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Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:55 am
by Insane_Homer
Rugby is a dangerous sport is about the dumbest counter argument I've heard in a long time. :clap:

What do you think that very explicit law was written for then?

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:57 am
by Grandpa
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:40 am
I did, and if you watch, the first contact comes whilst May is still on the ground. I'll admit it's bloody close, but it's true, which rather stops the "He jumped into the tackle." The picture you showed isn't the start is it...

I froze the video at the point of first contact... May appears to be airborne?

First Contact.png
First Contact.png (318.74 KiB) Viewed 695 times

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:02 am
by Torquemada 1420
Un Pilier wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:46 pm
Raggs wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:29 pm
GogLais wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:24 pm

If that’s the law then so be it although it begs the question why isn’t there more jumping over tackles if it’s legit.
You're not allowed to be reckless or dangerous, and that's where you get the difference between a dive and a jump for me, a jump is going to leave legs leading, and shins and knees flying into heads, ready to land back on your feet, and clearly very dangerous, a dive has the aim of landing on your body/hands etc, which is what May was doing, albeit in acrobatic manner.
That’s a reasonable distinction imo.
It seems so i.e. if player upright, then dangerous and if horizontal then let it pass. However, that does beg the question as to what happens if a committed defender takes the player out? Are we saying that once a player is in the air in that position, he is immune from tackle? Because that opens a can of worms.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:04 am
by Insane_Homer
Grandpa wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:57 am
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:40 am
I did, and if you watch, the first contact comes whilst May is still on the ground. I'll admit it's bloody close, but it's true, which rather stops the "He jumped into the tackle." The picture you showed isn't the start is it...

I froze the video at the point of first contact... May appears to be airborne?


First Contact.png
and he starts the jump before the tackler gets to him.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:04 am
by Raggs
Grandpa wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:57 am
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:40 am
I did, and if you watch, the first contact comes whilst May is still on the ground. I'll admit it's bloody close, but it's true, which rather stops the "He jumped into the tackle." The picture you showed isn't the start is it...

I froze the video at the point of first contact... May appears to be airborne?


First Contact.png
Frame earlier the hand is still on his hip and May's foot is on the ground (may be 2 frames etc).

IH, if you think that law is explicit (you do know the definition of explicit right?), and May's actions were more dangerous for the tackler than even him simply running, then I give up, we're never going to agree.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:06 am
by Torquemada 1420
Niegs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:51 am
Even this is a nightmare to differentiate. How high is too high to clear a tackler? Tap tackles anyone?

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:27 am
by Insane_Homer
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:04 am IH, if you think that law is explicit (you do know the definition of explicit right?), and May's actions were more dangerous for the tackler than even him simply running, then I give up, we're never going to agree.
It's dangerous to both players, (you've already argued it's dangerous coz rugby is dangerous game!)

There's a law preventing players from tackling players who are in the air. This would result in the ludicrous scenario where a player could deliberately jump into any tackle situation to draw a penalty and or card for then being tacked in the air.

There will be a clarification by a change in laws wording, add to it or IRB will issue a clarifying statement that jumping into or jumping to avoid a tackle is explicitly dangerous and cuntish thing to do.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am
by JM2K6
I must admit I find it quite odd that we're having this discussion now, and not any of the other many, many times a player has leapt into the air to avoid being tackled and score a try.

IMO it's because May leaps more vertically than horizontally.

Or it's anti-English sentiment ;)

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:40 am
by laurent
The Jump can be dangerous play for either players.

We had (in our very short season) an opposition player jump a tackle and our backrow unable to control the tackle a s a result.
- it ended up with a red against us for tip tackle.
- Player leaving the pitch injured.

I thought that the may try should have been disallowed as his action are jumping/ hurdling rather than dive.

A fairly good twitter ref account (French ref or ref group) challenged Owen's interpretation as there is no written law. Apparently there was a directive but these are not in Law books.

