NPR

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:00 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:40 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:32 am

I agree, I remember talking about that at the time on the old bored. I don't know if our communication was ineffective or if we simply didn't even try but it was a poor show from the captains either way. That was a match winning moment and that is the time to have a full on Sexton - the ref might have a go at you but you sure as hell make him think it's worth checking.

The effectiveness or otherwise of our captains, particularly Barclay, was something I was thinking about the other day actually. There have been a few stories in the media originating from him about how he was pushed out at Edinburgh and that they didn't let him into the leadership group. To me, it seemed there was very little self-reflection there (a key facet of a good leader) about the skills he actually has to offer beyond his view that he has been around a long time and had leadership roles therefore he must be good at it.

I think we have had the discussions before but we have been extremelly naive over the last decade when dealing with refs. I don't like it but every other team does it and we seem to have been on the bad end of some really important decisions that could have been managed much better. The example above is one but I also think Laidlaw could have dealt better with Joubert (spit) in that WC.

My own view is that they need to have a clear and consistent approach. POC talks about having 2 or 3 key messages for the ref for every game that he came back to over and over again. Given the way Scotland play, for us this should probably include the offside line. The feel I got was that our management of the ref was not structured at all. Obviously this incident would not fall into that way of managing, but saving the seriously big response for match defining moments would also seem a sensible strategy.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:56 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:00 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:40 am

I think we have had the discussions before but we have been extremelly naive over the last decade when dealing with refs. I don't like it but every other team does it and we seem to have been on the bad end of some really important decisions that could have been managed much better. The example above is one but I also think Laidlaw could have dealt better with Joubert (spit) in that WC.

My own view is that they need to have a clear and consistent approach. POC talks about having 2 or 3 key messages for the ref for every game that he came back to over and over again. Given the way Scotland play, for us this should probably include the offside line. The feel I got was that our management of the ref was not structured at all. Obviously this incident would not fall into that way of managing, but saving the seriously big response for match defining moments would also seem a sensible strategy.

Yeah, that's the sensible way to do it, I've always felt. For the Irish push the offside line and flying into rucks off feet and going past the ball. For Wales, the offside line and the smell. I'd also be very keen on picking one opposition player, eg Sexton and dropping in the odd 'jeez, he's being a whiny bastard even by his standards today, isn't he?' 'oh, here we go Johnny's got a tizzy on, brace yourself ref'

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:01 am Gatland 0 from 7 in super rugby. Not so easy when the offside law is enforced and you aren't allowed to do whatever you feel like at every angle in the ruck eh Warren.

Like these new rules, entertaining games rather than Warren's signature cementball.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:23 pm Huge role for JD after one year of being a forwards coach in pro rugby. Not really a huge fan of this one. Dalziel is clearly a promising coach but this seems a bit too soon.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:23 pm Huge role for JD after one year of being a forwards coach in pro rugby. Not really a huge fan of this one. Dalziel is clearly a promising coach but this seems a bit too soon.

Surprised they didn’t try to get Roddy Grant back from Ulster. Now got five years behind him coaching at the academy, Edinburgh and Ulster.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:23 pm Huge role for JD after one year of being a forwards coach in pro rugby. Not really a huge fan of this one. Dalziel is clearly a promising coach but this seems a bit too soon.

Surprised they didn’t try to get Roddy Grant back from Ulster. Now got five years behind him coaching at the academy, Edinburgh and Ulster.

Roddy Grant was my first thought. What an education he's had as a coach Cockers and MacFarland - who better to teach you?

Might be that he fancies continuing to learn at Ulster.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am

Surprised they didn’t try to get Roddy Grant back from Ulster. Now got five years behind him coaching at the academy, Edinburgh and Ulster.

Roddy Grant was my first thought. What an education he's had as a coach Cockers and MacFarland - who better to teach you?

Might be that he fancies continuing to learn at Ulster.

Or might be that he reckons Cockers will leave in a few years, although I’m thinking McRae is the man in line there.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:23 pm Huge role for JD after one year of being a forwards coach in pro rugby. Not really a huge fan of this one. Dalziel is clearly a promising coach but this seems a bit too soon.

Surprised they didn’t try to get Roddy Grant back from Ulster. Now got five years behind him coaching at the academy, Edinburgh and Ulster.

Roddy Grant was my first thought. What an education he's had as a coach Cockers and MacFarland - who better to teach you?

Might be that he fancies continuing to learn at Ulster.

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am

Surprised they didn’t try to get Roddy Grant back from Ulster. Now got five years behind him coaching at the academy, Edinburgh and Ulster.

Roddy Grant was my first thought. What an education he's had as a coach Cockers and MacFarland - who better to teach you?

Might be that he fancies continuing to learn at Ulster.

The question I would have is what exactly is Grant coaching. Is it break down rather than "forwards" coaching?

Dalziel has done the hard yards, coached a good Melrose club side, IIRC did a decent job in the end with the 20's (5th place in 17?), has head coaching experience with the London Scottish, the 20s and 7's.

