Dinghy arrivals / asylum seekers / gimmegrants

[fishfoodie]

“Making the UK a less attractive destination”

At last we hear the reason the Tories have been destroying the Economy, & public services for the last decade !

Of course the ungrateful pricks in the rest of the population won't appreciate that it was necessary to give the UK a worse standard of living, & health service than Libya*, to stop refugees, but that's their look out for voting Tory in the first place !





* yes I know it's an exaggeration, but the statement is complete bollox, & only demonstrates that the speaker hasn't the slightest grasp of how desperate these peoples situation is, & thus what they consider "attractive"

[Ymx]

“Making the UK a less attractive destination”

At last we hear the reason the Tories have been destroying the Economy, & public services for the last decade !

Of course the ungrateful pricks in the rest of the population won't appreciate that it was necessary to give the UK a worse standard of living, & health service than Libya*, to stop refugees, but that's their look out for voting Tory in the first place !





* yes I know it's an exaggeration, but the statement is complete bollox, & only demonstrates that the speaker hasn't the slightest grasp of how desperate these peoples situation is, & thus what they consider "attractive"

Well played sir.

[Simian]

“Targeted the backlog by end of year”

They seem to be trying to do this (at least partly) by just dropping (rather than processing) applications tho.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 83880.html

[Torquemada 1420]

Unbelievable, even where it’s a direct video linked, you’ll just blanket dismiss and block it all out, if it’s from anyone to the right of Corbyn.

You pretty much think the Tory’s are Nazis. Wait you’ve actually directly said that.

Suit yourself.

It is self evident that a significant element of the Tory party holds many views that align with those of the Nazis.

Please feel free to post some evidence of this

[Insane_Homer]

This type of anecdotal evidence worry parents



It’s not recent, but still true.

[Ymx]

I can’t hear the bit where he refuted the case above. Just a general lefty rant, using the words racist, fascist, bigot, etc, to dismiss any highlighting in general. Typical, don’t want to know about it view.

[Insane_Homer]

I can’t hear the bit where he refuted the case above. Just a general lefty rant, using the words racist, fascist, bigot, etc, to dismiss any highlighting in general. Typical, don’t want to know about it view.

Sorry, my mistake - I mistook your anecdotal, here's a bad one, not so recent, but still true, evidenced tweet that worries parents as you "highlighting in general", oh wait... oops

[David in Gwent]

It is self evident that a significant element of the Tory party holds many views that align with those of the Nazis.

Please feel free to post some evidence of this

Is it not also self evident that a significant element of the Labour party Leadership, at all levels, also hold many views that align with those of the Nazis....

[Tichtheid]

Is it not also self evident that a significant element of the Labour party Leadership, at all levels, also hold many views that align with those of the Nazis....

Quite the opposite. The Nazis were in favour of a Zionist Jewish state - it gave them somewhere to deport a whole lot of people to.

What confuses a lot of people is a conflation Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism.

However, there are some left-leaning people who also mix a pro Palestinian view with Anti-Semitism, a friend of mine who is a Jewish member of the Labour Party has experienced this first-hand.

I'm never comfortable with calling Tories Nazis or Fascist, it does a great disservice and is disrespectful to those who were murdered and otherwise victimised by that awful regime, just as I dislike the argument that equates Socialism with Stalinism or Maoism, it's lazy.

Having said that, there is the Hostile Environment, forced relocation to Rwanda, the vans as pictured, the making people stateless, the attacks on the media and judiciary, refugee-blaming (it's going on on this thread right now) - all of those are very similar to policies acted out in Nazi Germany.

There was also an open letter to the Home Secretary written by Holocaust survivors pleading with her to tone down the language as it was eerily familiar to them

[David in Gwent]

Is it not also self evident that a significant element of the Labour party Leadership, at all levels, also hold many views that align with those of the Nazis....

Quite the opposite. The Nazis were in favour of a Zionist Jewish state - it gave them somewhere to deport a whole lot of people to.

What confuses a lot of people is a conflation Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism.

However, there are some left-leaning people who also mix a pro Palestinian view with Anti-Semitism, a friend of mine who is a Jewish member of the Labour Party has experienced this first-hand.

I'm never comfortable with calling Tories Nazis or Fascist, it does a great disservice and is disrespectful to those who were murdered and otherwise victimised by that awful regime, just as I dislike the argument that equates Socialism with Stalinism or Maoism, it's lazy.

