NPR

Jerome_Kaino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:51 pm

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:32 pm

Jerome_Kaino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:17 am I think JB either needs to play 15 or not play at all.
He is not a winger and doesn't offer the impact of the bench like DMac.
I think he will be the best full back in NZ and a potential WPOY in 2023 so I think he should start and gain experience.

Not play at all. World Player of the Year? What am I missing about this slow awkward player that was shown up for his lack of pace at Eden Park.. yet again? I'd have any fullback currently playing Super Rugby in NZ ahead of him...

You' ve probably missed the full season of Super Rugby Aotearoa

And for those of us still on planet earth...?

When was Jordie shown up for lack of pace in Eden park? Did I miss something?

Wild Beef wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:43 pm When was Jordie shown up for lack of pace in Eden park? Did I miss something?

He may have meant the Wellington game when he made hard work of running in his try.

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:32 pmWhat am I missing about this slow awkward player that was shown up for his lack of pace at Eden Park.. yet again?

He's playing well and has not been shown up for pace, would be my guess.

But of course you dislike him so you don't want to admit it.

Wild Beef wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:43 pm When was Jordie shown up for lack of pace in Eden park? Did I miss something?

Ummm.. every time he moves? Chasing his brother's kick through I thought it was a lumbering forward on the wing...

I watched all his matches in the Super Aotearoa.. he was his usual underwhelming self...

A fullback or wing with no pace and no side-step... so what does he offer other than height and a big kick? Give me Havili, or Will Jordan any day...

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:20 pm

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:32 pmWhat am I missing about this slow awkward player that was shown up for his lack of pace at Eden Park.. yet again?

He's playing well and has not been shown up for pace, would be my guess.

But of course you dislike him so you don't want to admit it.

He seems a pleasant bloke... but is no more than a journeyman Super Rugby player...

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:46 pm I watched all his matches in the Super Aotearoa.. he was his usual underwhelming self...

Suuure...


Care to point out all his stuff-ups in Bled 2?

So Grandpa can go on the proven liars list.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:57 pm

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:46 pm I watched all his matches in the Super Aotearoa.. he was his usual underwhelming self...

Suuure...


Care to point out all his stuff-ups in Bled 2?

I didn't realise super safe alone was a quality? He did nothing in either test... as usual... never seen him make an outside break.. never seen him do a fraction of what his brother can do... he would easily be the worst All Black fullback in my lifetime... even the inept Zac Guildford had a semblance of pace...

And what do you make of his unorthodox but highly effective new role during kick-off receptions?

Jordie Barrett was not skinned for pace in Bledislie tests I or II. I'm happy to concede that. But anyone who saw Mitch Hunt humiliate him during Super Rugby Aotearoa knows that this is going to happen. JB's lack of pace, and especially his lack of acceleration off the mark, will be exposed by elite left wingers.

My concern is that he produced nothing in attack. He created no opportunities, which is in stark contrast to Sevu Reece over the past 12 months. Couple his lack of potency with the fact that at 14 we are less able to utilise his play making ability, long kicking or ariel ability, and I think it's a waste having him on the wing.

I'm not a huge fan of him being on the wing, either. But he's playing well and 13 tries in 19 tests ain't too shabby.

He certainly didn’t underwhelm is super rugby Aotearoa.

Wild Beef wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:45 pm He certainly didn’t underwhelm is super rugby Aotearoa.

Must be easily pleased. I want pace in my outside backs... not giraffes with big boots... oh for a young Ben Smith again...

I can't believe NZ is willing to accept mediocrity in the backline... talking about Jordie's low error count (apart from that major panic in the world cup semi) as a reason to pick him... talking like that, you may as well rename the All Blacks, England... there must be (and are) much better fullbacks and wingers in NZ rugby... game breakers...

George Bridge for a start is a class act. He's what Jordie can only dream of being... low error count but with a bit of x-factor... though Caleb has usurped him now...

