NPR

Niegs wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:16 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:25 pm Always thought politicians were a bunch of schoolkids. Now they have to walk through metal detectors, that just confirms it.

That, or sociopaths. Either way, they shouldn't be walking around with guns!

complete with the risible excuse to needing it for his own safety ...... while inside a Government building ringed with 25k troops ... just who the fuck is after him ??????

Holy fuck, there's stupid, then there's Trump style stupid... ...

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:49 pm The good news is that the GOP is eating itself; & shows signs, it will continue to do so until the orange cunt finally snuffs it.

We're post Trump now, the fascist scum wing of the GOP are off the chain and are shifting the whole party to the extreme right (which in turn causes the centre to shift as the Democrats chase popular vote issues).

So clearly the party as a whole is happy with the several senators and 100+ representatives who voted to overturn the results of the election. Good to know where their priorities lie.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:49 pm The good news is that the GOP is eating itself; & shows signs, it will continue to do so until the orange cunt finally snuffs it.

We're post Trump now, the fascist scum wing of the GOP are off the chain and are shifting the whole party to the extreme right (which in turn causes the centre to shift as the Democrats chase popular vote issues).

So clearly the party as a whole is happy with the several senators and 100+ representatives who voted to overturn the results of the election. Good to know where their priorities lie.

It'll be like that scene in "From Russia with Love"; where two of the fighting fish are knocking the shit out of each other, while the smart one is watching, & waiting .... except for a change the smart one will be the DNC .... and it probably won't last too long.

I read of Cornyn's threat to impeach Biden if Trump faces any charges and I'm inclined to think that it's an inevitability that Biden is going to be impeached several times after 2022.

Democrats hold narrow majorities in the House of Representatives and Senate but it is common for a president’s party to lose seats in elections two years after a presidential contest. Impeachment begins in the House. The Senate stages any trial.

There are going to be consequences to the undoing of Trump's destruction of climate change policies and addressing the burgeoning debt and I'm pretty sure that they won't be popular, so I don't think that a 'red wave' is all that unlikely and it's probably inevitable that impeachment will now be the weapon of choice against a sitting President.

Rather than "Making America Great Again", Trump has sown the seeds of its decline into dysfunctionality.

TB63 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:50 pm

Holy fuck, there's stupid, then there's Trump style stupid... ...

Yeah, it's worth asking people like that if they accept the Treaty of Paris. The one from 1783 that established them as an independent nation no longer nger part of the British Empire.

They'd have been rooting for Benedict Arnold.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:39 am

TB63 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:50 pm

Holy fuck, there's stupid, then there's Trump style stupid... ...

Yeah, it's worth asking people like that if they accept the Treaty of Paris. The one from 1783 that established them as an independent nation no longer nger part of the British Empire.

You're assuming their historical knowledge goes that far back.

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:15 pm life is about to get interesting for Rudy

Paywalled.

I believe he's suggested that he' will countersue for 3 billion.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:36 pm

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:15 pm life is about to get interesting for Rudy

Paywalled.

I believe he's suggested that he' will countersue for 3 billion.

Did Rudy get his law degree from T***p University ?

It would explain a lot.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:46 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:36 pm

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:15 pm life is about to get interesting for Rudy

Paywalled.

I believe he's suggested that he' will countersue for 3 billion.

Did Rudy get his law degree from T***p University ?

It would explain a lot.

He apparently believes his right to free speech allows him to defame people and businesses without consequence. Should be an interesting day in court; the judge could throw it out inside half an hour

Rinkals wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:36 pm

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:15 pm life is about to get interesting for Rudy

Paywalled.

I believe he's suggested that he' will countersue for 3 billion.

Use brave browser, you can get around their paywall

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:03 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:46 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:36 pm

Paywalled.

I believe he's suggested that he' will countersue for 3 billion.

Did Rudy get his law degree from T***p University ?

It would explain a lot.

He apparently believes his right to free speech allows him to defame people and businesses without consequence. Should be an interesting day in court; the judge could throw it out inside half an hour

Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote:Freedom of speech does not give a person the right to shout Fire in a crowded theater.

