The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Yr Alban]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

Which is fair, but somehow Rees-Zammit seems to be immune from the same criticism, despite missing a boatload of tackles during the 6N.

He's the new shiny toy ain't he. Although to be fair he like Duhan is very decent.

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

[Big D]

Which is fair, but somehow Rees-Zammit seems to be immune from the same criticism, despite missing a boatload of tackles during the 6N.

He's the new shiny toy ain't he. Although to be fair he like Duhan is very decent.

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

No he isn't but there is always one newish player seen as the popular shiny new thing about. Was Hogg once upon a time.

[dpedin]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

We looked like a team playing as a team for the first time in yonks ... which we were. Defence is about tackling but also about the system and knowing your role and confidence in the guys inside/outside of you - we didn't look like we we knew what we were doing in the 2nd half. At this level you can't really compete with one of the best teams in Europe in their own backyard having had a week to prepare and have played only about 3 or 4 games together as a team all season. This season was always going to be a shambles and this showed yesterday. With AIs and 6Ns we lost the core of our team for months on end. We also lost our planned back up 10 because of visa issues and then let our best centre go (Scott) because we had to trim budget, The other week we had 24 players unavailable for the game. When we were doing well last season it was because we were doing the same things well week in week out, with little change in the lineup and everyone knew their role, the system and played as a team. Welsh and Irish have had similar problems and are not firing on all cylinders either. The vast majority of English and French teams will lose a few players during international periods but will retain the vast bulk of their squads and will get up to speed and stay there. This season, for all the reasons we know, has been a right off for both us and the Weegies which given we have only 2 pro teams is not in the least surprising. A full pre season, some new signings and some injured guys back fully fit and we will be a different proposition in our new stadium next year.

[Biffer]

Blocked by Matt Williams on Twitter.

I consider that as a positive in my life.

[I like neeps]

He's the new shiny toy ain't he. Although to be fair he like Duhan is very decent.

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

No he isn't but there is always one newish player seen as the popular shiny new thing about. Was Hogg once upon a time.

I think also it's hard for a residency qualification to be uniformly popular. It's no surprise more people will push LRZ for the Lions than VdM.

Not to get into "that discussion" but van Der Merwe playing SA with the Lions is just not going to be something all fans agree with/want. Especially if SA pick his brother!

[Big D]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

We looked like a team playing as a team for the first time in yonks ... which we were. Defence is about tackling but also about the system and knowing your role and confidence in the guys inside/outside of you - we didn't look like we we knew what we were doing in the 2nd half. At this level you can't really compete with one of the best teams in Europe in their own backyard having had a week to prepare and have played only about 3 or 4 games together as a team all season. This season was always going to be a shambles and this showed yesterday. With AIs and 6Ns we lost the core of our team for months on end. We also lost our planned back up 10 because of visa issues and then let our best centre go (Scott) because we had to trim budget, The other week we had 24 players unavailable for the game. When we were doing well last season it was because we were doing the same things well week in week out, with little change in the lineup and everyone knew their role, the system and played as a team. Welsh and Irish have had similar problems and are not firing on all cylinders either. The vast majority of English and French teams will lose a few players during international periods but will retain the vast bulk of their squads and will get up to speed and stay there. This season, for all the reasons we know, has been a right off for both us and the Weegies which given we have only 2 pro teams is not in the least surprising. A full pre season, some new signings and some injured guys back fully fit and we will be a different proposition in our new stadium next year.

The number of missing players is a little bit of a red herring. That was a first choice starting pack bar McInally and a second row. They had a first choice backline available bar Dean (wherever he fits in).

Coaching decisions and choices (pumping money into the forwards and letting Scott go, the issue that lead to Bhatti leaving mid season, benching Pyrgos, VdW and Bennett, not giving Chamberlain minutes unless they really really had to etc) have led to where the team is now. Lance not signing should have been a blessing in disguise for blooding Chamberlain but he has had close to double digit unused sub appearances. Meanwhile they have continued to invest in the forwards while VdM and apparently Bennett are away and brought in a 3rd/4th choice Wasps 9 and Lang. It is arguable whether the forwards are better off with Berghan, Davison, and Darge leaving with Young, De Bruin and McBurney coming in, the backs are definitely worse off than last season especially if Bennett goes..

The parallels between Edinburgh and Cockerills end at Tigers are there to see even allowing for Covid. He could have used this season to try and bring on the young talents Edinburgh have but he has stuck to the same old players.