The ref has to assess dangerous play in this case which is making this a Russian roulette.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:49 am
by Insane_Homer
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am the other many, many times a player has leapt into the air to avoid being tackled and score a try.
Really? I'd argue it's a very rare event, so rare, that up to this point it's not required a law to define it.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:52 am
by JM2K6
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:49 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am the other many, many times a player has leapt into the air to avoid being tackled and score a try.
Really? I'd argue it's a very rare event, so rare, that up to this point it's not required a law to define it.
Spectacular airborne tackle-evading one-handed finishes are individually rare enough to be noteworthy and common enough that we see them fairly regularly each season. You see them more in rugby league, but we've learned the trick now.

Honestly, I do think that the *only* reason this one is being complained about is because he jumps more vertically - like a hurdle - than horizontally.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:03 am
by Insane_Homer
DANGEROUS PLAY

17. A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
If it's considered dangerous to tackle a player who is in the air, then a player tackling a jumping player must to be dangerous by the same definition?

So to avoid it being dangerous, the jump must avoid the tackle completely...but if the tackler succeeds then the tackler should be penalised for dangerous play...

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:06 am
by JM2K6
This is an example (from rugby league) of the sort of finish we've started seeing more often in union. Happens a *lot* in RL, but is rarer - as in we see it a handful of times a season - in union

Image

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:07 am
by JM2K6
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:03 am
DANGEROUS PLAY

17. A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
If it's considered dangerous to tackle a player who is in the air, then a player tackling a jumping player must to be dangerous by the same definition?

So to avoid it being dangerous, the jump mush avoid the tackle completely...but if the tackler succeeds then the tackler should be penalised for dangerous play...
I know you're not new to how weirdly circular and occasionally self-defeating rugby's laws can be!

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:17 am
by Torquemada 1420
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am I must admit I find it quite odd that we're having this discussion now, and not any of the other many, many times a player has leapt into the air to avoid being tackled and score a try.

IMO it's because May leaps more vertically than horizontally.

Or it's anti-English sentiment ;)
Now you c'mon. It's not all about England always you know. This board has only been around a short time and we probably would not have discussed it were it not for Owens' comment.

Personally, I find myself compromised on the issue. I want it to be permitted because it's hugely entertaining but the more I think about it, the more inconsistent it is with other Laws.

You only ever see this (aside from fwds occasionally trying to salmon leap over a ruck near the tryline) when the dot down is in the corner. So clearly players only do this in order to prevent going into touch. Ergo, normally it's not considered the most effective way to score? But if you are not allowed to be tackled, why not always launch yourself into the air once within 2m of the tryline wherever?

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:20 am
by JM2K6
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:17 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am I must admit I find it quite odd that we're having this discussion now, and not any of the other many, many times a player has leapt into the air to avoid being tackled and score a try.

IMO it's because May leaps more vertically than horizontally.

Or it's anti-English sentiment ;)
Now you c'mon. It's not all about England always you know. This board has only been around a short time and we probably would not have discussed it were it not for Owens' comment.
Literally could not have made it any more obvious that that line was a joke.
Personally, I find myself compromised on the issue. I want it to be permitted because it's hugely entertaining but the more I think about it, the more inconsistent it is with other Laws.

You only ever see this (aside from fwds occasionally trying to salmon leap over a ruck near the tryline) when the dot down is in the corner. So clearly players only do this in order to prevent going into touch. Ergo, normally it's not considered the most effective way to score? But if you are not allowed to be tackled, why not always launch yourself into the air once within 2m of the tryline wherever?
Because it's a difficult skill and easy to fuck up.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:22 am
by SaintK
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:06 am This is an example (from rugby league) of the sort of finish we've started seeing more often in union. Happens a *lot* in RL, but is rarer - as in we see it a handful of times a season - in union

Image
Seen Denny Solomona score a few of those for Sale.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:32 am
by Slick
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am I must admit I find it quite odd that we're having this discussion now, and not any of the other many, many times a player has leapt into the air to avoid being tackled and score a try.

