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You may be right. I still think Ioane is the future back up to Mo’unga. More creative, I reckon, than those others you have mentioned.
For sure. He's clearly very talented, and hopefully this was just a temporary slump. I'm sure he'll still be a contender next year.
Temporary slump? Since 2017?Gumboot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:03 amFor sure. He's clearly very talented, and hopefully this was just a temporary slump. I'm sure he'll still be a contender next year.
We're discussing Josh Ioane.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:19 amTemporary slump? Since 2017?
Sounds like he has full rights at 10 for half a game.
“I do take a lot of pride in my prep throughout the week and I do feel that with the number of trainings we have, it’s usually enough to get everything right for the weekend no matter what position I’m in, however, I do feel that preparing at 10 and then pushing out to 15 for the latter part of the game is easier mentally rather than going the other way around,” he said.
“You just feel a little bit more involved running the game and you’re close to the core and the heart of the team being at 10 versus being at the back at 15 and then coming in to control the game later on.”
Sounds like Barrett to the 10 jersey is what Donald Trump is to the US Presidency.Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:50 am On BB. Apols if RR
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/no-10-or ... abbatical/
This part was telling about how he approaches the game in terms of assuming roles.
Sounds like he has full rights at 10 for half a game.
“I do take a lot of pride in my prep throughout the week and I do feel that with the number of trainings we have, it’s usually enough to get everything right for the weekend no matter what position I’m in, however, I do feel that preparing at 10 and then pushing out to 15 for the latter part of the game is easier mentally rather than going the other way around,” he said.
“You just feel a little bit more involved running the game and you’re close to the core and the heart of the team being at 10 versus being at the back at 15 and then coming in to control the game later on.”
This is BB openly challenging Ian Foster. This is him demanding his beloved no.10 jersey, his precious, and laying down a direct challenge to Foster to dare picking him elsewhere. I've followed Rugby my entire life and I don't think I've ever seen a player threaten a coach so openly and so publicly with regards to selection.Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:50 am On BB. Apols if RR
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/no-10-or ... abbatical/
This part was telling about how he approaches the game in terms of assuming roles.
Sounds like he has full rights at 10 for half a game.
“I do take a lot of pride in my prep throughout the week and I do feel that with the number of trainings we have, it’s usually enough to get everything right for the weekend no matter what position I’m in, however, I do feel that preparing at 10 and then pushing out to 15 for the latter part of the game is easier mentally rather than going the other way around,” he said.
“You just feel a little bit more involved running the game and you’re close to the core and the heart of the team being at 10 versus being at the back at 15 and then coming in to control the game later on.”
I wish he was half as assertive on the field at 10 as he is off it.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:32 amThis is BB openly challenging Ian Foster. This is him demanding his beloved no.10 jersey, his precious, and laying down a direct challenge to Foster to dare picking him elsewhere. I've followed Rugby my entire life and I don't think I've ever seen a player threaten a coach so openly and so publicly with regards to selection.Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:50 am On BB. Apols if RR
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/no-10-or ... abbatical/
This part was telling about how he approaches the game in terms of assuming roles.
Sounds like he has full rights at 10 for half a game.
“I do take a lot of pride in my prep throughout the week and I do feel that with the number of trainings we have, it’s usually enough to get everything right for the weekend no matter what position I’m in, however, I do feel that preparing at 10 and then pushing out to 15 for the latter part of the game is easier mentally rather than going the other way around,” he said.
“You just feel a little bit more involved running the game and you’re close to the core and the heart of the team being at 10 versus being at the back at 15 and then coming in to control the game later on.”
This outrage will sail comfortably over the heads of the know-nothing legion of adoring Barrett fans and all but a few of the cosy Kiwi clique of rugby journos. Barrett's biggest journo fluffer Marc Hinton will probably use it as some sort of evidence that Barrett should be picked at 10 from the get go next season.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:32 amThis is BB openly challenging Ian Foster. This is him demanding his beloved no.10 jersey, his precious, and laying down a direct challenge to Foster to dare picking him elsewhere. I've followed Rugby my entire life and I don't think I've ever seen a player threaten a coach so openly and so publicly with regards to selection.Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:50 am On BB. Apols if RR
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/no-10-or ... abbatical/
This part was telling about how he approaches the game in terms of assuming roles.
