NPR

As you read down this thread you see bigger and bigger reaches.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:14 pm As you read down this thread you see bigger and bigger reaches.

Yup.

Some females:

Ann Wilson
Joan Jett
Stevie Nicks

Opposite genre:
Dolly Parton

This thread

Surely the likes of Robert Johnson, Son House,Howling Wolf , Big mama Thornton, Etta James etc etc are the icons from where most of modern music came from, many of their songs were recorded and made stars etc that we know.
But can probably track back even further than them even.

Johny Halliday

Dan54 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:17 am Surely the likes of Robert Johnson, Son House,Howling Wolf , Big mama Thornton, Etta James etc etc are the icons from where most of modern music came from, many of their songs were recorded and made stars etc that we know.
But can probably track back even further than them even.

This,

The Original Dixieland Jass Band "Livery Stable Blues" is reputedly the first jazz recording, released in 1917, Mamie Smith released "Crazy Blues" a year later.

Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davies, John Coltrane, "Bird", Dizzy Gillespie, Nina Simone... if an icon is "a person widely admired especially for having great influence or significance in a particular sphere", then those are just some of the people who have had great influence on blues and jazz and so on to rock and popular music.

There is no doubting Elvis' status as an icon, but it was black music he was performing when he broke through, and he was so "shocking" because he was performing it the way it was performed in the bars and clubs around black areas.

I have done a "Blues Birthdays" thread on a couple of boards now - I post a song from an artist every day on their birthday for a full year, quite simple really. I may replicate it here, it's a big commitment though, you have to go through several songs to get the best ones

Frank Zappa

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:15 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:17 am Surely the likes of Robert Johnson, Son House,Howling Wolf , Big mama Thornton, Etta James etc etc are the icons from where most of modern music came from, many of their songs were recorded and made stars etc that we know.
But can probably track back even further than them even.

This,

The Original Dixieland Jass Band "Livery Stable Blues" is reputedly the first jazz recording, released in 1917, Mamie Smith released "Crazy Blues" a year later.

Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davies, John Coltrane, "Bird", Dizzy Gillespie, Nina Simone... if an icon is "a person widely admired especially for having great influence or significance in a particular sphere", then those are just some of the people who have had great influence on blues and jazz and so on to rock and popular music.

There is no doubting Elvis' status as an icon, but it was black music he was performing when he broke through, and he was so "shocking" because he was performing it the way it was performed in the bars and clubs around black areas.

I have done a "Blues Birthdays" thread on a couple of boards now - I post a song from an artist every day on their birthday for a full year, quite simple really. I may replicate it here, it's a big commitment though, you have to go through several songs to get the best ones

Musical icons are generally held to have achieved a sort of universal acclaim... something a lot greater then the adoration of a smallish group of specifically interested individuals...

those of us who have an interest or passion for music will be familiar with the artists named here. Unfortunately, a vast majority will not.

A substantial slice of this thread has been filled with various posters trying to claim iconic status for artists that just don't cut the mustard. You can't manufacture iconic status out of your own personal fetish. Naming artists who would barely rate a glance of familiarity from the majority as icons is...

sad.

Some of these names could fairly be described as legends of popular, modern music. Iconic is, I think, a step too far.

Louis Armstrong

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:44 am Louis Armstrong

I remember the day he died... I'd come in from school and mum had the radio on, it was covered on the news. I distinctly remember her telling me to remind her to tell my father when he got home.

Tom Petty you heathen motherfuckers.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:48 am

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:44 am Louis Armstrong

I remember the day he died... I'd come in from school and mum had the radio on, it was covered on the news. I distinctly remember her telling me to remind her to tell my father when he got home.

Dan's list of blues and jazz artists got me thinking about who most people would recognise today. Armstrong is definitely one. I reckon Nina Simone would also qualify on a whole raft of levels, and everyone would recognise Aretha Franklin. If we're talking blues I reckon BB King would be the most ubiquitous name.

or Bruce Springsteen

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:59 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:48 am

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:44 am Louis Armstrong

I remember the day he died... I'd come in from school and mum had the radio on, it was covered on the news. I distinctly remember her telling me to remind her to tell my father when he got home.

