A place where escape goats go to play
https://notplanetrugby.com/
Yeah it looked like they had a good crowd in, & braais were going, everyone was enjoying the day out with the family.OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:29 pm Stormers playing in Stellenbosch and PE. It's great for them.
Stellenbosch is a Varsity crowd. They pull 10,000 when the Varsity Cup is on. Rich in rugby culture and history in Danie Craven's home town. Paul Roos and the famous Maties, mighty Maroonrugby machines. A Munster supporter will feel at home.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:53 pmYeah it looked like they had a good crowd in, & braais were going, everyone was enjoying the day out with the family.OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:29 pm Stormers playing in Stellenbosch and PE. It's great for them.
GAA heads in Ulster are more than just a bit different though. Don't know how much support there would be to let rugby into their stadiums, and even if they got it there'd be a backlash.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 7:41 pmThe Leinster guys get the shakes if they're more than a Ben Youngs pass away from the Horse ShowUncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:57 pmI thought the place was dog rough but it is a great idea. Whatever about Leinster but Ulster are really missing a trick playing all their games in Belfast.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:47 pm
https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2024/11/19 ... gby-clash/
I think matches like this are a great idea.
If you're a provincial team, then you need to have some matches out on the road, & MacHale is great venue, & Castlebar a lovely town, & Rugby seems to be going from strength to strength in Mayo, so getting families in the area in for the game would be brilliant, & they'll have more capacity than they would have in Galway, so they can do a bunch of family ticket lotteries etc in schools, & bring them if for next to nothing.
I think a minor roadtrip is in the offing for a night out in Castlebar
Well then remind them that Casement park can stay a wreck as far as we’re concerned, because wasn’t the whole point with it to host soccer matches there too ?PornDog wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 1:40 pmGAA heads in Ulster are more than just a bit different though. Don't know how much support there would be to let rugby into their stadiums, and even if they got it there'd be a backlash.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 7:41 pmThe Leinster guys get the shakes if they're more than a Ben Youngs pass away from the Horse ShowUncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:57 pm
I thought the place was dog rough but it is a great idea. Whatever about Leinster but Ulster are really missing a trick playing all their games in Belfast.
He's got that the wrong way round. The Welsh teams and supporters being pish is the biggest drawback of the URC.Slick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm I see the Walrus is having another tantrum in the papers today. The URC is an “abysmal” league and one of the main reasons Wales are crap.
He also mentioned that George Ford, Fin Smith and Charlie Atkinson!!!!! should be ahead of Marcus Smith as England's fly half because the other backs can't read his playsSlick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm I see the Walrus is having another tantrum in the papers today. The URC is an “abysmal” league and one of the main reasons Wales are crap.
To be fair he does also say Saffer supporters are cunts so maybe we shouldn’t judge him too harshly
Thankfully we don’t get his full repertoire every week up hereSaintK wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:44 pmHe also mentioned that George Ford, Fin Smith and Charlie Atkinson!!!!! should be ahead of Marcus Smith as England's fly half because the other backs can't read his playsSlick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm I see the Walrus is having another tantrum in the papers today. The URC is an “abysmal” league and one of the main reasons Wales are crap.
To be fair he does also say Saffer supporters are cunts so maybe we shouldn’t judge him too harshly
Cardiff and Llanelli are basically just continuations of clubs though, you would think that should be a foundation to build on.PornDog wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 3:11 pm The Welsh issue isn't really with the URC (or its prior itterations), it's with their own regions which they've never taken to. The league is just a handy outlet!
True, but the other 90% of Welsh rugby fans feel some degree or another that they've been abandoned/are too stubborn to row in with everyone else.robmatic wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:56 amCardiff and Llanelli are basically just continuations of clubs though, you would think that should be a foundation to build on.PornDog wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 3:11 pm The Welsh issue isn't really with the URC (or its prior itterations), it's with their own regions which they've never taken to. The league is just a handy outlet!
