NPR

obelixtim wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:57 am Reiko needs to be dropped. Every coach I've played under would drop him for that screw up. And his team mates who had done bloody well to set him up with an easy run in would have been spewing. That bit of dumbfuckery cost them the game.

He needs to learn to respect the ball, his team mates and the opposition, before he should be allowed to be a contender for the black jersey again. Fozzie should sentence him to doing laps of the ground on his own, while the rest of the team get on with training. No place for show ponies in the ABs.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:06 am Wow, the pitchforks are really out for Rieko now.

I’m more for giving him one more chance. If he takes this as a humbling learning experience, this could be the making of him.*

*As a useful squad member over the next five years, rather than all time great.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:33 am Chopping and changing isn’t great, but if the selection is wrong in the first place, then of course it should be changed.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:40 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:33 am Chopping and changing isn’t great, but if the selection is wrong in the first place, then of course it should be changed.

Who decides if a selection is wrong though? Ian Foster has had 12 months to select this team. He and his two fellow selectors are paid a million bucks a year to pick a team. Surely given how long they've had to select this team, they are going to show some faith in their players?

Two problems I see potentially arising if Foster is as shit as I believe he is. 1) He's had no experience in dealing with an underperforming AB team, having enjoyed a 90% winning record as Hansen's 2nd in charge, 2) Rotating is very easy to do when the team is playing well, but much harder to do when the team is playing badly. If he drops Rieko Ioane this weekend that could destroy his confidence and potentially spell the end of his test match career.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:42 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:40 am If he drops Rieko Ioane this weekend that could destroy his confidence and potentially spell the end of his test match career.

What's the downside?

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:47 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:42 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:40 am If he drops Rieko Ioane this weekend that could destroy his confidence and potentially spell the end of his test match career.

What's the downside?

Your boy R Mo wasted a crucial penalty by seeking to cover himself in glory, as he has done before, at crucial moments.

Never seems to learn.

You're pretty quick to demand that he have a fair go.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:55 am I love ALB and Goodhue as players, but on reflection I think we need to echo the good old Conrad Smith/Ma'a Nonu days where each centre brought something a bit different. I'd choose Laumape or Umaga-Jensen to partner one of the aforementioned. But if neither of the latter two are in the picture, Rieko's power and speed brings that something different. If his weaknesses can be ironed out, which will happen quicker with steady selection.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 am I was going to have Reiko riding the pine in my match day selection, but realised the balance wasn't right. Jordie had to be there.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:21 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 am I was going to have Reiko riding the pine in my match day selection, but realised the balance wasn't right. Jordie had to be there.

You’ve got a back line full of lithe, slim players with the builds of swimmers. Where is the power going to come from?

Magpie26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:26 pm I'm going to go with the giving Reiko another chance camp.

He knows he ****ed up but he was looking pretty dangerous on attack during the game and the guy is seriously quick, the way RM and him left the Ozzie backline flailing for his non try was pretty impressive.
Is he the finished article, clearly not but I say give him a chance to show he can learn, if he doesn't then he is gone. He is not the 1st AB to mess up and won't be the last.

Looking again at the game the forwards clearly had an edge in the lineout and at times in the scrum. The defensive work was pretty solid and even brutal at times, what was missing for me was the ball carrying but we also didn't seem to string enough phases together for this to be effective.
Pretty tempted to keep the forward pack as it is.

Biggest issue was dealing with the high ball. In Bridge, DMAC and JB we had 3 players who are normally pretty damn good under the high ball and we can usually launch attacks off ball kicked to us. This didn't happen and not entirely sure why. Oz didn't seem to have as much trouble so not sure how much was down to the weather.

With the wind blowing things everywhere the cross field kicking to the wings went out the window.

I think Foster needs to make his mind up as to which Barrett he wants to play at 15 and probably put Reece on the wing.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:06 am Wow, the pitchforks are really out for Rieko now.

I’m more for giving him one more chance. If he takes this as a humbling learning experience, this could be the making of him.*

*As a useful squad member over the next five years, rather than all time great.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:06 am Wow, the pitchforks are really out for Rieko now.

I’m more for giving him one more chance. If he takes this as a humbling learning experience, this could be the making of him.*

*As a useful squad member over the next five years, rather than all time great.

Auckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:33 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:06 am Wow, the pitchforks are really out for Rieko now.

I’m more for giving him one more chance. If he takes this as a humbling learning experience, this could be the making of him.*

*As a useful squad member over the next five years, rather than all time great.

Yeah I reckon he should be given another go. He'll play better on his home ground. Let's face it, everyone plays crap in Wellington. There is an All Black curse at that ground. They should blow it up.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:40 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:33 am Chopping and changing isn’t great, but if the selection is wrong in the first place, then of course it should be changed.

