NPR

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:16 pm Irish Health Authorities have donated the the source code of the Irish tracing app to the Linux Foundation public health initiative, so that other countries may use it to build their own apps.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4308955

It might help the Brits get on with developing their own app.

How many downloads now? And how many does it need?

About 1.25m. Very good figures without being perfect. That's 25% of the population and well over 50% of those both eligible and able to download it, I think.

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:25 pm About 1.25m. Very good figures without being perfect. That's 25% of the population and well over 50% of those both eligible and able to download it, I think.

IT story says more than 1.3m downloads.

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:21 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:25 pm About 1.25m. Very good figures without being perfect. That's 25% of the population and well over 50% of those both eligible and able to download it, I think.

IT story says more than 1.3m downloads.

Was guesstimating off the graph on the app.

1,371,058 have downloaded the app

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:16 pm Irish Health Authorities have donated the the source code of the Irish tracing app to the Linux Foundation public health initiative, so that other countries may use it to build their own apps.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4308955

It might help the Brits get on with developing their own app.

The Brits have developed one, however the Bluetooth on Apple phones doesn't give an accurate distance, so it's been put on the back burner. The UK wants a centralised version, not the decentralised offered by Apple and Google
As far as I'm aware the Irish app has not overcome the issue with Apple phones has it?

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:14 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:16 pm Irish Health Authorities have donated the the source code of the Irish tracing app to the Linux Foundation public health initiative, so that other countries may use it to build their own apps.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/hea ... -1.4308955

It might help the Brits get on with developing their own app.

The Brits have developed one, however the Bluetooth on Apple phones doesn't give an accurate distance, so it's been put on the back burner. The UK wants a centralised version, not the decentralised offered by Apple and Google
As far as I'm aware the Irish app has not overcome the issue with Apple phones has it?

Have a read yourself.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tec ... -1.4303509

Just had a quick scan and it's still not perfect in working out distance, but better than the current UK version. There still seems to be a determination to create a centralised app, but I suspect that we will go G&A too.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:40 pm Just had a quick scan and it's still not perfect in working out distance, but better than the current UK version. There still seems to be a determination to create a centralised app, but I suspect that we will go G&A too.

Apple isn't going to open up the new API hooks they've added to a 3rd party, to enable a 3rd Party app to control bluetooth. Apple have struggled for years with battery life compared to Android, & I think they made their numbers look more respectable, by controlling stuff like this at the lowest possible level. The UK App seems to want to leave BT on for prolonged periods to sample, so they can get very accurate distance values, if iOS does this, its battery life sucks.

The compromise is that if the contract tracing is efficient, it isn't as critical that the distance estimates aren't as accurate; as you'll just end up with more false positives, & that's better than nothing.

The other more important requirement is to have the application widely installed; as then you cover for the lack of accuracy; because you have more phones in your local Aldi with the app installed; so that if someone there is found to be infected; instead of 2x iphones, & 10x android phones; you have 5x iphones, & 20x android phones; so who gives a shit if the iphone couldn't tell if you were 3m or 5m away from away.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:40 pm Just had a quick scan and it's still not perfect in working out distance, but better than the current UK version. There still seems to be a determination to create a centralised app, but I suspect that we will go G&A too.

I suspect that we ultimately won't bother. Unless we see a country manage to hit 60% + downloads, it probably isn't actually worth the effort and investing in people is likely more effective

Edit - bear in mind it looks like we might struggle to get people to just wear a fucking face mask. How many people do you really thing are going to download an app?

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:07 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:40 pm Just had a quick scan and it's still not perfect in working out distance, but better than the current UK version. There still seems to be a determination to create a centralised app, but I suspect that we will go G&A too.

I suspect that we ultimately won't bother. Unless we see a country manage to hit 60% + downloads, it probably isn't actually worth the effort and investing in people is likely more effective

Edit - bear in mind it looks like we might struggle to get people to just wear a fucking face mask. How many people do you really thing are going to download an app?

What do you mean 'investing in people'?

ER has a friend contacted through the app, turns out he was an asymptomatic positive who was in contact with lots of people in the previous weeks. Even one success like that is surely worth it? I suppose we'd need to see the amount of people inconvenienced unnecessarily by the app but again probably still worth it.

Your 60% download target is looking for the app to do most of the work but that's never been the intention here or anywhere in Europe, AFAIK.

any word on how many people have downloaded it?