Having said that, there is the Hostile Environment, forced relocation to Rwanda, the vans as pictured, the making people stateless, the attacks on the media and judiciary, refugee-blaming (it's going on on another thread right now) - all of those are very similar to policies acted out in Nazi Germany.

There was also an open letter to the Home Secretary written by Holocaust survivors pleading with her to tone down the language as it was eerily familiar to them

Oh please, do not try and gaslight me. On the one hand you're saying "The Nazis were in favour of a Zionist Jewish state" when in reality the Nazis murdered millions of Jews, they obviously weren't interested in deporting them anywhere other than to camps in Central Europe.

As for your "conflation Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism" that is complete tosh, and you know it

Forced relocation to Rwanda - There is no forced relocation to Rwanda.
The Vans as pictured - We have laws in this country, are you saying the UK is wrong to enforce it's laws?
The making people stateless - It's the migrants who are making themselves stateless, not the Tory party, would you like to see videos of migrants ripping up all of their IDs?.
The attacks on the media and judiciary - What attacks?
Refugee-blaming - A small minority of Migrants are committing very serious crimes and it's raising tensions in communities with large migrant populations, what do you expect people to do, not complain about a local person being raped?

all of those are very similar to policies acted out in Nazi Germany - The same things above are happening in places like South Africa, Brazil, Sweden and Libya who are suffering large amounts of migrant traffic - Comparing them to the Nazis, because it's a convenient slur is moronic, childish and down right lazy.

[Sandstorm]

Hi DAC

[David in Gwent]

"There was also an open letter to the Home Secretary written by Holocaust survivors pleading with her to tone down the language as it was eerily familiar to them"

I've read the letter.

If the people arriving in boats were genuine refugees then I would whole-heartedly agree with the contents of the letter, however, over 85% of the people arriving are young men of a working age and many are coming from places like Albania, Georgia, Pakistan and North African states, etc.

Comparing the current situation to the holocaust, as they have done in the letter, is purely political.

[David in Gwent]

By the way, that Van photograph is from 2013.

[Tichtheid]

Is it not also self evident that a significant element of the Labour party Leadership, at all levels, also hold many views that align with those of the Nazis....

Quite the opposite. The Nazis were in favour of a Zionist Jewish state - it gave them somewhere to deport a whole lot of people to.

What confuses a lot of people is a conflation Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism.

However, there are some left-leaning people who also mix a pro Palestinian view with Anti-Semitism, a friend of mine who is a Jewish member of the Labour Party has experienced this first-hand.

I'm never comfortable with calling Tories Nazis or Fascist, it does a great disservice and is disrespectful to those who were murdered and otherwise victimised by that awful regime, just as I dislike the argument that equates Socialism with Stalinism or Maoism, it's lazy.

Having said that, there is the Hostile Environment, forced relocation to Rwanda, the vans as pictured, the making people stateless, the attacks on the media and judiciary, refugee-blaming (it's going on on another thread right now) - all of those are very similar to policies acted out in Nazi Germany.

There was also an open letter to the Home Secretary written by Holocaust survivors pleading with her to tone down the language as it was eerily familiar to them

Oh please, do not try and gaslight me. On the one hand you're saying "The Nazis were in favour of a Zionist Jewish state" when in reality the Nazis murdered millions of Jews, they obviously weren't interested in deporting them anywhere other than to camps in Central Europe.

From Wiki

The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הֶסְכֵּם הַעֲבָרָה‎ Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine in 1933–1939.[1]

As for your "conflation Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism" that is complete tosh, and you know it

I know it to be true

Forced relocation to Rwanda - There is no forced relocation to Rwanda.

How would you describe the Rwanda plan?

The Vans as pictured - We have laws in this country, are you saying the UK is wrong to enforce it's laws?

Those particular laws were part of the Hostile environment, which was government policy

The making people stateless - It's the migrants who are making themselves stateless, not the Tory party, would you like to see videos of migrants ripping up all of their IDs?.

A quick Google found this

Last year the Nationality and Borders Act expanded government powers to render people stateless without notice. The Statelessness Index says "the UK government has far-reaching powers to deprive British nationals of their nationality" and there is no time limit on detention on immigration grounds.

According to Home Office figures, fewer than a dozen people were stripped of citizenship between 1973 and 2006. Between 2010 when the Tories came to power and 2020, it was more than 450. The international treaties forbidding nations from doing this were written as a direct result of the Holocaust, co-authored and co-signed by the UK.