Does this count as getting skinned?

Wild Beef wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:45 pm He certainly didn’t underwhelm is super rugby Aotearoa.

He was right up there as a fullback, probably either the best or equal best in the comp. I don’t think anyone seriously argues that.

I can’t speak for the others but I have a problem with Jordie being an All Black because he was rushed into the team before really proving his worth at Soup Level as someone deserving the black jersey. That will always colour my perception of Jordie the All Black. In my view he was gifted selection and has yet to really convince of his merits... as an All Black. He should be clearly the best contender for his position. He’s clearly not the best right wing we have. He’s in there because the coaches want to fit him into the team regardless of his suitability for the role. On top of that we’re not playing to his strengths... so we are wasting his position when we could have a more dynamic player selected there.

I can see a role for Jordie in the team buts it’s not right wing. I think a kind way to describe my views on his selection is that he’s a project player... someone the coaches hope to see grow into a role. That’s a massive leg up for a young player and other contenders around the country could rightly scratch their heads and look elsewhere in the face of that.

I’d have him on the bench at 23 if his brother starts at 15. Otherwise, I’d have him start at 15 or not at all.

Solid post Guy (that is you right?)

Only disagreement is I’m pretty sure Grandpa is in-fact arguing Jordie had a poor super rugby season.

Yeah, it’s me. I chose this username as a pisstake after Shanky and I had a funny exchange on PR.

I can see where Grandpa is coming from. Jordie strung together a decent season but there’s so many variables in that. Just the way the Canes structured their back line and where their attack aligned, for instance.

I find it frustrating as a fan and supporter to see such favouritism from the coaches. I feel it’s been a pattern for a few years now and it colours my perception of the team, selections, tactics and even the way the game itself is being run at home. I sense there an element of Devil’s Advocate in your argument and I appreciate that... but Jordie is a polarising figure who will attract more debate and both sides of that debate are going to swing from reasonable to relatively deranged.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:30 pm I'm not a huge fan of him being on the wing, either. But he's playing well and 13 tries in 19 tests ain't too shabby.

Let's be fair - four of those were against Italy, one against Namibia, one against Canada, and the two he's scored against Australia were untouched run-ins you'd expect any squad member to finish. Anyone can finish an unopposed put down when the space is created by inside men - what tries has he actually created through line breaks/aerial skills/putting someone into space?

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:16 am

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:57 pm I don't think Jordie and Reece are directly competing.

Reece is a specialist 14 and played 14 for most of last year. JB is the current 14. I think they are competing.

Reece isn't a specialist 14, on the other hand Bridge is a somewhat a specialist 11 thus why reece was used at 14 by the crusaders and ultimately the AB's ..ppl keep forgetting how reece made the Crusaders, to cover Mataele's injury, he could be playing left wing for the all blacks had Bridge gotten that year long injury manasa had.. reece has played both wings, centre and fullback for Waikato, even covered goal kicking as well, to call him a specialist right wing is an insult..Naholo was a specialist right wing (even though he could play left), that said, i don't think the AB's have named a specialist right winger at 14 in years.. if my memory serves me right before Naholo it was Rico Gear more than a decade earlier.. they have always played utilities at 14...ben smith the most successful of the 'converts' in recent years

Munch wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:16 pm Does this count as getting skinned?

most punters agree that had it been jordan or reece on that wing, they would have scored.

Yeah, Reece scores that try. The guy kicking the ball probably scores it too, maybe he should be on the wing.

JB lacks the acceleration necessary for a truly weaponised wing. He's almost ideal as utility bench cover, and his form this year certainly warrants a place in the 23

I think they want a reasonably experienced back 3, If you picked it solely on form - Clarke 11, Jordie 15 , Jordan 14 would be the starting trio.

Having Beauden and Jordie starting together is important for Foster. They've got a combined 100+ caps.

They're some of the key decision makers in the backline.. so the thought process from Foster, in starting both Barretts, is understandable.

