NPR

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:47 am The only change I'd be inclined to make to the starting lineout is Marco in for Kwagga.

But the bench definitely needs a rethink. Both Jantjies didn't do anything wrong when they came on, but they don't really fill me with confidence especially when you see the quality of the Lions bench. Elton vs Owen is a total mismatch. But if we change the players we also need to change the way they're managed. Our front row on Saturday deserved another 10 minutes; call me old fashioned but I'm a fan of the 50 minute change otherwise momentum can be lost at halftime.

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 am

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:40 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:53 am Maybe we should try passing the ball instead of just selecting a different player to chase and catch endless kicks?

Okay Alistair Coetzee

Coetzee abandoned it quickly. You are thinking about moneybags

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:59 am I'd give Willemse the benefit of the doubt.

I think his attitude in his bench appearances has been good. He just needs to translate it into a full game.

Although I still think we need to consider Nkosi. If Kolbe is having a bad day under the high ball, then we need to counter it and Nkosi is excellent under the high ball.

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:47 am The only change I'd be inclined to make to the starting lineout is Marco in for Kwagga.

But the bench definitely needs a rethink. Both Jantjies didn't do anything wrong when they came on, but they don't really fill me with confidence especially when you see the quality of the Lions bench. Elton vs Owen is a total mismatch. But if we change the players we also need to change the way they're managed. Our front row on Saturday deserved another 10 minutes; call me old fashioned but I'm a fan of the 50 minute change otherwise momentum can be lost at halftime.

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:25 am If you bring in Marco for kwagga, Kolisi will have to shift to 8, Marco to 6. Just like when Elstadt came on, Kolisi played 8. Nevertheless, it is not his position, he never plays there. Hence we wont have a specialist 8 on the field. I dont know if Rassie will take that risk. We will rather see Wiese at 8. And he hasnt really excelled there in the two preparation games he had. On the banch, as elstadt is our only utility forward who can cover lock and backrow, he will feature again most likely. JLdP was sent home. Lood will cover lock, but should better be starting imho until he is done and Mostert come on. Cobus for Herschel and who would you want over Jantjies? Morne?

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:25 am

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:47 am The only change I'd be inclined to make to the starting lineout is Marco in for Kwagga.

But the bench definitely needs a rethink. Both Jantjies didn't do anything wrong when they came on, but they don't really fill me with confidence especially when you see the quality of the Lions bench. Elton vs Owen is a total mismatch. But if we change the players we also need to change the way they're managed. Our front row on Saturday deserved another 10 minutes; call me old fashioned but I'm a fan of the 50 minute change otherwise momentum can be lost at halftime.

If you bring in Marco for kwagga, Kolisi will have to shift to 8, Marco to 6. Just like when Elstadt came on, Kolisi played 8. Nevertheless, it is not his position, he never plays there. Hence we wont have a specialist 8 on the field. I dont know if Rassie will take that risk. We will rather see Wiese at 8. And he hasnt really excelled there in the two preparation games he had. On the banch, as elstadt is our only utility forward who can cover lock and backrow, he will feature again most likely. JLdP was sent home. Lood will cover lock, but should better be starting imho until he is done and Mostert come on. Cobus for Herschel and who would you want over Jantjies? Morne?

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am

Why is everybody suddenly gunning or Herschel Jantjies?
Which monumental fuck-up did I miss on Saturday that he was responsible for?

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am Why is everybody suddenly gunning or Herschel Jantjies?
Which monumental fuck-up did I miss on Saturday that he was responsible for?

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:52 am

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am

Why is everybody suddenly gunning or Herschel Jantjies?
Which monumental fuck-up did I miss on Saturday that he was responsible for?

No fuck up or anything, he is just out of form, has been all season and in the preparation matches. Cobus is playing well, he is fit, and if we need someone to come on and create something and bring in pace and energy, it is him at the moment.

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:37 am Yeah, outstanding season from him, unfortunately it is Kolisi he competes with for the 6 jersey

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:47 am

I'd start Marco at 8. He's played there before and I'd leave Kolisi to focus on his natural position and captaincy.

I still think it's crazy we let the du Preez brothers go. I'm sure Rassie had his reasons, but both have been playing well in jerseys 4-8 for Sale and would have been great to bring on off the bench.

I'd pick Morne over Elton, but neither inspire me to be honest off the bench. I wonder if we let 5Bar cover 10 as well and then bring in Fassi to cover the back three. Will have to go for a 5-3 bench in that case.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:04 am

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:37 am Yeah, outstanding season from him, unfortunately it is Kolisi he competes with for the 6 jersey

Kolisi has never been a 6. He can play 8.

I am with Blake on Herschel. His rush defense have been close to Faf .

