RWCR4 Scotland vs Ireland on 7Oct @ 21h00

[Slick]

Surely you would prefer to have been beaten by a team that went far in the tournament rather than knowing you'd have had an even bigger hiding in any QF had you won?

It’d be really funny watching the wailing as Ireland failed, yet again, to win a knock out match though.

We're playing NZ, a team we've beaten 4 times in history. If we lose we lose, I just don't get the whole supporting NZ over a home nation (outside of England).

If it was Scotland playing NZ in a QF you'd be sure the vast majority of Irish fans would be wanting Scotland to win.

I’m sure the majority of Scots - those not on rugby forums or social media - will

[Begbie]

I'm on board the Green Machine. I may hop off if it ends up being Ireland v France in the final, they've always been my 'second team'.

[Begbie]

And I guess this is what it all comes down to

Was about to post this 'round the corners'

What a lad. I think they should just give the World Cup to this guy.

[PornDog]

Surely you would prefer to have been beaten by a team that went far in the tournament rather than knowing you'd have had an even bigger hiding in any QF had you won?

It’d be really funny watching the wailing as Ireland failed, yet again, to win a knock out match though.

We're playing NZ, a team we've beaten 4 times in history. If we lose we lose, I just don't get the whole supporting NZ over a home nation (outside of England).

If it was Scotland playing NZ in a QF you'd be sure the vast majority of Irish fans would be wanting Scotland to win.

5. 5 times.

[Sards]

Ireland are favorites to win the RWC....They don't need the whole United Kingdom behind them ffs

[Biffer]

Surely you would prefer to have been beaten by a team that went far in the tournament rather than knowing you'd have had an even bigger hiding in any QF had you won?

It’d be really funny watching the wailing as Ireland failed, yet again, to win a knock out match though.

We're playing NZ, a team we've beaten 4 times in history. If we lose we lose, I just don't get the whole supporting NZ over a home nation (outside of England).

If it was Scotland playing NZ in a QF you'd be sure the vast majority of Irish fans would be wanting Scotland to win.

I didn't say I'd be supporting them, I just said the reaction would be funny.

[Big D]

True but if that's the case, they were cruising for a bruising. You settle the win first. Margin comes later.

Yep. Got to win before you can win by 8. Or get a try bonus point win.

I know I am out on a limb on saying I'd kick to the corner but I stand by it for the following reasons:
- Only winning the game wasn't enough. A one point win would have been "plucky Scotland" and "Ireland did enough to get through". And the players thinking "aye we won but we're out".
- We had to know we would need between 25-30 points to have a chance. We have only kept them below 19 once in recent years. Given the circumstances, I would have expected the coaches to have looked at it and had a points total in mind we were aiming for and the best way to achieve that.
- We had settled well and were keeping the ball.
- Making it 5-3 and then giving them the ball back on half way (on average) lets them settle even further into the game.
- If the players are that mentally fragile that 3 points would have stopped them capitulating after the second try then we have bigger concerns than turning down three points.
- We have tried the "lets hang in there approach" before. To beat Ireland we had to hit the front and then stay in front, this Ireland team are too good to be constantly chasing them especially knowing we had to win by 8.

[Biffer]

True but if that's the case, they were cruising for a bruising. You settle the win first. Margin comes later.

Yep. Got to win before you can win by 8. Or get a try bonus point win.

I know I am out on a limb on saying I'd kick to the corner but I stand by it for the following reasons:
- Only winning the game wasn't enough. A one point win would have been "plucky Scotland" and "Ireland did enough to get through". And the players thinking "aye we won but we're out".
- We had to know we would need between 25-30 points to have a chance. We have only kept them below 19 once in recent years. Given the circumstances, I would have expected the coaches to have looked at it and had a points total in mind we were aiming for and the best way to achieve that.
- We had settled well and were keeping the ball.
- Making it 5-3 and then giving them the ball back on half way (on average) lets them settle even further into the game.
- If the players are that mentally fragile that 3 points would have stopped them capitulating after the second try then we have bigger concerns than turning down three points.
- We have tried the "lets hang in there approach" before. To beat Ireland we had to hit the front and then stay in front, this Ireland team are too good to be constantly chasing them especially knowing we had to win by 8.

We're not going to agree but the over riding thing for me is you have to be in a position to win before you can win by a certain number.

[I like neeps]

It’d be really funny watching the wailing as Ireland failed, yet again, to win a knock out match though.

We're playing NZ, a team we've beaten 4 times in history. If we lose we lose, I just don't get the whole supporting NZ over a home nation (outside of England).

If it was Scotland playing NZ in a QF you'd be sure the vast majority of Irish fans would be wanting Scotland to win.

