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Land Rover is not an SUV. And it's already been pointed out that proper off road stuff is fine if you live on a farm or up the Grampians. But should point out that my 4WD Skoda estate on its Winter tyres will pretty much go anywhere your Landie will on the public highway and where it can't, you probably shouldn't!
Yes, I just thought I’d have a little prod with a pointed stickTorquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:06 amLand Rover is not an SUV. And it's already been pointed out that proper off road stuff is fine if you live on a farm or up the Grampians. But should point out that my 4WD Skoda estate on its Winter tyres will pretty much go anywhere your Landie will on the public highway and where it can't, you probably shouldn't!
The North face of Haverstock Hill can be a bastard when it snows
rear wheels are useless...Niegs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:25 pm I wonder if some small cars, with proper tyres, aren't better? I know my rear-wheel drive pickup fishtails in the snow and I need to put a load of weight in the back just to give it some traction. SUVs are bigger, heavier, higher than cars ... and it's not like the UK is getting big dumps of snow where ground clearance could be an issue?
This. When I do trade in my Octavia, I'll be looking for a nice estate with tow hitch. Plenty of estates have 4wd too.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:50 am Setting aside my hate for them and all they stand for, their existence in entirely irrational. For the vast majority of aspects, an estate car is better (and yes, I have an estate car)
1) They have more usable space. In fact, SUVs etc have very poor space and especially the boot.
2) As has been mentioned SUVs take up a load of road space though and are generally driven by idiots who can't drive.
3) Safety
- an estate is more stable
- an estate can stop more safely
- an estate is better for pedestrians in an impact
- an estate doesn't obstruct other road users' views in the same way
4) Environment
- an estate is more fuel efficient
- less noisy (SUVs are bricks going through the air)
The ONLY rationale for these type of vehicles are
- you have mobility issues so getting in and out of lower vehicles is hard
- you live in an environment were some sort of off road is required e.g. a proper Land Rover or Range Rover type
The rest of the owners should have these things taxed off the face of the planet.
Not sure about Aus but in NZ the smaller compact SUV’s are becoming increasingly popularmat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.
The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them
mat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.
The X is classified as a ship, not an SUV. Grossly oversized and butt-ugly.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:26 am Agree completely that estate cars are better. But I also want an EV. The larger of which only come as SUVs.
Tesla Model X is the same bullshit size as yer X5 / XC90 / Q7 etc., but an EV. Is it partially exempt from justified SUV hatred or not?
Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed
If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless
Good to hear it's exempt from SUV hatredSandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:47 amThe X is classified as a ship, not an SUV. Grossly oversized and butt-ugly.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:26 am Agree completely that estate cars are better. But I also want an EV. The larger of which only come as SUVs.
Tesla Model X is the same bullshit size as yer X5 / XC90 / Q7 etc., but an EV. Is it partially exempt from justified SUV hatred or not?
Audi A4 is 10cm longer than the Q5.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:21 am https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant
If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless
Yup. Which is my point about SUVs having no storage/boot space thus rendering it utter bollox that "we have need a family vehicle". I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:38 amAudi A4 is 10cm longer than the Q5.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:21 am https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant
If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless
Possibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:49 am I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.
Oh goody, it's become a car minutiae thread. Is there such a thing as an A4 saloon? It'll be a hatch with a loose parcel shelf won't it?Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:20 amPossibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:49 am I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.
No. Audis are still saloon and estate (Avant). Unlike, say, the Skoda Octavia (although that is the Golf platform).GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:10 pmOh goody, it's become a car minutiae thread. Is there such a thing as an A4 saloon? It'll be a hatch with a loose parcel shelf won't it?Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:20 amPossibly by volume, but it's more awkward having a fixed parcel shelf in a saloon when you want to load up the whole storage area.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:49 am I reckon the A4 saloon has more storage than the Q5.
Oh right. I’m genuinely surprised but then maybe not. I guess the likes of Mercedes still make plenty of C Class saloons.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:53 pmNo. Audis are still saloon and estate (Avant). Unlike, say, the Skoda Octavia (although that is the Golf platform).
Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.Jambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 am If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront
You still "buy" the car new for £30k.Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:02 pmWho buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.Jambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 am If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront
I repeated this sort of stuff for weeks just before my wife went out and got her Q3.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:21 am https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant
If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless
Not in NZ it's not
Yet, they all sit higherJambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:08 amNot sure about Aus but in NZ the smaller compact SUV’s are becoming increasingly popularmat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.
The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them
My wife has just bought a Mazda CX-3
The Hyundai Konas are also very popular
I don't think that 155mm clearance is that high, the Subaru Outlander is over 200 and that's a station wagonmat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:58 pmYet, they all sit higherJambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:08 amNot sure about Aus but in NZ the smaller compact SUV’s are becoming increasingly popularmat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am I hate the whole "Arms Race" of size increasing with them.
The view ahead on the road is usually completely blocked by them
My wife has just bought a Mazda CX-3
The Hyundai Konas are also very popular
This is probably one of the main reasons why people buy big SUV’s, they feel safe and can see better.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:36 am My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.
Always pay cash for our vehicles and always have done.Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:02 pmWho buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.Jambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 am If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront
Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:58 pmI repeated this sort of stuff for weeks just before my wife went out and got her Q3.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:21 am https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a4-avant
If there was a reason to walk straight past a compact SUV, the Audi A4 Avant is probably it. In all honesty, it’s probably not the A4’s stellar brilliance that informs this, good though it is, but solid proof that a normal estate is such a well executed family car, it happily renders most SUVs as completely pointless
Except this is another one of those bollox strawmen trotted out by the fashion victims.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:36 am My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:35 amExcept this is another one of those bollox strawmen trotted out by the fashion victims.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:36 am My wife and I both drive Toyota SUV's. Whilst we live in a regional town, we never drive off road or on unsealed roads. I like the extra size of an SUV compared to a sedan, it makes my penis feel a bit larger. I also like being higher and the additional vision that affords. I get that they are bit more expensive to run and aren't as environmentally friendly, but I can't see myself going back to a smaller vehicle.
a) There are now so many SUVs on the roads to go with commercial vehicles (vans, trucks, buses, coaches) that there is no additional vision except for the 3 seconds coming off your drive. In some ways, there is less vision i.e. seeing small children, animals etc
b) If you need to be that high off the road to feel like you are a safe driver, then you probably shouldn't be driving at all. FWIW, I've driven ground hugging sports cars for 4 decades now and never felt the need to install a baby highchair.
"Smaller vehicle". Well, that's kinda a point here. Although they are larger by bulk, they actually afford no more or less useable space than a trad car.
Fair play on admitting the small man syndrome
very well put!