Kicking off in Israel

[Sandstorm]

I don’t think politicians in the us or uk are viewing Palestinians as real human beings

Mate, they don’t care about starving children in their own constituencies. “Where’s Palestine….?”

[Slick]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

[inactionman]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

I noticed that too - the whole emergency rescue thing seems odd. It sounds like some pretty extensive violence in the evenings, but are evacuations really necessary now?

Can't help thinking Netanyahu is making a point.

[Slick]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

I noticed that too - the whole emergency rescue thing seems odd. It sounds like some pretty extensive violence in the evenings, but are evacuations really necessary now?

Can't help thinking Netanyahu is making a point.

Yes, does seem over the top and all part of the conflating Isreal and Jewish narrative they pump out. At least they might see that their actions have consequences although obviously hope no one is seriously hurt

[Calculon]

They will see it as anti-Semitic Arab and Turkish immigrants attacking Jews.




yeah, i know it's peter zeihan, but still an interesting perspective on the future of Israel

[laurent]

Two French Gendarme got Arrested Inside a French territory in israel by armed Israelis.

As usual there will be nothing meaningful done about it.

In the reports here it looks like the Maccabi Supporters were all to happy to sing racist slogans on the way to the stadium.

They should have been stopped there and returned to their planes. instead of escorted to the game.

As per the violence afterwards it's despicable.

[Calculon]

not sure these people are doing the free palastine movement any favours

https://x.com/LucBernard/status/1854816133851029579

[Uncle fester]

Two French Gendarme got Arrested Inside a French territory in israel by armed Israelis.

As usual there will be nothing meaningful done about it.

In the reports here it looks like the Maccabi Supporters were all to happy to sing racist slogans on the way to the stadium.

They should have been stopped there and returned to their planes. instead of escorted to the game.

As per the violence afterwards it's despicable.

Jerusalem Post took a slightly different angle on that, claiming that the gendarmes stopped the minister's Israeli security detail from entering the compound and that nobody knew why there might be gendarmes at the compound.

Which doesn't really fly because it's not the first time there's been issues there.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-828070

[Uncle fester]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

Dutch soccer supporters are pretty awful. They are careful re international games but violence and hooliganism is endemic in the domestic game.

[laurent]

Two French Gendarme got Arrested Inside a French territory in israel by armed Israelis.

As usual there will be nothing meaningful done about it.

In the reports here it looks like the Maccabi Supporters were all to happy to sing racist slogans on the way to the stadium.

They should have been stopped there and returned to their planes. instead of escorted to the game.

As per the violence afterwards it's despicable.

Jerusalem Post took a slightly different angle on that, claiming that the gendarmes stopped the minister's Israeli security detail from entering the compound and that nobody knew why there might be gendarmes at the compound.

Which doesn't really fly because it's not the first time there's been issues there

Armed people : Isreali army or police are not allowed in full stop this is french territory. The french foreign minister was going there what did they expect prossies?

Isreal has been provocating the French for too long on state visits. (at least 3 serious incidents that I know of).

Time to send the ambassador packing. instead of just giving the cretin a talking to.

(and slip some jambon de bayone in his suitcase)

[epwc]

Tragedy that Israeli football fans got beaten up.

Meanwhile:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ce-process

But who gives a fuck?

[Uncle fester]

Two French Gendarme got Arrested Inside a French territory in israel by armed Israelis.

As usual there will be nothing meaningful done about it.

In the reports here it looks like the Maccabi Supporters were all to happy to sing racist slogans on the way to the stadium.

They should have been stopped there and returned to their planes. instead of escorted to the game.

As per the violence afterwards it's despicable.

Jerusalem Post took a slightly different angle on that, claiming that the gendarmes stopped the minister's Israeli security detail from entering the compound and that nobody knew why there might be gendarmes at the compound.

Which doesn't really fly because it's not the first time there's been issues there

Armed people : Isreali army or police are not allowed in full stop this is french territory. The french foreign minister was going there what did they expect prossies?

Isreal has been provocating the French for too long on state visits. (at least 3 serious incidents that I know of).

Time to send the ambassador packing. instead of just giving the cretin a talking to.

(and slip some jambon de bayone in his suitcase)

They don't recognise the rights of half of the population inside the territory they control. They certainly won't give two hoots about the French territory (believe there's more than one?).