Edit, according to the app itself its 1.3m

CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:53 am

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:07 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:40 pm Just had a quick scan and it's still not perfect in working out distance, but better than the current UK version. There still seems to be a determination to create a centralised app, but I suspect that we will go G&A too.

I suspect that we ultimately won't bother. Unless we see a country manage to hit 60% + downloads, it probably isn't actually worth the effort and investing in people is likely more effective

Edit - bear in mind it looks like we might struggle to get people to just wear a fucking face mask. How many people do you really thing are going to download an app?

What do you mean 'investing in people'?

ER has a friend contacted through the app, turns out he was an asymptomatic positive who was in contact with lots of people in the previous weeks. Even one success like that is surely worth it? I suppose we'd need to see the amount of people inconvenienced unnecessarily by the app but again probably still worth it.

Your 60% download target is looking for the app to do most of the work but that's never been the intention here or anywhere in Europe, AFAIK.

I mean investing in a manual track and trace system with people doing the leg work. And the app has been portrayed everywhere as being the silver bullet - partly by misinformed politicians, and partly by misinformed press. But for it to make a realistic dent, you need 60%

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:13 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:53 am

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:07 pm

I suspect that we ultimately won't bother. Unless we see a country manage to hit 60% + downloads, it probably isn't actually worth the effort and investing in people is likely more effective

Edit - bear in mind it looks like we might struggle to get people to just wear a fucking face mask. How many people do you really thing are going to download an app?

What do you mean 'investing in people'?

ER has a friend contacted through the app, turns out he was an asymptomatic positive who was in contact with lots of people in the previous weeks. Even one success like that is surely worth it? I suppose we'd need to see the amount of people inconvenienced unnecessarily by the app but again probably still worth it.

Your 60% download target is looking for the app to do most of the work but that's never been the intention here or anywhere in Europe, AFAIK.

I mean investing in a manual track and trace system with people doing the leg work. And the app has been portrayed everywhere as being the silver bullet - partly by misinformed politicians, and partly by misinformed press. But for it to make a realistic dent, you need 60%

Certainly hasn't been portrayed here as a silver bullet.

You need both, app use and proper track and trace. But track and trace is useless in Europe for casual close contacts as we don't allow any invasion of privacy.

That covid app is a looking like a failure then. 174 new cases in Ireland today.!
Hopefully just a blip, because that would be like the UK having 2 and a half thousand.
Also, might mean people returning from Ireland will need to quarantine
I hope you get in top of it.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:01 pm That covid app is a looking like a failure then. 174 new cases in Ireland today.!
Hopefully just a blip, because that would be like the UK having 2 and a half thousand.
Also, might mean people returning from Ireland will need to quarantine
I hope you get in top of it.

A large amount are asymptomatic cases linked to specific outbreaks. Not really related to the app, as such.

CM11 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:42 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:01 pm That covid app is a looking like a failure then. 174 new cases in Ireland today.!
Hopefully just a blip, because that would be like the UK having 2 and a half thousand.
Also, might mean people returning from Ireland will need to quarantine
I hope you get in top of it.

A large amount are asymptomatic cases linked to specific outbreaks. Not really related to the app, as such.

That's not my point
If this is not just a blip ( and I really hope it is) but a trend, then Ireland's infection rate is higher than the UK, despite you having an app. And we have our pubs open.
We have a similar app about to go live, doesn't look like a game changer

You have managed to get it completely arse about face. The reason we are seeing many of our cases is because the app is picking up asymptomatic ones. It goes simply like this: person a gets the sniffles and gets a Covid diagnosis and they have app. All their close contacts get the beep to go and get tested and people with no symptoms test positive and now self isolate thus not spreading it. By its very nature the app is doing what it was designed to do

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:57 pm You have managed to get it completely arse about face. The reason we are seeing many of our cases is because the app is picking up asymptomatic ones. It goes simply like this: person a gets the sniffles and gets a Covid diagnosis and they have app. All their close contacts get the beep to go and get tested and people with no symptoms test positive and now self isolate thus not spreading it. By its very nature the app is doing what it was designed to do

So CM11 says its not related to the app but you say it is?
Hopefully it's you who is correct.
That would be more encouraging

There have been clusters in factories and everybody has then been tested with huge numbers asymptomatic so Stats is also right. If you test widely at the point of break out you will have huge numbers. Antibody tests later look useless

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:10 pm There have been clusters in factories and everybody has then been tested with huge numbers asymptomatic so Stats is also right. If you test widely at the point of break out you will have huge numbers. Antibody tests later look useless

Right, so I go back to my point. You have an app, and yet many people are still being infected despite that app. Your rate looks like its higher than the UK which currently does not have an app. Therefore, is it reasonable to conclude that the app is pretty much useless?

