F**k all you fashionistas who buy SUVs

[Un Pilier]

Snow again today where I live and, as usual, my Landrover was the only thing moving up or down the hill. Picked some stuff up for a few neighbours. Nobody whinged.

[Torquemada 1420]

Snow again today where I live and, as usual, my Landrover was the only thing moving up or down the hill. Picked some stuff up for a few neighbours. Nobody whinged.

Land Rover is not an SUV. And it's already been pointed out that proper off road stuff is fine if you live on a farm or up the Grampians. But should point out that my 4WD Skoda estate on its Winter tyres will pretty much go anywhere your Landie will on the public highway and where it can't, you probably shouldn't!

[Sandstorm]

Snow again today where I live and, as usual, my Landrover was the only thing moving up or down the hill. Picked some stuff up for a few neighbours. Nobody whinged.

Was that up Hampstead Heath?

[Un Pilier]

Snow again today where I live and, as usual, my Landrover was the only thing moving up or down the hill. Picked some stuff up for a few neighbours. Nobody whinged.

Land Rover is not an SUV. And it's already been pointed out that proper off road stuff is fine if you live on a farm or up the Grampians. But should point out that my 4WD Skoda estate on its Winter tyres will pretty much go anywhere your Landie will on the public highway and where it can't, you probably shouldn't!

Yes, I just thought I’d have a little prod with a pointed stick

[Hal Jordan]

Is that to try and get the Land Rover going when it breaks down again?

[SaintK]

Snow again today where I live and, as usual, my Landrover was the only thing moving up or down the hill. Picked some stuff up for a few neighbours. Nobody whinged.

Was that up Hampstead Heath?

The North face of Haverstock Hill can be a bastard when it snows

[laurent]

To be fair any car with decent winter clothing will get through ... even my old C4 can handle snow...

[Niegs]

I wonder if some small cars, with proper tyres, aren't better? I know my rear-wheel drive pickup fishtails in the snow and I need to put a load of weight in the back just to give it some traction. SUVs are bigger, heavier, higher than cars ... and it's not like the UK is getting big dumps of snow where ground clearance could be an issue?

[laurent]

I wonder if some small cars, with proper tyres, aren't better? I know my rear-wheel drive pickup fishtails in the snow and I need to put a load of weight in the back just to give it some traction. SUVs are bigger, heavier, higher than cars ... and it's not like the UK is getting big dumps of snow where ground clearance could be an issue?

rear wheels are useless...

take a 2CV and you are laughing ...

Most Front wheel cars are fine on 2 winter tyres if you leave there (like switzerland or French mountains) you get 2 tyre sets and change in winter and you are fine (keeping a set of chains for real shit stuff).

[Uncle fester]

Setting aside my hate for them and all they stand for, their existence in entirely irrational. For the vast majority of aspects, an estate car is better (and yes, I have an estate car)

1) They have more usable space. In fact, SUVs etc have very poor space and especially the boot.
2) As has been mentioned SUVs take up a load of road space though and are generally driven by idiots who can't drive.
3) Safety
- an estate is more stable
- an estate can stop more safely
- an estate is better for pedestrians in an impact
- an estate doesn't obstruct other road users' views in the same way
4) Environment
- an estate is more fuel efficient
- less noisy (SUVs are bricks going through the air)

The ONLY rationale for these type of vehicles are
- you have mobility issues so getting in and out of lower vehicles is hard
- you live in an environment were some sort of off road is required e.g. a proper Land Rover or Range Rover type

The rest of the owners should have these things taxed off the face of the planet.

This. When I do trade in my Octavia, I'll be looking for a nice estate with tow hitch. Plenty of estates have 4wd too.

[Un Pilier]

To be fair any car with decent winter clothing will get through ... even my old C4 can handle snow...

I suspect you don’t see much deep snow. Or steep hills.

[mat the expat]

I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.

The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them

[Jambanja]

I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.

The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them

Not sure about Aus but in NZ the smaller compact SUV’s are becoming increasingly popular
My wife has just bought a Mazda CX-3
The Hyundai Konas are also very popular

[Tichtheid]

I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.

That holds for most cars, a mini ain't so mini any more.

[clydecloggie]

Agree completely that estate cars are better. But I also want an EV. The larger of which only come as SUVs.

Tesla Model X is the same bullshit size as yer X5 / XC90 / Q7 etc., but an EV. Is it partially exempt from justified SUV hatred or not?

[Sandstorm]

Agree completely that estate cars are better. But I also want an EV. The larger of which only come as SUVs.

Tesla Model X is the same bullshit size as yer X5 / XC90 / Q7 etc., but an EV. Is it partially exempt from justified SUV hatred or not?

The X is classified as a ship, not an SUV. Grossly oversized and butt-ugly.

[laurent]

To be fair any car with decent winter clothing will get through ... even my old C4 can handle snow...

I suspect you don’t see much deep snow. Or steep hills.

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

[Jambanja]

If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

[Sandstorm]

A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version,

I think you've made a typo there, mate It's about $6000 more expensive

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant

If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless

[clydecloggie]

Agree completely that estate cars are better. But I also want an EV. The larger of which only come as SUVs.

