6 Nations Round 3 - Scotland v England

[Tichtheid]

Worth saying that at 9 England are down 3 players in Mitchell, quirke and van poortfliet I would expect to start in front of care.

Scotland were without our best winger

[Biffer]

Worth saying that at 9 England are down 3 players in Mitchell, quirke and van poortfliet I would expect to start in front of care.

Yeah, every time we say that we’re told to suck it up and accept we weren’t good enough.

[Biffer]

Yes? It's been that way for years.

Fair enough, as a dump doesn't seem that dangerous, but years?

Tipping a player through the horizontal has been an auto yellow since at least as far back as the 2011 world cup. The only way it doesn't get penalised is if the tackler holds onto the player they've hit and brings them down safely or re-orients them so that they're no longer tipped. Duhan simply let go of a player he'd tipped, that's a cast iron yellow.

That’s grand. Tell me what difference VDM getting a red would have made to the last ten minutes

[Biffer]

We were just better .

Accept it.don’t squeal.

We have been the better team the last decade.

[petej]

Worth saying that at 9 England are down 3 players in Mitchell, quirke and van poortfliet I would expect to start in front of care.

Scotland were without our best winger

I was vaguely trying to justify Borthwicks decision to start the elderly Care. A pointless endeavour. England selection makes as much sense as numberwang.

[Tichtheid]

Worth saying that at 9 England are down 3 players in Mitchell, quirke and van poortfliet I would expect to start in front of care.

Scotland were without our best winger

I was vaguely trying to justify Borthwicks decision to start the elderly Care. A pointless endeavour. England selection makes as much sense as numberwang.

The "Toonie Tombola" was coined as a phrase when Townsend was head coach at Glasgow, with seemingly head-scratching selections .

The reason for Darcy Graham's absence was just down to him being injured, he's going to miss the whole 6N, unfortunately. We miss him, he's a much much better rugby player than Duhan, but van der Merwe does know where the try line is, as does Graham.

[sockwithaticket]

Fair enough, as a dump doesn't seem that dangerous, but years?

Tipping a player through the horizontal has been an auto yellow since at least as far back as the 2011 world cup. The only way it doesn't get penalised is if the tackler holds onto the player they've hit and brings them down safely or re-orients them so that they're no longer tipped. Duhan simply let go of a player he'd tipped, that's a cast iron yellow.

That’s grand. Tell me what difference VDM getting a red would have made to the last ten minutes

Do you need to take another run at that tomorrow morning when you've sobered up? Nowhere did I suggest VDM should be getting a red.

[Biffer]

Tipping a player through the horizontal has been an auto yellow since at least as far back as the 2011 world cup. The only way it doesn't get penalised is if the tackler holds onto the player they've hit and brings them down safely or re-orients them so that they're no longer tipped. Duhan simply let go of a player he'd tipped, that's a cast iron yellow.

That’s grand. Tell me what difference VDM getting a red would have made to the last ten minutes

Do you need to take another run at that tomorrow morning when you've sobered up? Nowhere did I suggest VDM should be getting a red.

Aye, the beer and whisky were talking a bit last night, apologies for where I was over the top.

[Hal Jordan]

Worth saying that at 9 England are down 3 players in Mitchell, quirke and van poortfliet I would expect to start in front of care.

Also worth saying JVP would have been our first choice scrum half going into the World Cup if not for injury, and he fits Borthwick's idea of what a scrum half should be down to a tee (I.e. his attach coach).

[Paddington Bear]

Watched the game as part of a meet up with some blokes I went to uni with. 4 English, 1 Welsh. All five of our football teams lost. Both rugby teams lost. No one won a bet. One bloke spent lunch talking about his recent investment in a racehorse, it came up lame.
The Monday 7:31 to Aldgate can’t come quick enough

[Yr Alban]

Watched the game as part of a meet up with some blokes I went to uni with. 4 English, 1 Welsh. All five of our football teams lost. Both rugby teams lost. No one won a bet. One bloke spent lunch talking about his recent investment in a racehorse, it came up lame.
The Monday 7:31 to Aldgate can’t come quick enough

Hearts lost 5-0 to Rangers* yesterday. Which actually gave me a good feeling about the rugby, because Hearts and Scotland hardly ever win on the same day. (I was actually anal enough to cross-reference dates over a few decades once, and this really is true, though it may reflect that both teams have been a bit erratic over the years).