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:56 am

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am Why is everybody suddenly gunning or Herschel Jantjies?
Which monumental fuck-up did I miss on Saturday that he was responsible for?

See my original quote. I said he didn't do anything wrong, and it's unfair that he's given so little time on the field to effect a change.

But in my opinion I haven't recently seen any of his promising form from 2018-2019 that shows he can bring a real spark to the bench, which is what we really need.

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:59 am

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:52 am

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am

Why is everybody suddenly gunning or Herschel Jantjies?
Which monumental fuck-up did I miss on Saturday that he was responsible for?

No fuck up or anything, he is just out of form, has been all season and in the preparation matches. Cobus is playing well, he is fit, and if we need someone to come on and create something and bring in pace and energy, it is him at the moment.

I'm trying to figure out what "out of form" means in this context. Was his service slow? Inaccurate? Did he make unforced errors? Was he out of position? Miss tackles?
What exactly would constitute "being in form" again for Jantjies? Or is anything short of scoring match-winning tries now considered being out of form?

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:10 am

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:56 am

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am Why is everybody suddenly gunning or Herschel Jantjies?
Which monumental fuck-up did I miss on Saturday that he was responsible for?

See my original quote. I said he didn't do anything wrong, and it's unfair that he's given so little time on the field to effect a change.

But in my opinion I haven't recently seen any of his promising form from 2018-2019 that shows he can bring a real spark to the bench, which is what we really need.

The comment wasn't directed at you specifically, but just for calls to axe him in general. There have been a lot of posters that think replacing him with Reinach will somehow automagically fix the problem.

Our gameplan needs momentum to succeed. When we start going backwards because we lose aerial battels over and over again, no bomb squad forward pack, or scrumhalf or flyhalf change is going to change anything.
You need your 8, 11, 14 and 15 to be solid under the high ball. That's it. It's really that simple.

You take that ball cleanly in Zone 2, secure it, kick a contestable kick into Zone 3 create havoc in the air by competing and on the ground by going for a poach or a strong counter ruck, and then you can take some chances out wide. Best case scenario you create a try, worst case you get a kickable penalty or a scrum which could result in a kickable penalty.

In the first half we got it right and were up halftime and the Lions looked battered. In the second we couldn't get step 1 right and it all went to shit. What this test has done is illustrate how critical that piece of our game is. Expect every team we play going forward to target us there.

handyman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:21 am My only question about Van Staden/Kolisi at 8 is, can they been relied upon to get the ball out of a retreating scrum?

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:28 am

handyman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:21 am My only question about Van Staden/Kolisi at 8 is, can they been relied upon to get the ball out of a retreating scrum?

In the first half I really think we let the Lions off the hook. I feel that we had the upper hand, and whereas in the RWC final we secured the ball at the back and then squeezed for the second shove, on Saturday Faf either kicked or passed.

So hopefully a retreating scrum won't be a problem in the 2nd test.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:49 am Yeah the Saffer starting front row got the most they could out of things - they were all over the place and destabilising it, not winning the contest. More like an opportunity gained rather than one lost.

I can see why people are calling for Reinach but surely he's best if SA are planning on ever running the ball, right?

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:28 am

handyman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:21 am My only question about Van Staden/Kolisi at 8 is, can they been relied upon to get the ball out of a retreating scrum?

In the first half I really think we let the Lions off the hook. I feel that we had the upper hand, and whereas in the RWC final we secured the ball at the back and then squeezed for the second shove, on Saturday Faf either kicked or passed.

So hopefully a retreating scrum won't be a problem in the 2nd test.

Begbie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:11 am Wyn Jones is doubtful for Saturday. Biggar will be back training on Thursday and Russell is in contention for a place.

Ox Nche made more metres than Marx, Kitschoff and Malherbe combined

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:11 am

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 am

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:40 am

Okay Alistair Coetzee

Coetzee abandoned it quickly. You are thinking about moneybags

Well he got shitcanned because it didn't work, but sure, let's say he "abandoned" it. Let me ask you then, should we take up that idiotic strategy again, what has changed to make you and Sandy think that the outcome would be different this time around?

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:23 am

Ox Nche made more metres than Marx, Kitschoff and Malherbe combined

Interesting...

Springbok assistant coach Deon Davids says continuity in selection will be an important consideration this week, but has not ruled out the possibility of a couple of tactical team changes. CRAIG LEWIS reports.

Following the Boks’ defeat to the British & Irish Lions on Saturday, plenty of attention will inevitably shift to this week’s team announcement, and whether the national coaches consider a couple of changes.

As it stands, the Springbok squad announcement is scheduled for Wednesday, although last week the team release ended up being moved to a day earlier.