IMO it's because May leaps more vertically than horizontally.

Or it's anti-English sentiment ;)
Well, yes, that's exactly why it is being talked about. I didn't like it but can also see why a ref would let it go. It started out as almost a hurdle which shouldn't be allowed.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am
by Torquemada 1420
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:20 am Because it's a difficult skill and easy to fuck up.
Not buying that. The premium from being immune from tackled would make it the go to option over sliding in.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:49 am
by JM2K6
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:20 am Because it's a difficult skill and easy to fuck up.
Not buying that. The premium from being immune from tackled would make it the go to option over sliding in.
For it to work these things have to be true:

1) There must be a benefit to doing a salmon leap rather than any other attempt (the touchline is a big factor here)
2) There must be space to land
3) The player must be athletic enough to perform this
4) The player must be confident of their ability to place the ball while doing this

Now, I've seen a few salmon leaps over tryline rucks, but the situation is really quite different. Players scoring in the corner are usually:

1) Backs
2) running at pace
3) Diving over a tackle coming from the side
4) Aiming for clear grass with no other bodies in the way

It's a very different scenario, which is why we don't see it very often at all except in a specific set of circumstances.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:00 pm
by boere wors
Enzedder wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:18 am [Insert Welsh Accent]
You cannot dive here sonny. This is not soccer.

[/end Welsh accent]
:lol:

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:13 pm
by Insane_Homer
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:49 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:20 am Because it's a difficult skill and easy to fuck up.
Not buying that. The premium from being immune from tackled would make it the go to option over sliding in.
For it to work these things have to be true:
Spoiler
Show
1) There must be a benefit to doing a salmon leap rather than any other attempt (the touchline is a big factor here)
2) There must be space to land
3) The player must be athletic enough to perform this
4) The player must be confident of their ability to place the ball while doing this

Now, I've seen a few salmon leaps over tryline rucks, but the situation is really quite different. Players scoring in the corner are usually:

1) Backs
2) running at pace
3) Diving over a tackle coming from the side
4) Aiming for clear grass with no other bodies in the way

It's a very different scenario, which is why we don't see it very often at all except in a specific set of circumstances.
and if you do fuck it up, and get tackled in the air, and don't score, the ref just awards a pen try and send the other guy off, win/win! :wink:

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:15 pm
by Openside
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:23 am
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:55 am
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:15 am Ok. Now where's there law that says he can't?
DANGEROUS PLAY
Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.
Right. So it doesn't say you can't jump.

The tackle started whilst May was still on the ground. The tackler was not in danger. Especially compared to a different scenario of a winger simply running full pelt into the defender (check out the Lowe carry in the France game where he smashes the defender).
In which case he jumped the tackler.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 pm
by Openside
What there seems to be creeping into the game is players jumping to take a pass there is no real need to jump to collect and then the tackler is penalised. I am beginning to think that only a tackler defending a high ball should be able to jump players running forward jumping are unbalanced and prone to landing on people legitimately running to catch the ball.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:21 pm
by JM2K6
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:13 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:49 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am
Not buying that. The premium from being immune from tackled would make it the go to option over sliding in.
For it to work these things have to be true:
Spoiler
Show
1) There must be a benefit to doing a salmon leap rather than any other attempt (the touchline is a big factor here)
2) There must be space to land
3) The player must be athletic enough to perform this
4) The player must be confident of their ability to place the ball while doing this

Now, I've seen a few salmon leaps over tryline rucks, but the situation is really quite different. Players scoring in the corner are usually:

1) Backs
2) running at pace
3) Diving over a tackle coming from the side
4) Aiming for clear grass with no other bodies in the way

It's a very different scenario, which is why we don't see it very often at all except in a specific set of circumstances.
and if you do fuck it up, and get tackled in the air, and don't score, the ref just awards a pen try and send the other guy off, win/win! :wink:
When's that ever happened?