And the coaching staff had their first choice 9, 10, 13 available who have played most of the season

[robmatic]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

We looked like a team playing as a team for the first time in yonks ... which we were. Defence is about tackling but also about the system and knowing your role and confidence in the guys inside/outside of you - we didn't look like we we knew what we were doing in the 2nd half. At this level you can't really compete with one of the best teams in Europe in their own backyard having had a week to prepare and have played only about 3 or 4 games together as a team all season. This season was always going to be a shambles and this showed yesterday. With AIs and 6Ns we lost the core of our team for months on end. We also lost our planned back up 10 because of visa issues and then let our best centre go (Scott) because we had to trim budget, The other week we had 24 players unavailable for the game. When we were doing well last season it was because we were doing the same things well week in week out, with little change in the lineup and everyone knew their role, the system and played as a team. Welsh and Irish have had similar problems and are not firing on all cylinders either. The vast majority of English and French teams will lose a few players during international periods but will retain the vast bulk of their squads and will get up to speed and stay there. This season, for all the reasons we know, has been a right off for both us and the Weegies which given we have only 2 pro teams is not in the least surprising. A full pre season, some new signings and some injured guys back fully fit and we will be a different proposition in our new stadium next year.

It's still quite hard to take a humping like that though. In hindsight could have done with a bit more game management instead of having Kinghorn at 10 as we didn't have much possession or territory in the first half, then we just got picked apart when we tried to play fast and loose in the second half.

[Yr Alban]

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

No he isn't but there is always one newish player seen as the popular shiny new thing about. Was Hogg once upon a time.

I think also it's hard for a residency qualification to be uniformly popular. It's no surprise more people will push LRZ for the Lions than VdM.

Not to get into "that discussion" but van Der Merwe playing SA with the Lions is just not going to be something all fans agree with/want. Especially if SA pick his brother!

Yeah, that’s a fair point. The same thing has happened to players who aren’t ‘residency poaches’ though.

Here’s a question: have Scotland ever capped anyone on a residency qualification whose country of origin had shown any interest in them at senior level? The only one I can think of is Tim Visser, and the Netherlands isn’t exactly a rugby hotbed.

I did briefly wonder whether Cam Redpath might be the first, but he didn’t qualify by residence, and I don’t see that England had any more right to him than we did.

[Biffer]

We’ve only really had a very small number of residency players. Nel, VdM, Schoeman to come, VdW, Kebble, du Preez, Johnson, Strauss, Hilton. Maybe a few more. The door is being closed any way, so there’s not really a big debate here anyway imo. Big difference when it’s five years.

[I like neeps]

No he isn't but there is always one newish player seen as the popular shiny new thing about. Was Hogg once upon a time.

I think also it's hard for a residency qualification to be uniformly popular. It's no surprise more people will push LRZ for the Lions than VdM.

Not to get into "that discussion" but van Der Merwe playing SA with the Lions is just not going to be something all fans agree with/want. Especially if SA pick his brother!

Yeah, that’s a fair point. The same thing has happened to players who aren’t ‘residency poaches’ though.

Here’s a question: have Scotland ever capped anyone on a residency qualification whose country of origin had shown any interest in them at senior level? The only one I can think of is Tim Visser, and the Netherlands isn’t exactly a rugby hotbed.

I did briefly wonder whether Cam Redpath might be the first, but he didn’t qualify by residence, and I don’t see that England had any more right to him than we did.

True but I think if Duhan had an anglicised name it's just a bit different in how he is viewed because other than defensively he can't do more.

I don't think many of the players we pick up would be capped by other nations. I think that's part of people's problem with it though? Not good enough to play internationally for England/SA/NZ so come to Scotland to do it.

[clydecloggie]

I think also it's hard for a residency qualification to be uniformly popular. It's no surprise more people will push LRZ for the Lions than VdM.

Not to get into "that discussion" but van Der Merwe playing SA with the Lions is just not going to be something all fans agree with/want. Especially if SA pick his brother!

Yeah, that’s a fair point. The same thing has happened to players who aren’t ‘residency poaches’ though.

Here’s a question: have Scotland ever capped anyone on a residency qualification whose country of origin had shown any interest in them at senior level? The only one I can think of is Tim Visser, and the Netherlands isn’t exactly a rugby hotbed.

I did briefly wonder whether Cam Redpath might be the first, but he didn’t qualify by residence, and I don’t see that England had any more right to him than we did.

True but I think if Duhan had an anglicised name it's just a bit different in how he is viewed because other than defensively he can't do more.

I don't think many of the players we pick up would be capped by other nations. I think that's part of people's problem with it though? Not good enough to play internationally for England/SA/NZ so come to Scotland to do it.

McMerwe and Redpath might give the lie to that - they could end up as bona fide top internationals who could have played for other teams.

