NPR

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:28 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:19 pm

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:01 pm

Hmmm

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/ ... ge-square/

The Churchill Project trying to rehabilitate Churchill's image? Well I never.

At the time, troop arrivals were reported in the local papers, there's photographic evidence of tanks stationed in gallowgate market, there was a machine gun nest at city chambers and the obseerver reported that the chambers were like an armed camp. Or you could check the War Cabinet minutes from 31st January 1919 where they state that 6 tanks had already been sent north.

I had hoped you might have actually read the article than just glanced at the web address. Check the first footnote, it's a summary of the author's piece from the Journal of Scottish Historical Studies, is that an accepted source for you?

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:20 pm

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:28 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:19 pm

The Churchill Project trying to rehabilitate Churchill's image? Well I never.

At the time, troop arrivals were reported in the local papers, there's photographic evidence of tanks stationed in gallowgate market, there was a machine gun nest at city chambers and the obseerver reported that the chambers were like an armed camp. Or you could check the War Cabinet minutes from 31st January 1919 where they state that 6 tanks had already been sent north.

I had hoped you might have actually read the article than just glanced at the web address. Check the first footnote, it's a summary of the author's piece from the Journal of Scottish Historical Studies, is that an accepted source for you?

I did read it. Have you read the minutes of the war cabinet meetings? Because I have.

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:21 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:20 pm

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:28 pm

I had hoped you might have actually read the article than just glanced at the web address. Check the first footnote, it's a summary of the author's piece from the Journal of Scottish Historical Studies, is that an accepted source for you?

I did read it. Have you read the minutes of the war cabinet meetings? Because I have.

Yes, but your description of "Churchill sending tanks" is really stretching it - as the article clearly demonstrates. The author of the piece I linked to, Gordon Barclay, got such a pile on by cybernats following the article that he has gone on to co-author a book on the subject.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:42 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:21 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:20 pm

I did read it. Have you read the minutes of the war cabinet meetings? Because I have.

Yes, but your description of "Churchill sending tanks" is really stretching it - as the article clearly demonstrates. The author of the piece I linked to, Gordon Barclay, got such a pile on by cybernats following the article that he has gone on to co-author a book on the subject.

He was minister of war. To pretend he had nothing to do with it is nonsense.

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:07 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:42 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:21 pm

Yes, but your description of "Churchill sending tanks" is really stretching it - as the article clearly demonstrates. The author of the piece I linked to, Gordon Barclay, got such a pile on by cybernats following the article that he has gone on to co-author a book on the subject.

He was minister of war. To pretend he had nothing to do with it is nonsense.

The article, published in a respected historical journal, is clear and fair on the point. You're grasping now to try and hold on to a grievance that appears strangely precious to you. I'll let you have the last word.

Hugo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:55 pm As far as solutions to this problem go, I would imagine having it permanently in the UK is the only real option.

Could rotate between say, London, Birmingham & Manchester but I suppose the games would lose their novelty & appeal.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:42 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:21 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:20 pm

I did read it. Have you read the minutes of the war cabinet meetings? Because I have.

Yes, but your description of "Churchill sending tanks" is really stretching it - as the article clearly demonstrates. The author of the piece I linked to, Gordon Barclay, got such a pile on by cybernats following the article that he has gone on to co-author a book on the subject.

He was minister of war. To pretend he had nothing to do with it is nonsense.

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:35 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:55 pm As far as solutions to this problem go, I would imagine having it permanently in the UK is the only real option.

Could rotate between say, London, Birmingham & Manchester but I suppose the games would lose their novelty & appeal.

Hmmm,..and revert to calling it the British Empire Games ?

Edit - see Fester got there first.

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:42 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:21 pm

Yes, but your description of "Churchill sending tanks" is really stretching it - as the article clearly demonstrates. The author of the piece I linked to, Gordon Barclay, got such a pile on by cybernats following the article that he has gone on to co-author a book on the subject.

He was minister of war. To pretend he had nothing to do with it is nonsense.

And as is made clear in the peer reviewed academic publication, just because he was Minisyer of War didn't mean he attended the war cabinet

Hugo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:40 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:35 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:55 pm As far as solutions to this problem go, I would imagine having it permanently in the UK is the only real option.

Could rotate between say, London, Birmingham & Manchester but I suppose the games would lose their novelty & appeal.

Hmmm,..and revert to calling it the British Empire Games ?

Edit - see Fester got there first.

Keeping the games alive is the important thing because from a sporting pov it has lots of merit imo.

Julien Alfred (St Lucia) got the silver in the 100 last year in Brum and she is a gold medal prospect next month at the World Championships. Im sure competing in Birmingham in front of a big crowd is going to stand her in good stead.

Its just a great stage and ocassion for many athletes.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:46 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:40 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:35 pm

Hmmm,..and revert to calling it the British Empire Games ?

Edit - see Fester got there first.

Keeping the games alive is the important thing because from a sporting pov it has lots of merit imo.

Julien Alfred (St Lucia) got the silver in the 100 last year in Brum and she is a gold medal prospect next month at the World Championships. Im sure competing in Birmingham in front of a big crowd is going to stand her in good stead.

Its just a great stage and ocassion for many athletes.

And one of the few times we get to compete as Scotland

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:41 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:07 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:42 am

He was minister of war. To pretend he had nothing to do with it is nonsense.

The article, published in a respected historical journal, is clear and fair on the point. You're grasping now to try and hold on to a grievance that appears strangely precious to you. I'll let you have the last word.