In other news, I was pleasantly surprised to hear that Israel are demolishing illegally constructed dwellings in the west bank.
Was less impressed when I read the detail and the dwellings house Palestinians and not settlers.

[epwc]

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that Israel are demolishing illegally constructed dwellings in the west bank.
Was less impressed when I read the detail and the dwellings house Palestinians and not settlers.

I don't see what the options are, I mean they have to abide by the law don't they?

[Uncle fester]

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that Israel are demolishing illegally constructed dwellings in the west bank.
Was less impressed when I read the detail and the dwellings house Palestinians and not settlers.

I don't see what the options are, I mean they have to abide by the law don't they?

Well yes, abiding by the law is very very important.

[Raggs]

Tragedy that Israeli football fans got beaten up.

Meanwhile:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ce-process

But who gives a fuck?

8.1k deaths in the 6 month period confirmed by unhro from data from Gazan heath ministry.

The same period that the Gazan health ministry reports around 25k deaths.*

So which is it? Are deaths being massively over reported or has the Gazan health ministry sent only a select grouping of deaths for the officers to confirm?

The unhro confirm that they have full demographic data for the majority of deaths as reported by bbc, 8.1k is not even close to a majority of 25k, so even trying to say it's only for the ones they can be 100% sure of, the numbers don't add up.

*9k deaths reported in Oct 23 (including 471 from al ahli that wasn't Israel), 34k reported at end of April 24.

[epwc]

I don't know, who in Gaza has the resources to actually provide real data? It's clear that many 10000s have been killed and many many more have been injured

[Slick]

I don't know, who in Gaza has the resources to actually provide real data. It's clear that many 10000s have been killed and many many more have been injured

70% children and women as well

[epwc]

I don't know, who in Gaza has the resources to actually provide real data. It's clear that many 10000s have been killed and many many more have been injured

70% children and women as well

At the time of the first intifada an Israeli guy I know was telling me that kids with catapults could literally explode IDF soldiers heads even through a helmet. So yeah, got to kill them fuckers too.

[laurent]

Jerusalem Post took a slightly different angle on that, claiming that the gendarmes stopped the minister's Israeli security detail from entering the compound and that nobody knew why there might be gendarmes at the compound.

Which doesn't really fly because it's not the first time there's been issues there

Armed people : Isreali army or police are not allowed in full stop this is french territory. The french foreign minister was going there what did they expect prossies?

Isreal has been provocating the French for too long on state visits. (at least 3 serious incidents that I know of).

Time to send the ambassador packing. instead of just giving the cretin a talking to.

(and slip some jambon de bayone in his suitcase)

They don't recognise the rights of half of the population inside the territory they control. They certainly won't give two hoots about the French territory (believe there's more than one?).

In other news, I was pleasantly surprised to hear that Israel are demolishing illegally constructed dwellings in the west bank.
Was less impressed when I read the detail and the dwellings house Palestinians and not settlers.

There are a few (embassies and some churches / semi religious places).

[Raggs]

I don't know, who in Gaza has the resources to actually provide real data? It's clear that many 10000s have been killed and many many more have been injured

If we can't trust the data then why do we trust the data?

Too many have died. But if the same Gazan department is reporting 25k deaths, and 8k deaths over the same time period, only the 8k one is being used for demographic purposes, I really think we shouldn't trust the numbers.

[epwc]

I think you're right, it's unwise to trust the data. I don't think it's in Hamas interest to disclose the true number, I believe they will be under reporting, but that's an assumption based on the density of population and level of destruction.

[Uncle fester]

I don't know, who in Gaza has the resources to actually provide real data? It's clear that many 10000s have been killed and many many more have been injured

If we can't trust the data then why do we trust the data?

Too many have died. But if the same Gazan department is reporting 25k deaths, and 8k deaths over the same time period, only the 8k one is being used for demographic purposes, I really think we shouldn't trust the numbers.

Where are you going with this?

[Raggs]

I don't know, who in Gaza has the resources to actually provide real data? It's clear that many 10000s have been killed and many many more have been injured

If we can't trust the data then why do we trust the data?

Too many have died. But if the same Gazan department is reporting 25k deaths, and 8k deaths over the same time period, only the 8k one is being used for demographic purposes, I really think we shouldn't trust the numbers.

Where are you going with this?

I think I've arrived... That the figures are completely unreliable from their own figures, and anyone trying to use them to make a point shouldn't.