[I like neeps]

Yeah, that’s a fair point. The same thing has happened to players who aren’t ‘residency poaches’ though.

Here’s a question: have Scotland ever capped anyone on a residency qualification whose country of origin had shown any interest in them at senior level? The only one I can think of is Tim Visser, and the Netherlands isn’t exactly a rugby hotbed.

I did briefly wonder whether Cam Redpath might be the first, but he didn’t qualify by residence, and I don’t see that England had any more right to him than we did.

True but I think if Duhan had an anglicised name it's just a bit different in how he is viewed because other than defensively he can't do more.

I don't think many of the players we pick up would be capped by other nations. I think that's part of people's problem with it though? Not good enough to play internationally for England/SA/NZ so come to Scotland to do it.

McMerwe and Redpath might give the lie to that - they could end up as bona fide top internationals who could have played for other teams.

Redpath certainly as he seems to have had the choice Scotland Vs England.

VdM didn't have that choice. He had Edinburgh Vs no contract when he failed his medical. I guess he could've refused to re-sign and gone back to SA to try and play super rugby and for the Boks. It's not as if he grew up wanting to play for Scotland in the way Redpath probably did.

[JM2K6]

Which is fair, but somehow Rees-Zammit seems to be immune from the same criticism, despite missing a boatload of tackles during the 6N.

He's the new shiny toy ain't he. Although to be fair he like Duhan is very decent.

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

I don't know why LRZ has made you guys quite so angry but I think you're all missing the point that the guy is 20, everyone is more willing to accept that he has a lot to learn still and is only at the very start of his career. The impact he's had at such a young age is remarkable.

A 25-year-old like Duhan is not going to be given the same amount of leeway for his problems or excite people quite so much with his potential ceiling.

I don't think nationality has much to do with it.

[KingBlairhorn]

He's the new shiny toy ain't he. Although to be fair he like Duhan is very decent.

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

I don't know why LRZ has made you guys quite so angry but I think you're all missing the point that the guy is 20, everyone is more willing to accept that he has a lot to learn still and is only at the very start of his career. The impact he's had at such a young age is remarkable.

A 25-year-old like Duhan is not going to be given the same amount of leeway for his problems or excite people quite so much with his potential ceiling.

I don't think nationality has much to do with it.

I don’t think anyone is angry.

Your point is correct but also irrelevant; the discussion point is why would Duhan’s weaknesses matter and LRZ’s not when talking about Lions selection. That has nothing to do with ceiling and everything to do with the quality of a player here, today, now.

For the record I think LRZ has the potential to be a world class player, as he is already outstanding.

[clydecloggie]

Oh, he’s a great player, no doubt. It just pisses me off that when it’s a Scotland player, people immediately hone in on their perceived weaknesses in a Lions context, but players from other countries are viewed far less critically.

Also, LRZ isn’t really any newer than Duhan.

I don't know why LRZ has made you guys quite so angry but I think you're all missing the point that the guy is 20, everyone is more willing to accept that he has a lot to learn still and is only at the very start of his career. The impact he's had at such a young age is remarkable.

A 25-year-old like Duhan is not going to be given the same amount of leeway for his problems or excite people quite so much with his potential ceiling.

I don't think nationality has much to do with it.

I don’t think anyone is angry.

Your point is correct but also irrelevant; the discussion point is why would Duhan’s weaknesses matter and LRZ’s not when talking about Lions selection. That has nothing to do with ceiling and everything to do with the quality of a player here, today, now.

For the record I think LRZ has the potential to be a world class player, as he is already outstanding.

Of course most British rugby fans would rather see an upstanding English lad, whose only fault is not actually playing for England, in the Lions than a Saffer mercenary. Completely understandable. But the same pattern is there with actual Scottish players. Because Scotland is probably the easiest national team to get into out of the Lions 4, it is automatically assumed that Scottish players are therefore not as good as Welsh, Irish or English. This may hold true for fringe players and few-cap wonders, but the best Scotland starting XV is man for man no worse than the other three. As can be seen by recent results, which were all close.

[Big D]

I don't know why LRZ has made you guys quite so angry but I think you're all missing the point that the guy is 20, everyone is more willing to accept that he has a lot to learn still and is only at the very start of his career. The impact he's had at such a young age is remarkable.

A 25-year-old like Duhan is not going to be given the same amount of leeway for his problems or excite people quite so much with his potential ceiling.

I don't think nationality has much to do with it.

I don’t think anyone is angry.

Your point is correct but also irrelevant; the discussion point is why would Duhan’s weaknesses matter and LRZ’s not when talking about Lions selection. That has nothing to do with ceiling and everything to do with the quality of a player here, today, now.

