NPR

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:30 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:55 pm Apparently Scabby is going to drop Ford so he can start Farrel at 10 with Manu at 12.

I wish I was joking.

I believe I speak for us all when I say... FFS.

Accepting perhaps we're boring, setting up a more solid defensive line to stop Fiji doing too much, and just grind them down.

We might have more big hit and card potential but that doesn't necessarily mean a more secure defence when manu and Farrell go looking for big hits.

The Mail expecting Smith at FB at the weekend.

Potentially

Faz
May (?)
Tuilagi
Marchant
Daly (?)
Smith

They were less certain on wings, but suggesting May/Daly

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:40 pm The Mail expecting Smith at FB at the weekend.

Potentially

Faz
May (?)
Tuilagi
Marchant
Daly (?)
Smith

They were less certain on wings, but suggesting May/Daly

May and Daly when we have talent like radwan and arundell.

I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:23 pm I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

If true, its a terrible back 3. May and Daly have both lost all the pace that was their main selling point. May's positioning has always been a bit suspect and has only got worse, and Daly has been absolute dogshit since coming back into the England team. Smith has potential at Fullback but has only really played there against Chile, and to make a success of it needs support from a pair of experienced and in-form wingers.

As you say, when added to Farrell and Tuilagi it just shows a completely incoherent and confused approach.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:23 pm I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

I read something a couple of weeks ago about baiting them into playing a kicking game. Maybe reading too much into it

I hope to god that Farrell isn’t playing, if he is then I’ll be supporting Fiji.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:23 pm I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

Scrum half, fly half and full back hoist the box kicks and up and unders all day long, wingers and Marchant chase, Tuilagi waits to blitz on the second line of defence. Wait for mistakes. Kick to corner to maul off the lineout, kick for 3.

Rinse and repeat.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:20 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:23 pm I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

Scrum half, fly half and full back hoist the box kicks and up and unders all day long, wingers and Marchant chase, Tuilagi waits to blitz on the second line of defence. Wait for mistakes. Kick to corner to maul off the lineout, kick for 3.

Rinse and repeat.

Sounds like the Saffa game plan. I call this the "Check the scoreboard tactic"

sefton wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:06 pm I hope to god that Farrell isn’t playing, if he is then I’ll be supporting Fiji.

I can see if I can get you an invitation to this barbecue if you'd like?

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:34 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:23 pm I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

If true, its a terrible back 3. May and Daly have both lost all the pace that was their main selling point. May's positioning has always been a bit suspect and has only got worse, and Daly has been absolute dogshit since coming back into the England team. Smith has potential at Fullback but has only really played there against Chile, and to make a success of it needs support from a pair of experienced and in-form wingers.

As you say, when added to Farrell and Tuilagi it just shows a completely incoherent and confused approach.

Have to agree, this sounds a disastrous idea. Smith has had some success, but not much, in making me eat my words, but I fear a bit for him at 15 against Fiji. The whole backline seems a little slow and weak in defence, you would have to think that if Fiji get behind them, which they will do, it's a canter to the line.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:31 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:34 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:23 pm I just don't understand the thinking behind that lineup. If we're going defensive, go defensive. If we're trying to attack, let's do that. This feels like a right mish mash with no clear thinking.

Have Fiji done much kicking? Maybe the idea is that we can play Smith because they aren't kicking a lot. Not that he's terrible in the air or anything, but Steward is rather handy on that front.

If true, its a terrible back 3. May and Daly have both lost all the pace that was their main selling point. May's positioning has always been a bit suspect and has only got worse, and Daly has been absolute dogshit since coming back into the England team. Smith has potential at Fullback but has only really played there against Chile, and to make a success of it needs support from a pair of experienced and in-form wingers.

As you say, when added to Farrell and Tuilagi it just shows a completely incoherent and confused approach.

Have to agree, this sounds a disastrous idea. Smith has had some success, but not much, in making me eat my words, but I fear a bit for him at 15 against Fiji. The whole backline seems a little slow and weak in defence, you would have to think that if Fiji get behind them, which they will do, it's a canter to the line.

Do you know what, would never have considered it a month or two ago, but I don't hate the idea of Smith at FB if the options are him or Steward (really I'd rather a better FB). He does at least have the speed and agility to get in a position to attempt a tackle when the line has been broken. So many times recently Steward's lack of agility and pace has been exposed. He's often not in the right post code to make a tackle. Being good under the high ball and being able to truck it up a bit just isn't enough at this level.

Clearly Smith at FB is risky and not something you'd be attempting if things were going well, but there is at least some attacking threat / playmaking ability there that was absent before.

May and Daly on the wings is pretty depressing, because there actually are wings in the league who consistently out perform them domestically. I get the credit in the bank thing, but we're selecting a team for 2023, not 2019 FFS

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:07 am

Is there any game for which this isn’t valid?

Hopefully it brings back fond memories of the neutrals on the Eng Fiji thread on PR thread during the 2015 World Cup.

