NPR

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:37 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:32 pm
Blake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:50 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:10 am

That i absolutely rancid mockers bait. So rotten even flies wouldn't touch it.

The Boks are overwhelming favourites. Anything less than a 20 point victory margin will be a choke.
England undefeated; basically playing at home. Fresher and with a point to prove after the 2019 disappointement.
Boks dropped a game, spent our load against France.

England heavy favourites.
Christ you guys are reaching. Just look at the bookies. There's only so much mockers can take.

Just as long as you aren't insufferable about acting like you're achieving something when you beat us.

Well the world nr 1 team didn't reach a WC semi final. It will be a massive achievement for us reaching the final. Massive pressure on the Springboks.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:38 pm**

Oh ffs will you poms grow some backbone and back your team.

You were written off before the semi-final against NZ in 2019, there is always a chance the same could happen. You've found some form in the last few matches, and confidence is increasing.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:46 pm**

Were we written off in 2019? I vividly remember greeting my mates in the pub with ‘we’re going to fucking smash them’ that morning

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:48 pm**

OK written off is probably an exaggeration but NZ were favourites.

Just back your boys. There is some serious talent there.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:58 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:48 pm OK written off is probably an exaggeration but NZ were favourites.

Just back your boys. There is some serious talent there.

I don’t think most of us would disagree that there is a core of a side that can/has performed at a high level, there’s serious doubt as to whether they can anymore

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:59 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:38 pm Oh ffs will you poms grow some backbone and back your team.

You were written off before the semi-final against NZ in 2019, there is always a chance the same could happen. You've found some form in the last few matches, and confidence is increasing.

This team is performing at a much, much lower level than the one that managed to triumph over the ABs four years ago.

It's not a lack of spine, per your other comment, we're just realistic enough to know that we're a pretty crap team and South Africa are very good. It might be closer than we think, but there is a genuine gulf between the two sides at the moment.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:14 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:48 pm There is some serious talent there.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:16 pm**

Eish Sandy, now the mocker gods are awakening

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:22 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:46 pm Were we written off in 2019? I vividly remember greeting my mates in the pub with ‘we’re going to fucking smash them’ that morning

I don't remember being massively confident, but the team were in a much better vein of form than this one is, and had players at their peak. What was surprising about 2019 was how totally England dominated the ABs. It was arguably the best RWC performance by an England team.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:24 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:14 pm
assfly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:48 pm There is some serious talent there.

If we lose to the Poms, I'm sending Sards to hunt you down.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:24 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:16 pm Eish Sandy, now the mocker gods are awakening

Perhaps, but after being worried about France and nearly shitting my pants for the whole of the 2nd half (I think I might have had a small heart attack when Danty broke through for the 2nd time)........I'm going balls-out this Saturday!!

Fudge the Mockers. Boks by 18 over shithouse England

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:29 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:24 pm
assfly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:16 pm Eish Sandy, now the mocker gods are awakening
Perhaps, but after being worried about France and nearly shitting my pants for the whole of the 2nd half (I think I might have had a small heart attack when Danty broke through for the 2nd time)........I'm going balls-out this Saturday!!

Fudge the Mockers. Boks by 18 over shithouse England

18 is sill mockers

and I honestly wish that I thought that was jesting!

In all seriousness, I expect a very clear bok victory, by 15+. I think England will fire a few shots, but not enough to really make a difference and even if we go well for a period the boks will turn the screw on us in the scrum.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:29 pm**

Brazil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:22 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:46 pm Were we written off in 2019? I vividly remember greeting my mates in the pub with ‘we’re going to fucking smash them’ that morning
I don't remember being massively confident, but the team were in a much better vein of form than this one is, and had players at their peak. What was surprising about 2019 was how totally England dominated the ABs. It was arguably the best RWC performance by an England team.

I've said it elsewhere, but this England campaign feels a little more like the France 2007 RWC one to me.
Disjointed in the pool stages, team on the ropes, nobody giving them a chance...yet they are only one win away from a World Cup final.

They had no right to get as far as they did in 2007, but France expending themselves knocking out NZ, and England squeeking past Australia created the perfect storm to get them to the final where they ran us very close and almost had it if it wasn't for one tackle.
When it comes to knockout rugby, strange things have happened.

The scene is earily similar.