I didn't say I'd be supporting them, I just said the reaction would be funny.

I'll be supporting NZ, Ireland's rugby is so boring to watch. If rugby is to keep me as a viewer entertained it's by watching exciting rugby.

Ireland are very boringly, very world class. Rightfully the best team in the world. But like with SA, I'd rather watch good teams play fun rugby.

Queue the it's fun if you're Irish, I'm sure it is. Enjoy it!

[Big D]

Yep. Got to win before you can win by 8. Or get a try bonus point win.

I know I am out on a limb on saying I'd kick to the corner but I stand by it for the following reasons:
- Only winning the game wasn't enough. A one point win would have been "plucky Scotland" and "Ireland did enough to get through". And the players thinking "aye we won but we're out".
- We had to know we would need between 25-30 points to have a chance. We have only kept them below 19 once in recent years. Given the circumstances, I would have expected the coaches to have looked at it and had a points total in mind we were aiming for and the best way to achieve that.
- We had settled well and were keeping the ball.
- Making it 5-3 and then giving them the ball back on half way (on average) lets them settle even further into the game.
- If the players are that mentally fragile that 3 points would have stopped them capitulating after the second try then we have bigger concerns than turning down three points.
- We have tried the "lets hang in there approach" before. To beat Ireland we had to hit the front and then stay in front, this Ireland team are too good to be constantly chasing them especially knowing we had to win by 8.

We're not going to agree but the over riding thing for me is you have to be in a position to win before you can win by a certain number.

I agree on the second part.

Even forgoing the +8 point requirement I still don't think we beat specifically this Ireland team by kicking penalties when we have the chance to kick to the corner because they are going to score 20+ against us. The best chance we had of winning was taking chances to score tries. The few times we have beaten them in the last 15 years is when we have hit the front early. Happy to agree to disagree though.

[Tichtheid]

They say there are still Scots on the their way home from Argentina '78.

[Blackmac]

I've always seen Ireland as my second team and would generally support any NH team over a SH, but sadly this Irish team and some of their bandwagoners make them a very hard team to like.

[Begbie]

I've always seen Ireland as my second team and would generally support any NH team over a SH, but sadly this Irish team and some of their bandwagoners make them a very hard team to like.

I'm trying to rise above it, like being happy for your c*nty cousin having any success in life. I also think an Ireland v Wales semi will be social media gold.

[fishfoodie]

I've always seen Ireland as my second team and would generally support any NH team over a SH, but sadly this Irish team and some of their bandwagoners make them a very hard team to like.

I'm trying to rise above it, like being happy for your c*nty cousin having any success in life. I also think an Ireland v Wales semi will be social media gold.

I doubt the hamsters in the PR server would be up to the task of managing the load for the match thread' we could end up with a bunch of refugees again.

[Sandstorm]

I've always seen Ireland as my second team and would generally support any NH team over a SH, but sadly this Irish team and some of their bandwagoners make them a very hard team to like.

I'm trying to rise above it, like being happy for your c*nty cousin having any success in life. I also think an Ireland v Wales semi will be social media gold.

I doubt the hamsters in the PR server would be up to the task of managing the load for the match thread' we could end up with a bunch of refugees again.

I dunno who'll melt-down harder over here: c69, REFRY or ER.

[paddyor]

I don’t agree, but quite amusing

https://x.com/smthrscricket/status/1710 ... tSNBueE4mg

There were certainly some dodgy decisions (Keenan clearly being in touch the most annoying). We’d still have lost even if there hadn’t been though.

That one was on the TMO/AR though(and it was the TMO who called it) as Berry was miles away.

[Yr Alban]

I've always seen Ireland as my second team and would generally support any NH team over a SH, but sadly this Irish team and some of their bandwagoners make them a very hard team to like.

This is where I’m at too. I would like to be able to support Ireland, but they aren’t half making it difficult right now. Of course, this may simply be because they are the best team right now, and it’s easier to like a team who aren’t expected to win. I’ve felt the same way about Wales a few times over the years.

[Yr Alban]

I don’t agree, but quite amusing

https://x.com/smthrscricket/status/1710 ... tSNBueE4mg

There were certainly some dodgy decisions (Keenan clearly being in touch the most annoying). We’d still have lost even if there hadn’t been though.

That one was on the TMO/AR though(and it was the TMO who called it) as Berry was miles away.

Yeah. I really do struggle to accept that anyone even vaguely neutral could look at that incident and conclude he wasn’t in touch though. It really isn’t even close.

[paddyor]

I don’t agree, but quite amusing

https://x.com/smthrscricket/status/1710 ... tSNBueE4mg

There were certainly some dodgy decisions (Keenan clearly being in touch the most annoying). We’d still have lost even if there hadn’t been though.