Dan's list of blues and jazz artists got me thinking about who most people would recognise today. Armstrong is definitely one. I reckon Nina Simone would also qualify on a whole raft of levels, and everyone would recognise Aretha Franklin. If we're talking blues I reckon BB King would be the most ubiquitous name.

Yeah, I was thinking early in the thread about possible female artists and those two stand out. I'd go with Robert Johnson for the blues myself, it's always a personal taste thing but to me he kinda set the template.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:57 am Tom Petty you heathen motherfuckers.

I'm a massive fan and still feel sad about his passing...

but icon? Nah... he and Springsteen belong to that incredible tradition of American songwriting and they are legends within that...

but iconic? How did they define their genre?

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:06 am

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:59 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:48 am

I remember the day he died... I'd come in from school and mum had the radio on, it was covered on the news. I distinctly remember her telling me to remind her to tell my father when he got home.

Dan's list of blues and jazz artists got me thinking about who most people would recognise today. Armstrong is definitely one. I reckon Nina Simone would also qualify on a whole raft of levels, and everyone would recognise Aretha Franklin. If we're talking blues I reckon BB King would be the most ubiquitous name.

Yeah, I was thinking early in the thread about possible female artists and those two stand out. I'd go with Robert Johnson for the blues myself, it's always a personal taste thing but to me he kinda set the template.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:57 am Tom Petty you heathen motherfuckers.

I'm a massive fan and still feel sad about his passing...

but icon? Nah... he and Springsteen belong to that incredible tradition of American songwriting and they are legends within that...

but iconic? How did they define their genre?

Blues was my first music love, Robert Johnson, Howlin' Wolf, Little Richard, Bessie Smith, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker

I measure it by the fact that music is completely subjective and this topic is stupid,

for example...

Taylor Swift - 14 grammys
Dianna Ross - 0 grammys

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:43 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:15 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:17 am Surely the likes of Robert Johnson, Son House,Howling Wolf , Big mama Thornton, Etta James etc etc are the icons from where most of modern music came from, many of their songs were recorded and made stars etc that we know.
But can probably track back even further than them even.

This,

The Original Dixieland Jass Band "Livery Stable Blues" is reputedly the first jazz recording, released in 1917, Mamie Smith released "Crazy Blues" a year later.

Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davies, John Coltrane, "Bird", Dizzy Gillespie, Nina Simone... if an icon is "a person widely admired especially for having great influence or significance in a particular sphere", then those are just some of the people who have had great influence on blues and jazz and so on to rock and popular music.

There is no doubting Elvis' status as an icon, but it was black music he was performing when he broke through, and he was so "shocking" because he was performing it the way it was performed in the bars and clubs around black areas.

I have done a "Blues Birthdays" thread on a couple of boards now - I post a song from an artist every day on their birthday for a full year, quite simple really. I may replicate it here, it's a big commitment though, you have to go through several songs to get the best ones

Musical icons are generally held to have achieved a sort of universal acclaim... something a lot greater then the adoration of a smallish group of specifically interested individuals...

those of us who have an interest or passion for music will be familiar with the artists named here. Unfortunately, a vast majority will not.

A substantial slice of this thread has been filled with various posters trying to claim iconic status for artists that just don't cut the mustard. You can't manufacture iconic status out of your own personal fetish. Naming artists who would barely rate a glance of familiarity from the majority as icons is...

sad.

Some of these names could fairly be described as legends of popular, modern music. Iconic is, I think, a step too far.

You gave me pause for thought. Music is my thing, more so even than rugby, which is the last of many sports that I followed religiously.

If ubiquitous recognition is the key, then "icon" status is very rare - Elvis would qualify, Muhammad Ali, John Lennon got into trouble for suggesting the Beatles were as famous as Jesus. The Che image on T-shirts is surely iconic?