Jordie is still a faster AB winger than Frank "I got chased down by a prop" Halai

stemoc wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:55 pm

Munch wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:16 pm Does this count as getting skinned?

most punters agree that had it been jordan or reece on that wing, they would have scored.

Ben Lam would have scored that under the posts

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:39 am I think they want a reasonably experienced back 3, If you picked it solely on form - Clarke 11, Jordie 15 , Jordan 14 would be the starting trio.

Having Beauden and Jordie starting together is important for Foster. They've got a combined 100+ caps.

They're some of the key decision makers in the backline.. so the thought process from Foster, in starting both Barretts, is understandable.

Yeah, the rationale is understandable (though your combined cap stat is hilarious). It's less of the combination at test level than the combination at backyard bullrush level that Foster will be considering. It's just that both Barrett's are out of position. In Beauden's case it makes sense and can be easily justified, as much as the dual pivot approach hasn't yet really flourished. In Jordie's case it's a square-peg work around that I hope they don't persist with

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:39 am I think they want a reasonably experienced back 3, If you picked it solely on form - Clarke 11, Jordie 15 , Jordan 14 would be the starting trio.

Having Beauden and Jordie starting together is important for Foster. They've got a combined 100+ caps.

They're some of the key decision makers in the backline.. so the thought process from Foster, in starting both Barretts, is understandable.

Yeah, the rationale is understandable (though your combined cap stat is hilarious).

Huh?

Barrett has 87 caps, Jordie has 19 = 106

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:55 am

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:39 am I think they want a reasonably experienced back 3, If you picked it solely on form - Clarke 11, Jordie 15 , Jordan 14 would be the starting trio.

Having Beauden and Jordie starting together is important for Foster. They've got a combined 100+ caps.

They're some of the key decision makers in the backline.. so the thought process from Foster, in starting both Barretts, is understandable.

Yeah, the rationale is understandable (though your combined cap stat is hilarious).

Huh?

Barrett has 87 caps, Jordie has 19 = 106

Exactly, a massively lopsided cap count. In reality they've played 14 tests together and until this year not many if any of them had one brother - the fullback - starting on the wing while the other brother - a first-five - starting at fullback.

It's not an established test combination

At some point in the near future, Jordie is going to get the ball 40m out in acres of space and be run down with consummate ease.

At that point it will become abundantly clear what we have been saying for weeks.

Jordie isn't a test level winger.

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:06 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:55 am

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 am

Yeah, the rationale is understandable (though your combined cap stat is hilarious).

Huh?

Barrett has 87 caps, Jordie has 19 = 106

Exactly, a massively lopsided cap count. In reality they've played 14 tests together and until this year not many if any of them had one brother - the fullback - starting on the wing while the other brother - a first-five - starting at fullback.

It's not an established test combination

I don't agree with the combination either, but I can understand Foster's reasoning.

I think Jordan is a much better fit for the 14 jersey, because of Jordan's pace, he will be able to complement the other two's (Clarke, Barrett) attack by being in support and finishing off the line-breaks.

Jordie Barrett covers 11-15 and should be on the bench ahead of Mackenzie. You can also bring him off the bench to kick 60 metre penalty goals at the later stage of matches, another reason Rennie has been using Hodge in the 23 jersey for the Wallabies.

A backs bench of TJ Perenara, Reiko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, would be extremely ideal going forward.

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 am

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:06 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:55 am

Huh?

Barrett has 87 caps, Jordie has 19 = 106

Exactly, a massively lopsided cap count. In reality they've played 14 tests together and until this year not many if any of them had one brother - the fullback - starting on the wing while the other brother - a first-five - starting at fullback.

It's not an established test combination

I don't agree with the combination either, but I can understand Foster's reasoning.

I think Jordan is a much better fit for the 14 jersey, because of Jordan's pace, he will be able to complement the other two's (Clarke, Barrett) attack by being in support and finishing off the line-breaks.