You can always start measuring rugby culture with the local derbies. Stormers vs Bulls will draw maximum crowds no matter if they clash 10 times in 1 season. Suppose the same goes with Munster vs Leinster.PornDog wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:51 amTrue, but the other 90% of Welsh rugby fans feel some degree or another that they've been abandoned/are too stubborn to row in with everyone else.robmatic wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:56 amCardiff and Llanelli are basically just continuations of clubs though, you would think that should be a foundation to build on.PornDog wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 3:11 pm The Welsh issue isn't really with the URC (or its prior itterations), it's with their own regions which they've never taken to. The league is just a handy outlet!
That in turn affects the likes of Cardiff and Llanelli. Shitness doesn't help either of course.
Glasgow and Munster have a nice burgeoning rivalry, as do Edinburgh and Ulster (must be a Saffa thing!). That never existed before. The world is what you make of it, and if all you make is depressing shit then that'll be your lot!
I naturally compare it with things in Scotland, where the SRU did make an arse of the regions at the dawn of professionalisation but Glasgow and Edinburgh have since both developed real followings. When I first got a season ticket for Edinburgh there would be about 1500 of us in Murrayfield some games and now they get a minimum of four times that despite underachieving on the pitch for an entire decade.PornDog wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:51 amTrue, but the other 90% of Welsh rugby fans feel some degree or another that they've been abandoned/are too stubborn to row in with everyone else.robmatic wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:56 amCardiff and Llanelli are basically just continuations of clubs though, you would think that should be a foundation to build on.PornDog wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 3:11 pm The Welsh issue isn't really with the URC (or its prior itterations), it's with their own regions which they've never taken to. The league is just a handy outlet!
That in turn affects the likes of Cardiff and Llanelli. Shitness doesn't help either of course.
Glasgow and Munster have a nice burgeoning rivalry, as do Edinburgh and Ulster (must be a Saffa thing!). That never existed before. The world is what you make of it, and if all you make is depressing shit then that'll be your lot!
Had a hate read. Article very thin on content on how to actually improve Welsh rugby. Of all his opinions the one he's been most wrong on is the one he gets called out on the least. It turns out the English Premiership isn't the best league, that's partly a subjective view but not many objective metrics anyone could come up with would put the EP top. It turns out that transnational plastic competitions run by national unions that play basketball rugby (this is how he views Super Rugby and now presumably the URC), do produce the strongest international teams, again a partly subjective view but again any number of objective metrics on national team performance do show this.Slick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm I see the Walrus is having another tantrum in the papers today. The URC is an “abysmal” league and one of the main reasons Wales are crap.
Had a hate read. Very silly, says in the match report Bok fans don't applaud injured opposition players. As they say every accusation is a confession. What the UK press dislike about us, is that we're ungovernable. It's Brendan Venter eating the biscuit, it's Rassie saying "Sir" means nothing in SA (in response to a journo asking him about some Woodward comments). Stupid game to play. Zavos the Aussie rugby journo also got frustrated with being ignored by us and resorted to some edgy takes to get noticed by us - which granted did work - ended up with a section of our fanbase taking that as the green light, finding out everything about him and his family sending death threats/racism etc, Zavos literally had to publicly beg them to stop.Slick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm To be fair he does also say Saffer supporters are cunts so maybe we shouldn’t judge him too harshly
Very true. In South Africa its very easy. Rugby culture starts with the 7 year olds.I have seen this so mant times. If I can take Paul Roos as example. They always have about 20+ teams. For years their 1st team produce in the top 5. But overall they won only 5 matches against the top schools losing 15 teams. Corne Uys came in as DiR and work with all the age group coaches . Take three years and last year they were nr1 and undefeated and in total only a few teams lost. Same goes as Ox explained. Wales need to be healthy from bottom to top. Only gain with pain._Os_ wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 2:03 pm
What they should be doing is getting their structures and player pathways as good as they can be. Which means investing in their own coaches. Somewhere like Wales with a large amount of clubs and players, then doesn't need to recruit foreign players and doesn't need to worry about keeping their best players. A lot of things will fall into place for them if they make the foundations as strong possible. Which also means the best coach for the national side, will be one that has been involved with the age grade structures and literally knows all the players. The best Bok coaches this century have been Jake White, Peter de Villiers, Rassie and Jacques. They were all involved with the age grade teams before being national coach and then won titles at test level, HM and AC did well in Super Rugby and won nothing. Rassie and Jacques have been involved in the age grade structures since 2013, they built a lot of those structures, the reason the Boks now have extreme squad depth is the national coaching team has known a lot of the players since they were boys and has no restrictions on who they can pick.