The app requires full usage to say it isn't working fully but in any event the blanket testing replaced what the app would have done with full usage. Most of these cases are off one positive case at the end of July (and I don't mean that one person infected all these people, just that they were found off the blanket testing resulting from that case).

You do know that the app doesn't diagnose covid and is only useful if someone tests positive?

To add, the app is to avoid cases being found with no known source. As it stands, we're running at around 4 cases per day with no known source.

CM11 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:28 pm The app requires full usage to say it isn't working fully but in any event the blanket testing replaced what the app would have done with full usage. Most of these cases are off one positive case at the end of July (and I don't mean that one person infected all these people, just that they were found off the blanket testing resulting from that case).

You do know that the app doesn't diagnose covid and is only useful if someone tests positive?

Are you serious? I'm not that thick.
The app is supposed to let you know if you have been close to someone who later tests positive for Covid-19 so you can isolate and stop the spread. The fact that the rate of infection is increasing would suggest that it doesn't work.
I want it to work desperately, but it is looking like it doesn't.
As I say again, the UK has no app and has pubs open and yet it would appear that our rate is lower (though I don't know for sure)

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:14 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:10 pm There have been clusters in factories and everybody has then been tested with huge numbers asymptomatic so Stats is also right. If you test widely at the point of break out you will have huge numbers. Antibody tests later look useless

Right, so I go back to my point. You have an app, and yet many people are still being infected despite that app. Your rate looks like its higher than the UK which currently does not have an app. Therefore, is it reasonable to conclude that the app is pretty much useless?

No. The app works whatever your view on the virulence of the disease is

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:38 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:14 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:10 pm There have been clusters in factories and everybody has then been tested with huge numbers asymptomatic so Stats is also right. If you test widely at the point of break out you will have huge numbers. Antibody tests later look useless

Right, so I go back to my point. You have an app, and yet many people are still being infected despite that app. Your rate looks like its higher than the UK which currently does not have an app. Therefore, is it reasonable to conclude that the app is pretty much useless?

No. The app works whatever your view on the virulence of the disease is

why? Because you say it does?

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:38 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:28 pm The app requires full usage to say it isn't working fully but in any event the blanket testing replaced what the app would have done with full usage. Most of these cases are off one positive case at the end of July (and I don't mean that one person infected all these people, just that they were found off the blanket testing resulting from that case).

You do know that the app doesn't diagnose covid and is only useful if someone tests positive?

Are you serious? I'm not that thick.
The app is supposed to let you know if you have been close to someone who later tests positive for Covid-19 so you can isolate and stop the spread. The fact that the rate of infection is increasing would suggest that it doesn't work.
I want it to work desperately, but it is looking like it doesn't.
As I say again, the UK has no app and has pubs open and yet it would appear that our rate is lower (though I don't know for sure)

You really aren't getting it.

The significant increase is off one case diagnosed at the end of July and the lack of finding before that wasn't a result of the app failing because the app needs a positive test to start the chain of testing, this chain was started anyway because the factory involved asked for all their workers to be tested.

In any event the app was never meant to be a silver bullet, just another layer to catch extra cases. As I said, right now our community transmission is stable which means we have control. Come back in a couple of weeks to make your point, which may be more valid then. But still not that valid because no app in the western world was ever going to make a huge dent.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:40 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:38 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:14 pm

Right, so I go back to my point. You have an app, and yet many people are still being infected despite that app. Your rate looks like its higher than the UK which currently does not have an app. Therefore, is it reasonable to conclude that the app is pretty much useless?

No. The app works whatever your view on the virulence of the disease is

why? Because you say it does?

Yeah just me but I am very authoritative

CM11 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:44 pm

You really aren't getting it.

Seeing as he's got you going in circles, I'd say it's you who is not getting it.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:19 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:44 pm

You really aren't getting it.

Seeing as he's got you going in circles, I'd say it's you who is not getting it.