I won't feel comfortable until the match is over.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:30 pm**

Brazil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:22 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:46 pm Were we written off in 2019? I vividly remember greeting my mates in the pub with ‘we’re going to fucking smash them’ that morning
I don't remember being massively confident, but the team were in a much better vein of form than this one is, and had players at their peak. What was surprising about 2019 was how totally England dominated the ABs. It was arguably the best RWC performance by an England team.

With the caveat of 91 and 95 being before my time, there’s no arguably about it for me. England reached levels last reached in NZ 2003 that day, sadly it was very much a false dawn

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:57 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:29 pm
Brazil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:22 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:46 pm Were we written off in 2019? I vividly remember greeting my mates in the pub with ‘we’re going to fucking smash them’ that morning
I don't remember being massively confident, but the team were in a much better vein of form than this one is, and had players at their peak. What was surprising about 2019 was how totally England dominated the ABs. It was arguably the best RWC performance by an England team.
I've said it elsewhere, but this England campaign feels a little more like the France 2007 RWC one to me.
Disjointed in the pool stages, team on the ropes, nobody giving them a chance...yet they are only one win away from a World Cup final.

They had no right to get as far as they did in 2007, but France expending themselves knocking out NZ, and England squeeking past Australia created the perfect storm to get them to the final where they ran us very close and almost had it if it wasn't for one tackle.
When it comes to knockout rugby, strange things have happened.

The scene is earily similar.

I won't feel comfortable until the match is over.

However, the '07 team still had some of our GOATs from the '03 squad knocking around and some of the other '03 squad members who, if nothing else, had a strength of will we haven't ever really seen from this England side. For all that Farrell's leadership is farted on about by coaches and pundits he's not a Corry, Dallaglio or Wilkinson; he's not even a Tindall or a Vickery. Those were players with a certain demeanour and aura to them. We've no one like that.

One of the biggest features of Jones' reign and now Borthwick's was struggling to arrest a momentum swing in favour of the opposition and no ability to chase a deficit on the scoreboard.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:05 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:29 pm
Brazil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:22 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:46 pm Were we written off in 2019? I vividly remember greeting my mates in the pub with ‘we’re going to fucking smash them’ that morning
I don't remember being massively confident, but the team were in a much better vein of form than this one is, and had players at their peak. What was surprising about 2019 was how totally England dominated the ABs. It was arguably the best RWC performance by an England team.
I've said it elsewhere, but this England campaign feels a little more like the France 2007 RWC one to me.
Disjointed in the pool stages, team on the ropes, nobody giving them a chance...yet they are only one win away from a World Cup final.

They had no right to get as far as they did in 2007, but France expending themselves knocking out NZ, and England squeeking past Australia created the perfect storm to get them to the final where they ran us very close and almost had it if it wasn't for one tackle.
When it comes to knockout rugby, strange things have happened.

The scene is earily similar.

I won't feel comfortable until the match is over.

As said, that squad was loaded with grizzled veterans with proper leaders & characters across the squad. Many who had been there and done it four years earlier. Those OAP's could still give anyone a game in a tight attritional battle up front, which suited knockout rugby at the business end.

This England team lacks leadership, it has no pace, it has little power, skill levels are basic, the attack even more so, the set piece is hardly rock solid..... This would be infinitely more hilarious than the '07 banter run.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:19 pm**

Anymore of this and I'm going create a NZ vs SA final thread and 3rd place play off thread between Argentina vs England.

SA by 45 points.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:23 pm**

petej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:19 pm Anymore of this and I'm going create a NZ vs SA final thread and 3rd place play off thread between Argentina vs England.

SA by 45 points.

Argentina might surprise NZ. Hold off for now, Pete.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:26 pm**

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:44 am RWC head to head:

1999 QF - South Africa 44 - England 21

2007 Final - South Africa 15 - England 6

2019 Final - South Africa 32 - England 12

We've never beaten them at a RWC? Sounds right. Hopefully we can conjure up something from thin air next weekend.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:38 pm**

Hugo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:26 pm
Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:44 am RWC head to head:

1999 QF - South Africa 44 - England 21

2007 Final - South Africa 15 - England 6

2019 Final - South Africa 32 - England 12
We've never beaten them at a RWC? Sounds right. Hopefully we can conjure up something from thin air next weekend.

Beat us in 2003 25-6 in Perrhfontein

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:41 pm**

SA get anything less than a 30 point victory will be "I'm proud of the lads" victory for Borthwick and another 5 years.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:04 pm**

Jonno was the guy, England haven't had anyone like him since. There was a great description that Eddie Butler wrote about Jonno in a Tigers match, he described him marching through the middle of a maul with an opposition player in a headlock under each arm, all the while shouting at the ref over to his left.