But what would he know

Free speech is a fundamental right; but so is the right of an individual to protect their reputation.

[Edit] and given that people working for Dominion started receiving death threats after these lies started getting thrown around; I think OWH's quote almost becomes a literal description of Rudy's offense.

Giuliani, who is also a host for WABC radio, issued the following statement:

“Dominion’s defamation lawsuit for $1.3B will allow me to investigate their history, finances, and practices fully and completely. The amount being asked for is, quite obviously, intended to frighten people of faint heart. It is another act of intimidation by the hate-filled left-wing to wipe out and censor the exercise of free speech, as well as the ability of lawyers to defend their clients vigorously. As such, we will investigate a countersuit against them for violating these Constitutional rights.” – Rudy Giuliani

TB63 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:40 pm Giuliani, who is also a host for WABC radio, issued the following statement:

“Dominion’s defamation lawsuit for $1.3B will allow me to investigate their history, finances, and practices fully and completely. The amount being asked for is, quite obviously, intended to frighten people of faint heart. It is another act of intimidation by the hate-filled left-wing to wipe out and censor the exercise of free speech, as well as the ability of lawyers to defend their clients vigorously. As such, we will investigate a countersuit against them for violating these Constitutional rights.” – Rudy Giuliani

Isn't this another example of that fine legal mind; that brought so many successful cases, to demonstrate how the election was stolen ?

As I understand it; the big, big, difference between Civil, & Criminal; is that in Civil; you're effectively Guilty, until proven innocent; & not the other way around. So Rudy needs to demonstrate that he wasn't lying; & that he had proof of his allegations, when he made them; or else he is, as they say; fucked !

Even if every word he said was true; if he didn't know they were true, when he made them; then Dominions case is proven.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:04 pm

TB63 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:40 pm Giuliani, who is also a host for WABC radio, issued the following statement:

“Dominion’s defamation lawsuit for $1.3B will allow me to investigate their history, finances, and practices fully and completely. The amount being asked for is, quite obviously, intended to frighten people of faint heart. It is another act of intimidation by the hate-filled left-wing to wipe out and censor the exercise of free speech, as well as the ability of lawyers to defend their clients vigorously. As such, we will investigate a countersuit against them for violating these Constitutional rights.” – Rudy Giuliani

Isn't this another example of that fine legal mind; that brought so many successful cases, to demonstrate how the election was stolen ?

As I understand it; the big, big, difference between Civil, & Criminal; is that in Civil; you're effectively Guilty, until proven innocent; & not the other way around. So Rudy needs to demonstrate that he wasn't lying; & that he had proof of his allegations, when he made them; or else he is, as they say; fucked !

Even if every word he said was true; if he didn't know they were true, when he made them; then Dominions case is proven.

Like I said- a judge might give him half an hour. He's in very deep trouble right now.

Fox News understood this when Dominion issued their warning, which is why they backed off very quickly

looks like in america the best way to shutup republican relitards is to sue their ass for money they do not have

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:42 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:04 pm

TB63 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:40 pm Giuliani, who is also a host for WABC radio, issued the following statement:

“Dominion’s defamation lawsuit for $1.3B will allow me to investigate their history, finances, and practices fully and completely. The amount being asked for is, quite obviously, intended to frighten people of faint heart. It is another act of intimidation by the hate-filled left-wing to wipe out and censor the exercise of free speech, as well as the ability of lawyers to defend their clients vigorously. As such, we will investigate a countersuit against them for violating these Constitutional rights.” – Rudy Giuliani

Isn't this another example of that fine legal mind; that brought so many successful cases, to demonstrate how the election was stolen ?

As I understand it; the big, big, difference between Civil, & Criminal; is that in Civil; you're effectively Guilty, until proven innocent; & not the other way around. So Rudy needs to demonstrate that he wasn't lying; & that he had proof of his allegations, when he made them; or else he is, as they say; fucked !