[epwc]

"By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the attack by Hamas and the Israeli invasion in October, 2023, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, as reported by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.1 The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services,2 the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry,3 which found claims of data fabrication implausible.4"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext

I haven't read the full text yet

[epwc]

"Some officials and news agencies have used this development, designed to improve data quality, to undermine the veracity of the data. However, the number of reported deaths is likely an underestimate. The non-governmental organisation Airwars undertakes detailed assessments of incidents in the Gaza Strip and often finds that not all names of identifiable victims are included in the Ministry's list.6 Furthermore, the UN estimates that, by Feb 29, 2024, 35% of buildings in the Gaza Strip had been destroyed,5 so the number of bodies still buried in the rubble is likely substantial, with estimates of more than 10 000.7"

Obviously fuck all left standing now

[Raggs]

"By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the attack by Hamas and the Israeli invasion in October, 2023, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, as reported by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.1 The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services,2 the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry,3 which found claims of data fabrication implausible.4"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext

I haven't read the full text yet

Yes. But now they're both reporting 25k (they reported 9k up until start of November 23, and 34k in April), but the data they've given to the unhro (also covering November 23 upto and including April 24) in the above report is only 8.1k deaths. Both figures cannot be true.

[_Os_]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

Lost the match and lost the fight, both heavily, then cried about it after. Israeli hooligans have some form for this it seems, just this time they got their heads kicked in.

Noticed they booed the minutes silence for the Spanish flood victims. Recent enjoyers of the Israeli internet <Os steps forwards> will know why they did it. They think the floods were justified and a punishment from god (yes, really), for Spain putting an arms import/export ban on Israel, Spain recognising Palestine, and Spain saying whatever the court decides on the ICJ genocide case they'll support it.

[Slick]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

Lost the match and lost the fight, both heavily, then cried about it after. Israeli hooligans have some form for this it seems, just this time they got their heads kicked in.

Noticed they booed the minutes silence for the Spanish flood victims. Recent enjoyers of the Israeli internet <Os steps forwards> will know why they did it. They think the floods were justified and a punishment from god (yes, really), for Spain putting an arms import/export ban on Israel, Spain recognising Palestine, and Spain saying whatever the court decides on the ICJ genocide case they'll support it.

I’d heard about that and wondered if it was just footie fans being footie fans or there was a reason. Cheers

[epwc]

Nice, moral high ground and all that…

[Uncle fester]

If we can't trust the data then why do we trust the data?

Too many have died. But if the same Gazan department is reporting 25k deaths, and 8k deaths over the same time period, only the 8k one is being used for demographic purposes, I really think we shouldn't trust the numbers.

Where are you going with this?

I think I've arrived... That the figures are completely unreliable from their own figures, and anyone trying to use them to make a point shouldn't.

Thought that was where you were heading alright.
So because we can't have complete certainty about how many people Israel is killing, we should cease or reduce opposition to the killing and destruction?

[Uncle fester]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

Lost the match and lost the fight, both heavily, then cried about it after. Israeli hooligans have some form for this it seems, just this time they got their heads kicked in.

Noticed they booed the minutes silence for the Spanish flood victims. Recent enjoyers of the Israeli internet <Os steps forwards> will know why they did it. They think the floods were justified and a punishment from god (yes, really), for Spain putting an arms import/export ban on Israel, Spain recognising Palestine, and Spain saying whatever the court decides on the ICJ genocide case they'll support it.

They are not in Europe so they should play with their neighbours.

[Torquemada 1420]

They are not in Europe so they should play with their neighbours.

I think that's what they claim they are doing.......

[_Os_]

yeah, i know it's peter zeihan, but still an interesting perspective on the future of Israel

Zeihan gets the stuff him and his team know right and the stuff he doesn't very wrong. He's also an American jingoist which creates more errors. Entertaining because of how big picture he goes, and he's often not entirely wrong.

This take goes into the "American jingoist" bucket. He's saying what he wishes happens, the clue is in not mentioning Iran at all. Everyone in the region knows what Israel is, this creates a problem for Israel as any alliance with regional powers will be wildly unpopular with the citizens of that regional power (Turkey/Iran/Egypt/Saudi). Which is why Israel is interested in the Saudis, they're the least democratic and most oppressive out of the big regional powers, the Saudi citizens have the least input. Even the Saudi regime had to step back and say "no thanks" after Gaza. Turkey is the most democratic out of the regional powers, this effectively takes Turkey off the table for Israel beyond what it already has. That leaves Iran and Egypt, doubt Israel gets more out of either than it already has whilst Palestine is unresolved. Which takes Israel back to the Saudis. The Saudis lost an 8 year war against the Houthis.