Jordie Barrett covers 11-15 and should be on the bench ahead of Mackenzie. You can also bring him off the bench to kick 60 metre penalty goals at the later stage of matches, another reason Rennie has been using Hodge in the 23 jersey for the Wallabies.

A backs bench of TJ Perenara, Reiko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, would be extremely ideal going forward.

That backs bench covers most bases pretty well. Hopefully Reiko returns suitably chastened from his dumbfuckery.

The wild card will be Laumape. A natural starting 12 rather than good utility cover, but unlikely to edge out ALB or Goodhue any time soon. Personally I'd love to see Lumpy and ALB get an extended run together.

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 am

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:06 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:55 am

Huh?

Barrett has 87 caps, Jordie has 19 = 106

Exactly, a massively lopsided cap count. In reality they've played 14 tests together and until this year not many if any of them had one brother - the fullback - starting on the wing while the other brother - a first-five - starting at fullback.

It's not an established test combination

I don't agree with the combination either, but I can understand Foster's reasoning.

I think Jordan is a much better fit for the 14 jersey, because of Jordan's pace, he will be able to complement the other two's (Clarke, Barrett) attack by being in support and finishing off the line-breaks.

Jordie Barrett covers 11-15 and should be on the bench ahead of Mackenzie. You can also bring him off the bench to kick 60 metre penalty goals at the later stage of matches, another reason Rennie has been using Hodge in the 23 jersey for the Wallabies.

A backs bench of TJ Perenara, Reiko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, would be extremely ideal going forward.

Is it his reasoning? Link? I’d thought you just pulled that discredited whoopsy out of yourself.

Most of the rest of post makes sense. Though, I wonder do you need Ioane if JB covers all such positions. Perhaps a bit more centre specialist cover.

stemoc wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:55 pm

Munch wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:16 pm Does this count as getting skinned?

most punters agree that had it been jordan or reece on that wing, they would have scored.

Were you able to watch the clip? It was slow loading for me - I mean really slow - slower than Jordie at full pace slow.

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:23 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 am

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:06 am

Exactly, a massively lopsided cap count. In reality they've played 14 tests together and until this year not many if any of them had one brother - the fullback - starting on the wing while the other brother - a first-five - starting at fullback.

It's not an established test combination

I don't agree with the combination either, but I can understand Foster's reasoning.

I think Jordan is a much better fit for the 14 jersey, because of Jordan's pace, he will be able to complement the other two's (Clarke, Barrett) attack by being in support and finishing off the line-breaks.

Jordie Barrett covers 11-15 and should be on the bench ahead of Mackenzie. You can also bring him off the bench to kick 60 metre penalty goals at the later stage of matches, another reason Rennie has been using Hodge in the 23 jersey for the Wallabies.

A backs bench of TJ Perenara, Reiko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, would be extremely ideal going forward.

That backs bench covers most bases pretty well. Hopefully Reiko returns suitably chastened from his dumbfuckery.

The wild card will be Laumape. A natural starting 12 rather than good utility cover, but unlikely to edge out ALB or Goodhue any time soon. Personally I'd love to see Lumpy and ALB get an extended run together.

This.

9. Smith
10. Mo
11. Clark
12. Lumpy
13. ALB
14. Jordan
15. BB

Bench
JB
Goodhue
TJ

Though if too controversial, switch Lumpy and Goodhue. As Lumpy is a specialist 12, and the other 2 can play both 12/13, and switch if needed when the Lump comes on.

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:38 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 am

NotNaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:06 am

Exactly, a massively lopsided cap count. In reality they've played 14 tests together and until this year not many if any of them had one brother - the fullback - starting on the wing while the other brother - a first-five - starting at fullback.

It's not an established test combination

I don't agree with the combination either, but I can understand Foster's reasoning.