[Monk]

To my mind the most important saffa in the Scotland setup is Pieter de Villiers

[Niegs]

To lighten things a bit...

[vball]

Hearts lost 5-0 to Rangers* yesterday. Which actually gave me a good feeling about the rugby, because Hearts and Scotland hardly ever win on the same day. (I was actually anal enough to cross-reference dates over a few decades once, and this really is true, though it may reflect that both teams have been a bit erratic over the years).

Rarely do I get a double header win. Very happy with the rugby win. As for the JT's, we will not get 2nd places, so really did not mean that much. Consolidate 3rd.

[Tichtheid]

Hearts lost 5-0 to Rangers* yesterday. Which actually gave me a good feeling about the rugby, because Hearts and Scotland hardly ever win on the same day. (I was actually anal enough to cross-reference dates over a few decades once, and this really is true, though it may reflect that both teams have been a bit erratic over the years).

Rarely do I get a double header win. Very happy with the rugby win. As for the JT's, we will not get 2nd places, so really did not mean that much. Consolidate 3rd.

vball, were you anywhere near MacGregor’s over the weekend? It was absolutely jumping from the Fb clips I’ve seen, they had a Shetland themed music session

[vball]

Hearts lost 5-0 to Rangers* yesterday. Which actually gave me a good feeling about the rugby, because Hearts and Scotland hardly ever win on the same day. (I was actually anal enough to cross-reference dates over a few decades once, and this really is true, though it may reflect that both teams have been a bit erratic over the years).

Rarely do I get a double header win. Very happy with the rugby win. As for the JT's, we will not get 2nd places, so really did not mean that much. Consolidate 3rd.

vball, were you anywhere near MacGregor’s over the weekend? It was absolutely jumping from the Fb clips I’ve seen, they had a Shetland themed music session

Ha Ha not this weekend sir. It is a superb bar and Bruce, while being a great fiddler, damn decent rugby player, and good lad, also let's the atmosphere flow which results in a great place to be.

[Yr Alban]

Hearts lost 5-0 to Rangers* yesterday. Which actually gave me a good feeling about the rugby, because Hearts and Scotland hardly ever win on the same day. (I was actually anal enough to cross-reference dates over a few decades once, and this really is true, though it may reflect that both teams have been a bit erratic over the years).

Rarely do I get a double header win. Very happy with the rugby win. As for the JT's, we will not get 2nd places, so really did not mean that much. Consolidate 3rd.

I’m still worried about the collapse last season when our form went to shit and we ended up losing 3rd. And although losing at Ibrox is expected, the manner of it was still bad

[Openside]

Scotland were without our best winger

I was vaguely trying to justify Borthwicks decision to start the elderly Care. A pointless endeavour. England selection makes as much sense as numberwang.

The "Toonie Tombola" was coined as a phrase when Townsend was head coach at Glasgow, with seemingly head-scratching selections .

The reason for Darcy Graham's absence was just down to him being injured, he's going to miss the whole 6N, unfortunately. We miss him, he's a much much better rugby player than Duhan, but van der Merwe does know where the try line is, as does Graham.

I doubt Darcy would be selectedahead of Duhan

[Tichtheid]

I was vaguely trying to justify Borthwicks decision to start the elderly Care. A pointless endeavour. England selection makes as much sense as numberwang.

The "Toonie Tombola" was coined as a phrase when Townsend was head coach at Glasgow, with seemingly head-scratching selections .

The reason for Darcy Graham's absence was just down to him being injured, he's going to miss the whole 6N, unfortunately. We miss him, he's a much much better rugby player than Duhan, but van der Merwe does know where the try line is, as does Graham.

I doubt Darcy would be selectedahead of Duhan

That's the beauty of it, they play on opposite wings so we get both

[Yr Alban]

Is Darcy a far better rugby player? He has entirely different attributes. He’s a Shane Williams type player where Duhan is a Lomu type.

There aren’t many players in world rugby who could have scored Duhan’s second try on Saturday.

[Tichtheid]

Is Darcy a far better rugby player? He has entirely different attributes. He’s a Shane Williams type player where Duhan is a Lomu type.

There aren’t many players in world rugby who could have scored Duhan’s second try on Saturday.