Sounds like he has full rights at 10 for half a game.
“I do take a lot of pride in my prep throughout the week and I do feel that with the number of trainings we have, it’s usually enough to get everything right for the weekend no matter what position I’m in, however, I do feel that preparing at 10 and then pushing out to 15 for the latter part of the game is easier mentally rather than going the other way around,” he said.
“You just feel a little bit more involved running the game and you’re close to the core and the heart of the team being at 10 versus being at the back at 15 and then coming in to control the game later on.”
Yep his is just another opinion, I really only posted it to show that there plenty of different ones, hell Leon MacDonald always says he's a 10 who get's stuck at 15, (because of lack of 15s) his like Mains is just an opinion too, whether these jokers who actually coach etc, know more than the posters on here is also just an opinion.FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:15 am Laurie is being a bit daft there.
I’m a moderate. I don’t think Beauden should be a 10 at all. I also don’t think he’s a lowlife who is issuing ultimatums, undermining his teammates and sabotaging what would otherwise be a sensible game plan from the coaching team.
Don’t forget that it was Laurie Mains’ opinion that Marc Ellis would make a great All Black first five. His judgment on the requirements of the position is highly suspect.Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:37 amYep his is just another opinionFujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:15 am Laurie is being a bit daft there.
I’m a moderate. I don’t think Beauden should be a 10 at all. I also don’t think he’s a lowlife who is issuing ultimatums, undermining his teammates and sabotaging what would otherwise be a sensible game plan from the coaching team.
Indeed. He also omitted Graeme Bachop for two seasons, preferring such luminaries of the game as Ant Strachan and Jon Preston.FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:45 amDon’t forget that it was Laurie Mains’ opinion that Marc Ellis would make a great All Black first five. His judgment on the requirements of the position is highly suspect.Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:37 amYep his is just another opinionFujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:15 am Laurie is being a bit daft there.
I’m a moderate. I don’t think Beauden should be a 10 at all. I also don’t think he’s a lowlife who is issuing ultimatums, undermining his teammates and sabotaging what would otherwise be a sensible game plan from the coaching team.
Pretty sure it was Earl Kirton who reckoned Ellis would be a world class 10.Certain Navigator wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:59 amIndeed. He also omitted Graeme Bachop for two seasons, preferring such luminaries of the game as Ant Strachan and Jon Preston.
Mains' strengths were always in coaching; in selecting he often didn't seem to have a clue.
I not agreeing or disagreeing, I was no Mains fan, though to be fair I not sure any opinions on here come from a better place of knowledge than his . Same as Leon MacDonald he was also of the same opinion about BB, so do we write him off ?FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:45 amDon’t forget that it was Laurie Mains’ opinion that Marc Ellis would make a great All Black first five. His judgment on the requirements of the position is highly suspect.Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:37 amYep his is just another opinionFujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:15 am Laurie is being a bit daft there.
I’m a moderate. I don’t think Beauden should be a 10 at all. I also don’t think he’s a lowlife who is issuing ultimatums, undermining his teammates and sabotaging what would otherwise be a sensible game plan from the coaching team.
History shows Mains was capable of making idiotic selection calls. There’s no school of thought out there that believes the choice of Marc Ellis at 10 was a good one.
Unless you've bought into AC's "Beauden arrogantly demands to be picked at 10 or else!" hyperbole, I can't really see anything wrong with a player expressing a preference for playing one position over another.mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:16 am If Beauden Barrett isn't good enough to mentally get his head around the role he is given to start the game and let go of control in the position he is selected to play, then he simply shouldn't be selected there.
I really can't ever remember a player, let alone a senior player, coming out and saying 'pick me here' so bluntly. Usually it's either a coy 'I'm just happy to be selected' or 'I'll play in any position if it helps the team'.
Between this and Sam Cane's comments, the All Blacks media/PR advisor has certainly got their hands full.