Ricky Martin had huge success and following in Latin America, he'd probably be dismissed here whilst hundreds of millions of people would insist that he was an icon.

Madonna is the biggest worldwide selling female artist of all time. Taylor Swift is the biggest selling Western artist in China, governments of several countries are practically begging her to play in their cities because of the economic boost - the Super Bowl advertising was turned on its head this year, just because she was expected to be there to watch her boyfriend play

Going back to music being my thing, I do tend to get lost in it, the names I mentioned were ones that I thought had crossed over from being "big" in jazz to being known beyond jazz and blues fans - "How the hell can someone not have heard of Art Blakey?" is a ridiculous statement, but I've been known to utter the same for artists with a far lower profile than him.

I really like Springsteen when he strips it back, I get turned off a little when he goes all Jim Steinman-esque

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:32 am I really like Springsteen when he strips it back, I get turned off a little when he goes all Jim Steinman-esque

Ah...

Jim Steinman. Now, there's an icon

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:15 am I have done a "Blues Birthdays" thread on a couple of boards now - I post a song from an artist every day on their birthday for a full year, quite simple really. I may replicate it here, it's a big commitment though, you have to go through several songs to get the best ones

That sounds awesome dude! Fully recognising that it would indeed be a huge amount of work, so by all means dont' do it, but if you did you'd find at least one appreciative soul

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:17 am I measure it by the fact that music is completely subjective and this topic is stupid,

for example...

Taylor Swift - 14 grammys
Dianna Ross - 0 grammys

Indeed. I feel much of the scoffing is down to subjective musical taste rather than objective viewing of the criteria as laid out in the OP*

I find Coldplay's older stuff palettable and their newer stuff downright fucking awful, but fact is they have played out stadiums across the globe for the best part of two decades and Chris Martin and his crazy (ex?) wife have most certainly had their impacts outside of music


* "Defining a Genre" was not part of those criteria, which would definitely narrow down the list. I'll let you guys argue whether Madness or The Specials should take their place alongside Elvis.

Speaking of, The Chieftans definitely deserve to be part of the big boy list.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:35 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:32 am I really like Springsteen when he strips it back, I get turned off a little when he goes all Jim Steinman-esque

Ah...

Jim Steinman. Now, there's an icon

I was once holed up in a house with a broken ankle so had little to do for several days. One of the housemates had the Bat of Hell album and I had never actually listen to it. I found myself liking it.

This was in 1984 and he also had the first release from some guitar slinger from Texas - that was the first time I heard Texas Flood, I could not believe my ears.

Pavarotti should qualify

and Patti Smith

Monk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:38 pm Pavarotti should qualify

and Patti Smith

If you want to talk about classical music the only true standouts, who are head and shoulders above everyone else, are Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Anyone else you mention is significantly behind those three. I'll die on this hill.

Unbelievable. Bowie? Freddie? Fucking Bono???

It's Elvis, you muppets! He started off the whole superstar musician thing and still sold out every concert 30 years later as a fat slob!
57 albums, more Billboard 200 singles than anyone else and they've even released 24 more hit songs after he died. And that's important: Icons die too soon in (often) weird circumstances, not of liver cancer in their living-room in their 80s.

Elvis was also a prolific movie star, so he transcended music to enter popular culture at all levels. He was a massive sex symbol. There's Graceland, which is something only the very biggest icons represent.
Is there a Bowie Land? Madonna World?

From Beijing to Beirut, Santiago to Soweto - everyone knows Elvis. His image is instantly recognisable by nearly everyone older than 8 years old. He will live forever as the greatest performer.
And I'm not even his biggest fan.

The icons list is as follows:

Elvis
Daylight
Moonlight
Coca Cola
Everyone else

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:24 pm Unbelievable. Bowie? Freddie? Fucking Bono???

It's Elvis, you muppets! He started off the whole superstar musician thing and still sold out every concert 30 years later as a fat slob!
57 albums, more Billboard 200 singles than anyone else and they've even released 24 more hit songs after he died. And that's important: Icons die too soon in (often) weird circumstances, not of liver cancer in their living-room in their 80s.