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

[Biffer]

Is Darcy a far better rugby player? He has entirely different attributes. He’s a Shane Williams type player where Duhan is a Lomu type.

There aren’t many players in world rugby who could have scored Duhan’s second try on Saturday.

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

[Slick]

Is Darcy a far better rugby player? He has entirely different attributes. He’s a Shane Williams type player where Duhan is a Lomu type.

There aren’t many players in world rugby who could have scored Duhan’s second try on Saturday.

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

[Tichtheid]

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

Sione, he said Duhan is actually shit at rugby

Edit, Correction, Sione was talking on the podcast that Ryan Wilson does with the funny guy whose name escapes me, he’s a prop at, I think, Bristol, Max something

[inactionman]

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

Sione, he said Duhan is actually shit at rugby

Edit, Correction, Sione was talking on the podcast that Ryan Wilson does with the funny guy whose name escapes me, he’s a prop at, I think, Bristol, Max something

Max Lahiff.

The most ripped tighthead I've ever seen.

[Tichtheid]

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

Sione, he said Duhan is actually shit at rugby

Edit, Correction, Sione was talking on the podcast that Ryan Wilson does with the funny guy whose name escapes me, he’s a prop at, I think, Bristol, Max something

Max Lahiff.

The most ripped tighthead I've ever seen.

That’s him, yeah he’s definitely more David Pocock than Ben Tameifuna

[Tichtheid]

Looks like Graham may be out long-term, Sean Everitt is keen to give him as long as it takes and not rush things, which seems like a good approach.

Since the subject game of this thread has gone... I hope we get to see this Darcy again, this is just from 2022

[Yr Alban]

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

I accept all of this! Technically there is no contest. But watching Duhan curve round the outside, effortlessly beat his man, and then burn off all of the remaining defenders, you can’t say he isn’t good at rugby. He is. He’s just very very good at a specific part of it. Lomu was a physical freak (copyright Mr Carling) rather than a complete rugby player too.

Duhan puts me slightly in mind of that bit in Forrest Gump where the quarterback gives him the ball and says ‘run Forrest!’ (and the crowd hold up a sign saying ‘Stop Forrest’!)

[Uncle fester]

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

I accept all of this! Technically there is no contest. But watching Duhan curve round the outside, effortlessly beat his man, and then burn off all of the remaining defenders, you can’t say he isn’t good at rugby. He is. He’s just very very good at a specific part of it. Lomu was a physical freak (copyright Mr Carling) rather than a complete rugby player too.

Duhan puts me slightly in mind of that bit in Forrest Gump where the quarterback gives him the ball and says ‘run Forrest!’ (and the crowd hold up a sign saying ‘Stop Forrest’!)

But isn't that what team sport is all about? You use the weapons you have in the way that works best.

[Yr Alban]

Didn't BK basically say in the Netflix documentary that Duhan either doesn't understand or isn't interested in the finer points of the game, he's just has an instinct for running and scoring. They have tried to coach more into him but in the end just let him do what he does. Like all things there is probably a bit of truth and a bit of overplaying it - he has certainly improved his defensive positioning etc - but you can see it when he plays.

I accept all of this! Technically there is no contest. But watching Duhan curve round the outside, effortlessly beat his man, and then burn off all of the remaining defenders, you can’t say he isn’t good at rugby. He is. He’s just very very good at a specific part of it. Lomu was a physical freak (copyright Mr Carling) rather than a complete rugby player too.

Duhan puts me slightly in mind of that bit in Forrest Gump where the quarterback gives him the ball and says ‘run Forrest!’ (and the crowd hold up a sign saying ‘Stop Forrest’!)

But isn't that what team sport is all about? You use the weapons you have in the way that works best.

Of course - and rugby used to have a place for all shapes and sizes. The fat kid, the scrawny kid, the tall skinny kid. Still does at amateur level I’m sure, but no longer really the case at pro level.

[Raggs]

I accept all of this! Technically there is no contest. But watching Duhan curve round the outside, effortlessly beat his man, and then burn off all of the remaining defenders, you can’t say he isn’t good at rugby. He is. He’s just very very good at a specific part of it. Lomu was a physical freak (copyright Mr Carling) rather than a complete rugby player too.

Duhan puts me slightly in mind of that bit in Forrest Gump where the quarterback gives him the ball and says ‘run Forrest!’ (and the crowd hold up a sign saying ‘Stop Forrest’!)

