NPR

Scotland's record of playing Tier 2 countries is quite good, you could say it is so because we were dropped by New Zealand for tours there some time ago for being rubbish, but that would diminished any moral victory we have in this, so we'll gloss over that.

We've played in Fiji, Samoa, Japan, Canada, Georgia, even in Australia, there was a period where we seemed to tour Argentina every year and are about to do so again, we have an upcoming fixture against Chile.

Basically what this proposal means is that Samoa will be in a play off every two years against one of Fiji, Japan and Italy, perhaps Scotland, but other than that there will be no games for the Tier 2 sides against Tier 1 outside of the World Cup

Bravo World Rugby, you've played a blinder.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:41 am

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 6:54 am It's just the same terrible closed-shop mentality dressed as something new.

One small example:
"Fiji would give up home advantage" - so still no-one has to go to Fiji, like it's always been. We'll take your sons but we'll not give anything back.

And the July Tests are mainly used by NH T1 teams to rest their best players and have a look at some new faces. That will be made a lot more difficult now, if there is something riding on those games. No more Scotland tours to Georgia, Canada and USA most likely, and they were the only T1 team playing T2 teams away with some regularity.

Scotland send their Tier 2 teams to Georgia, Canada and USA like England, like Wales, like Ireland.

The SH send their best teams up north in November/December

Which is sort of my point. The NH teams use the summer Tests, especially against T2, to look at new players and rest their stars. That's out the window in this plan.

And I've sat at Murrayfield when anything but the best SA or NZ team ran out to give Scotland a pummelling. They'd usually have the stars on the subs bench in case of any unexpected difficulty, fair enough.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:41 am

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 6:54 am It's just the same terrible closed-shop mentality dressed as something new.

One small example:
"Fiji would give up home advantage" - so still no-one has to go to Fiji, like it's always been. We'll take your sons but we'll not give anything back.

And the July Tests are mainly used by NH T1 teams to rest their best players and have a look at some new faces. That will be made a lot more difficult now, if there is something riding on those games. No more Scotland tours to Georgia, Canada and USA most likely, and they were the only T1 team playing T2 teams away with some regularity.

Scotland send their Tier 2 teams to Georgia, Canada and USA like England, like Wales, like Ireland.

The SH send their best teams up north in November/December

Not true, we don't have that kind of depth. The last time Scotland played in Canada the team was full of players from the 6N squad from that year, yeah players like Hogg and Russell were rested, but it was still a strong, for us, squad.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:52 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:41 am

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 6:54 am It's just the same terrible closed-shop mentality dressed as something new.

One small example:
"Fiji would give up home advantage" - so still no-one has to go to Fiji, like it's always been. We'll take your sons but we'll not give anything back.

And the July Tests are mainly used by NH T1 teams to rest their best players and have a look at some new faces. That will be made a lot more difficult now, if there is something riding on those games. No more Scotland tours to Georgia, Canada and USA most likely, and they were the only T1 team playing T2 teams away with some regularity.

Scotland send their Tier 2 teams to Georgia, Canada and USA like England, like Wales, like Ireland.

The SH send their best teams up north in November/December

Which is sort of my point. The NH teams use the summer Tests, especially against T2, to look at new players and rest their stars. That's out the window in this plan.

And I've sat at Murrayfield when anything but the best SA or NZ team ran out to give Scotland a pummelling. They'd usually have the stars on the subs bench in case of any unexpected difficulty, fair enough.

I'd like to see that Springbok team. Which year?

Sorry see you say they were on the bench. Now that's OK. They were on tour playing four tests, make sense to rotate players to keep them fresh.

Your best players stay at home.

Someone's off his meds this morning

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:27 am and by the way, talking about tier 2. We let the likes of Georgia, Kenia and Zimbabwe playing in our CC. We did the same with Argentina and played a massive role in helping them to a tier 1 nation.

Plus we manufacture quality players for a lot of tier 1 nations. Scotland can't scrum without Saffer fatties.

So when was the last time South Africa played a Tier2 country outside of the world cup?