SA gets a lot of schools and varsity rugby, the club system needs more work though part of the player pool isn't being used fully.OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 3:28 pmVery true. In South Africa its very easy. Rugby culture starts with the 7 year olds.I have seen this so mant times. If I can take Paul Roos as example. They always have about 20+ teams. For years their 1st team produce in the top 5. But overall they won only 5 matches against the top schools losing 15 teams. Corne Uys came in as DiR and work with all the age group coaches . Take three years and last year they were nr1 and undefeated and in total only a few teams lost. Same goes as Ox explained. Wales need to be healthy from bottom to top. Only gain with pain._Os_ wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 2:03 pm
What they should be doing is getting their structures and player pathways as good as they can be. Which means investing in their own coaches. Somewhere like Wales with a large amount of clubs and players, then doesn't need to recruit foreign players and doesn't need to worry about keeping their best players. A lot of things will fall into place for them if they make the foundations as strong possible. Which also means the best coach for the national side, will be one that has been involved with the age grade structures and literally knows all the players. The best Bok coaches this century have been Jake White, Peter de Villiers, Rassie and Jacques. They were all involved with the age grade teams before being national coach and then won titles at test level, HM and AC did well in Super Rugby and won nothing. Rassie and Jacques have been involved in the age grade structures since 2013, they built a lot of those structures, the reason the Boks now have extreme squad depth is the national coaching team has known a lot of the players since they were boys and has no restrictions on who they can pick.
You seem to say that last bit with pride?_Os_ wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 2:03 pmHad a hate read. Article very thin on content on how to actually improve Welsh rugby. Of all his opinions the one he's been most wrong on is the one he gets called out on the least. It turns out the English Premiership isn't the best league, that's partly a subjective view but not many objective metrics anyone could come up with would put the EP top. It turns out that transnational plastic competitions run by national unions that play basketball rugby (this is how he views Super Rugby and now presumably the URC), do produce the strongest international teams, again a partly subjective view but again any number of objective metrics on national team performance do show this.Slick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm I see the Walrus is having another tantrum in the papers today. The URC is an “abysmal” league and one of the main reasons Wales are crap.
In that article on Welsh rugby he's trying to be serious, it's not a trolling article. But he's so one eyed he cannot even recognise when he gets it wrong, let alone reassess mistakes then change his views. He's serious about not rating the URC, just as he's serious about dismissing Super Rugby. It's why he says in the article Welsh regions need to improve their finances to buy "influential foreign players". which is the EP/Top14 model. Wasting money paying a fortune to one player and particularly a foreign player, is precisely not what Wales should be doing. Nor should they really be worrying about some of their top players leaving Wales to earn fortune in England/France/Japan, choosing not to select them for Wales is a choice.
What they should be doing is getting their structures and player pathways as good as they can be. Which means investing in their own coaches. Somewhere like Wales with a large amount of clubs and players, then doesn't need to recruit foreign players and doesn't need to worry about keeping their best players. A lot of things will fall into place for them if they make the foundations as strong possible. Which also means the best coach for the national side, will be one that has been involved with the age grade structures and literally knows all the players. The best Bok coaches this century have been Jake White, Peter de Villiers, Rassie and Jacques. They were all involved with the age grade teams before being national coach and then won titles at test level, HM and AC did well in Super Rugby and won nothing. Rassie and Jacques have been involved in the age grade structures since 2013, they built a lot of those structures, the reason the Boks now have extreme squad depth is the national coaching team has known a lot of the players since they were boys and has no restrictions on who they can pick.
