NPR

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:23 am Given the alacrity with which (we are told) Russia was attempting to hack into UK universities developing vaccines, and their long history of relying on espionage rather than innovation in science and technology, part of me wonders if the Russian vaccine is in fact a modified version of the Oxford (or any other) vaccine.

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:53 am Europeans and Americans wouldn't accept a Russian vaccine even if they did believe it was safe, as they see countries like Russia as being 'under' them. Same for a Chinese vaccine. Not to throw the R-word around, but it's always under the surface in this type of thing.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:23 am Given the alacrity with which (we are told) Russia was attempting to hack into UK universities developing vaccines, and their long history of relying on espionage rather than innovation in science and technology, part of me wonders if the Russian vaccine is in fact a modified version of the Oxford (or any other) vaccine.

Given Russia's proven, prior scientific knowledge and abilities in the space race and in other areas of modern science, I would be surprised if they wanted to "steal" anything from a developing science country like the UK.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:05 am

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:23 am Given the alacrity with which (we are told) Russia was attempting to hack into UK universities developing vaccines, and their long history of relying on espionage rather than innovation in science and technology, part of me wonders if the Russian vaccine is in fact a modified version of the Oxford (or any other) vaccine.

Given Russia's proven, prior scientific knowledge and abilities in the space race and in other areas of modern science, I would be surprised if they wanted to "steal" anything from a developing science country like the UK.

You don't need to buy into hype to acknowledge that the UK has a tremendous university research base, one of the best in the world (only behind the USA). Where we suck ass is taking fundamental research into use in industry or wider society. The UK is pretty awful at that. Pharma is a bit of an exception though, it's one of the few areas where we regularly translate basic research into commercial use.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am In terms of scientific ability, I would rank as follows:
1. USA
2. Russia
3. China
4. Germany
5. France
6. South Africa


20. Boris Johnson

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am In terms of scientific ability, I would rank as follows:
1. USA
2. Russia
3. China
4. Germany
5. France
6. South Africa


20. Boris Johnson

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:42 am In the person of Elon Musk, SA will be pushing for top honours sooner rather than later. We have already surpassed developing scientific countries like the UK.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:42 am In the person of Elon Musk, SA will be pushing for top honours sooner rather than later. We have already surpassed developing scientific countries like the UK.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:05 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:42 am In the person of Elon Musk, SA will be pushing for top honours sooner rather than later. We have already surpassed developing scientific countries like the UK.

The worlds best universities,,......

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:43 pm Which South African university did Musk go to again?

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:48 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:43 pm Which South African university did Musk go to again?

He was only 5 months at University Pretoria, then kicked out for being to dumb to study at an SA university.

Meanwhile the Moscow-based Association of Clinical Trials Organizations (Acto), which represents the world's top drug companies in Russia, urged the health ministry to postpone approval until after phase-three trials.

Acto executive director Svetlana Zavidova told the Russian MedPortal site that a decision on mass vaccination had been carried out after combined first- and second-phase tests on 76 people, and that it was impossible to confirm the efficacy of a drug on this basis.

Do Russian companies adhere to the same level of standards that multinationals follow?

I am afraid that this is not always the case, unfortunately. It is not a problem of clinical trials, but rather a problem of drug registration. Currently, we have a double standard for Russian and foreign players, in terms of registration. If we compare what is necessary for a registration dossier, the requirements for Russian companies are far more lax. International companies must present the results of international trials, a plethora of statistics, and so on. Local manufacturers need only present the results of a limited number of Russian clinical trials, on a limited population set.
.
What is your final message to the international readers of Pharmaceutical Executive?

In spite of any challenges, we believe in Russia!

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:34 am

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am In terms of scientific ability, I would rank as follows:
1. USA
2. Russia
3. China
4. Germany
5. France
6. South Africa


20. Boris Johnson

Indisputable proof that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:48 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:43 pm Which South African university did Musk go to again?

He was only 5 months at University Pretoria, then kicked out for being to dumb to study at an SA university.

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:04 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:48 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:43 pm Which South African university did Musk go to again?

He was only 5 months at University Pretoria, then kicked out for being to dumb to study at an SA university.

You are such a valuable addition to the forum.

Jesus Christ, such an interesting discussion completely derailed by this troll.

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:34 am

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am In terms of scientific ability, I would rank as follows:
1. USA
2. Russia
3. China
4. Germany
5. France
6. South Africa


20. Boris Johnson

Indisputable proof that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

This. No objective metric exists that can support this claim.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:53 pm

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:34 am

Indisputable proof that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

This. No objective metric exists that can support this claim.

I reckon the top 5 as listed is pretty accurate. Why would you think otherwise? Maybe, Japan should be there in place of France.

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:53 pm

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:01 pm

This. No objective metric exists that can support this claim.

I reckon the top 5 as listed is pretty accurate. Why would you think otherwise? Maybe, Japan should be there in place of France.

I was going to say that nobody could possibly be this stupid, but then I didn't "benefit" from a South African University education.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 pm

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:53 pm

I reckon the top 5 as listed is pretty accurate. Why would you think otherwise? Maybe, Japan should be there in place of France.

I was going to say that nobody could possibly be this stupid, but then I didn't "benefit" from a South African University education.

Wow, that hurts deeply. What is your top 5 or are you too much of a softcock to give your own list instead of throwing insults (a sign of your own insecurities and maybe inferior education)?

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 pm

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:53 pm

I reckon the top 5 as listed is pretty accurate. Why would you think otherwise? Maybe, Japan should be there in place of France.

I was going to say that nobody could possibly be this stupid, but then I didn't "benefit" from a South African University education.