The attacks on the media and judiciary - What attacks?

There has been a relentless attack on the BBC and also on Chanel 4. As for the Judiciary, when Johnson shut down parliament and it was ruled unlawful by the courts, the government propaganda machine/Tory press printed pictures of the judges and branded them Traitors. There are other instances too.

Refugee-blaming - A small minority of Migrants are committing very serious crimes and it's raising tensions in communities with large migrant populations, what do you expect people to do, not complain about a local person being raped?

Overall crime has gone down in England and Wales as the number of immigrant and asylum seekers has gone up, the reasons for this are multifaceted, as are the reasons that some crimes are increasing, however I don't think the portrayal of immigrants staring unblinkingly at the cliffs of Dover from a small boat, dagger held in their teeth, salivating at the prospect of raping and killing children as soon as they get on dry land is a helpful one of the wider debate.

all of those are very similar to policies acted out in Nazi Germany - The same things above are happening in places like South Africa, Brazil, Sweden and Libya who are suffering large amounts of migrant traffic - Comparing them to the Nazis, because it's a convenient slur is moronic, childish and down right lazy.

Some of the policies are similar.

[David in Gwent]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... bour_Party

Wikipedia must be conflating Anti-Zionism with Antisemitism again.....

[Tichtheid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... bour_Party

Wikipedia must be conflating Anti-Zionism with Antisemitism again.....

If you'd thought about what I said you may have gained some insight.

[Tichtheid]

Hi DAC

I may take JM2K's advice as this thread already takes up too much of my time and there doesn't seem much appetite for a genuine exchange of views

[Lobby]

Is it not also self evident that a significant element of the Labour party Leadership, at all levels, also hold many views that align with those of the Nazis....

The Nazis were in favour of a Zionist Jewish state - it gave them somewhere to deport a whole lot of people to.

You are Ken Livingstone and I claim my £5.

[David in Gwent]

I'm not really interested in crime rates being used to justify migration, however:

Overall crime has gone down in England and Wales as the number of immigrant and asylum seekers has gone up, the reasons for this are multifaceted, as are the reasons that some crimes are increasing

The 6.7 million crimes recorded were 11% higher compared with the year ending March 2020 (6.1 million offences). This overall increase was ...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... gmarch2023

[Tichtheid]

I'm not really interested in crime rates being used to justify migration,

but you're interested in crime rates being used to stop migration, you've said so.

[David in Gwent]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... bour_Party

Wikipedia must be conflating Anti-Zionism with Antisemitism again.....

If you'd thought about what I said you may have gained some insight.

The insight I have is thus, you're comparing the Tory party to the Nazi party whilst trying gas light people as to why the Labour party is chock a block full of Anti-Semites .

[Tichtheid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... bour_Party

Wikipedia must be conflating Anti-Zionism with Antisemitism again.....

If you'd thought about what I said you may have gained some insight.

The insight I have is thus, you're comparing the Tory party to the Nazi party whilst trying gas light people as to why the Labour party is chock a block full of Anti-Semites .

You just didn't understand what I wrote.

[David in Gwent]

I'm not really interested in crime rates being used to justify migration,

but you're interested in crime rates being used to stop migration, you've said so.

No, I was interested in your take on "Refugee Blaming" as that was part of your post on why the Tory Party is like the Nazi party.

[C69]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... bour_Party

Wikipedia must be conflating Anti-Zionism with Antisemitism again.....

If you'd thought about what I said you may have gained some insight.

The insight I have is thus, you're comparing the Tory party to the Nazi party whilst trying gas light people as to why the Labour party is chock a block full of Anti-Semites .

Is Starmer an antisemite?

[David in Gwent]

If you'd thought about what I said you may have gained some insight.

The insight I have is thus, you're comparing the Tory party to the Nazi party whilst trying gas light people as to why the Labour party is chock a block full of Anti-Semites .

You just didn't understand what I wrote.

I did and do. So maybe given what we've discussed you'll be less forthcoming in comparing the UK Government to the Nazi Party.

For the record, I think the Tory party are shit at everything they do and I won't be voting for them ever again but I can't let comments like that slide.

[Ymx]

I can’t hear the bit where he refuted the case above. Just a general lefty rant, using the words racist, fascist, bigot, etc, to dismiss any highlighting in general. Typical, don’t want to know about it view.