I could go on, but Jones isn't trolling and is wrong on everything in that article.Had a hate read. Very silly, says in the match report Bok fans don't applaud injured opposition players. As they say every accusation is a confession. What the UK press dislike about us, is that we're ungovernable. It's Brendan Venter eating the biscuit, it's Rassie saying "Sir" means nothing in SA (in response to a journo asking him about some Woodward comments). Stupid game to play. Zavos the Aussie rugby journo also got frustrated with being ignored by us and resorted to some edgy takes to get noticed by us - which granted did work - ended up with a section of our fanbase taking that as the green light, finding out everything about him and his family sending death threats/racism etc, Zavos literally had to publicly beg them to stop.Slick wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:17 pm To be fair he does also say Saffer supporters are cunts so maybe we shouldn’t judge him too harshly
Sounds like I'm being accused of something!
Sounds a lot like some angry news presenter asking some lowly Palestinian activist "before we start, DO YOU CONDEMN THE TERRORISTS ACTIONS OF HAMAS!!!". Which always starts proceedings on an odd footing.Slick wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:24 pmNot necessarily accused, but death threats to someone’s family seems a decent area to slap down a red line
And a lot of mediocre players at the regions.Uncle fester wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:26 pm Plenty of talent in Welsh rugby. I've seen enough of their clubs to see some outrageously talented players who should be playing at a higher level but that's where the culture breaks down.
Despite the WRU bringing in more revenue than the IRFU, they tend to piss it away very poorly. Instead of investing in grass roots facilities and coaching, they're covering amateur players club dues and bar tabs across the country.robmatic wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:52 pmAnd a lot of mediocre players at the regions.Uncle fester wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:26 pm Plenty of talent in Welsh rugby. I've seen enough of their clubs to see some outrageously talented players who should be playing at a higher level but that's where the culture breaks down.
I read that semipro level in Wales pays surprisingly well.
Wales = Not a player issue. It's a transmission of young players between their club player base and URC pro contract issue, then after that a funding/resources issue in the URC sides. They have the players and interest though, so it can be turned around.PornDog wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:02 pmDespite the WRU bringing in more revenue than the IRFU, they tend to piss it away very poorly. Instead of investing in grass roots facilities and coaching, they're covering amateur players club dues and bar tabs across the country.robmatic wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:52 pmAnd a lot of mediocre players at the regions.Uncle fester wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:26 pm Plenty of talent in Welsh rugby. I've seen enough of their clubs to see some outrageously talented players who should be playing at a higher level but that's where the culture breaks down.
I read that semipro level in Wales pays surprisingly well.
I suspect Wales and Australia (and to a lesser extent Munster), have too much of the amateur era blazers with far too much of a say in the organisations running.
Dr Phil learnt a lot just as a player, & he's managed to learn from Cheika too, in both operations. The Argentina situation is a lot like Scotland, & Wales; they have a small player pool, & have to let their players play abroad, as they just don't have a setup that can finance keeping them at home._Os_ wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:24 pmWales = Not a player issue. It's a transmission of young players between their club player base and URC pro contract issue, then after that a funding/resources issue in the URC sides. They have the players and interest though, so it can be turned around.PornDog wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:02 pmDespite the WRU bringing in more revenue than the IRFU, they tend to piss it away very poorly. Instead of investing in grass roots facilities and coaching, they're covering amateur players club dues and bar tabs across the country.robmatic wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:52 pm
And a lot of mediocre players at the regions.
I read that semipro level in Wales pays surprisingly well.
I suspect Wales and Australia (and to a lesser extent Munster), have too much of the amateur era blazers with far too much of a say in the organisations running.