For the record I think LRZ has the potential to be a world class player, as he is already outstanding.

Of course most British rugby fans would rather see an upstanding English lad, whose only fault is not actually playing for England, in the Lions than a Saffer mercenary. Completely understandable. But the same pattern is there with actual Scottish players. Because Scotland is probably the easiest national team to get into out of the Lions 4, it is automatically assumed that Scottish players are therefore not as good as Welsh, Irish or English. This may hold true for fringe players and few-cap wonders, but the best Scotland starting XV is man for man no worse than the other three. As can be seen by recent results, which were all close.

LRZ is definitely Welsh isn't he? Welsh born and educated before moving to Hartpury?

I don't have a problem with LRZ, a hugely exciting talent with a higher ceiling than many wingers out there. Like you say I suspect most Scots are scarred by lack of representation on past Lions tours and feeling like many close calls don't go the navy blue way.

Personally I am still not convinced DVdM should tour but completely understand people being defensive about some comments around his supposed deficiencies.

Plus Chris Harris can cover wing so not sure Duhan or LRZ are really required...

[Jock42]

I don’t think anyone is angry.

Your point is correct but also irrelevant; the discussion point is why would Duhan’s weaknesses matter and LRZ’s not when talking about Lions selection. That has nothing to do with ceiling and everything to do with the quality of a player here, today, now.

For the record I think LRZ has the potential to be a world class player, as he is already outstanding.

Of course most British rugby fans would rather see an upstanding English lad, whose only fault is not actually playing for England, in the Lions than a Saffer mercenary. Completely understandable. But the same pattern is there with actual Scottish players. Because Scotland is probably the easiest national team to get into out of the Lions 4, it is automatically assumed that Scottish players are therefore not as good as Welsh, Irish or English. This may hold true for fringe players and few-cap wonders, but the best Scotland starting XV is man for man no worse than the other three. As can be seen by recent results, which were all close.

LRZ is definitely Welsh isn't he? Welsh born and educated before moving to Hartpury?

I don't have a problem with LRZ, a hugely exciting talent with a higher ceiling than many wingers out there. Like you say I suspect most Scots are scarred by lack of representation on past Lions tours and feeling like many close calls don't go the navy blue way.

Personally I am still not convinced DVdM should tour but completely understand people being defensive about some comments around his supposed deficiencies.

Plus Chris Harris can cover wing so not sure Duhan or LRZ are really required...

Its the reactions to VDM missing a tackle (1 of 3 I think) that's held up as a reason why he shouldn't tour but LRZ not being questioned despite missing 3 times as much.

Perhaps there are just as many people highlighting these deficiencies in others whilst supporting their preferred player but it doesn't feel like that.

[Big D]

Its the reactions to VDM missing a tackle (1 of 3 I think) that's held up as a reason why he shouldn't tour but LRZ not being questioned despite missing 3 times as much.

Perhaps there are just as many people highlighting these deficiencies in others whilst supporting their preferred player but it doesn't feel like that.

There are more rugby fans from other countries on social media, probably several times more vocal fans too. It will always be the case as rugby just isn't as popular here. And with social media and forums there are always some who take massively entrenched views and some that are good to debate with.

There are valid criticisms of his defence in general (particularly positioning) but the reaction to the missed tackle was a bit OTT. In saying that, most of the criticism has come from fans on social media and I am still seeing him in pundits teams and squads.

[Begbie]

Anyone know much about young Sale prop Bevan Rodd? How is he SQ? Is he any good?
Apparently England are thinking of capping him to stop us getting him.

[I like neeps]

Anyone know much about young Sale prop Bevan Rodd? How is he SQ? Is he any good?
Apparently England are thinking of capping him to stop us getting him.

He is outstanding for a 20 year old LH prop. When I've watched Sale he's been noticeable which for a LH is odd - they have to be good to be noticeable. Watching him I got the same "can't believe England are getting him" annoyance I got with Redpath.

He'd be a coup.

[duke]

Anyone know much about young Sale prop Bevan Rodd? How is he SQ? Is he any good?
Apparently England are thinking of capping him to stop us getting him.

He is outstanding for a 20 year old LH prop. When I've watched Sale he's been noticeable which for a LH is odd. Watching him I got the same "can't believe England are getting him" annoyance I got with Redpath.

He'd be a coup.

He was born in Dunoon per the Sale website

[I like neeps]

Anyone know much about young Sale prop Bevan Rodd? How is he SQ? Is he any good?
Apparently England are thinking of capping him to stop us getting him.