After another opportunity for players to bank some valuable game-time this past Saturday, a case could be made for the Boks to return to a six-two forwards-to-backs split on the bench, particularly considering the hosts didn’t have it all their own way in the forward exchanges in the first Test.

This could potentially open the door for someone like Jasper Wiese to come onto the bench, or possibly for him to start at No 8, with Kwagga Smith then providing an impact option as a super sub.

It will also be interesting to see whether the Boks stick with the same starting front row, or indeed persist with the similar ploy of making a full front-row change around the halfway mark.

Many onlookers questioned why Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi and Trevor Nyakane were all replaced at the break after impressing in the first half on Saturday, but Davids explained that there were extenuating circumstances – and not just tactics – that influenced that decision.

“I think we actually have to say congrats to Ox, Bongi and Trevor, they were exceptional in the first half. But we did have a few injury niggles at half time, Ox had a neck injury, Bongi had a hamstring complaint.

“There were all those things in mind and so the coaching staff decided the best thing in that situation was to change the front row at half-time. Those players also really emptied the tank in the first half, and although they would have liked to continue, circumstances led to that decision, and so I think it was the correct one in that context.”

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:47 am

Springbok assistant coach Deon Davids says continuity in selection will be an important consideration this week, but has not ruled out the possibility of a couple of tactical team changes. CRAIG LEWIS reports.

Following the Boks’ defeat to the British & Irish Lions on Saturday, plenty of attention will inevitably shift to this week’s team announcement, and whether the national coaches consider a couple of changes.

As it stands, the Springbok squad announcement is scheduled for Wednesday, although last week the team release ended up being moved to a day earlier.

After another opportunity for players to bank some valuable game-time this past Saturday, a case could be made for the Boks to return to a six-two forwards-to-backs split on the bench, particularly considering the hosts didn’t have it all their own way in the forward exchanges in the first Test.

This could potentially open the door for someone like Jasper Wiese to come onto the bench, or possibly for him to start at No 8, with Kwagga Smith then providing an impact option as a super sub.

It will also be interesting to see whether the Boks stick with the same starting front row, or indeed persist with the similar ploy of making a full front-row change around the halfway mark.

Many onlookers questioned why Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi and Trevor Nyakane were all replaced at the break after impressing in the first half on Saturday, but Davids explained that there were extenuating circumstances – and not just tactics – that influenced that decision.

“I think we actually have to say congrats to Ox, Bongi and Trevor, they were exceptional in the first half. But we did have a few injury niggles at half time, Ox had a neck injury, Bongi had a hamstring complaint.

“There were all those things in mind and so the coaching staff decided the best thing in that situation was to change the front row at half-time. Those players also really emptied the tank in the first half, and although they would have liked to continue, circumstances led to that decision, and so I think it was the correct one in that context.”

I think he is fibbing.....that was planned well in advance....

I still remember the excitement from our Saffer posters thinking that now the BILs had been softened up , the First team was going to come on and destroy the BILs.....Some even suggested a 3 nil whitewash.......and then Ginger got his first touch of the ball and bellyflopped right there . On the spot. The ground shook and the pidgeons took flight from the roof of the stadium....Some thought that the midday gun had sounded.....and checked their watches....Snoek fishermen hung tight to the gunwhales off Robben Island as the shock wave caused their boats to rock...a million miles away a tsunami rocked the shores of a deserted island and Godzilla raised an eyebrow from his position of slumber

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:47 am

“I think we actually have to say congrats to Ox, Bongi and Trevor, they were exceptional in the first half. But we did have a few injury niggles at half time, Ox had a neck injury, Bongi had a hamstring complaint.

I think he is fibbing.....that was planned well in advance....

I still remember the excitement from our Saffer posters thinking that now the BILs had been softened up , the First team was going to come on and destroy the BILs.....Some even suggested a 3 nil whitewash.......and then Ginger got his first touch of the ball and bellyflopped right there . On the spot. The ground shook and the pidgeons took flight from the roof of the stadium....Some thought that the midday gun had sounded.....and checked their watches....Snoek fishermen hung tight to the gunwhales off Robben Island as the shock wave caused their boats to rock...a million miles away a tsunami rocked the shores of a deserted island and Godzilla raised an eyebrow from his position of slumber

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:47 am

Springbok assistant coach Deon Davids says continuity in selection will be an important consideration this week, but has not ruled out the possibility of a couple of tactical team changes. CRAIG LEWIS reports.

Following the Boks’ defeat to the British & Irish Lions on Saturday, plenty of attention will inevitably shift to this week’s team announcement, and whether the national coaches consider a couple of changes.

As it stands, the Springbok squad announcement is scheduled for Wednesday, although last week the team release ended up being moved to a day earlier.