Wobblies = Fundamental problem is it's not a big sport in Australia, but their admins have always behaved like it is or could be, without building the things which could maybe grow the sport there (all the failures they've had down the years establishing a national comp below Super Rugby). Worse their admins often do get what they want from SANZAAR, they've often ended up wearing the clothes too big for them which they asked for. They had 5 Super Rugby sides at one point. Probably a lot they could learn from the Irish and Scottish structures, they've both got smaller player pools too, not sure they've got that in them. An Aussie RWC winning coach doesn't become an assistant coach at Leinster to learn new things.
The crucial element is the throughput, how many teenage male players there are playing XV rugby in a club or school structure which can lead to a pro contract. Most pro players are contracted in some way by age 20.fishfoodie wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:07 pmDr Phil learnt a lot just as a player, & he's managed to learn from Cheika too, in both operations. The Argentina situation is a lot like Scotland, & Wales; they have a small player pool, & have to let their players play abroad, as they just don't have a setup that can finance keeping them at home._Os_ wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:24 pmWales = Not a player issue. It's a transmission of young players between their club player base and URC pro contract issue, then after that a funding/resources issue in the URC sides. They have the players and interest though, so it can be turned around.PornDog wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:02 pm
Despite the WRU bringing in more revenue than the IRFU, they tend to piss it away very poorly. Instead of investing in grass roots facilities and coaching, they're covering amateur players club dues and bar tabs across the country.
I suspect Wales and Australia (and to a lesser extent Munster), have too much of the amateur era blazers with far too much of a say in the organisations running.
Wobblies = Fundamental problem is it's not a big sport in Australia, but their admins have always behaved like it is or could be, without building the things which could maybe grow the sport there (all the failures they've had down the years establishing a national comp below Super Rugby). Worse their admins often do get what they want from SANZAAR, they've often ended up wearing the clothes too big for them which they asked for. They had 5 Super Rugby sides at one point. Probably a lot they could learn from the Irish and Scottish structures, they've both got smaller player pools too, not sure they've got that in them. An Aussie RWC winning coach doesn't become an assistant coach at Leinster to learn new things.
Ja, some of it looks cooked. But what else is there to go on?Tichtheid wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 12:35 am I think those wiki numbers for players and clubs have been debunked several times over the years when this subject has come up.
The Scottish numbers are pure hokum, and I've heard from English contributors online that the numbers for them are too.
Might Munster use the ground in Cork for a big game? 40k capacity, recently redeveloped, looks pretty good. Dragging Leinster over to Cork for a game with a big crowd would be great. The park in Waterford is being redeveloped at the moment as well, so I've just found out.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 7:41 pmThe Leinster guys get the shakes if they're more than a Ben Youngs pass away from the Horse ShowUncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:57 pmI thought the place was dog rough but it is a great idea. Whatever about Leinster but Ulster are really missing a trick playing all their games in Belfast.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:47 pm
https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2024/11/19 ... gby-clash/
I think matches like this are a great idea.
If you're a provincial team, then you need to have some matches out on the road, & MacHale is great venue, & Castlebar a lovely town, & Rugby seems to be going from strength to strength in Mayo, so getting families in the area in for the game would be brilliant, & they'll have more capacity than they would have in Galway, so they can do a bunch of family ticket lotteries etc in schools, & bring them if for next to nothing.
I think a minor roadtrip is in the offing for a night out in Castlebar
Don't know if the size difference between Thomond and Pairc Ui Caoimh (about 18k extra) would merit the extra rental costs they'd have to pay. Should probably still do it anyway, but it wouldn't be as cut and dried as the extra 30k Leinster get from moving from Aviva to Croke Park (or the 32k extra going from the RDS to the Aviva).Biffer wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:55 pmMight Munster use the ground in Cork for a big game? 40k capacity, recently redeveloped, looks pretty good. Dragging Leinster over to Cork for a game with a big crowd would be great. The park in Waterford is being redeveloped at the moment as well, so I've just found out.fishfoodie wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 7:41 pmThe Leinster guys get the shakes if they're more than a Ben Youngs pass away from the Horse ShowUncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:57 pm
I thought the place was dog rough but it is a great idea. Whatever about Leinster but Ulster are really missing a trick playing all their games in Belfast.