It may not work but I think it sends a positive sign to the aspiring coaches like those in the S6 that there can be a pathway to the top table. Roddy may be a good coach, but I think 3 years of pro coaching is too soon, especially as I'd like to see him out with the overreach of two noted forward coaches to see what is him v what is them. I felt, and still feel the same about Mike Blair. Not sure what his role really is.

Is De Villiers staying on? Edit - I see he is. Very important.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:25 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

Roddy Grant was my first thought. What an education he's had as a coach Cockers and MacFarland - who better to teach you?

Might be that he fancies continuing to learn at Ulster.

The question I would have is what exactly is Grant coaching. Is it break down rather than "forwards" coaching?

Dalziel has done the hard yards, coached a good Melrose club side, IIRC did a decent job in the end with the 20's (5th place in 17?), has head coaching experience with the London Scottish, the 20s and 7's.

It may not work but I think it sends a positive sign to the aspiring coaches like those in the S6 that there can be a pathway to the top table. Roddy may be a good coach, but I think 3 years of pro coaching is too soon, especially as I'd like to see him out with the overreach of two noted forward coaches to see what is him v what is them. I felt, and still feel the same about Mike Blair. Not sure what his role really is.

Is De Villiers staying on? Edit - I see he is. Very important.

Definitely appreciate the path Dalziel has followed and that it's very good for Scottish rugby and a credit to him. My concerns are Melrose is a plum job especially when they and a few others were playing semi pro rugby in an amateur league. His job with the under20s was great, he seemed to do well with the 7s but an odd role for a forwards coach, LS I don't know too much about was he there when they were still fully pro? And only one year in actual pro rugby in fully pro league with all Pro players. Definitely agree that it's important to have these pathways and you'd hope Super6 coaches were watching with interest and clarity they can go far. But I think it's too early. Saying that I think cotter had Hines as a forwards coach without much experience and Toonie was attack coach without much experience and both seemed to do well.

I guess Grant and Lawrie were/are forwards coaches with Edinburgh but Cockers had a lot of input. Same with Blair and Toonie. Blair is definitely being moulded.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:25 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:26 am

Roddy Grant was my first thought. What an education he's had as a coach Cockers and MacFarland - who better to teach you?

Might be that he fancies continuing to learn at Ulster.

The question I would have is what exactly is Grant coaching. Is it break down rather than "forwards" coaching?

Dalziel has done the hard yards, coached a good Melrose club side, IIRC did a decent job in the end with the 20's (5th place in 17?), has head coaching experience with the London Scottish, the 20s and 7's.

It may not work but I think it sends a positive sign to the aspiring coaches like those in the S6 that there can be a pathway to the top table. Roddy may be a good coach, but I think 3 years of pro coaching is too soon, especially as I'd like to see him out with the overreach of two noted forward coaches to see what is him v what is them. I felt, and still feel the same about Mike Blair. Not sure what his role really is.

Is De Villiers staying on? Edit - I see he is. Very important.

Definitely appreciate the path Dalziel has followed and that it's very good for Scottish rugby and a credit to him. My concerns are Melrose is a plum job especially when they and a few others were playing semi pro rugby in an amateur league. His job with the under20s was great, he seemed to do well with the 7s but an odd role for a forwards coach, LS I don't know too much about was he there when they were still fully pro? And only one year in actual pro rugby in fully pro league with all Pro players. Definitely agree that it's important to have these pathways and you'd hope Super6 coaches were watching with interest and clarity they can go far. But I think it's too early. Saying that I think cotter had Hines as a forwards coach without much experience and Toonie was attack coach without much experience and both seemed to do well.

I guess Grant and Lawrie were/are forwards coaches with Edinburgh but Cockers had a lot of input. Same with Blair and Toonie. Blair is definitely being moulded.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:29 pm Fife is off to the New England Free Jack's. He's maybe not the best player going but always thought he was a solid player for Embra.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:29 pm Fife is off to the New England Free Jack's. He's maybe not the best player going but always thought he was a solid player for Embra.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:27 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:29 pm Fife is off to the New England Free Jack's. He's maybe not the best player going but always thought he was a solid player for Embra.

Yeah, the total embodiment of a decent club player that you need to win those games whilst the internationals are away. A nae bad finish to his career, living out in the States.

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:29 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:27 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:29 pm Fife is off to the New England Free Jack's. He's maybe not the best player going but always thought he was a solid player for Embra.

Yeah, the total embodiment of a decent club player that you need to win those games whilst the internationals are away. A nae bad finish to his career, living out in the States.

Did reasonably well with the 7s didn't he? I think it was him that sunny Twickenham day?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm Kevin Millar on Twitter suggesting the residency rule change (3 years to 5 years) has been delayed a year. On this basis Schoeman will be eligible next summer. Our loosehead depth (and Lions prospects) looking a lot better very quickly.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:27 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm Kevin Millar on Twitter suggesting the residency rule change (3 years to 5 years) has been delayed a year. On this basis Schoeman will be eligible next summer. Our loosehead depth (and Lions prospects) looking a lot better very quickly.