I think Jordan is a much better fit for the 14 jersey, because of Jordan's pace, he will be able to complement the other two's (Clarke, Barrett) attack by being in support and finishing off the line-breaks.

Jordie Barrett covers 11-15 and should be on the bench ahead of Mackenzie. You can also bring him off the bench to kick 60 metre penalty goals at the later stage of matches, another reason Rennie has been using Hodge in the 23 jersey for the Wallabies.

A backs bench of TJ Perenara, Reiko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, would be extremely ideal going forward.

Is it his reasoning? Link? I’d thought you just pulled that discredited whoopsy out of yourself.

Most of the rest of post makes sense. Though, I wonder do you need Ioane if JB covers all such positions. Perhaps a bit more centre specialist cover.

Ioane has to be in the 23.. even at the expense of Lumpy.

He was the form 13 of SRA. If Goodhue and ALB didn't work together so well as a combination, Reiko would start every day of the week.

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:55 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:38 am

wet-socks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 am

I don't agree with the combination either, but I can understand Foster's reasoning.

I think Jordan is a much better fit for the 14 jersey, because of Jordan's pace, he will be able to complement the other two's (Clarke, Barrett) attack by being in support and finishing off the line-breaks.

Jordie Barrett covers 11-15 and should be on the bench ahead of Mackenzie. You can also bring him off the bench to kick 60 metre penalty goals at the later stage of matches, another reason Rennie has been using Hodge in the 23 jersey for the Wallabies.

A backs bench of TJ Perenara, Reiko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, would be extremely ideal going forward.

Is it his reasoning? Link? I’d thought you just pulled that discredited whoopsy out of yourself.

Most of the rest of post makes sense. Though, I wonder do you need Ioane if JB covers all such positions. Perhaps a bit more centre specialist cover.

Ioane has to be in the 23.. even at the expense of Lumpy.

He was the form 13 of SRA. If Goodhue and ALB didn't work together so well as a combination, Reiko would start every day of the week.

You are coming across like a deluded fanboy. You should probably watch him again playing centre at Intl level. Bled 1 perhaps?

Statistically he was great. He ran excellent lines and made huge metres on every occasion he got the ball. was one of our only backs that was dangerous on attack in Wellington and constantly threatened the line.

the dropped ball was attitudinal, nothing the coaches can't fix.

Reiko is the future. He's 23. covers 12 & 13. Lumpy is already 27, probably get thrown the odd test between now & 2022, then he'll pack his bags for France.

So apart from failing to score the try while forcing the 5-metre scrum that the ABs immediately scored a try from anyway, what other heinous crimes did Jordie commit in that test?

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:20 am So apart from failing to score the try while forcing the 5-metre scrum that the ABs immediately scored a try from anyway, what other heinous crimes did Jordie commit in that test?

None. I still think his lack of pace will cost us eventually and don’t think, picking on form/attributes for wing, that he warrants that spot. He has stepped up massively over the past year and had a great super rugby season at fullback, I just don’t see him being the best wing choice.

Flipping your question, what has Jordie done in the last two test that Jordan and Reece wouldn’t have, and what has he done that they wouldn’t/couldn’t?

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:30 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:20 am So apart from failing to score the try while forcing the 5-metre scrum that the ABs immediately scored a try from anyway, what other heinous crimes did Jordie commit in that test?

None. I still think his lack of pace will cost us eventually and don’t think, picking on form/attributes for wing, that he warrants that spot. He has stepped up massively over the past year and had a great super rugby season at fullback, I just don’t see him being the best wing choice.

Flipping your question, what has Jordie done in the last two test that Jordan and Reece wouldn’t have, and what us he done that they wouldn’t/couldn’t?

Yeah, I get the prevailing sentiment, and agree he seems more like a place-holder option than a conventional 14. But he's doing a lot of things right, not least his much improved decision making, and he offers a real point of difference. I don't think he's done anything yet to warrant being dropped. Having said that, I'm probably just as keen as anyone to see Will Jordan get a run.