That one was a lot of fun

I'm backing the heavy Edinburgh contingent in the quarters, 'Mon Big Bill

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:12 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:07 am

Is there any game for which this isn’t valid?

Yes. Plenty of England won't be supporting England.

I have a couple of cat 2 tickets for sale on the resale site from the follow your team pack (my wife is the England fan) but I would let them go for less money to someone from here, especially if I recognise your name!

England: Smith; May, Marchant, Tuilagi, Daly; Farrell (capt), Mitchell; Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Chessum, Lawes, Curry, Earl.

Replacements: Dan, Marler, Sinckler, Martin, Vunipola, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:09 am England: Smith; May, Marchant, Tuilagi, Daly; Farrell (capt), Mitchell; Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Chessum, Lawes, Curry, Earl.

Replacements: Dan, Marler, Sinckler, Martin, Vunipola, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

Borthwick must be saving Ford's legs for the final.

Earl is not an 8, Vinupola is not a great option on the bench. Zach who?

I am so glad Ren and Stimpy aren't really a thing today, my son would latch onto that bloody song and drive me madder than Ren.

The one consolation we can take is that we appear to have finally moved on from Youngs, although obviously the shirt is just being kept warm until his spiritual (and actual) successor JVP returns.

Poms by 10.

Really does depend on what version of Fiji turn up and/or what they have left in the tank. England will bumble, stumble, and fumble about, irregardless. If Fiji are fairly disciplined - foul play, defensive effort, set piece, stuff like 22 exits, etc - and enough ball sticks in hand then it will be an interesting match.

Nobody wins if you're an England fan though. Likely Borthwick stays in place anyway, but a win and that becomes pretty certain

sefton wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:06 pm I hope to god that Farrell isn’t playing, if he is then I’ll be supporting Fiji.

I feel sorry for the touchables like Mitchell and Smith as they will be blamed if it falls over.

Edit: if I was Scotland or Wales i would be checking out any talented unselected England youth players as England are going to be a dull mess.

I honestly don't get the Farrell for Ford switch, I thought Ford brought a degree of sanity to the English backs. Smith to FB is just silly, he might do ok v Fiji but he is not a FB. Tuilagi still a defensive liability along with both May and Daly. However I cant see Fiji coping with English forwards power and their kicking game and will end up trying to run the ball from everywhere which will not work. England will win easily unless ....

Arundel not even on bench.

el capitan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:47 pm Really does depend on what version of Fiji turn up and/or what they have left in the tank. England will bumble, stumble, and fumble about, irregardless. If Fiji are fairly disciplined - foul play, defensive effort, set piece, stuff like 22 exits, etc - and enough ball sticks in hand then it will be an interesting match.

Nobody wins if you're an England fan though. Likely Borthwick stays in place anyway, but a win and that becomes pretty certain

Borthwick isn’t going anywhere regardless.

Best of luck, Fiji. This selection makes me sick.

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:09 am England: Smith; May, Marchant, Tuilagi, Daly; Farrell (capt), Mitchell; Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Chessum, Lawes, Curry, Earl.

Replacements: Dan, Marler, Sinckler, Martin, Vunipola, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

No carthorse Steward? I kinda see a rationale for that in that Fiji are quick......... but then so are most other oppositions' backs. If Eng are going to kick everything, has Borthwick just removed a key weapon?

Can't blame you for not paying attention, but Steward's form has nosedived, Smith's impact from the bench has bailed England's attack out time and again, and the greatest fly half the world has ever seen cannot be dropped. So here we are.

Of course a properly selected squad would've had a live alternative at 15 in good form who actually plays there regularly but these things are beyond Borthwick.

England by quite a lot, I reckon.

That’s my detailed and nuanced assessment

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:25 am England by quite a lot, I reckon.

That’s my detailed and nuanced assessment

You must have bumped your head after the loss yesterday.

Gwaaarn Fiji

Cmaan Fiji....do it

Oh my, those headphones…

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:03 am Can't blame you for not paying attention, but Steward's form has nosedived, Smith's impact from the bench has bailed England's attack out time and again, and the greatest fly half the world has ever seen cannot be dropped. So here we are.

Of course a properly selected squad would've had a live alternative at 15 in good form who actually plays there regularly but these things are beyond Borthwick.

Agree on Stewards form. The greatest fly half the world has ever seen must train like a dream because it is a surprising number of coaches (jones, gatland, borthwick, lancaster) have played him as a lone playmaker then realised it doesn't work. McCall has always had additional playmaker types in that sarries backline like goode and lozowski or a controlling scrumhalf like Wigglesworth. Dropping an out of form Steward to fit in a 2nd playmaker makes sense.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:07 pm Oh my, those headphones…

ITV Theme song for England today: “I Put a Spell On You”

Right.

Thank christ I've found a non ITV stream to watch.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:50 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:07 pm Oh my, those headphones…

ITV Theme song for England today: “I Put a Spell On You”

Right.

Did you see Smiths golden, monogrammed headphones?