As for Israel/Turkey/Saudi/Egypt all ganging up against Iran. Which is what he's saying there without saying it. He probably needs to pay closer attention to the sides in Syria and Iraq. Turkey knows who is backing the Kurds and it's not Iran, hard to form an alliance with the people supporting your main enemy. Turkey is neutral on the Israel v Iran conflict, despite not being on the same side as Iran in either Syria or Iraq, because Israel/Saudis/West aren't really on the same side as Turkey either. Turkey like Iran wants to be an independent regional power. Which is why Arabs are weary of Turkey, they've seen that movie before. Getting into bed with Israel wouldn't be popular with most Arabs, adding Turkey even more unpopular.

You can see Zeihan's jingoism in how he talks about a deep security alliance for Israel capable of replacing the US, purely from the Israeli point of view. Reminds me of the Qatar world cup, Morocco's Western backed dictatorship had signed some agreement or something with Israel, Morocco went far in that world cup and Israeli TV interviewed some fans thinking they the actual people of Morocco were also now friendly towards Israel, they told live Israeli TV to go fuck itself. A theme of Morocco's run was the fans and players waving Palestine flags. One of the countries Israel wanted to run Gaza was Morocco, they pulled out just like the Saudis (and Jordan?). Even dictatorships have to be careful when dealing with Israel, as it could risk their regime.

[Calculon]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

Lost the match and lost the fight, both heavily, then cried about it after. Israeli hooligans have some form for this it seems, just this time they got their heads kicked in.

Noticed they booed the minutes silence for the Spanish flood victims. Recent enjoyers of the Israeli internet <Os steps forwards> will know why they did it. They think the floods were justified and a punishment from god (yes, really), for Spain putting an arms import/export ban on Israel, Spain recognising Palestine, and Spain saying whatever the court decides on the ICJ genocide case they'll support it.

There was no trouble between the football fans of either team. This was Moroccan Dutch pro Palestinian supporters organisisnngy a "jew hunt" on Telegram and going around demanding to see the passports if anyone they suspected of being Israeli and beating the shit out of them . It's already been condemned as antisemitic attacks by everyone in Dutch politics

[Calculon]

yeah, i know it's peter zeihan, but still an interesting perspective on the future of Israel

Zeihan gets the stuff him and his team know right and the stuff he doesn't very wrong. He's also an American jingoist which creates more errors. Entertaining because of how big picture he goes, and he's often not entirely wrong.

This take goes into the "American jingoist" bucket. He's saying what he wishes happens, the clue is in not mentioning Iran at all. Everyone in the region knows what Israel is, this creates a problem for Israel as any alliance with regional powers will be wildly unpopular with the citizens of that regional power (Turkey/Iran/Egypt/Saudi). Which is why Israel is interested in the Saudis, they're the least democratic and most oppressive out of the big regional powers, the Saudi citizens have the least input. Even the Saudi regime had to step back and say "no thanks" after Gaza. Turkey is the most democratic out of the regional powers, this effectively takes Turkey off the table for Israel beyond what it already has. That leaves Iran and Egypt, doubt Israel gets more out of either than it already has whilst Palestine is unresolved. Which takes Israel back to the Saudis. The Saudis lost an 8 year war against the Houthis.

As for Israel/Turkey/Saudi/Egypt all ganging up against Iran. Which is what he's saying there without saying it. He probably needs to pay closer attention to the sides in Syria and Iraq. Turkey knows who is backing the Kurds and it's not Iran, hard to form an alliance with the people supporting your main enemy. Turkey is neutral on the Israel v Iran conflict, despite not being on the same side as Iran in either Syria or Iraq, because Israel/Saudis/West aren't really on the same side as Turkey either. Turkey like Iran wants to be an independent regional power. Which is why Arabs are weary of Turkey, they've seen that movie before. Getting into bed with Israel wouldn't be popular with most Arabs, adding Turkey even more unpopular.