South Africa
FB 15 Zane Kirchner
RW 14 Gio Aplon
OC 13 François Steyn
IC 12 Jean de Villiers
LW 11 Lwazi Mvovo
FH 10 Morné Steyn
SH 9 Francois Hougaard
N8 8 Ryan Kankowski
OF 7 Juan Smith
BF 6 Deon Stegmann
RL 5 Victor Matfield (c)
LL 4 Bakkies Botha
TP 3 Jannie du Plessis
HK 2 Bismarck du Plessis
LP 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements:
HK 16 Adriaan Strauss
PR 17 CJ van der Linde
LK 18 Flip van der Merwe
FL 19 Willem Alberts
SH 20 Ruan Pienaar
CE 21 Adi Jacobs
FH 22 Patrick Lambie

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:09 am Sorry see you say they were on the bench. Now that's OK. They were on tour playing four tests, make sense to rotate players to keep them fresh.
Your best players stay at home.

Sorry Oom, but that's rubbish. We send whoever's available. When England went to South Africa in 2018 (the last time tours happened for the British and Irish teams) it was a squad with lots of frontline players and a some fringe options, which describes pretty much any squad Eddie's ever picked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Engl ... ca#England

The only team who really sends out their seconds on tour is France and that's because the tours are scheduled to either start immediately after or even in conflict with the end of the Top14 season so lots of the best players aren't available.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:11 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:27 am and by the way, talking about tier 2. We let the likes of Georgia, Kenia and Zimbabwe playing in our CC. We did the same with Argentina and played a massive role in helping them to a tier 1 nation.

Plus we manufacture quality players for a lot of tier 1 nations. Scotland can't scrum without Saffer fatties.

So when was the last time South Africa played a Tier2 country outside of the world cup?

Year back 2 test vs Georgia

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:12 am South Africa
FB 15 Zane Kirchner
RW 14 Gio Aplon
OC 13 François Steyn
IC 12 Jean de Villiers
LW 11 Lwazi Mvovo
FH 10 Morné Steyn
SH 9 Francois Hougaard
N8 8 Ryan Kankowski
OF 7 Juan Smith
BF 6 Deon Stegmann
RL 5 Victor Matfield (c)
LL 4 Bakkies Botha
TP 3 Jannie du Plessis
HK 2 Bismarck du Plessis
LP 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements:
HK 16 Adriaan Strauss
PR 17 CJ van der Linde
LK 18 Flip van der Merwe
FL 19 Willem Alberts
SH 20 Ruan Pienaar
CE 21 Adi Jacobs
FH 22 Patrick Lambie

Seem many moons ago. Who was left at home?

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:25 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:11 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:27 am and by the way, talking about tier 2. We let the likes of Georgia, Kenia and Zimbabwe playing in our CC. We did the same with Argentina and played a massive role in helping them to a tier 1 nation.

Plus we manufacture quality players for a lot of tier 1 nations. Scotland can't scrum without Saffer fatties.

So when was the last time South Africa played a Tier2 country outside of the world cup?

Year back 2 test vs Georgia

Not through choice, you just couldn't find anyone else to play because of Covid. By choice, you haven't had a test vs a Tier 2 in a very long time.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:08 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:09 am Sorry see you say they were on the bench. Now that's OK. They were on tour playing four tests, make sense to rotate players to keep them fresh.
Your best players stay at home.

Sorry Oom, but that's rubbish. We send whoever's available. When England went to South Africa in 2018 (the last time tours happened for the British and Irish teams) it was a squad with lots of frontline players and a some fringe options, which describes pretty much any squad Eddie's ever picked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Engl ... ca#England

The only team who really sends out their seconds on tour is France and that's because the tours are scheduled to either start immediately after or even in conflict with the end of the Top14 season so lots of the best players aren't available.

Rugby world

Four payers have also been rested: Danny Care, Dan Cole, James Haskell and Richard Wigglesworth.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:31 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:25 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:11 am

So when was the last time South Africa played a Tier2 country outside of the world cup?

Year back 2 test vs Georgia

Not through choice, you just couldn't find anyone else to play because of Covid. By choice, you haven't had a test vs a Tier 2 in a very long time.