Elvis was also a prolific movie star, so he transcended music to enter popular culture at all levels. He was a massive sex symbol. There's Graceland, which is something only the very biggest icons represent.
Is there a Bowie Land? Madonna World? :?:

From Beijing to Beirut, Santiago to Soweto - everyone knows Elvis. His image is instantly recognisable by nearly everyone older than 8 years old. He will live forever as the greatest performer.
And I'm not even his biggest fan.

The icons list is as follows:

Elvis
Daylight
Moonlight
Coca Cola
Everyone else

There is Dollywood

TedMaul wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:20 pmIan Curtis

Good call. Massively influential artist and group.

and what about Sinatra?

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:02 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:24 pm Unbelievable. Bowie? Freddie? Fucking Bono???

It's Elvis, you muppets! He started off the whole superstar musician thing and still sold out every concert 30 years later as a fat slob!
57 albums, more Billboard 200 singles than anyone else and they've even released 24 more hit songs after he died. And that's important: Icons die too soon in (often) weird circumstances, not of liver cancer in their living-room in their 80s.

Elvis was also a prolific movie star, so he transcended music to enter popular culture at all levels. He was a massive sex symbol. There's Graceland, which is something only the very biggest icons represent.
Is there a Bowie Land? Madonna World? :?:

From Beijing to Beirut, Santiago to Soweto - everyone knows Elvis. His image is instantly recognisable by nearly everyone older than 8 years old. He will live forever as the greatest performer.
And I'm not even his biggest fan.

The icons list is as follows:

Elvis
Daylight
Moonlight
Coca Cola
Everyone else

There is Dollywood

Which was actually built as a tourist attraction - Graceland was his home which was then leveraged the shit out of by his estate. No different to Neverland, Paisley Park or Andrew Lloyd Weber's Tipperary estate for that matter!

Of all the criteria spouted on this thread that one has to be the most irrelevant. Sure it was functional, but primarily just a monument to his ego!

Not doubting Elvis's iconic status one iota, but similarly to The Beatles, some people just seem to adopt their hero's legacy/prestige/ego as some sort of damsel that must be defended at all costs - even when not under attack!

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:15 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:17 am Surely the likes of Robert Johnson, Son House,Howling Wolf , Big mama Thornton, Etta James etc etc are the icons from where most of modern music came from, many of their songs were recorded and made stars etc that we know.
But can probably track back even further than them even.

This,

The Original Dixieland Jass Band "Livery Stable Blues" is reputedly the first jazz recording, released in 1917, Mamie Smith released "Crazy Blues" a year later.

Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davies, John Coltrane, "Bird", Dizzy Gillespie, Nina Simone... if an icon is "a person widely admired especially for having great influence or significance in a particular sphere", then those are just some of the people who have had great influence on blues and jazz and so on to rock and popular music.

There is no doubting Elvis' status as an icon, but it was black music he was performing when he broke through, and he was so "shocking" because he was performing it the way it was performed in the bars and clubs around black areas.

I have done a "Blues Birthdays" thread on a couple of boards now - I post a song from an artist every day on their birthday for a full year, quite simple really. I may replicate it here, it's a big commitment though, you have to go through several songs to get the best ones

Yes please mate on the Blues Birthdays, I admit to being a fan,and will always enjoy a reminder about the Blues artists. There is a so many that I end up just switch onto for a few weeks, drift to others etc, depending whether I wanting to listen to their voices, guitars, piano etc etc. One week I might be into Memphis Slim etc, next Mts will walk in and it's say Sippie Wallace, Lonne Johnson, Big Mama Thornton (still the only version of Hound Dog I enjoy), or maybe Lightning Hopkins etc.

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:02 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:24 pm Unbelievable. Bowie? Freddie? Fucking Bono???