He is outstanding for a 20 year old LH prop. When I've watched Sale he's been noticeable which for a LH is odd. Watching him I got the same "can't believe England are getting him" annoyance I got with Redpath.

He'd be a coup.

He was born in Dunoon per the Sale website

Yeah played for Buchan Rugby Club who I think are Scottish?

But has been in England a while as he's been in their under16s age grade upwards.

[duke]

He grew up on the Isle of Man - the Buchan referred to is his school on the IOM (all per Google).

[westport]

BT extended with a 3 year deal with Scottish Rugby

[dkm57]

He grew up on the Isle of Man - the Buchan referred to is his school on the IOM (all per Google).

I could be wrong but from the very darkest, dustiest recesses of my memory, I seem to remember that the Manx are Q'd for any of the home nations.

[Biffer]

He grew up on the Isle of Man - the Buchan referred to is his school on the IOM (all per Google).

I could be wrong but from the very darkest, dustiest recesses of my memory, I seem to remember that the Manx are Q'd for any of the home nations.

Yeah, don’t call a Manxman English, it won’t go well for you. Mark Cavendish (cyclist) was very spiky about it in press conferences

[duke]

He grew up on the Isle of Man - the Buchan referred to is his school on the IOM (all per Google).

I could be wrong but from the very darkest, dustiest recesses of my memory, I seem to remember that the Manx are Q'd for any of the home nations.

You could well be correct as it's like the Channel Islands (Crown Protectorate?)

[dkm57]

So he wouldn't be a poach then

[Soapy]

Anyone know much about young Sale prop Bevan Rodd? How is he SQ? Is he any good?
Apparently England are thinking of capping him to stop us getting him.

If he sees himself as firmly English fine but if playing internationally for Scotland is a consideration, he'd be sensible to look at the treatment of the likes of Zach Mercer and think long and hard before committing to Eddie Jones' approach to selection.

That said, Toony Tombola has its risks.

[Jock42]

BT extended with a 3 year deal with Scottish Rugby

No longer the main sponsor on the shirt though. Another announcement due

[Biffer]

It's soccerball, but the April Fool in the Sun yesterday was good

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/ ... its-euros/

[Biffer]

BT extended with a 3 year deal with Scottish Rugby

No longer the main sponsor on the shirt though. Another announcement due

Glad I got a shirt this year, the BT logo is quite unobtrusive. Might end up with some horrible clutter on the front next year.

[westport]

BT extended with a 3 year deal with Scottish Rugby

No longer the main sponsor on the shirt though. Another announcement due

Scottish Rugby has secured the Peter Vardy Group as a new Principal Partner and new front of shirt sponsor for the Scotland men’s national team.

[Biffer]

BT extended with a 3 year deal with Scottish Rugby

No longer the main sponsor on the shirt though. Another announcement due

Scottish Rugby has secured the Peter Vardy Group as a new Principal Partner and new front of shirt sponsor for the Scotland men’s national team.

Fair enough. Doesn't look like they have a set colour scheme to splurge across the font, and if they're paying good money, grand.

[Tichtheid]

Electric Range Rovers all round, then?

[Jock42]

BT extended with a 3 year deal with Scottish Rugby

No longer the main sponsor on the shirt though. Another announcement due

Scottish Rugby has secured the Peter Vardy Group as a new Principal Partner and new front of shirt sponsor for the Scotland men’s national team.

They're a good sized company so hopefully brings in a decent amount of cash

[Jock42]

They'll also have their logo on the back of the 7s top and somewhere on Embras top.

[I like neeps]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... oker-away/

England after Ashman. Should've capped him.

[Yr Alban]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... oker-away/

England after Ashman. Should've capped him.

WTF is it about Eddie Jones and Scotland qualified players?

I’d be surprised if Ashman switched now. He’s been with Scotland since U16 and his dad is Scottish.

[I like neeps]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... oker-away/

England after Ashman. Should've capped him.

WTF is it about Eddie Jones and Scotland qualified players?

I’d be surprised if Ashman switched now. He’s been with Scotland since U16 and his dad is Scottish.

16 grand a week in camp to play for the world cup finalists though. If I'm 21 I'm not turning down a chance to make 50k for four weeks work.

Eddie Jones and the RFU are probably asking what is it with Scotland and EQP players too. Ashman, Rodd and Redpath are all exceptionally talented though. It's not like when he picked Gary Graham and Ben Vellacott.

Not capturing Ashman would be a disaster for us. We can't produce a good hooker for love nor money and he was as good a player I've seen for Scotland under 20s. It's Toonie's fault if we don't get him all it took would have been benching him Vs Italy.