NPR

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:44 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:00 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:02 am

Manu isn't great, but Slade is all over the place with what's happening (or not happening) inside and outside of him. And whilst Manu isn't good he'd be replacing a statue stuck in fresh laid cement, so maybe it changes how we're not very good, but either way we're not very good

If Manu comes in, it'll be for Dingwall so we get him and Slade combining their defensive deficiencies.

The statue stuck in cement is Dingwall. And whilst Slade isn't brilliant he is being left with deficiencies on his inside and outside, he could play well and leave holes to the left and right into which the famed 600 might ride, and we don't have any cannons

Never seen him like that for Saints.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:26 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:44 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:00 pm

If Manu comes in, it'll be for Dingwall so we get him and Slade combining their defensive deficiencies.

The statue stuck in cement is Dingwall. And whilst Slade isn't brilliant he is being left with deficiencies on his inside and outside, he could play well and leave holes to the left and right into which the famed 600 might ride, and we don't have any cannons

Never seen him like that for Saints.

It's a lower level. I suppose you could say with all the movement around him at Saints it gives him more chance to act as a pivot the team moves around, but in the end he needs to be a hell of a rugby player to make it work at test level with his lack of physical gifts.

I don't know why Borthwick thinks he can work at test level, I still less understand why he thinks it can work in a team that plays off 3-8 second rucks, it's absurd. Yes determination/attitude isn't nothing, but it also looks far from enough.

Maybe we start to play off 2 second rucks and whilst he's never fleet of foot he delivers throughout the game, a consistent energy level rather than exploding into the game as Manu might have done once upon a time.

I’m far from wowed by Dingwall at international level, but it’s a little early to totally write him off.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 am Kinghorn being fit should probably see him start, but Darcy Graham's injury means we'll probably see Steyn on the wing, though Rowe has done well. Paterson will be back, probably in the summer. Another point about Kinghorn is whether or not it means Healy drops off the bench, allowing a 6:2 split.

With this in mind I'd be tempted to have either Ritchie and Bradbury on the pine, or Fagerson and Bradbury there, with the other one starting, Dempsey and Darge will both start. Other than that, I expect the same team as faced France, oh and WP Nel will probably be replacement TH.

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

The last 5 games have been one score/no score difference games and required some pretty decent Scottish tries to pick up wins/draw.

It is going to be a close game.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 am Kinghorn being fit should probably see him start, but Darcy Graham's injury means we'll probably see Steyn on the wing, though Rowe has done well. Paterson will be back, probably in the summer. Another point about Kinghorn is whether or not it means Healy drops off the bench, allowing a 6:2 split.

With this in mind I'd be tempted to have either Ritchie and Bradbury on the pine, or Fagerson and Bradbury there, with the other one starting, Dempsey and Darge will both start. Other than that, I expect the same team as faced France, oh and WP Nel will probably be replacement TH.

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

What's happened to Grey Jnr?

Woddy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:00 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 am Kinghorn being fit should probably see him start, but Darcy Graham's injury means we'll probably see Steyn on the wing, though Rowe has done well. Paterson will be back, probably in the summer. Another point about Kinghorn is whether or not it means Healy drops off the bench, allowing a 6:2 split.

With this in mind I'd be tempted to have either Ritchie and Bradbury on the pine, or Fagerson and Bradbury there, with the other one starting, Dempsey and Darge will both start. Other than that, I expect the same team as faced France, oh and WP Nel will probably be replacement TH.

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

What's happened to Grey Jnr?

Gray suffered a knee injury in the Euro semi-final against La Rochelle last season and hasn't played since, he was supposed to be playing by now, but I don't think he has

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 am Kinghorn being fit should probably see him start, but Darcy Graham's injury means we'll probably see Steyn on the wing, though Rowe has done well. Paterson will be back, probably in the summer. Another point about Kinghorn is whether or not it means Healy drops off the bench, allowing a 6:2 split.

With this in mind I'd be tempted to have either Ritchie and Bradbury on the pine, or Fagerson and Bradbury there, with the other one starting, Dempsey and Darge will both start. Other than that, I expect the same team as faced France, oh and WP Nel will probably be replacement TH.

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:33 am I’m far from wowed by Dingwall at international level, but it’s a little early to totally write him off.

The danger in not doing so is one wastes still more caps and one gets still more 5/10 performances leading to worse results

One of the key ingredients for a successful coach is getting those early calls right more often than not. Not spending 10, 15 even 20 caps pissing into the wing

Earls was always worth going back to when he didn't work out initially because there was something there, and actually one could even make the claim for Dombrandt, with Dingwall it's harder to see what the payoff even could be, but it is possible, indeed one hopes for him he does push ever onward

The Times predicting Lawrence likely to come straight into the 12 shirt, but that it's not decided yet.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 am Kinghorn being fit should probably see him start, but Darcy Graham's injury means we'll probably see Steyn on the wing, though Rowe has done well. Paterson will be back, probably in the summer. Another point about Kinghorn is whether or not it means Healy drops off the bench, allowing a 6:2 split.