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:35 pm
by boere wors
The italian tries to tackle him low, May jumps high to avoid. In doing so, his boots are now in the face of the italian, making contact or not. Either way, that is exactly what is meant by dangerous play, thus it should have been a penalty against May.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:39 pm
by Torquemada 1420
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:49 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:20 am Because it's a difficult skill and easy to fuck up.
Not buying that. The premium from being immune from tackled would make it the go to option over sliding in.
For it to work these things have to be true:

1) There must be a benefit to doing a salmon leap rather than any other attempt (the touchline is a big factor here)
2) There must be space to land
3) The player must be athletic enough to perform this
4) The player must be confident of their ability to place the ball while doing this

Now, I've seen a few salmon leaps over tryline rucks, but the situation is really quite different. Players scoring in the corner are usually:

1) Backs
2) running at pace
3) Diving over a tackle coming from the side
4) Aiming for clear grass with no other bodies in the way

It's a very different scenario, which is why we don't see it very often at all except in a specific set of circumstances.
You may be right but is it possible players just hadn't considered the "immunity" implications of doing it further infield?

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:42 pm
by JM2K6
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:39 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:49 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am
Not buying that. The premium from being immune from tackled would make it the go to option over sliding in.
For it to work these things have to be true:

1) There must be a benefit to doing a salmon leap rather than any other attempt (the touchline is a big factor here)
2) There must be space to land
3) The player must be athletic enough to perform this
4) The player must be confident of their ability to place the ball while doing this

Now, I've seen a few salmon leaps over tryline rucks, but the situation is really quite different. Players scoring in the corner are usually:

1) Backs
2) running at pace
3) Diving over a tackle coming from the side
4) Aiming for clear grass with no other bodies in the way

It's a very different scenario, which is why we don't see it very often at all except in a specific set of circumstances.
You may be right but is it possible players just hadn't considered the "immunity" implications of doing it further infield?
Immunity isn't the reason they do it out wide. It's to avoid going into touch. The immunity is part of that, sure, but it's not that players are going "If I jump here, he's not allowed to tackle me" - players are still attempting tackles, after all. It's just that nowhere else on the pitch is being airborne such a factor.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:52 pm
by Dinsdale Piranha
It's clear to me that May jumps the tackle and his feet end up very close to the head of the defender as a result.

[media]][/media]

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:52 pm
by Torquemada 1420
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:42 pm
Immunity isn't the reason they do it out wide. It's to avoid going into touch. The immunity is part of that, sure, but it's not that players are going "If I jump here, he's not allowed to tackle me" - players are still attempting tackles, after all. It's just that nowhere else on the pitch is being airborne such a factor.
Yes. I know as I commented earlier. It's just that the implication here is clear i.e. if you are not allowed to attempt to tackle a player who is airborne (horizontal) whilst attempting to dot down, then as a coach, I'd be telling every back (fwds probably physically incapable) of doing just that. Even 2 defenders versus 1 attacker become powerless.

And that brings us around to the defenders attempting a tackle: how is is possible to do this legally?
a) A player in the air is sacrosanct now
b) And even if not, try wrapping arms in that scenario

The fact that no-one agrees here indicates it's another of rugby's self inflicted messes.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:59 pm
by Insane_Homer
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:21 pm
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:13 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:49 am

For it to work these things have to be true:
Spoiler
Show
1) There must be a benefit to doing a salmon leap rather than any other attempt (the touchline is a big factor here)
2) There must be space to land
3) The player must be athletic enough to perform this
4) The player must be confident of their ability to place the ball while doing this

Now, I've seen a few salmon leaps over tryline rucks, but the situation is really quite different. Players scoring in the corner are usually:

1) Backs
2) running at pace
3) Diving over a tackle coming from the side
4) Aiming for clear grass with no other bodies in the way

It's a very different scenario, which is why we don't see it very often at all except in a specific set of circumstances.
and if you do fuck it up, and get tackled in the air, and don't score, the ref just awards a pen try and send the other guy off, win/win! :wink:
When's that ever happened?
It could've happened to May here, had there been enough contact to get him into touch, drop the ball or land on his head.