But isn't that what team sport is all about? You use the weapons you have in the way that works best.

Of course - and rugby used to have a place for all shapes and sizes. The fat kid, the scrawny kid, the tall skinny kid. Still does at amateur level I’m sure, but no longer really the case at pro level.

Elite level athletes, playing at elite level, in being elite athletes shocker...

[sockwithaticket]

I accept all of this! Technically there is no contest. But watching Duhan curve round the outside, effortlessly beat his man, and then burn off all of the remaining defenders, you can’t say he isn’t good at rugby. He is. He’s just very very good at a specific part of it. Lomu was a physical freak (copyright Mr Carling) rather than a complete rugby player too.

Duhan puts me slightly in mind of that bit in Forrest Gump where the quarterback gives him the ball and says ‘run Forrest!’ (and the crowd hold up a sign saying ‘Stop Forrest’!)

But isn't that what team sport is all about? You use the weapons you have in the way that works best.

Of course - and rugby used to have a place for all shapes and sizes. The fat kid, the scrawny kid, the tall skinny kid. Still does at amateur level I’m sure, but no longer really the case at pro level.

Using English examples because I'm most familiar with them, but Chessum, Ford/either of the Smiths and George existing in the same team rather suggests that it is.

We're mostly past the days of truly scrawny beanpoles and pot-bellied props because actually being a professional athlete tends to be incompatible with retaining that sort of physique, but there are clearly build diffrences in the professional ranks.

[Uncle fester]

Some fine salt in these tears.

[Tichtheid]

Some fine salt in these tears.

Here's the full article, there is so much wrong with it, it's difficult to know where to begin

https://archive.is/ubbmr

[petej]

Some fine salt in these tears.

Here's the full article, there is so much wrong with it, it's difficult to know where to begin

https://archive.is/ubbmr

People move around so much more that there are multiple options for many. This really comes down to England being poor for which they have little excuse considering the player base. The Telegraph is probably not whinging about declan rice playing for England.

[Big D]

Is Darcy a far better rugby player? He has entirely different attributes. He’s a Shane Williams type player where Duhan is a Lomu type.

There aren’t many players in world rugby who could have scored Duhan’s second try on Saturday.

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

The try scoring rate doesn't tell the whole story to be fair. Darcy has a lot of tries v Romania, Tonga and Georgia (9 in 5) and 14 if including Japan and Italy in that. Duhan has a lot of tries in big games that we would be in real danger of losing but for him doing something special. He has scored in all the big away 6N wins.

Both are very good. Graham more rounded but Duhan more devastating. That is probably why they make a good partnership. Both of them are so far ahead of Steyn but there seems a consistent minority on the offside line comments and twitter calling for one of Van Der Graham to be dropped for Steyn which absolutely baffles me.

Both should be in Lions contention.

[Tichtheid]

I think Darcy’s positioning, tackling, catching, passing, reading of the game and hunger for work are all better than Duhan’s. He is just as good going forward and his footwork is exceptional in tight spaces, he can also knock a man over but there are limitations due to the laws of physics, in that respect Duhan is obviously ahead.

Graham’s injuries are a bit of a concern, I really hope he gets back to where he was in 2022, he only 26.

They’ve scored at roughly the same rate in international rugby. Graham is two years younger. And realistically there only one of them you’d ever think you’d see jackalling for the ball after a tackle.

The try scoring rate doesn't tell the whole story to be fair. Darcy has a lot of tries v Romania, Tonga and Georgia (9 in 5) and 14 if including Japan and Italy in that. Duhan has a lot of tries in big games that we would be in real danger of losing but for him doing something special. He has scored in all the big away 6N wins.

Both are very good. Graham more rounded but Duhan more devastating. That is probably why they make a good partnership. Both of them are so far ahead of Steyn but there seems a consistent minority on the offside line comments and twitter calling for one of Van Der Graham to be dropped for Steyn which absolutely baffles me.

Both should be in Lions contention.

To be fair vdM has boosted his total against minnows too, he’s got six against England now.

[Biffer]

Is this the wrong time to remind everyone that we beat England at cricket last time we played them as well?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

A similar reliance on English and South African players?

[Biffer]

A similar reliance on English and South African players?

Salty tears. Gather them up for us, won’t you?