With this in mind I'd be tempted to have either Ritchie and Bradbury on the pine, or Fagerson and Bradbury there, with the other one starting, Dempsey and Darge will both start. Other than that, I expect the same team as faced France, oh and WP Nel will probably be replacement TH.

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:01 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

You seem to be questioning my ability as de facto national selector

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:10 am

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:01 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:06 pm

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

You seem to be questioning my ability as de facto national selector

I reckon the NPR selection panel would do a good job!

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:11 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:10 am

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:01 am

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

You seem to be questioning my ability as de facto national selector

I reckon the NPR selection panel would do a good job!

Agreed.

I think that fielding endless box kicks from their 9 at wing is a slightly different proposition from fielding open play kicks from 15 and perhaps Steyn's height (I think he is taller) maybe edges it for him. I'm pretty easy which one starts really.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:10 am

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:01 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:06 pm

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

You seem to be questioning my ability as de facto national selector

Bloody blazers

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:14 am

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:11 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:10 am

You seem to be questioning my ability as de facto national selector

I reckon the NPR selection panel would do a good job!

Agreed.

I think that fielding endless box kicks from their 9 at wing is a slightly different proposition from fielding open play kicks from 15 and perhaps Steyn's height (I think he is taller) maybe edges it for him. I'm pretty easy which one starts really.

I'd prefer Rowes speed over Steyn and his defensive frailties.

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:01 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

Scotland team to face England at Scottish Gas Murrayfield in the Guinness Men’s Six Nations on Saturday 24 February, kick-off 4.45pm – live on BBC One (caps in brackets):

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (50)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (16)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (45)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (24)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (36)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (77)
9. Ben White – Toulon (20)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (28)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (42)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (64)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (69)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (35)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (47)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (16)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (17)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (14)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (2)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (1)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (32)
20. Andy Christie – Saracens (5)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (27)
22. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (11)

Surprised Millar-Mills is ahead of Nel, but apart from that not a lot to argue with. Except for a long never-ending back row discussion.

Is fagerson injured?

Co-captain? Fuck off with that, pick one and be done with it.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:23 pm Is fagerson injured?

Might be a 'Christie covers all three positions' thing, but that's not really necessary with Ritchie, Darge, Dempsey as your starting lineup. I'd rather have had Fagerson or Bradbury on the bench for a bit of oomph (not that I'm saying Christie can't oomph)

C T wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:41 am Really interesting game.

England have it in them (somewhere?) to very nearly beat South Africa, Scotland just don't.

But I do feel that this Scotland team (at the moment) are better than this England team (at the moment).

If we lost I think serious questions need to be asked about Toonie.

Don't mean that in a disrespectful way to England, but the loss will likely expose concerns that have been there for a while.

Scotland by 5.

That's a pretty good summation. Scotland's problems are in their head. Home advantage will get them over the line.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:36 pm

C T wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:41 am Really interesting game.

England have it in them (somewhere?) to very nearly beat South Africa, Scotland just don't.

But I do feel that this Scotland team (at the moment) are better than this England team (at the moment).

If we lost I think serious questions need to be asked about Toonie.

Don't mean that in a disrespectful way to England, but the loss will likely expose concerns that have been there for a while.

Scotland by 5.

That's a pretty good summation. Scotland's problems are in their head. Home advantage will get them over the line.

I've just messaged friends & family saying Scotland by 8.

In 48hrs I'll no doubt be England by 3.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:25 pm Co-captain? Fuck off with that, pick one and be done with it.

Amen

Assume they have to pick one of them to be able to talk to the ref, or are they both able to?

Didn't Leinster(?) have issues with that earlier in the season, or have I made that up?

Borthwick's only gone and dropped Steward. Didn't see that one coming

Starting
15. George Furbank
14. Tommy Freeman
13. Henry Slade
12. Ollie Lawrence
11. Elliot Daly
10. George Ford - vice captain
9. Danny Care
1. Ellis Genge - vice captain
2. Jamie George - captain
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje - vice captain
5. Ollie Chessum
6. Ethan Roots
7. Sam Underhill
8. Ben Earl

Replacements
16. Theo Dan
17. Joe Marler
18. Will Stuart
19. George Martin
20. Chandler Cunningham-South
21. Ben Spencer
22. Fin Smith
23. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso

15. George Furbank

14. Tommy Freeman

13. Henry Slade

12. Ollie Lawrence

11. Elliot Daly

10. George Ford - vice captain

9. Danny Care

1. Ellis Genge - vice captain

2. Jamie George - captain

3. Dan Cole

4. Maro Itoje - vice captain

5. Ollie Chessum

6. Ethan Roots

7. Sam Underhill

8. Ben Earl

Replacements

16. Theo Dan

17. Joe Marler

18. Will Stuart

19. George Martin

20. Chandler Cunningham-South

21. Ben Spencer

22. Fin Smith

23. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -edinburgh

Lawrence indeed at 12

Furbank at 15.