Itoje could have been it, but he chose another route. Launchbury never struck me as the Jonno type, although he had all the skills to lead by example, but the injury dogs got him.

I think people are being harsh on Farrell, he can't do it all on his own, he doesn't have the quality around him that Wilkinson did. I include the coaching staff in that over the last half a dozen or so years.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:06 pm**

BnM wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:41 pm SA get anything less than a 30 point victory will be "I'm proud of the lads" victory for Borthwick and another 5 years.

So let's aim for that.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:01 pm**

The flat cap of humility is now the only headgear for an England supporter. To quote a (IIRC) Welsh poster on PR from many years ago, in the middle of a thread urging a poor Wales to stand up and be counted in a 6N game…WE ARE SHITHOUSE!!

It’ll obviously be a 30+ margin to SA. And probably 50+ once the England heads have dropped.

I look forward to the final. Both NZ and SA look very, very good now.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:15 pm**

Well, I'm hosting a table at the club lunch on Saturday. A colleague is a guest on another table and asked whether I'd be staying after the match to watch the semi-final. After checking the kick off time, I have decided to come home, as I will have been on it from midday and there is absolutely zero chance of me surviving if I have to keep on it during the three hours between the end of the match and semi-final kick off, never mind the next two odd hours watching it...

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:46 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:04 pm Jonno was the guy, England haven't had anyone like him since. There was a great description that Eddie Butler wrote about Jonno in a Tigers match, he described him marching through the middle of a maul with an opposition player in a headlock under each arm, all the while shouting at the ref over to his left.

Itoje could have been it, but he chose another route. Launchbury never struck me as the Jonno type, although he had all the skills to lead by example, but the injury dogs got him.

I think people are being harsh on Farrell, he can't do it all on his own, he doesn't have the quality around him that Wilkinson did. I include the coaching staff in that over the last half a dozen or so years.

It’s funny how some nations tend to be particularly blessed in one position (I remember talking to a Scottish fan ages ago who claimed scrum halves as yours). Locks is it for us. Jonno goes without saying but a depth chart of Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Launch etc was formidable. Jonno though is a one off, a genuinely world class player who was also a leader of men. You can count the number globally ever on one hand

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:48 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:46 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:04 pm Jonno was the guy, England haven't had anyone like him since. There was a great description that Eddie Butler wrote about Jonno in a Tigers match, he described him marching through the middle of a maul with an opposition player in a headlock under each arm, all the while shouting at the ref over to his left.

Itoje could have been it, but he chose another route. Launchbury never struck me as the Jonno type, although he had all the skills to lead by example, but the injury dogs got him.

I think people are being harsh on Farrell, he can't do it all on his own, he doesn't have the quality around him that Wilkinson did. I include the coaching staff in that over the last half a dozen or so years.
It’s funny how some nations tend to be particularly blessed in one position (I remember talking to a Scottish fan ages ago who claimed scrum halves as yours). Locks is it for us. Jonno goes without saying but a depth chart of Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Launch etc was formidable. Jonno though is a one off, a genuinely world class player who was also a leader of men. You can count the number globally ever on one hand

John Eales was another.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:24 pm**

St Ruchie, you get the impression he was probably head boy and rescued stricken ducklings and stuff as a youngster

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:35 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:46 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:04 pm Jonno was the guy, England haven't had anyone like him since. There was a great description that Eddie Butler wrote about Jonno in a Tigers match, he described him marching through the middle of a maul with an opposition player in a headlock under each arm, all the while shouting at the ref over to his left.

Itoje could have been it, but he chose another route. Launchbury never struck me as the Jonno type, although he had all the skills to lead by example, but the injury dogs got him.

I think people are being harsh on Farrell, he can't do it all on his own, he doesn't have the quality around him that Wilkinson did. I include the coaching staff in that over the last half a dozen or so years.
It’s funny how some nations tend to be particularly blessed in one position (I remember talking to a Scottish fan ages ago who claimed scrum halves as yours). Locks is it for us. Jonno goes without saying but a depth chart of Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Launch etc was formidable. Jonno though is a one off, a genuinely world class player who was also a leader of men. You can count the number globally ever on one hand

and it always tickles me that he only ended up as England skipper after Dallaglio got axed following that cocaine incident with one of the Sunday papers.

He'd captained the Lions in 97 but only got the England job in 99 despite having been in the setup for years.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:06 pm**

England in 2007 also surpised Australia and France by smashing breakdowns and having by an excellent front row.