Sorry, my mistake - I mistook your anecdotal, here's a bad one, not so recent, but still true, evidenced tweet that worries parents as you "highlighting in general", oh wait... oops

Please … it’s massive strawman logic. Even you can see that, I hope.

He ridiculously claims that people are suggesting _all_ of them are bad because they highlight individual cases.

Because it’s clearly not true all of them are bad, therefore it’s racist to highlight one case.

It’s truly simpleton stuff.

[Tichtheid]

The insight I have is thus, you're comparing the Tory party to the Nazi party whilst trying gas light people as to why the Labour party is chock a block full of Anti-Semites .

You just didn't understand what I wrote.

I did and do. So maybe given what we've discussed you'll be less forthcoming in comparing the UK Government to the Nazi Party.

You should really read it again then, as you've clearly misunderstood what I wrote, there is a nuance there if you are prepared to look beyond whatever it is that motivates you to see what you want to see

[David in Gwent]

You just didn't understand what I wrote.

I did and do. So maybe given what we've discussed you'll be less forthcoming in comparing the UK Government to the Nazi Party.

You should really read it again then, as you've clearly misunderstood what I wrote, there is a nuance there if you are prepared to look beyond whatever it is that motivates you to see what you want to see

So I misunderstood the bit where you made a list comparing the actions of UK Gov to the Nazi Party?

[Tichtheid]

I did and do. So maybe given what we've discussed you'll be less forthcoming in comparing the UK Government to the Nazi Party.

You should really read it again then, as you've clearly misunderstood what I wrote, there is a nuance there if you are prepared to look beyond whatever it is that motivates you to see what you want to see

So I misunderstood the bit where you made a list comparing the actions of UK Gov to the Nazi Party?

Yes.

I made very specific references to half a dozen policies implemented by the Tories. These polices are similar to those implemented at a certain point in time in Germany by the ruling party.

Nowhere did I mention aggressive invasions for foreign lands or any kind of Final Solution.

I understand that this can be triggering because the Nazis were one of the worst regimes in human history, but if you can look at it dispassionately you will see that the polices mentioned do have similarities.

[David in Gwent]

Yes, but that's incredibly facile.

Labour's main tag line at the moment is "Labour Will Build a Better Britain"

How is that anything different to the what the Nazi Party said? Obviously I don't believe the Labour party are like the Nazi party because I'm not a moron.

[Insane_Homer]

"Labour Will Build a Better Britain"

How is that anything different to the what the Nazi Party said?

Wat?

[Sandstorm]

I'm not a moron.

Jury's still out...

[C69]

Legionella found on the Bibby Stockholm barge.
Everybody off...

[Sandstorm]

Legionella found on the Bibby Stockholm barge.
Everybody off...

Getting illegal immigrants away from disease? Luxury!!

[David in Gwent]

Legionella found on the Bibby Stockholm barge.
Everybody off...

Legionella bacteria is present in almost every water system, quick flush through, a regime put in place (which should have been there already) and a re-sampling and it will be fine and dandy.

[Insane_Homer]

... people are suggesting _all_ of them are bad because they highlight individual cases.

So why are you highlighting individual cases? [while also claiming you're "highlighting in general"]

[Tichtheid]

Yes, but that's incredibly facile.

Labour's main tag line at the moment is "Labour Will Build a Better Britain"

How is that anything different to the what the Nazi Party said? Obviously I don't believe the Labour party are like the Nazi party because I'm not a moron.

No, what's facile or superficial is taking a sentence or paragraph and cutting out the words to suit what you think is being said;

The Tories have implemented policies that are similar to those implemented by the Nazis.


The Tories have implemented policies that are similar to those implemented by the Nazis


If you really want to make the same comparison then point to a Labour Party policy from any manifesto or time in government and show where it is similar to one implemented by the Nazis.

If the comparison is valid then I'll say so.


edit, it's just occurred to me that I could have added criminalising protest to the list of policies.

[David in Gwent]

If you really want to make the same comparison then point to a Labour Party policy from any manifesto or time in government and show where it is similar to one implemented by the Nazis

1968 Immigration Act - Harold Wilson.

It restricted immigration, so to use you're logic, literally a Nazi.

[Sandstorm]

Don't feed the troll, people. He has history for exactly this sort of bollocks.

[David in Gwent]

Don't feed the troll, people. He has history for exactly this sort of bollocks.

What part of what I'm saying is bollocks?