Even if every word he said was true; if he didn't know they were true, when he made them; then Dominions case is proven.

Like I said- a judge might give him half an hour. He's in very deep trouble right now.

Fox News understood this when Dominion issued their warning, which is why they backed off very quickly

I'd be surprised if any Judge gave him that long.

Dominion; as you'd expect, played it by very reasonable rules; they gave the loons a couple of warnings, & gave them the opportunity to walk away with a mumbled apology; but the loons kept shouting.

I don't think this will get past the court steps; but if it does; he is truly fucked; as he'll get put in the witness box, & will either have to testify to the last four years of lies, or get tossed in prison for perjury, or contempt; & no one in the GOP want this fuckwit looking for a plea bargain.

The four families must really be asking themselves how the hell this loon put them inside.

I'm not so sure.

I believe that the onus, in the States, is for the claimant to prove that the libel was false and damaging.

I think it may be difficult for Dominion to prove that their software didn't discard ballots, even if it does seem unlikely.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I hope it does put the issue of a stolen election to bed, but I fear it may have the opposite effect if the Judge rules against Dominion.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:20 am I'm not so sure.

I believe that the onus, in the States, is for the claimant to prove that the libel was false and damaging.

I think it may be difficult for Dominion to prove that their software didn't discard ballots, even if it does seem unlikely.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I hope it does put the issue of a stolen election to bed, but I fear it may have the opposite effect if the Judge rules against Dominion.

Already proved by manual recounts in some areas I would have thought?

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:20 am I'm not so sure.

I believe that the onus, in the States, is for the claimant to prove that the libel was false and damaging.

I think it may be difficult for Dominion to prove that their software didn't discard ballots, even if it does seem unlikely.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I hope it does put the issue of a stolen election to bed, but I fear it may have the opposite effect if the Judge rules against Dominion.

Eh, part of the case is that Guiliani didn't bring this stuff up in court as he knew there was no actual evidence of it, but was willing to spread baseless accusations outside of court.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:20 am I'm not so sure.

I believe that the onus, in the States, is for the claimant to prove that the libel was false and damaging.

I think it may be difficult for Dominion to prove that their software didn't discard ballots, even if it does seem unlikely.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I hope it does put the issue of a stolen election to bed, but I fear it may have the opposite effect if the Judge rules against Dominion.

It should be reasonably easy for Dominion to prove that they aren't owned by the Venezuelan government, don;t have links to Antifa, the manual recounts should be proof enough that they didn't "flip" votes, and the harm to the companies rep and it's employees is pretty self evident.

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:52 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:20 am I'm not so sure.

I believe that the onus, in the States, is for the claimant to prove that the libel was false and damaging.

I think it may be difficult for Dominion to prove that their software didn't discard ballots, even if it does seem unlikely.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I hope it does put the issue of a stolen election to bed, but I fear it may have the opposite effect if the Judge rules against Dominion.

It should be reasonably easy for Dominion to prove that they aren't owned by the Venezuelan government, don;t have links to Antifa, the manual recounts should be proof enough that they didn't "flip" votes, and the harm to the companies rep and it's employees is pretty self evident.

Yeah, but they have to prove that Giuliani knowingly lied. It’s not the lie part that’s important, it’s the knowingly. That fact he was spreading lies isn’t relevant. If he believed them to be true, then you don’t get defamation in a US court. You can prove they’re lies all day long, that doesn’t matter. What you have to prove is that Giuliani KNEW they were lies. That’s virtually impossible. It doesn’t matter what he’d seen or been told, he could have still believed they were true., even in the face of all evidence. There’s plenty of evidence out there that he’s barshit Fùcking crazy, so it’s not a push for a court to decide he believed them to be true in the face o fall the evidence. In which case, no defamation.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:43 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:52 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:20 am I'm not so sure.

I believe that the onus, in the States, is for the claimant to prove that the libel was false and damaging.

I think it may be difficult for Dominion to prove that their software didn't discard ballots, even if it does seem unlikely.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I hope it does put the issue of a stolen election to bed, but I fear it may have the opposite effect if the Judge rules against Dominion.