It's written in the Law - right there in black & white, it's very clear.

1. A tackle of a player in the air is dangerous, foul play.
2. Foul play that prevents a try being scored is a pen try and yellow card.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:10 pm
by JM2K6
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:59 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:21 pm
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:13 pm

and if you do fuck it up, and get tackled in the air, and don't score, the ref just awards a pen try and send the other guy off, win/win! :wink:
When's that ever happened?
It could've happened to May here, had there been enough contact to get him into touch, drop the ball or land on his head.

It's written in the Law - right there in black & white, it's very clear.

1. A tackle of a player in the air is dangerous, foul play.
2. Foul play that prevents a try being scored is a pen try and yellow card.
So... is the answer never?

Clearly the players don't think it's illegal to attempt to tackle someone in the air when they're trying to score. I've never seen a player penalised for it. Is this an invented problem? Perhaps it's the understanding that tackles in the air lead to players being tipped that's the issue here - and players diving for the line are tipping themselves.

Anyway, I'm happy to park this until the point a player gets penalised for tackling someone who's trying to score while airborne. Until then I don't think we actually have a problem.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:22 pm
by Insane_Homer
17 A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
If you really want to fuck it up, most tackles are speedsters will be a 50/50 "tackle in the air" foul play. When at full flight both feat are off the ground.

Can of worms opened...

Image

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:27 pm
by boere wors
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:22 pm
17 A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
If you really want to fuck it up, most tackles are speedsters will be a 50/50 "tackle in the air" foul play. When at full flight both feat are off the ground.

Can of worms opened...

Image
Nah come on, some common sense has to be allowed.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:29 pm
by Insane_Homer
boere wors wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:27 pm Nah come on, some common sense has to be allowed.
Like saying jumping to avoid a tackle is dangerous?

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:30 pm
by boere wors
Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:52 pm It's clear to me that May jumps the tackle and his feet end up very close to the head of the defender as a result.

[media]][/media]
Exactly. It is clearly a jump to avoid the tackle, not a dive for the line. Which is considered to be dangerous play. As other fotos show, his boots are in the italians face.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:34 pm
by boere wors
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:29 pm
boere wors wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:27 pm Nah come on, some common sense has to be allowed.
Like saying jumping to avoid a tackle is dangerous?
No, but one could add "except when a player is running or diving for the line" to make it clear. But is that necessary, i think it is clear which cases are meant by "whose feet are of the ground"

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:44 pm
by Insane_Homer
A decent selection and array of dives and jumps


Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:00 pm
by Lobby
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:44 pm A decent selection and array of dives and jumps

A fair few of those, including two by Welsh players, are not that different to May’s try. As I assume none of those were disallowed for ‘jumping’, I can’t see why his effort has been singled out as being especially egregious.

Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:01 pm
by Torquemada 1420
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:10 pm So... is the answer never?

Clearly the players don't think it's illegal to attempt to tackle someone in the air when they're trying to score. I've never seen a player penalised for it. Is this an invented problem? Perhaps it's the understanding that tackles in the air lead to players being tipped that's the issue here - and players diving for the line are tipping themselves.

Anyway, I'm happy to park this until the point a player gets penalised for tackling someone who's trying to score while airborne. Until then I don't think we actually have a problem.
You tell me. I don't know and suspect it's now one of those areas where what you get from refs will vary widely
- May scoring at Twickers in game against minnow where the effort won't affect the outcome: all refs will let it stand
- May scoring at Eden Park in last minute of RWC final v the ABs to push Eng into the lead: good luck

Actually, I have seen a player penalised for it and was trying to think what the incident was before quoting it. Player was in the air and was taken out by the tackler and pen try was awarded and tackler yellowed for no arms. Defo involved a Fre side but cannot recall if intl, HEC or T14 (pretty sure it wasn't T14). Will probably come to me in my sleep.