The simple fact is that we should have defended it better, yes we should have been playing off an attacking 50/22 instead of defending, but we didn’t defend nearly as well as Ireland did.

I was much more pissed off with the one that Rory Best pointed out at half time, Price was taken out by Hansen on one side whilst Turner was body checked by (I think) Sheehan on the other, leaving Gilchrist to defend a 15m gap against Ringrose for the first try..

There was an illegal turnover by Porter, hands clearly on the ground which led to a try but again that was a separate piece of play which we should have defended.
Another was Porter again, collapsing like a cheap accordion in the scrum but getting the penalty which led to the fourth try. I’ve watching porter do this for years and he gets away with it, so why would he change anything? Schoeman used to have a way of milking penalties by making the tighthead lose their bind, but refs have cottoned on to it.

I know this sounds like sour grapes, I don’t really care, the top teams do get refereed differently and it’s nothing new, dog knows I’ve seen Scotland, Edinburgh and Glasgow benefit from it whilst playing unfancied opposition at home, it is what it is.

We should have defended better is the bottom line for me in all this, Ireland didn’t give us a sniff until the game was pretty much done.

Didn't see the Hansen on Turner. THe one Best highlighted for the first try was Beirne IIRC and at worst that was marginal. As long as Beinre is in a position to receive the ball when Sexton plays it(he was a at least a metre onside) he is allowed to continue his run "within reason". You rarely see that given unless they go well beyond the play.

Again I think that's really on the TMO rather than the ref as he is relying on them for stuff like that. I think the change in how the game is reffed(less drawn out in game TMO analysis) hasn't really sunk in and the refs are getting the blame.

[Jock42]

True but if that's the case, they were cruising for a bruising. You settle the win first. Margin comes later.

100% agree. There have been a bunch of games that have demonstrated this in the RWC - Tonga v Romania today, for example - though generally the margin goes to the stronger team later in the game.

I strongly feel that by not taking points when they were on offer, we allowed Ireland to roll right over us.

Yup. 10 odd minutes of pressure for zero return? Can't say that doesn't hit lower confidence levels particularly against the number 1 side.


Well done Ireland.

[Jock42]

I've always seen Ireland as my second team and would generally support any NH team over a SH, but sadly this Irish team and some of their bandwagoners make them a very hard team to like.

I really should support them due to family ties.

Fuck it, I don't see them that much anyway. Mon Fiji.

[Tichtheid]

There were certainly some dodgy decisions (Keenan clearly being in touch the most annoying). We’d still have lost even if there hadn’t been though.

The simple fact is that we should have defended it better, yes we should have been playing off an attacking 50/22 instead of defending, but we didn’t defend nearly as well as Ireland did.

I was much more pissed off with the one that Rory Best pointed out at half time, Price was taken out by Hansen on one side whilst Turner was body checked by (I think) Sheehan on the other, leaving Gilchrist to defend a 15m gap against Ringrose for the first try..

There was an illegal turnover by Porter, hands clearly on the ground which led to a try but again that was a separate piece of play which we should have defended.
Another was Porter again, collapsing like a cheap accordion in the scrum but getting the penalty which led to the fourth try. I’ve watching porter do this for years and he gets away with it, so why would he change anything? Schoeman used to have a way of milking penalties by making the tighthead lose their bind, but refs have cottoned on to it.

I know this sounds like sour grapes, I don’t really care, the top teams do get refereed differently and it’s nothing new, dog knows I’ve seen Scotland, Edinburgh and Glasgow benefit from it whilst playing unfancied opposition at home, it is what it is.

We should have defended better is the bottom line for me in all this, Ireland didn’t give us a sniff until the game was pretty much done.

Didn't see the Hansen on Turner. THe one Best highlighted for the first try was Beirne IIRC and at worst that was marginal. As long as Beinre is in a position to receive the ball when Sexton plays it(he was a at least a metre onside) he is allowed to continue his run "within reason". You rarely see that given unless they go well beyond the play.

Again I think that's really on the TMO rather than the ref as he is relying on them for stuff like that. I think the change in how the game is reffed(less drawn out in game TMO analysis) hasn't really sunk in and the refs are getting the blame.

The bit I got wrong was that I thought it was Sheehan on Turner, it was in fact Beirne on Turner, Beirne runs way ahead of Ringrose and knocks Turner over, leaving a big gap for Ringrose to run through. Hansen on Price was the marginal part of the same move and on the second and third viewing I've just seen - he looks okay.

"The way it's officiated now" is a much-used hiding place. I'm not going to comment on this any further, it won't change the result and will only lead to bad feeling.

From the teams that are left I'd be more than happy to see France or Ireland win it.