Wow, that hurts deeply. What is your top 5 or are you too much of a softcock to give your own list instead of throwing insults (a sign of your own insecurities and maybe inferior education)?

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:09 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 pm

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 pm

I was going to say that nobody could possibly be this stupid, but then I didn't "benefit" from a South African University education.

Wow, that hurts deeply. What is your top 5 or are you too much of a softcock to give your own list instead of throwing insults (a sign of your own insecurities and maybe inferior education)?

What value is there in me pulling a list out of my arse to compare with the list you have made up. Produce some support for your list or crawl back under your stone.

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:22 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 pm

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 pm

I was going to say that nobody could possibly be this stupid, but then I didn't "benefit" from a South African University education.

Wow, that hurts deeply. What is your top 5 or are you too much of a softcock to give your own list instead of throwing insults (a sign of your own insecurities and maybe inferior education)?

That’s not how it works cupcake.
You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.
What metric did you use to compile your “list”?

Nobel Prize winners? Registered patents from research? Papers published? Research PhD students? Research grant allocations?

Come now. Time to show your work.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:58 pm

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:09 pm What value is there in me pulling a list out of my arse to compare with the list you have made up. Produce some support for your list or crawl back under your stone.

You are just a sour puss because I didn't list the UK in the top 5. Which of those 5 top countries I've mentioned should be replaced by the UK (there, I've made it easy for you)? And name any other country that should be included in that top 5 instead, come on softcock.

MSG# wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:19 pm Country
1 US United States
2 CN China
3 GB United Kingdom
4 DE Germany
5 JP Japan
.

12 RU Russian Federation
.
35 ZA South Africa
36 NZ New Zealand

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:26 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:58 pm

A6D6E6 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:09 pm What value is there in me pulling a list out of my arse to compare with the list you have made up. Produce some support for your list or crawl back under your stone.

You are just a sour puss because I didn't list the UK in the top 5. Which of those 5 top countries I've mentioned should be replaced by the UK (there, I've made it easy for you)? And name any other country that should be included in that top 5 instead, come on softcock.

No, you’re just doubling down on offering no reasoning or evidence. Your list is bullshit and you know it, because you won’t tell us why you think that, you just want someone else to put something up so you can argue with it.

Quade wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:00 pm Nature Index of Sciencyness:


United States of America (USA) 28722
China 19033
Germany 8959
United Kingdom (UK) 7803
Japan 5036
France 5067
Canada 3480
Switzerland 3230
South Korea 2475
Australia 3007
Spain 2808
Italy 2665
India 1602
Netherlands 2452
Sweden 1843
Singapore 1302
Israel 1301
Russia 1394

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:10 pm

Quade wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:00 pm Nature Index of Sciencyness:


United States of America (USA) 28722
China 19033
Germany 8959
United Kingdom (UK) 7803
Japan 5036
France 5067
Canada 3480
Switzerland 3230
South Korea 2475
Australia 3007
Spain 2808
Italy 2665
India 1602
Netherlands 2452
Sweden 1843
Singapore 1302
Israel 1301
Russia 1394

Idiotic to have Russia so low down, typical westernized bullshit. Plum

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:35 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:26 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:58 pm

You are just a sour puss because I didn't list the UK in the top 5. Which of those 5 top countries I've mentioned should be replaced by the UK (there, I've made it easy for you)? And name any other country that should be included in that top 5 instead, come on softcock.

No, you’re just doubling down on offering no reasoning or evidence. Your list is bullshit and you know it, because you won’t tell us why you think that, you just want someone else to put something up so you can argue with it.

Again, which other countries could qualify? Making my list off as bullshit is a bit harsh, I think.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:10 pm

Quade wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:00 pm Nature Index of Sciencyness:


United States of America (USA) 28722
China 19033
Germany 8959
United Kingdom (UK) 7803
Japan 5036
France 5067
Canada 3480
Switzerland 3230
South Korea 2475
Australia 3007
Spain 2808
Italy 2665
India 1602
Netherlands 2452
Sweden 1843
Singapore 1302
Israel 1301
Russia 1394

Idiotic to have Russia so low down, typical westernized bullshit. Plum

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:35 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:26 pm

No, you’re just doubling down on offering no reasoning or evidence. Your list is bullshit and you know it, because you won’t tell us why you think that, you just want someone else to put something up so you can argue with it.

Again, which other countries could qualify? Making my list off as bullshit is a bit harsh, I think.

Give us a reason why it’s not bullshit then. Justify it.

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:37 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:35 pm

Again, which other countries could qualify? Making my list off as bullshit is a bit harsh, I think.

Give us a reason why it’s not bullshit then. Justify it.

So far the best that anyone has come up with is that the UK should replace Russia in the top 5 (I disagree with that). There seems to be consensus that the other countries mentioned by me should be top of he list. So it's not a bullshit list as only the position of Russia seems to be
challenged in my the top 5.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:40 pm

Amethyst wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:37 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Give us a reason why it’s not bullshit then. Justify it.

So far the best that anyone has come up with is that the UK should replace Russia in the top 5 (I disagree with that). There seems to be consensus that the other countries mentioned by me should be top of he list. So it's not a bullshit list as only the position of Russia seems to be
challenged in my the top 5.

Nature's opinion is a pretty strong one. Number of scientific and technical papers released is another. Noble laureates, perhaps fairer would be Laureates per capita? Every one of which places the UK above Russia I'm afraid.

You seem to have a bullshit list based on, well, the bullshit coming out of your own head. Whereas those lists would all be based on actual evidence.

sturginho wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 pm A side effect of PR kicking the bucket is that the tiresome trolls are finding their way here