Who decides if a selection is wrong though? Ian Foster has had 12 months to select this team. He and his two fellow selectors are paid a million bucks a year to pick a team. Surely given how long they've had to select this team, they are going to show some faith in their players?

Two problems I see potentially arising if Foster is as shit as I believe he is. 1) He's had no experience in dealing with an underperforming AB team, having enjoyed a 90% winning record as Hansen's 2nd in charge, 2) Rotating is very easy to do when the team is playing well, but much harder to do when the team is playing badly. If he drops Rieko Ioane this weekend that could destroy his confidence and potentially spell the end of his test match career.

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:12 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:40 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:33 am Chopping and changing isn’t great, but if the selection is wrong in the first place, then of course it should be changed.

Who decides if a selection is wrong though? Ian Foster has had 12 months to select this team. He and his two fellow selectors are paid a million bucks a year to pick a team. Surely given how long they've had to select this team, they are going to show some faith in their players?

Two problems I see potentially arising if Foster is as shit as I believe he is. 1) He's had no experience in dealing with an underperforming AB team, having enjoyed a 90% winning record as Hansen's 2nd in charge, 2) Rotating is very easy to do when the team is playing well, but much harder to do when the team is playing badly. If he drops Rieko Ioane this weekend that could destroy his confidence and potentially spell the end of his test match career.

Could be right, and would same be said if Mounga gets benched, it would certainly give every team the idea that they can pressure him with rush defence, and worse still let it get in Mounga's head. I always thought he and BB would have chances at 10, but after BB not playing on weekend are they better to keep Mounga there and have BB at 15 to take more of playmaker role off him? It's pretty tough whichever way they go with either of them, though I tend to think RM needs to be persevered with as he needs to really get confidence at test level going forward. And no I not knocking RM ,just he never looked quite as commanding at test level as at Super, but believe a bit of that is because he hasn't really got complete confidnce that comes from an outstanding performance. Think maybe Frizzell maybe same, another I am fan of ,but needs to stamp himself at test level.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:19 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:12 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:40 am

Who decides if a selection is wrong though? Ian Foster has had 12 months to select this team. He and his two fellow selectors are paid a million bucks a year to pick a team. Surely given how long they've had to select this team, they are going to show some faith in their players?

Two problems I see potentially arising if Foster is as shit as I believe he is. 1) He's had no experience in dealing with an underperforming AB team, having enjoyed a 90% winning record as Hansen's 2nd in charge, 2) Rotating is very easy to do when the team is playing well, but much harder to do when the team is playing badly. If he drops Rieko Ioane this weekend that could destroy his confidence and potentially spell the end of his test match career.

Could be right, and would same be said if Mounga gets benched, it would certainly give every team the idea that they can pressure him with rush defence, and worse still let it get in Mounga's head. I always thought he and BB would have chances at 10, but after BB not playing on weekend are they better to keep Mounga there and have BB at 15 to take more of playmaker role off him? It's pretty tough whichever way they go with either of them, though I tend to think RM needs to be persevered with as he needs to really get confidence at test level going forward. And no I not knocking RM ,just he never looked quite as commanding at test level as at Super, but believe a bit of that is because he hasn't really got complete confidnce that comes from an outstanding performance. Think maybe Frizzell maybe same, another I am fan of ,but needs to stamp himself at test level.

The best the AB's have looked at test level over the past 2 years was against Ireland in the RWC QF, with Mo'unga at no.10. The second best we've looked is when we beat the Springboks at the RWC, with Mo'unga at 10. I know you dislike Mo'unga, and all things Canterbury, but the ABSOLUTE worst thing Foster could do to either Barrett or Mo'unga is persist with the failed dual playmaker system. It's chaotic and it has failed.

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:29 am Here we go again, I have and still say I am a Mounga fan, I don't want him ruined because he is not going flash against rush defences a few times, although as you rightly may say the best performances we have put in over the last couple of years he has been at 10, probably 2or 3 of their lesser performances were maybe vs England, Wallabies (Perth) and maybe on weekend RM was also at 10! All I trying to suggest is to take pressure off him, and you have to admit he was average on Saturday (for him). As for dislike of all things Canterbury, seeing as I a fan of Richie McCaw, Sam Whitelock, Codie Taylor, etc etc and alswys argued for them you really need a better argument.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:50 am I was impressed with our young reserves when they came on. They ended up getting about 10 more minutes on the field than anticipated, and I thought they all contributed. Does anyone see any changes being made to the starting pack?

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:11 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:50 am I was impressed with our young reserves when they came on. They ended up getting about 10 more minutes on the field than anticipated, and I thought they all contributed. Does anyone see any changes being made to the starting pack?