You have a habit of shifting goalposts up your arse.

2015 we played the USA.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:36 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:31 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:25 am

Year back 2 test vs Georgia

Not through choice, you just couldn't find anyone else to play because of Covid. By choice, you haven't had a test vs a Tier 2 in a very long time.

You have a habit of shifting goalposts up your arse.

2015 we played the USA.

Wow, three games in seven years, two of them forced on you by Covid. That's super.

And the USA match was a World Cup game. And you only played Georgia once last year.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:33 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:08 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:09 am Sorry see you say they were on the bench. Now that's OK. They were on tour playing four tests, make sense to rotate players to keep them fresh.
Your best players stay at home.

Sorry Oom, but that's rubbish. We send whoever's available. When England went to South Africa in 2018 (the last time tours happened for the British and Irish teams) it was a squad with lots of frontline players and a some fringe options, which describes pretty much any squad Eddie's ever picked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Engl ... ca#England

The only team who really sends out their seconds on tour is France and that's because the tours are scheduled to either start immediately after or even in conflict with the end of the Top14 season so lots of the best players aren't available.

Rugby world

Four payers have also been rested: Danny Care, Dan Cole, James Haskell and Richard Wigglesworth.

Four players missing by choice is hardly sending a second squad, besides which they can all be fairly easily expained bar maybe Cole.
Care - beginning of the end for him with Jones. He played again in Autumn 2018, but after that he didn't get picked again. Eddie was looking at replacements on tour because he wanted rid of Care.
Haskell - spent the whole season batting injury, barely any game time. He also spent basically the whole of the next season injured and retired in May 2019. He was a spent force at this point.
Wigglesworth - never any higher than 3rd choice in the scrum half pecking order.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:12 am South Africa
FB 15 Zane Kirchner
RW 14 Gio Aplon
OC 13 François Steyn
IC 12 Jean de Villiers
LW 11 Lwazi Mvovo
FH 10 Morné Steyn
SH 9 Francois Hougaard
N8 8 Ryan Kankowski
OF 7 Juan Smith
BF 6 Deon Stegmann
RL 5 Victor Matfield (c)
LL 4 Bakkies Botha
TP 3 Jannie du Plessis
HK 2 Bismarck du Plessis
LP 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements:
HK 16 Adriaan Strauss
PR 17 CJ van der Linde
LK 18 Flip van der Merwe
FL 19 Willem Alberts
SH 20 Ruan Pienaar
CE 21 Adi Jacobs
FH 22 Patrick Lambie

Seem many moons ago. Who was left at home?

I think Habana is the stand out missing person from the Tri Nations squad of that year. I posted it as a bit of joke because Scotland won that match against South Africa, a couple of weeks after we'd been hammered by the All Blacks.

It is our most recent victory in the fixture, some 12 years ago.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:45 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:33 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:08 am

Sorry Oom, but that's rubbish. We send whoever's available. When England went to South Africa in 2018 (the last time tours happened for the British and Irish teams) it was a squad with lots of frontline players and a some fringe options, which describes pretty much any squad Eddie's ever picked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Engl ... ca#England

The only team who really sends out their seconds on tour is France and that's because the tours are scheduled to either start immediately after or even in conflict with the end of the Top14 season so lots of the best players aren't available.

Rugby world

Four payers have also been rested: Danny Care, Dan Cole, James Haskell and Richard Wigglesworth.

Four players missing by choice is hardly sending a second squad, besides which they can all be fairly easily expained bar maybe Cole.
Care - beginning of the end for him with Jones. He played again in Autumn 2018, but after that he didn't get picked again. Eddie was looking at replacements on tour because he wanted rid of Care.
Haskell - spent the whole season batting injury, barely any game time. He also spent basically the whole of the next season injured and retired in May 2019. He was a spent force at this point.
Wigglesworth - never any higher than 3rd choice in the scrum half pecking order.