You can see Zeihan's jingoism in how he talks about a deep security alliance for Israel capable of replacing the US, purely from the Israeli point of view. Reminds me of the Qatar world cup, Morocco's Western backed dictatorship had signed some agreement or something with Israel, Morocco went far in that world cup and Israeli TV interviewed some fans thinking they the actual people of Morocco were also now friendly towards Israel, they told live Israeli TV to go fuck itself. A theme of Morocco's run was the fans and players waving Palestine flags. One of the countries Israel wanted to run Gaza was Morocco, they pulled out just like the Saudis (and Jordan?). Even dictatorships have to be careful when dealing with Israel, as it could risk their regime.

It's about the Israeli pov because it's about what Israel needs to do, and he does mention Iran several times. Anyway, he does say it will be extremely hard for Israel to improve their relationship with Turkey and obviously what's happening in Gaza complicates it, but considering they've had much better relationship in the fairly recent past I'm not sure how you can claim it's impossible for their relationship to improve. Zeihan is no fan of Israel, he just has a worse opinion of their neighbors, with the exception of Turkey

[_Os_]

I see the Maccabi Haifa supporters got a kicking in Amsterdam last night. Israel have sent "emergency planes" to pick them up

Lost the match and lost the fight, both heavily, then cried about it after. Israeli hooligans have some form for this it seems, just this time they got their heads kicked in.

Noticed they booed the minutes silence for the Spanish flood victims. Recent enjoyers of the Israeli internet <Os steps forwards> will know why they did it. They think the floods were justified and a punishment from god (yes, really), for Spain putting an arms import/export ban on Israel, Spain recognising Palestine, and Spain saying whatever the court decides on the ICJ genocide case they'll support it.

There was no trouble between the football fans of either team. This was Moroccan Dutch pro Palestinian supporters organisisnngy a "jew hunt" on Telegram and going around demanding to see the passports if anyone they suspected of being Israeli and beating the shit out of them . It's already been condemned as antisemitic attacks by everyone in Dutch politics

Yes definitely no provocations from the Israeli hooligans, they are the innocent victims. Definitely not a case of fucking around and finding out. Here are the victims returning home singing their club song. Nothing racist or genocidal going on, please look away.

[_Os_]

yeah, i know it's peter zeihan, but still an interesting perspective on the future of Israel

Zeihan gets the stuff him and his team know right and the stuff he doesn't very wrong. He's also an American jingoist which creates more errors. Entertaining because of how big picture he goes, and he's often not entirely wrong.

This take goes into the "American jingoist" bucket. He's saying what he wishes happens, the clue is in not mentioning Iran at all. Everyone in the region knows what Israel is, this creates a problem for Israel as any alliance with regional powers will be wildly unpopular with the citizens of that regional power (Turkey/Iran/Egypt/Saudi). Which is why Israel is interested in the Saudis, they're the least democratic and most oppressive out of the big regional powers, the Saudi citizens have the least input. Even the Saudi regime had to step back and say "no thanks" after Gaza. Turkey is the most democratic out of the regional powers, this effectively takes Turkey off the table for Israel beyond what it already has. That leaves Iran and Egypt, doubt Israel gets more out of either than it already has whilst Palestine is unresolved. Which takes Israel back to the Saudis. The Saudis lost an 8 year war against the Houthis.

As for Israel/Turkey/Saudi/Egypt all ganging up against Iran. Which is what he's saying there without saying it. He probably needs to pay closer attention to the sides in Syria and Iraq. Turkey knows who is backing the Kurds and it's not Iran, hard to form an alliance with the people supporting your main enemy. Turkey is neutral on the Israel v Iran conflict, despite not being on the same side as Iran in either Syria or Iraq, because Israel/Saudis/West aren't really on the same side as Turkey either. Turkey like Iran wants to be an independent regional power. Which is why Arabs are weary of Turkey, they've seen that movie before. Getting into bed with Israel wouldn't be popular with most Arabs, adding Turkey even more unpopular.

You can see Zeihan's jingoism in how he talks about a deep security alliance for Israel capable of replacing the US, purely from the Israeli point of view. Reminds me of the Qatar world cup, Morocco's Western backed dictatorship had signed some agreement or something with Israel, Morocco went far in that world cup and Israeli TV interviewed some fans thinking they the actual people of Morocco were also now friendly towards Israel, they told live Israeli TV to go fuck itself. A theme of Morocco's run was the fans and players waving Palestine flags. One of the countries Israel wanted to run Gaza was Morocco, they pulled out just like the Saudis (and Jordan?). Even dictatorships have to be careful when dealing with Israel, as it could risk their regime.