Tesla Model X is the same bullshit size as yer X5 / XC90 / Q7 etc., but an EV. Is it partially exempt from justified SUV hatred or not?

The X is classified as a ship, not an SUV. Grossly oversized and butt-ugly.

Good to hear it's exempt from SUV hatred

Agree it's not a looker.

[Sandstorm]

https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant

If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless

Audi A4 is 10cm longer than the Q5.

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant

If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless

Audi A4 is 10cm longer than the Q5.

Yup. Which is my point about SUVs having no storage/boot space thus rendering it utter bollox that "we have need a family vehicle". I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.

[Sandstorm]

I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.

Possibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.

[GogLais]

I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.

Possibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.

Oh goody, it's become a car minutiae thread. Is there such a thing as an A4 saloon? It'll be a hatch with a loose parcel shelf won't it?

[Torquemada 1420]

I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.

Possibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.

Oh goody, it's become a car minutiae thread. Is there such a thing as an A4 saloon? It'll be a hatch with a loose parcel shelf won't it?

No. Audis are still saloon and estate (Avant). Unlike, say, the Skoda Octavia (although that is the Golf platform).

[GogLais]

Possibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.

Oh goody, it's become a car minutiae thread. Is there such a thing as an A4 saloon? It'll be a hatch with a loose parcel shelf won't it?

No. Audis are still saloon and estate (Avant). Unlike, say, the Skoda Octavia (although that is the Golf platform).

Oh right. I’m genuinely surprised but then maybe not. I guess the likes of Mercedes still make plenty of C Class saloons.

[Hal Jordan]

If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

[Sandstorm]

If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

You still "buy" the car new for £30k.

[Blackmac]

https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant

If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless

I repeated this sort of stuff for weeks just before my wife went out and got her Q3.

[Jambanja]

A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version,

I think you've made a typo there, mate It's about $6000 more expensive

Not in NZ it's not
The Kona EV in NZ starts at $73 990
The petrol version starts at $31 990

So I was wrong, there's a $42 000 price difference

[mat the expat]

I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.

The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them

Not sure about Aus but in NZ the smaller compact SUV’s are becoming increasingly popular
My wife has just bought a Mazda CX-3
The Hyundai Konas are also very popular

Yet, they all sit higher

[Jambanja]

I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.

The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them

Not sure about Aus but in NZ the smaller compact SUV’s are becoming increasingly popular
My wife has just bought a Mazda CX-3
The Hyundai Konas are also very popular

Yet, they all sit higher

I don't think that 155mm clearance is that high, the Subaru Outlander is over 200 and that's a station wagon
The Mazda 3 hatch is 140 so 15mm less

[Carter's Choice]

My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.

[Jambanja]

My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.

This is probably one of the main reasons why people buy big SUV’s, they feel safe and can see better.
I’ll never forget overhearing a conversation between my Dad and his brothers about whether it was appropriate for their ageing mother to be driving around in the rather large Merc sedan she had and the conclusion was that at least in that car she was one of the big ones and if she ever had a crash she would more than likely come off better that the other party, she was in her seventies at the time

[Torquemada 1420]

If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

Always pay cash for our vehicles and always have done.

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant

If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless

I repeated this sort of stuff for weeks just before my wife went out and got her Q3.

That'll teach you to give her room to do more than discuss fluffy kittens.

[Torquemada 1420]

My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.

Except this is another one of those bollox strawmen trotted out by the fashion victims.
a) There are now so many SUVs on the roads to go with commercial vehicles (vans, trucks, buses, coaches) that there is no additional vision except for the 3 seconds coming off your drive. In some ways, there is less vision i.e. seeing small children, animals etc
b) If you need to be that high off the road to feel like you are a safe driver, then you probably shouldn't be driving at all. FWIW, I've driven ground hugging sports cars for 4 decades now and never felt the need to install a baby highchair.

"Smaller vehicle". Well, that's kinda a point here. Although they are larger by bulk, they actually afford no more or less useable space than a trad car.

Fair play on admitting the small man syndrome

[Sandstorm]

SUVs are cool, fashionable and a sign of upward mobility. If you drive an estate, you're a sales rep and a new Focus hatchback...well, you're clearly barely above the breadline and are probably down the foodbank after school run.

[SaintK]

My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.

Except this is another one of those bollox strawmen trotted out by the fashion victims.
a) There are now so many SUVs on the roads to go with commercial vehicles (vans, trucks, buses, coaches) that there is no additional vision except for the 3 seconds coming off your drive. In some ways, there is less vision i.e. seeing small children, animals etc
b) If you need to be that high off the road to feel like you are a safe driver, then you probably shouldn't be driving at all. FWIW, I've driven ground hugging sports cars for 4 decades now and never felt the need to install a baby highchair.

"Smaller vehicle". Well, that's kinda a point here. Although they are larger by bulk, they actually afford no more or less useable space than a trad car.

Fair play on admitting the small man syndrome

very well put!