk are now seeing through the cartoon bluster and posh boy jokes. I wonder what their focus groups are telling them? I expect to see a massive u-turn on a number of policies soon.

The Problem is that electoral change is a two part problem; its not enough for the Tories to be unspeakably shit; the opposition has to step up too.

[tabascoboy]

The whole scene has been so dominated by Brexit for years, and then COVID that proper political debate and campaigning on wider issues has been kicked into touch. It's difficult to nail down exactly what the opposition parties - in England - would do differently never mind better, and so I can see voters deciding better the devil you know. The only thing likely to upset this is if energy and goods supply shortages really start to bite and prices soar, then it may change to "anything has to be better than this". Surely Keir Starmer can't just keep playing the "let's keep watching the Tory shitshow" waiting game for much longer and has to begin to be openly proactive in offering alternatives.

[Hal Jordan]

The Tories will do what they always do; knife the unpopular incumbent and bring in a saviour. Nice Rishi seems likely lad for the job. Re-elections all round!

[JM2K6]

Precisely. The Tories aren't getting the flak, Boris is. Sunak the snake will get the job and the amnesiac electorate will treat them like a new party.

[I like neeps]

[tc27]

The Daily Mail is actually launching a campaign to get every back to doing a pointless daily commute by linking homeworking to people getting left behind in Kabul.

It's absolutely pathetic and frankly not the governments or media's business to dictate..they can fuck right off.

[robmatic]

The Daily Mail is actually launching a campaign to get every back to doing a pointless daily commute by linking homeworking to people getting left behind in Kabul.

It's absolutely pathetic and frankly not the governments or media's business to dictate..they can fuck right off.

Let the market decide (unless it negatively affects commercial property portfolios).

[I like neeps]

The Daily Mail is actually launching a campaign to get every back to doing a pointless daily commute by linking homeworking to people getting left behind in Kabul.

It's absolutely pathetic and frankly not the governments or media's business to dictate..they can fuck right off.

They've both been trying it for a long time. It's interesting because I do think considering how invested pension funds are in commercial real estate the govt have a solid reason for it. I'm guessing the Rothermere's and the Barclays et al have a very significant amount also invested in London's commercial real estate.

[Paddington Bear]

That and I bet a lot of newspapers are sold to people looking for something to read on the train, and of course offices buy a lot as well

[Paddington Bear]

Also worth mentioning huge amounts was moved out of London. Practically entire departments moved to Harrogate

[I like neeps]

Also worth mentioning huge amounts was moved out of London. Practically entire departments moved to Harrogate

This was is even more mental