It's interesting that the shrill conspiracy theories about the Barretts and their presence on the team never extends to criticism of Scott Barrett, with his years of inconsistent performances punctuated by match-losing brain explosions. What makes him exempt? Why isn't he subjected to the same vitriol?
Scooter is a hardworking, honest, dumbarse forward. Not some flashy back like his brothers., that’s why. It’s not rocket surgery bro.FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:38 amIt's interesting that the shrill conspiracy theories about the Barretts and their presence on the team never extends to criticism of Scott Barrett, with his years of inconsistent performances punctuated by match-losing brain explosions. What makes him exempt? Why isn't he subjected to the same vitriol?
His comments about preferring to prepare at 10 and then move back later cast a new light on why he injects himself at first receiver a lot in the first quarter. That’s doing more than just expressing a preference, it’s enacting that preference on the field. Perhaps he has been given the ok to do that but it doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the ABs go better when he settles down and goes to his position of fullback. I’m with mrbrownstone, this is about being good enough to get his head around his role.Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:23 amUnless you've bought into AC's "Beauden arrogantly demands to be picked at 10 or else!" hyperbole, I can't really see anything wrong with a player expressing a preference for playing one position over another.mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:16 am If Beauden Barrett isn't good enough to mentally get his head around the role he is given to start the game and let go of control in the position he is selected to play, then he simply shouldn't be selected there.
I really can't ever remember a player, let alone a senior player, coming out and saying 'pick me here' so bluntly. Usually it's either a coy 'I'm just happy to be selected' or 'I'll play in any position if it helps the team'.
Between this and Sam Cane's comments, the All Blacks media/PR advisor has certainly got their hands full.
The thing is B.Barrett isn't even the best fullback in NZ anymore. If he isn't willing to commit to the fullback role and wants to continue cramping Mo'unga's game by shoving himself into 1st receiver.. we have plenty of better fullbacks (J.Barrett, W.Jordan, D.Havili) who are younger & got a lot more good years ahead of them. Barrett is 29 and fair to say past his best.Jb1981 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:01 amHis comments about preferring to prepare at 10 and then move back later cast a new light on why he injects himself at first receiver a lot in the first quarter. That’s doing more than just expressing a preference, it’s enacting that preference on the field. Perhaps he has been given the ok to do that but it doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the ABs go better when he settles down and goes to his position of fullback.Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:23 amUnless you've bought into AC's "Beauden arrogantly demands to be picked at 10 or else!" hyperbole, I can't really see anything wrong with a player expressing a preference for playing one position over another.mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:16 am If Beauden Barrett isn't good enough to mentally get his head around the role he is given to start the game and let go of control in the position he is selected to play, then he simply shouldn't be selected there.
I really can't ever remember a player, let alone a senior player, coming out and saying 'pick me here' so bluntly. Usually it's either a coy 'I'm just happy to be selected' or 'I'll play in any position if it helps the team'.
Between this and Sam Cane's comments, the All Blacks media/PR advisor has certainly got their hands full.
I'd only have Will Jordan ahead of him at fullback. Much as I like Havili too... BB is still a class player... and personally I like a strike runner at fullback...wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:24 amThe thing is B.Barrett isn't even the best fullback in NZ anymore. If he isn't willing to commit to the fullback role and wants to continue cramping Mo'unga's game by shoving himself into 1st receiver.. we have plenty of better fullbacks (J.Barrett, W.Jordan, D.Havili) who are younger & got a lot more good years ahead of them. Barrett is 29 and fair to say past his best.Jb1981 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:01 amHis comments about preferring to prepare at 10 and then move back later cast a new light on why he injects himself at first receiver a lot in the first quarter. That’s doing more than just expressing a preference, it’s enacting that preference on the field. Perhaps he has been given the ok to do that but it doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the ABs go better when he settles down and goes to his position of fullback.
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:45 amDon’t forget that it was Laurie Mains’ opinion that Marc Ellis would make a great All Black first five. His judgment on the requirements of the position is highly suspect.Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:37 amYep his is just another opinionFujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:15 am Laurie is being a bit daft there.