Half the fecking team as co/vice-captains.

Hahahahahaha fucking hell. I thought Toony was kicking the cunt of the capts. You lot have a whole officers mess.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:00 pm Assume they have to pick one of them to be able to talk to the ref, or are they both able to?

Didn't Leinster(?) have issues with that earlier in the season, or have I made that up?

Think they both spoke to Berry last game.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:11 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:00 pm Assume they have to pick one of them to be able to talk to the ref, or are they both able to?

Didn't Leinster(?) have issues with that earlier in the season, or have I made that up?

Think they both spoke to Berry last game.

Interesting, cheers. Feels like something that could become a bit of an arms race then as coaches look for any possible edge.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:11 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:00 pm Assume they have to pick one of them to be able to talk to the ref, or are they both able to?

Didn't Leinster(?) have issues with that earlier in the season, or have I made that up?

Think they both spoke to Berry last game.

I think it has to be agreed with the ref before the game. If the ref decides he only wants to talk to one person, then that's it.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:11 pm Hahahahahaha fucking hell. I thought Toony was kicking the cunt of the capts. You lot have a whole officers mess.

I can sort of see why you'd look to have one of the forwards and one of the backs to be able to speak to the ref, to query/clarify on different facets of the game.

We've got the loose-head, hooker and loose-head lock as vice-captains. At scrum-time, two of them grabbing each other's shirts and the other sticking his head between their arses. Not sure what that brings.

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:01 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:38 pm

If Kinghorn is back I really hope it is Rowe on the wing. Steyn is indecisive in defence and isn't as good a runner as Rowe. Rowe has earned consideration as 1st back up to the Van Der Graham combo through his good play over the last two games.

I don't think we have the flexibility to go 6/2 due to injuries as there is no spare lock who is good enough to provide additional back row cover and vice versa. With Skinner needed as the main lock back up and Cummings starting we lose any real benefit of the 6/2 for us IMO as they are the lock/back row players.

Whilst I agree, I think Steyn might get the nod due to the millions of kicks coming his way

Are we sure that Steyn is better in the air than the guy the coach liked as Kinghorn's deputy?

Yeah I would say so. Tommy Seymour is the only Glasgow winger I've seen who was better in the air than Steyn.

The form full back in the Prem finally gets a run. And thankfully no Tuilagi
15. George Furbank
14. Tommy Freeman
13. Henry Slade
12. Ollie Lawrence
11. Elliot Daly
10. George Ford - vice captain
9. Danny Care
1. Ellis Genge - vice captain
2. Jamie George - captain
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje - vice captain
5. Ollie Chessum
6. Ethan Roots
7. Sam Underhill
8. Ben Earl

Replacements
16. Theo Dan
17. Joe Marler
18. Will Stuart
19. George Martin
20. Chandler Cunningham-South
21. Ben Spencer
22. Fin Smith
23. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso

Daly though DALY!!! FFS he must have compromising pictures of Boredthick

Can someone post the England team please

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:00 pm Daly though DALY!!! FFS he must have compromising pictures of Boredthick

As a Scottish fan I just don't get that. To my eye Louis Lynagh would be a better option on the wing and you discarded him. England has a solid half dozen options who I would put above Daly as a winger.

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:05 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:00 pm Daly though DALY!!! FFS he must have compromising pictures of Boredthick

As a Scottish fan I just don't get that. To my eye Louis Lynagh would be a better option on the wing and you discarded him. England has a solid half dozen options who I would put above Daly as a winger.

A winger on the wing? Don't be crazy.

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:05 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:00 pm Daly though DALY!!! FFS he must have compromising pictures of Boredthick

As a Scottish fan I just don't get that. To my eye Louis Lynagh would be a better option on the wing and you discarded him. England has a solid half dozen options who I would put above Daly as a winger.

I know Lynagh had a particularly eye-catching Champions Cup game recently, but it's not like he's been playing that well week in week out. It's not just inherent conservatism behind his exclusion from the squad. We definitely do have better options than present day Daly for the wing, though.


Important to remember that Daly has a massive left boot, which is what matters most to a Borthwick and Wigglesworth coaching team.