Cole was in a slump and Williams deserved a shot. None of these players were first choice at this point (Haskell might have been were it not for all the injuries). It's typical Oom nonsense.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:02 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:45 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:33 am
Rugby world

Four players missing by choice is hardly sending a second squad, besides which they can all be fairly easily expained bar maybe Cole.
Care - beginning of the end for him with Jones. He played again in Autumn 2018, but after that he didn't get picked again. Eddie was looking at replacements on tour because he wanted rid of Care.
Haskell - spent the whole season batting injury, barely any game time. He also spent basically the whole of the next season injured and retired in May 2019. He was a spent force at this point.
Wigglesworth - never any higher than 3rd choice in the scrum half pecking order.

Cole was in a slump and Williams deserved a shot. None of these players were first choice at this point (Haskell might have been were it not for all the injuries). It's typical Oom nonsense.

Its not me. It's Oom Google.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:04 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:02 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:45 am

Four players missing by choice is hardly sending a second squad, besides which they can all be fairly easily expained bar maybe Cole.
Care - beginning of the end for him with Jones. He played again in Autumn 2018, but after that he didn't get picked again. Eddie was looking at replacements on tour because he wanted rid of Care.
Haskell - spent the whole season batting injury, barely any game time. He also spent basically the whole of the next season injured and retired in May 2019. He was a spent force at this point.
Wigglesworth - never any higher than 3rd choice in the scrum half pecking order.

Cole was in a slump and Williams deserved a shot. None of these players were first choice at this point (Haskell might have been were it not for all the injuries). It's typical Oom nonsense.

Its not me. It's Oom Google.

Yes, if you had any idea what you were talking about you'd have read what you Googled and went "oh, I'll look really stupid if I post this as an example of England sending a weak team" but hey, we get what we get

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:48 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:12 am South Africa
FB 15 Zane Kirchner
RW 14 Gio Aplon
OC 13 François Steyn
IC 12 Jean de Villiers
LW 11 Lwazi Mvovo
FH 10 Morné Steyn
SH 9 Francois Hougaard
N8 8 Ryan Kankowski
OF 7 Juan Smith
BF 6 Deon Stegmann
RL 5 Victor Matfield (c)
LL 4 Bakkies Botha
TP 3 Jannie du Plessis
HK 2 Bismarck du Plessis
LP 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements:
HK 16 Adriaan Strauss
PR 17 CJ van der Linde
LK 18 Flip van der Merwe
FL 19 Willem Alberts
SH 20 Ruan Pienaar
CE 21 Adi Jacobs
FH 22 Patrick Lambie

Seem many moons ago. Who was left at home?

I think Habana is the stand out missing person from the Tri Nations squad of that year. I posted it as a bit of joke because Scotland won that match against South Africa, a couple of weeks after we'd been hammered by the All Blacks.

It is our most recent victory in the fixture, some 12 years ago.

Boet honestly, Habana won't sit at home when the Springboks toured. No fucking way.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:08 am
Boet honestly, Habana won't sit at home when the Springboks toured. No fucking way.

Google tells me that Habana had played against Wales and Ireland in previous weeks, but was unavailable for the game in Edinburgh due to a hand injury.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:58 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:08 am
Boet honestly, Habana won't sit at home when the Springboks toured. No fucking way.

Google tells me that Habana had played against Wales and Ireland in previous weeks, but was unavailable for the game in Edinburgh due to a hand injury.

Yep thought so. Nowadays the Springboks have so much depth, there's no fucking way you know the first choice in many positions specifically our pack.

But they all want to play in a test wear the jersey.

I have a feeling that no agreement was reached. We would have heard about it by now.

I can't see any benefit to for the 6N and RC to this proposal. The impact of relegation would be catastrophic.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 10:14 pm I have a feeling that no agreement was reached. We would have heard about it by now.

I can't see any benefit to for the 6N and RC to this proposal. The impact of relegation would be catastrophic.

Yeah, or the Tier2 countries. It’s of no benefit to anyone.

I'd hope that this summers fantastic tours have put this kind of nonsense to bed once and for all. There's no way that a nations League, of whatever makeup, would have matched the last few weeks for spectacle, excitement and quality rugby.