I’m a moderate. I don’t think Beauden should be a 10 at all. I also don’t think he’s a lowlife who is issuing ultimatums, undermining his teammates and sabotaging what would otherwise be a sensible game plan from the coaching team.
An experiment trialled at test level no less, against Scotland and England on an end of year tour. “Ever since I started working with Steve Hansen in 2012 we’ve always tried to work on a two-sided attack whether it was Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Beauden Barrett or Damian McKenzie,” he told the Herald.
“It’s having the skillset of the 15 to run the other side of the ruck and create running and kicking options that help defuse defences.
“There’s nothing new to what we’ve been trying to do in that space.”
Although he seemingly remains a fan of the playmaking partnership and clearly sees having Mo’unga at first-five and Barrett as his best combination, Foster revealed he was eager to give the latter more game time in his preferred position.
With only two games in the No. 10 jersey for the Blues during Super Rugby Aotearoa, though, Foster felt Barrett needed more time in the saddle before being thrust back into first-five role at test level.
“He was going to play 10 for the Blues but that didn’t quite work out so he came into our campaign with a very limited test window without having a lot of time at 10 under his belt,” Foster said.
“We are keen for him to play some rugby at 10 and we showed that in Brisbane where we felt the best way to give him time there was to play him there.”
Whether that means we will see more of Barrett playing at No. 10 for the All Blacks following his Top League sabbatical with Suntory Sungliath remains to be seen, but Foster is adamant the dual playmaking system is here to stay.
“I still want guys who can play both sides of the ruck,” he told the Herald. “Who that will be in those jerseys we’ll just have to wait and see.”
This is a very depressing read. It shows that Foster has learned absolutely nothing from the failures of the last few years and is firmly committed to both the failed dual playmaker experiment and playing BB much more at no.10. FML, how did we end up with such an idiot as coach?wet-socks wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:22 am https://www.rugbypass.com/news/we-are-k ... er-debate/
“Ever since I started working with Steve Hansen in 2012 we’ve always tried to work on a two-sided attack whether it was Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Beauden Barrett or Damian McKenzie,” he told the Herald.
“It’s having the skillset of the 15 to run the other side of the ruck and create running and kicking options that help defuse defences.
“There’s nothing new to what we’ve been trying to do in that space.”
Although he seemingly remains a fan of the playmaking partnership and clearly sees having Mo’unga at first-five and Barrett as his best combination, Foster revealed he was eager to give the latter more game time in his preferred position.
With only two games in the No. 10 jersey for the Blues during Super Rugby Aotearoa, though, Foster felt Barrett needed more time in the saddle before being thrust back into first-five role at test level.
“He was going to play 10 for the Blues but that didn’t quite work out so he came into our campaign with a very limited test window without having a lot of time at 10 under his belt,” Foster said.
“We are keen for him to play some rugby at 10 and we showed that in Brisbane where we felt the best way to give him time there was to play him there.”
Whether that means we will see more of Barrett playing at No. 10 for the All Blacks following his Top League sabbatical with Suntory Sungliath remains to be seen, but Foster is adamant the dual playmaking system is here to stay.
“I still want guys who can play both sides of the ruck,” he told the Herald. “Who that will be in those jerseys we’ll just have to wait and see.”
The bolded points are interesting. Ben Smith, Israel Dagg and Damian McKenzie all chime in when needed but do not impose themselves at 10 as often as Barrett. If what we are seeking is what we had from 2012 onwards is it a failed experiment or simply Beauden Barrett’s inability to play the role needed? I’m not sure I buy it, if we were looking to continue an established strategy why start using the phrase “dual playmakers” from last year. This feels like revisionism for justification.“Ever since I started working with Steve Hansen in 2012 we’ve always tried to work on a two-sided attack whether it was Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Beauden Barrett or Damian McKenzie,” he told the Herald.
“It’s having the skillset of the 15 to run the other side of the ruck and create running and kicking options that help defuse defences.
“There’s nothing new to what we’ve been trying to do in that space.”