It's Elvis, you muppets! He started off the whole superstar musician thing and still sold out every concert 30 years later as a fat slob!
57 albums, more Billboard 200 singles than anyone else and they've even released 24 more hit songs after he died. And that's important: Icons die too soon in (often) weird circumstances, not of liver cancer in their living-room in their 80s.

Elvis was also a prolific movie star, so he transcended music to enter popular culture at all levels. He was a massive sex symbol. There's Graceland, which is something only the very biggest icons represent.
Is there a Bowie Land? Madonna World? :?:

From Beijing to Beirut, Santiago to Soweto - everyone knows Elvis. His image is instantly recognisable by nearly everyone older than 8 years old. He will live forever as the greatest performer.
And I'm not even his biggest fan.

The icons list is as follows:

Elvis
Daylight
Moonlight
Coca Cola
Everyone else

There is Dollywood

She’s bigger than Bono. And Ian Curtis who most wouldn’t recognise in a line of meth heads.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:59 pm

Monk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:38 pm Pavarotti should qualify

and Patti Smith

If you want to talk about classical music the only true standouts, who are head and shoulders above everyone else, are Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Anyone else you mention is significantly behind those three. I'll die on this hill.

Vivaldi surely.

Johann Strauss.

Tchaikovsky.

To name a few.

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:07 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:59 pm

Monk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:38 pm Pavarotti should qualify

and Patti Smith

If you want to talk about classical music the only true standouts, who are head and shoulders above everyone else, are Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Anyone else you mention is significantly behind those three. I'll die on this hill.

Vivaldi surely.

Johann Strauss.

Tchaikovsky.

To name a few.

No

God no

And no

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:59 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:48 am

Brazil wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:44 am Louis Armstrong

I remember the day he died... I'd come in from school and mum had the radio on, it was covered on the news. I distinctly remember her telling me to remind her to tell my father when he got home.

Dan's list of blues and jazz artists got me thinking about who most people would recognise today. Armstrong is definitely one. I reckon Nina Simone would also qualify on a whole raft of levels, and everyone would recognise Aretha Franklin. If we're talking blues I reckon BB King would be the most ubiquitous name.

I actually think Muddy Waters would be pretty high up by people who don't really follow the blues too, hasn't everyone heard a band at sometime thinking they were a blues band because they did 'Got My Mojo Working'? But you right many would know a lot of their songs that have been covered etc, but without knowing where the music came from

IE Bloody Led Zeppelin!!!

Elvis had a dozen or more movies (several of which, perhaps sadly, I enjoy watching because they're dumb, colourful fun ), people referencing him when someone has "left the building" or by saying "Thank ya very much" in his manner, and people still pay tribute with festivals like this annually to this day ...






Bowie has Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence, Labyrinth, and The Linguini Incident and this guy...




No comparison

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 1:08 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:07 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:59 pm

If you want to talk about classical music the only true standouts, who are head and shoulders above everyone else, are Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Anyone else you mention is significantly behind those three. I'll die on this hill.

Vivaldi surely.

Johann Strauss.

Tchaikovsky.

To name a few.

No

God no

And no

How about Liszt-o-mania?

Niegs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:57 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 1:08 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:07 pm


Vivaldi surely.

Johann Strauss.

Tchaikovsky.

To name a few.

No

God no

And no

How about Liszt-o-mania?

Christ no.

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:13 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:07 pm For Iconic - are we talking about a figure head of their genre?

If So:
David Hasslehoff

Which genre is he the figure head of?


Shitty music? If so, Bieber might want a word with you.

Hasselhoff literally has an iconic image of him singing on the Berlin Wall as it came down. That's pretty iconic right?

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:17 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:13 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:07 pm For Iconic - are we talking about a figure head of their genre?

If So:
David Hasslehoff

Which genre is he the figure head of?


Shitty music? If so, Bieber might want a word with you.

Hasselhoff literally has an iconic image of him singing on the Berlin Wall as it came down. That's pretty iconic right?

He honestly believes it was his song looking for freedom that made the people of the GDR start their peaceful revolution to bring down the wall. He surely has to be an icon. Music and politics.