No real rabbits to pull out of the hat this time...infact one of our weakest scrums.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:20 pm**

Hugo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:35 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:46 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:04 pm Jonno was the guy, England haven't had anyone like him since. There was a great description that Eddie Butler wrote about Jonno in a Tigers match, he described him marching through the middle of a maul with an opposition player in a headlock under each arm, all the while shouting at the ref over to his left.

Itoje could have been it, but he chose another route. Launchbury never struck me as the Jonno type, although he had all the skills to lead by example, but the injury dogs got him.

I think people are being harsh on Farrell, he can't do it all on his own, he doesn't have the quality around him that Wilkinson did. I include the coaching staff in that over the last half a dozen or so years.
It’s funny how some nations tend to be particularly blessed in one position (I remember talking to a Scottish fan ages ago who claimed scrum halves as yours). Locks is it for us. Jonno goes without saying but a depth chart of Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Launch etc was formidable. Jonno though is a one off, a genuinely world class player who was also a leader of men. You can count the number globally ever on one hand
and it always tickles me that he only ended up as England skipper after Dallaglio got axed following that cocaine incident with one of the Sunday papers.

He'd captained the Lions in 97 but only got the England job in 99 despite having been in the setup for years.

Tbf Dallaglio was an incredible on field leader.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:24 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:06 pm England in 2007 also surpised Australia and France by smashing breakdowns and having by an excellent front row.

No real rabbits to pull out of the hat this time...infact one of our weakest scrums.

Yeah, it's a different sport now too. There were far more conflicting styles but also more space and smaller players along with a little less on field structure.

The biggest change aside from the physicality is how regimented teams have become. Very few sides are allowed to think on their feet. Coaches have become control freaks par excellence. It's particularly bad in England but there's signs of it everywhere. And it permeates the entire structure, not just international level.

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:00 am**

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:12 am**

England pack 2019 final
8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Underhill 6 Tom Curry 5 Courtney Lawes 4 Maro Itoje 3 Kyle Sinckler 2 Jamie George 1 Mako Vunipola

England pack vs Fiji
8 Ben Earl, 7 Tom Curry, 6 Courtney Lawes, 5 Ollie Chessum, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Jamie George, 1 Ellis Genge

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:13 am**

Its a double SA vs England test on saturday. Cricket WC aswell.

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:21 am**

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:56 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:12 am England pack 2019 final
8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Underhill 6 Tom Curry 5 Courtney Lawes 4 Maro Itoje 3 Kyle Sinckler 2 Jamie George 1 Mako Vunipola

England pack vs Fiji
8 Ben Earl, 7 Tom Curry, 6 Courtney Lawes, 5 Ollie Chessum, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Jamie George, 1 Ellis Genge

Dan Cole played like 75 minutes of the final or something

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:01 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:56 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:12 am England pack 2019 final
8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Underhill 6 Tom Curry 5 Courtney Lawes 4 Maro Itoje 3 Kyle Sinckler 2 Jamie George 1 Mako Vunipola

England pack vs Fiji
8 Ben Earl, 7 Tom Curry, 6 Courtney Lawes, 5 Ollie Chessum, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Jamie George, 1 Ellis Genge
Dan Cole played like 75 minutes of the final or something

This time round, it'll be George to go down in the first 3 minutes.

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:06 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:56 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:12 am England pack 2019 final
8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Underhill 6 Tom Curry 5 Courtney Lawes 4 Maro Itoje 3 Kyle Sinckler 2 Jamie George 1 Mako Vunipola

England pack vs Fiji
8 Ben Earl, 7 Tom Curry, 6 Courtney Lawes, 5 Ollie Chessum, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Jamie George, 1 Ellis Genge
Dan Cole played like 75 minutes of the final or something

OK , the point is that Englands pack is more then capable of produce the same performance as against the All Blacks in 2019. The Springbok scrum will test them. I know Itoje is a very good lineout jumper and the best performer against the All Blacks. He will test our pack no doubt. I rate him very high, level with Eben.

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:16 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:06 am OK , the point is that Englands pack is more then capable of produce the same performance as against the All Blacks in 2019. The Springbok scrum will test them. I know Itoje is a very good lineout jumper and the best performer against the All Blacks. He will test our pack no doubt. I rate him very high, level with Eben.

Except not a single one of them is close to their 2019 form, not that ABs game form, just their form in general.

NPR

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