It should be reasonably easy for Dominion to prove that they aren't owned by the Venezuelan government, don;t have links to Antifa, the manual recounts should be proof enough that they didn't "flip" votes, and the harm to the companies rep and it's employees is pretty self evident.

Yeah, but they have to prove that Giuliani knowingly lied. It’s not the lie part that’s important, it’s the knowingly. That fact he was spreading lies isn’t relevant. If he believed them to be true, then you don’t get defamation in a US court. You can prove they’re lies all day long, that doesn’t matter. What you have to prove is that Giuliani KNEW they were lies. That’s virtually impossible. It doesn’t matter what he’d seen or been told, he could have still believed they were true., even in the face of all evidence. There’s plenty of evidence out there that he’s barshit Fùcking crazy, so it’s not a push for a court to decide he believed them to be true in the face o fall the evidence. In which case, no defamation.

The fact that he didn't make those claims in court when he had the opportunity to, and instead admitted there was no evidence, will go a long way to proving that, I suspect.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:48 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:43 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:52 am

It should be reasonably easy for Dominion to prove that they aren't owned by the Venezuelan government, don;t have links to Antifa, the manual recounts should be proof enough that they didn't "flip" votes, and the harm to the companies rep and it's employees is pretty self evident.

Yeah, but they have to prove that Giuliani knowingly lied. It’s not the lie part that’s important, it’s the knowingly. That fact he was spreading lies isn’t relevant. If he believed them to be true, then you don’t get defamation in a US court. You can prove they’re lies all day long, that doesn’t matter. What you have to prove is that Giuliani KNEW they were lies. That’s virtually impossible. It doesn’t matter what he’d seen or been told, he could have still believed they were true., even in the face of all evidence. There’s plenty of evidence out there that he’s barshit Fùcking crazy, so it’s not a push for a court to decide he believed them to be true in the face o fall the evidence. In which case, no defamation.

The fact that he didn't make those claims in court when he had the opportunity to, and instead admitted there was no evidence, will go a long way to proving that, I suspect.

Nah, just because he knew he didn’t have enough evidence to prove what he believed in court doesn’t prove he didn’t believe it.

Lot of negatives in that sentence, sorry.

Am with Biffer here. US allows a surprising amount of leeway with these kind of cases.
Look at the Elon Musk p*edo case for an example.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:12 pm Am with Biffer here. US allows a surprising amount of leeway with these kind of cases.
Look at the Elon Musk p*edo case for an example.

You mean all the lawyers get their (expensive) day in court no matter how ridiculous the case may be?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:07 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:12 pm Am with Biffer here. US allows a surprising amount of leeway with these kind of cases.
Look at the Elon Musk p*edo case for an example.

You mean all the lawyers get their (expensive) day in court no matter how ridiculous the case may be?

Is it possible for a lawyer to welsh on themselves ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55820610

Ho Hum

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:52 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:48 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:43 pm

Yeah, but they have to prove that Giuliani knowingly lied. It’s not the lie part that’s important, it’s the knowingly. That fact he was spreading lies isn’t relevant. If he believed them to be true, then you don’t get defamation in a US court. You can prove they’re lies all day long, that doesn’t matter. What you have to prove is that Giuliani KNEW they were lies. That’s virtually impossible. It doesn’t matter what he’d seen or been told, he could have still believed they were true., even in the face of all evidence. There’s plenty of evidence out there that he’s barshit Fùcking crazy, so it’s not a push for a court to decide he believed them to be true in the face o fall the evidence. In which case, no defamation.

The fact that he didn't make those claims in court when he had the opportunity to, and instead admitted there was no evidence, will go a long way to proving that, I suspect.

Nah, just because he knew he didn’t have enough evidence to prove what he believed in court doesn’t prove he didn’t believe it.

Lot of negatives in that sentence, sorry.