I like the idea that they pick the same pack and tell them to redeem themselves. That and apart from putting savea at 6 and bring in Sotutu not sure what else would be an effective change.

As someone has said, you don't win with 30% possession and territory unless the other team are numpties who can't score or your counter attack is scary good.

The forwards need to step up big time and bend some wallabies in attack defence and in the rucks. Tuipolotu and Frizzell need to stand up. In terms of changes I'd give Ioane another chance but move Jordie to fullback with Clarke on the wing. That would hopefully provide a bit of punch that we weren't able to get last week

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 am

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:11 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:50 am I was impressed with our young reserves when they came on. They ended up getting about 10 more minutes on the field than anticipated, and I thought they all contributed. Does anyone see any changes being made to the starting pack?

I like the idea that they pick the same pack and tell them to redeem themselves. That and apart from putting savea at 6 and bring in Sotutu not sure what else would be an effective change.

As someone has said, you don't win with 30% possession and territory unless the other team are numpties who can't score or your counter attack is scary good.

The forwards need to step up big time and bend some wallabies in attack defence and in the rucks. Tuipolotu and Frizzell need to stand up. In terms of changes I'd give Ioane another chance but move Jordie to fullback with Clarke on the wing. That would hopefully provide a bit of punch that we weren't able to get last week

Sotutu had a great debut - got through a lot of work and was strong and accurate. Vaa'i and Lomax were also good value. But yeah, tend to agree with the redemption approach. Also agree that Tuipulotu and Frizell should get a rocket.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:36 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:29 am Here we go again, I have and still say I am a Mounga fan, I don't want him ruined because he is not going flash against rush defences a few times, although as you rightly may say the best performances we have put in over the last couple of years he has been at 10, probably 2or 3 of their lesser performances were maybe vs England, Wallabies (Perth) and maybe on weekend RM was also at 10! All I trying to suggest is to take pressure off him, and you have to admit he was average on Saturday (for him). As for dislike of all things Canterbury, seeing as I a fan of Richie McCaw, Sam Whitelock, Codie Taylor, etc etc and alswys argued for them you really need a better argument.

I just find the way that Barrett fans expect Mo'unga to play brilliantly every single match quite amusing. We had 30% of possession, 30% of territory and were bum-rushed by a committed Wallaby rush defense. Even so, Mounga would have led us to victory from 10 were it not for Rieko Ioane giving tries away because he wanted to look cool.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 am

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:11 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:50 am I was impressed with our young reserves when they came on. They ended up getting about 10 more minutes on the field than anticipated, and I thought they all contributed. Does anyone see any changes being made to the starting pack?

I like the idea that they pick the same pack and tell them to redeem themselves. That and apart from putting savea at 6 and bring in Sotutu not sure what else would be an effective change.

As someone has said, you don't win with 30% possession and territory unless the other team are numpties who can't score or your counter attack is scary good.

The forwards need to step up big time and bend some wallabies in attack defence and in the rucks. Tuipolotu and Frizzell need to stand up. In terms of changes I'd give Ioane another chance but move Jordie to fullback with Clarke on the wing. That would hopefully provide a bit of punch that we weren't able to get last week

Sotutu had a great debut - got through a lot of work and was strong and accurate. Vaa'i and Lomax were also good value. But yeah, tend to agree with the redemption approach. Also agree that Tuipulotu and Frizell should get a rocket.

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:07 amBoth Frizzell and PT didn't look as commtited as they did at Super did they? And I will say what I said last week, I really wouldn't mind Sotutu starting and Ardie of the pine. I not sure that maybe too many ABs thought didn't think they had the game won before starting like in Perth last year? The young fellas I don't think are usually as guilty of it as maybe some older ones who have beaten the Wallabies lot, or maybe us fans who expect a win everytime.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:12 am I just don’t think Jordie Barrett belongs in the AB set up. His lack of pace is just too big a flaw.

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:20 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:12 am I just don’t think Jordie Barrett belongs in the AB set up. His lack of pace is just too big a flaw.

He scored his try, unlike your boy Reiko with tits for hands. What's pace for when you brain can't process it?

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:39 am

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:20 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:12 am I just don’t think Jordie Barrett belongs in the AB set up. His lack of pace is just too big a flaw.

He scored his try, unlike your boy Reiko with tits for hands. What's pace for when you brain can't process it?

Rieko could get smarter. Jordie isn’t going to get much faster.

Grandpa wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:39 am I can't believe most people are going on about the backs.. when the forwards lost the test match. Bullied up front, this team is reminding me of the Taine Randell era... NZ need to start intimidating opponents again, not be roughed up by the likes of England and Australia... start dominating rucks and winning collisions.... somewhere over the last 5 years NZ rugby has got too loose... and has forgotten to set a foundation up front first...