Some Scottish nationalists are trying to present themselves and Scotland as victims of the 'British' empire which involved all kinds of mental contortions (not the least being they are as responsible for it as much as anyone else in these Islands). Lying about Churchill crushing a rebellion in Glasgow with tanks is just another part of it.

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:59 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:46 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:40 pm

Keeping the games alive is the important thing because from a sporting pov it has lots of merit imo.

Julien Alfred (St Lucia) got the silver in the 100 last year in Brum and she is a gold medal prospect next month at the World Championships. Im sure competing in Birmingham in front of a big crowd is going to stand her in good stead.

Its just a great stage and ocassion for many athletes.

And one of the few times we get to compete as Scotland

Yeah, its good in that regard. Funnily enough the Edinburgh games in 1986 are my first recollection of watching athletics (I was too young to have watched or remembered watching the Los Angeles Olympics) so I will always have a fondness for the CG for that reason alone. I vividly recall watching the opening ceremony at Meadowbank with my Dad.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:18 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:41 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:07 am

The article, published in a respected historical journal, is clear and fair on the point. You're grasping now to try and hold on to a grievance that appears strangely precious to you. I'll let you have the last word.

Some Scottish nationalists are trying to present themselves and Scotland as victims of the 'British' empire which involved all kinds of mental contortions (not the least being they are as responsible for it as much as anyone else in these Islands). Lying about Churchill crushing a rebellion in Glasgow with tanks is just another part of it.

To be clear, that’s not my view. I think I’ve said on here before that the guys who come out with this ‘last english colony’ bullshit are fucking idiots. Scotlands role in empire is complex but we’ll never come to terms with it or even understand it properly while we’re still part of the UK.

I’m not really clear if people are saying tanks weren’t sent to Glasgow, or if they’re saying they were but Churchill didn’t have anything to do with it. As is clear from the War Cabinet minutes, for Glasgow and other cities at the time, the government couldn’t just seen the tanks in, it had to be requested by the civil authorities. But the civil authorities couldn’t just send the tanks in either, that request had to be authorised and approved by government, via the ministry of war and the war cabinet. Churchill was minister of war and in the war cabinet, so had a key role second only to the prime minister.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:38 am The Red Clydeside period makes for fascinating reading, you had a very large number of men just returned from war, highly trained and combat ready, the Communist Party of Great Britain in Glasgow and environs was growing in popularity, Socialists like Willie Gallagher and John McLean were garnering support.

It's hardly surprising the government in London was looking north with some trepidation.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:38 am The Red Clydeside period makes for fascinating reading, you had a very large number of men just returned from war, highly trained and combat ready, the Communist Party of Great Britain in Glasgow and environs was growing in popularity, Socialists like Willie Gallagher and John McLean were garnering support.

It's hardly surprising the government in London was looking north with some trepidation.

The records of the war cabinet describe them as bolshevists. What they wanted was to work 40 hours a week instead of 47, with the associated pay cut, so more men could be employed.

How dreadfully revolutionary of them.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:00 am

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:59 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:46 pm

And one of the few times we get to compete as Scotland

Yeah, its good in that regard. Funnily enough the Edinburgh games in 1986 are my first recollection of watching athletics (I was too young to have watched or remembered watching the Los Angeles Olympics) so I will always have a fondness for the CG for that reason alone. I vividly recall watching the opening ceremony at Meadowbank with my Dad.

That's one of my first memories as well, sitting in the stand at Meadowbank with my mum and dad. Thanks for reminding me!

Deepsouth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:07 am No Australian city is going to take it on. Frankly if Albanese wins the next election Australia may not even be in the Commonwealth.

Let's hope so......

The government of Alberta has pulled its support for a bid to host the 2030 Commonwealth Games, due to rising costs.

A joint bid was being considered by the Canadian province, centred around the cities of Edmonton and Calgary.

Tourism and Sport Minister Joseph Schow said the bill was estimated at C$2.7 billion (NZ$3.32b) - a burden "too high for the province to bear".

Last month Australia pulled out of hosting the 2026 games in Victoria due to budget blowouts.

The initial plan was to host the games over 11 days in August 2030 with competitions and events spread between Calgary and Edmonton, as well as the Tsuut'ina Nation and Enoch Cree Nation.

In a statement Schow suggested the "corporate sponsorship model" and "limited broadcast revenues" would have put 93% of costs on taxpayers.

He insisted the authorities wanted to be transparent about funding and demonstrating a return on investment.

"That is why we have made the decision not to continue pursuing the bid for the 2030 Commonwealth Games."

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:32 pm Next few games now looking more shaky as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/commonwealth-games/66405359

Deepsouth wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:34 pm I told you. No one is interested.......

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:23 pm

Deepsouth wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:34 pm I told you. No one is interested.......

Says you

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:23 pm

Deepsouth wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:34 pm I told you. No one is interested.......

Says you

Deepsouth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:07 am No Australian city is going to take it on. Frankly if Albanese wins the next election Australia may not even be in the Commonwealth.

Let's hope so......

Jethro wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:11 pm

Deepsouth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:07 am No Australian city is going to take it on. Frankly if Albanese wins the next election Australia may not even be in the Commonwealth.

Let's hope so......

Get's my vote, though no doubt we'll still send teams to Commonwealth games, take part in the Eurovision, and generally throw tens of millions of dollars at shite that doesn't go near the massive social problems the Country is increasingly experiences.