You are correct that defamation is difficult in the States but the key issue for Giuliani is whether he made the claims with 'actual malice', which would mean he made the claims knowing they were false or with a reckless disregard for the truth. Being unwilling to make the statements in court that he was making outside, and when the statements were factual or supposedly based on private knowledge, goes a long way to showing that he perhaps had doubt. Might not be enough to win the case, but might be enough for Dominion to get to look at his emails and text messages and then it gets interesting.

I wonder will the GOP listen to their own voters; or will they just continue to listen to the scumbags & loons who brought them to this point ?

Meet Some Of The 4,600 Colorado Republicans Who Quit The Party After The US Capitol Riot


Lyle Darrah was on a conference call at work when the riot at the U.S. Capitol started on Jan. 6. When his boss mentioned what was happening, he turned on news coverage — and immediately felt his last allegiance to the Republican Party slipping away.

“I was completely shocked and ashamed. That’s not how I think of the Republicans — who we were, and who we are,” he said. “It’s something I felt I could no longer be in support of.”

That night, he talked with his wife over dinner at their home in the Weld County town of Mead. Darrah had been a lifelong Republican, while his spouse and children are Democrats — the kind of family that joked about canceling out each other’s votes.

When their talk was done, Darrah, age 49, sat in his living room and pulled up the state's voter registration website. And then, like thousands of other Coloradans in the wake of the insurrection, he left the Republican Party.

“I think it should be a signal,” said Darrah, a software company director who voted for former-President Donald Trump in 2016 and President Joe Biden in 2020.

They'll listen when the donors stop paying. And even then they'll claim we should move on for the sake of unity.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:20 pm They'll listen when the donors stop paying. And even then they'll claim we should move on for the sake of unity.

I don’t know about your neck of the woods, but I can tell you that here people have a very short memory span paired with a selective one.

I met Rudi Giuliani when he was still a hero after his impressive stint as New York Mayor.

That seems a long time ago now.

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:17 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:20 pm They'll listen when the donors stop paying. And even then they'll claim we should move on for the sake of unity.

I don’t know about your neck of the woods, but I can tell you that here people have a very short memory span paired with a selective one.

A lot of the big company donors have already suspended their donations; they probably will re-start by September, but I think they'll want to see some signs of a direction of travel, before they restart; even if only to give themselves a fig leaf of justification for the decision to restart.

The majority of voters might have a ridiculously short attention span; but as I've repeatedly pointed out, back on PR; the 80% who vote religiously for whatever dog shit candidates their party stands, are irrelevant. The elections are decided by the 20% in the middle, who are open to persuasion one way or the other; & they do pay attention. The donors also pay attention; & if you want proof of that, just look at the disappearance of the likes of Sarah Palin. Once darling of Far Right, & who everyone else looked at, & wondered how such a loon ever got on the ticket. She sunk the GOPs chance of Election that year.

The solid GOP voters would have happily voted for her every day of the week; but the people who could decide the elections knew a loon when the say one; & weren't enthusiastic about one being a heartbeat away from the Presidency. The big donors saw this afterward, & while she kept on plugging, she was unelectable thereafter, so they abandoned her.

How do you explain that 20% voting Trump the first time?

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:11 pm How do you explain that 20% voting Trump the first time?

Hillary Clinton embodied everything people hate about dynasty Politics, & people had hated her from back when Bill was in the WH.

She was a shit candidate, & as I said at the time; I thanked God the GOP had chosen the shitgibbon as their candidate; as he was the only one she stood a chance against. Don't forget; she still won the popular vote; it was just the cluster fuck that is the EC that gifted him the win.

To back up a week being a long time in politics, witness the 45 GOP senators actions this week.

And yes, the electorate has a stunningly bad memory - look at Kentucky under that uberworm McConnell. Consistently in the bottom of the rankings for the good stuff, consistently near the top for the bad. Yet they keep returning the stain on democracy time after time.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:16 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:11 pm How do you explain that 20% voting Trump the first time?

it was just the cluster fuck that is the EC that gifted him the win.

Well there we are, it's the United States, not the United State of America.