After another opportunity for players to bank some valuable game-time this past Saturday, a case could be made for the Boks to return to a six-two forwards-to-backs split on the bench, particularly considering the hosts didn’t have it all their own way in the forward exchanges in the first Test.

This could potentially open the door for someone like Jasper Wiese to come onto the bench, or possibly for him to start at No 8, with Kwagga Smith then providing an impact option as a super sub.

It will also be interesting to see whether the Boks stick with the same starting front row, or indeed persist with the similar ploy of making a full front-row change around the halfway mark.

Many onlookers questioned why Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi and Trevor Nyakane were all replaced at the break after impressing in the first half on Saturday, but Davids explained that there were extenuating circumstances – and not just tactics – that influenced that decision.

“I think we actually have to say congrats to Ox, Bongi and Trevor, they were exceptional in the first half. But we did have a few injury niggles at half time, Ox had a neck injury, Bongi had a hamstring complaint.

“There were all those things in mind and so the coaching staff decided the best thing in that situation was to change the front row at half-time. Those players also really emptied the tank in the first half, and although they would have liked to continue, circumstances led to that decision, and so I think it was the correct one in that context.”

I think he is fibbing.....that was planned well in advance....

I still remember the excitement from our Saffer posters thinking that now the BILs had been softened up , the First team was going to come on and destroy the BILs.....Some even suggested a 3 nil whitewash.......and then Ginger got his first touch of the ball and bellyflopped right there . On the spot. The ground shook and the pidgeons took flight from the roof of the stadium....Some thought that the midday gun had sounded.....and checked their watches....Snoek fishermen hung tight to the gunwhales off Robben Island as the shock wave caused their boats to rock...a million miles away a tsunami rocked the shores of a deserted island and Godzilla raised an eyebrow from his position of slumber

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:22 am What do you think we should do to improve that aspect? Let the guys that were playing on saturday catch high balls the whole week? Change of personell?
Winning the aerial battle is one aspect, more importantly we will need to win the collisions, breakdown, maul and scrum. Thats were it went wrong in the 2nd half. This will give us momentum.

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:54 pm We definitely have to practice high ball catches as well as recovery and reset plays from failed high ball contests in defense. I think we were caught a little off guard when the Lions went there. For Wales in 2019 we were prepared as we expected kicking game from them, but for the Lions I think we expected them to try and go wide, not high. We did well enough fielding the kicks in the first half and that put them under pressure, especially when we returned. I didn't expect it to start going so badly in the second.

I'd honestly stick with the same team and same gameplan as much as possible, and just focus on execution, workrate/fitness and intensity.
If we do that and get that right, the rest will fall into place.

Willie's injury might force our hand - if injured I'd start with Willemse at 15.
Other than that I'd drop Elstadt and Kwagga, start with a Kolisi, PSdT, Wiese loose trio and go for a 6-2 bench:
Ginger, Marx, Maherbe, Lood, NJvR, Van Staden, H Jantjies and Frans Steyn.

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:43 pm

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:54 pm We definitely have to practice high ball catches as well as recovery and reset plays from failed high ball contests in defense. I think we were caught a little off guard when the Lions went there. For Wales in 2019 we were prepared as we expected kicking game from them, but for the Lions I think we expected them to try and go wide, not high. We did well enough fielding the kicks in the first half and that put them under pressure, especially when we returned. I didn't expect it to start going so badly in the second.

I'd honestly stick with the same team and same gameplan as much as possible, and just focus on execution, workrate/fitness and intensity.
If we do that and get that right, the rest will fall into place.

Willie's injury might force our hand - if injured I'd start with Willemse at 15.
Other than that I'd drop Elstadt and Kwagga, start with a Kolisi, PSdT, Wiese loose trio and go for a 6-2 bench:
Ginger, Marx, Maherbe, Lood, NJvR, Van Staden, H Jantjies and Frans Steyn.

Reasonable advice. And a 6/2 bench would be a good asset, depends on the fitness of the backline starters, lets see if it comes. Van Staden/Wiese/NJvR for kwagga/Elstadt/Elton is great, but somehow I expect we will see the same starting line up as on saturday

sorCrer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:57 pm

boere wors wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:43 pm
Reasonable advice. And a 6/2 bench would be a good asset, depends on the fitness of the backline starters, lets see if it comes. Van Staden/Wiese/NJvR for kwagga/Elstadt/Elton is great, but somehow I expect we will see the same starting line up as on saturday

Dan is dit broek besoedling tyd.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:07 pm Frans Steyn? That fat cunt who can’t break 13 secs for 100m ever again? Gaan kak.

sorCrer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:13 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:07 pm Frans Steyn? That fat cunt who can’t break 13 secs for 100m ever again? Gaan kak.

Frans looks about 5 kaks behind at the moment.