That is excellent news.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:01 pm https://www.rugbypass.com/news/oguntibe ... edinburgh/

Interesting. Massive 18yo lock playing in SA, has a trial with Embra. Lived in the city from age 2 to 12, so is residency qualified. Only a young lad and might come to nothing, but interesting all the same. Our last random acquisition from SA rugby did pretty well, after all...

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm Kevin Millar on Twitter suggesting the residency rule change (3 years to 5 years) has been delayed a year. On this basis Schoeman will be eligible next summer. Our loosehead depth (and Lions prospects) looking a lot better very quickly.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:18 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:01 pm https://www.rugbypass.com/news/oguntibe ... edinburgh/

Interesting. Massive 18yo lock playing in SA, has a trial with Embra. Lived in the city from age 2 to 12, so is residency qualified. Only a young lad and might come to nothing, but interesting all the same. Our last random acquisition from SA rugby did pretty well, after all...

Good chance he'll still have the accent as well so we can pretend he is one of ours

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:25 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:18 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:01 pm https://www.rugbypass.com/news/oguntibe ... edinburgh/

Interesting. Massive 18yo lock playing in SA, has a trial with Embra. Lived in the city from age 2 to 12, so is residency qualified. Only a young lad and might come to nothing, but interesting all the same. Our last random acquisition from SA rugby did pretty well, after all...

Good chance he'll still have the accent as well so we can pretend he is one of ours

He spent most of his childhood in Embra and still has family there. Don’t even think we have to pretend too hard!

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:35 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:25 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:18 am

Good chance he'll still have the accent as well so we can pretend he is one of ours

He spent most of his childhood in Embra and still has family there. Don’t even think we have to pretend too hard!

Yeah, hadn't read the piece before I wrote that!

Will be really interesting to see how he develops. Remember Stuart Grimes hadn't played rugby really until he was about 21 and won 71 caps

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:35 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:25 am

He spent most of his childhood in Embra and still has family there. Don’t even think we have to pretend too hard!

Yeah, hadn't read the piece before I wrote that!

Will be really interesting to see how he develops. Remember Stuart Grimes hadn't played rugby really until he was about 21 and won 71 caps

Actually didn’t know that. I was at medical school with his brother. Also with Geoff Cross’s sister, which possibly tells you everything you need to know about rugby in Scotland!

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:36 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm Kevin Millar on Twitter suggesting the residency rule change (3 years to 5 years) has been delayed a year. On this basis Schoeman will be eligible next summer. Our loosehead depth (and Lions prospects) looking a lot better very quickly.

No sign of Disco popping up on here?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:35 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:25 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:18 am

Good chance he'll still have the accent as well so we can pretend he is one of ours

He spent most of his childhood in Embra and still has family there. Don’t even think we have to pretend too hard!

Yeah, hadn't read the piece before I wrote that!

Will be really interesting to see how he develops. Remember Stuart Grimes hadn't played rugby really until he was about 21 and won 71 caps

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:49 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:35 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:25 am

He spent most of his childhood in Embra and still has family there. Don’t even think we have to pretend too hard!

Yeah, hadn't read the piece before I wrote that!

Will be really interesting to see how he develops. Remember Stuart Grimes hadn't played rugby really until he was about 21 and won 71 caps

More recently the Toolis brothers were more into volleyball before they came over.

I'm guessing this lad has a reasonable amount of natural athletic ability if football and basketball coaches were interested in him when he was younger. I remember when Devin Toner first started playing for Leinster and he looked about as feckless as I am at sports, just with an extra 11 inches of height.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:56 am

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:36 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm Kevin Millar on Twitter suggesting the residency rule change (3 years to 5 years) has been delayed a year. On this basis Schoeman will be eligible next summer. Our loosehead depth (and Lions prospects) looking a lot better very quickly.

No sign of Disco popping up on here?

I suppose he might be posting under a different name...?

I did notice however that multiple media outlets including the BBC and the Times are reporting that ‘they understand’ the rule change has happened. By complete chance every single one is using the Schoeman angle. Just give credit ffs, either that or find some other player that will be eligible due to this rule change, there must be dozens. There really are some lazy and quite probably utterly feckless journalists out there.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:56 am

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:36 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:08 pm Kevin Millar on Twitter suggesting the residency rule change (3 years to 5 years) has been delayed a year. On this basis Schoeman will be eligible next summer. Our loosehead depth (and Lions prospects) looking a lot better very quickly.

No sign of Disco popping up on here?

I suppose he might be posting under a different name...?

I did notice however that multiple media outlets including the BBC and the Times are reporting that ‘they understand’ the rule change has happened. By complete chance every single one is using the Schoeman angle. Just give credit ffs, either that or find some other player that will be eligible due to this rule change, there must be dozens. There really are some lazy and quite probably utterly feckless journalists out there.