It's about the Israeli pov because it's about what Israel needs to do, and he does mention Iran several times. Anyway, he does say it will be extremely hard for Israel to improve their relationship with Turkey and obviously what's happening in Gaza complicates it, but considering they've had much better relationship in the fairly recent past I'm not sure how you can claim it's impossible for their relationship to improve. Zeihan is no fan of Israel, he just has a worse opinion of their neighbors, with the exception of Turkey

Right. So the Turkish government banned a match between Maccabi Tel Aviv and Besiktas taking place in Turkey, days ago before Amsterdam. They knew there would be Israeli provocations (that was their literal reason) and that Turkish ultras would do what they're well known for in response. By this I mean stab oppo hooligans to death. UEFA were happy for it to go ahead in Turkey, the Turkish government said no way. Turkey cannot host a football match against an Israeli club side, because they know what their people think of Israel.

But Turkey are going to enter a security arrangement beyond the under the table stuff they do, and replace the US as Israel's long term security guarantor? That same Turkey that always hedges and never commits to any partner, even when it's in NATO it still buys Russian equipment, helps Ukraine with weapons/drones but also helps Russia dodge sanctions? That Turkey? It's nonsense.

[Calculon]

Right. So the Turkish government banned a match between Maccabi Tel Aviv and Besiktas taking place in Turkey, days ago before Amsterdam. They knew there would be Israeli provocations (that was their literal reason) and that Turkish ultras would do what they're well known for in response. By this I mean stab oppo hooligans to death. UEFA were happy for it to go ahead in Turkey, the Turkish government said no way. Turkey cannot host a football match against an Israeli club side, because they know what their people think of Israel.

But Turkey are going to enter a security arrangement beyond the under the table stuff they do, and replace the US as Israel's long term security guarantor? That same Turkey that always hedges and never commits to any partner, even when it's in NATO it still buys Russian equipment, helps Ukraine with weapons/drones but also helps Russia dodge sanctions? That Turkey? It's nonsense.

wat?

he says "turkey is israels biggest threat", and that israel is potentially fucked in a "post american world" unless it can bury the hatchet with turkey. futhermore that its well known that the two governments hate each other so it willl be difficult to do

as for what happened in amsterdam, if you see nothing wrong with moroccan dutch pro palastininan "demonstartors" organising "jew hunts" on social media and then actually carrying out these "jew hunts" then fair enough. I mean, Amsterdam's liberal left Mayor described the violence as “an eruption of antisemitism that we had hoped never again to see in Amsterdam" but what would she know. this kind of voilence certainly won't bennefit the like of Wilders

[Calculon]

anyway, good news if true


Qatar agreed in recent weeks to kick Hamas out of its country following a request from the US to do so

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/poli ... index.html

[_Os_]

wat?

he says "turkey is israels biggest threat", and that israel is potentially fucked in a "post american world" unless it can bury the hatchet with turkey. futhermore that its well known that the two governments hate each other so it willl be difficult to do

Yes, but he talks about it like Turkish citizens have no input into the matter. When in fact they have a lot of input. He always underestimates human agency (this is why he got Ukraine wrong). Are you sure Turkey's government hates Israel? Like I said they have stuff going on under the table with Israel, they like to hedge.

It's really obvious what Israel needs to do, it needs to make peace with the Palestinians. Otherwise they're going to have to fight forever.

as for what happened in amsterdam, if you see nothing wrong with moroccan dutch pro palastininan "demonstartors" organising "jew hunts" on social media and then actually carrying out these "jew hunts" then fair enough. I mean, Amsterdam's liberal left Mayor described the violence as “an eruption of antisemitism that we had hoped never again to see in Amsterdam" but what would she know. this kind of voilence certainly won't bennefit the like of Wilders

I think Amsterdam has the right to defend itself.

Israeli hooligans rocked up in a foreign city and behaved like they were at home in the days before the match. According to the Dutch woman bystander who Sky News interviewed there was organised provocation by Israeli hooligans, there's video of this too, it's all a bit moot. The mayor will have to account to the citizens of the city. I doubt Wilders supporters need any encouragement.

Anyway, this was PSG ultras a few days ago. Are Israeli hooligans going to try and fight the whole of Paris next time they play there, then claim Antisemitism?