not wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.
like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.
Your personal choice not to be vaccinated will rub against others right not to be infected
but if they are vaccinated i cant infect them surely? Thats why they got the vaccination in the first place. Its not a needle full of fresh air.
Thats my point. My personal choice should cause them no bother at all because they got the needle and are happy as larry.
its like you asking me to wear a rain jacket so you wont get wet.
once you have your umbrella you'll be fine, what im wearing doesnt matter.
We already covered this, it's not just about the people on the plane, it's about the people at your destination. There will be a substantial period of time where the population will be at mixed stages of vaccination. Allowing unvaccinated people who are potentialyl carrying the virus onto a plane to travel into areas where there are unvaccinated would be irresponsible in the extreme and they are taking that decision away from the solipsistic or uncaring. Good for them.
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:21 pm
should people who are HIV positive have to identify themselves so we can decide whether we are happy to sit beside them or not ?
what about measles,mups,rubella, TB?
Lets make sure everyone has the whole lot done. Why stop at covid.
Of course you can't fly with fucking mumps
Qantas already prohibit a while bunch of infectious diseases
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:21 pm
should people who are HIV positive have to identify themselves so we can decide whether we are happy to sit beside them or not ?
what about measles,mups,rubella, TB?
Lets make sure everyone has the whole lot done. Why stop at covid.
Of course you can't fly with fucking mumps
Qantas already prohibit a while bunch of infectious diseases
Your personal choice not to be vaccinated will rub against others right not to be infected
but if they are vaccinated i cant infect them surely? Thats why they got the vaccination in the first place. Its not a needle full of fresh air.
Thats my point. My personal choice should cause them no bother at all because they got the needle and are happy as larry.
its like you asking me to wear a rain jacket so you wont get wet.
once you have your umbrella you'll be fine, what im wearing doesnt matter.
We already covered this, it's not just about the people on the plane, it's about the people at your destination. There will be a substantial period of time where the population will be at mixed stages of vaccination. Allowing unvaccinated people who are potentialyl carrying the virus onto a plane to travel into areas where there are unvaccinated would be irresponsible in the extreme and they are taking that decision away from the solipsistic or uncaring. Good for them.
id agree with you if they said " for 1 year everyone must be vaccinated to travel on our flights, after a year its your own fucking fault if you didnt get the jab so buyer beware".
Secondly . there are flights still in operation all over Europe for example. I fly into Portugal once a week from work. Your second scenario is already happening. In fact in europe we are just driving across boarders and on trains unchecked.
but if they are vaccinated i cant infect them surely? Thats why they got the vaccination in the first place. Its not a needle full of fresh air.
Thats my point. My personal choice should cause them no bother at all because they got the needle and are happy as larry.
its like you asking me to wear a rain jacket so you wont get wet.
once you have your umbrella you'll be fine, what im wearing doesnt matter.
We already covered this, it's not just about the people on the plane, it's about the people at your destination. There will be a substantial period of time where the population will be at mixed stages of vaccination. Allowing unvaccinated people who are potentialyl carrying the virus onto a plane to travel into areas where there are unvaccinated would be irresponsible in the extreme and they are taking that decision away from the solipsistic or uncaring. Good for them.
id agree with you if they said " for 1 year everyone must be vaccinated to travel on our flights, after a year its your own fucking fault if you didnt get the jab so buyer beware".
Secondly . there are flights still in operation all over Europe for example. I fly into Portugal once a week from work. Your second scenario is already happening. In fact in europe we are just driving across boarders and on trains unchecked.
Yes. Then everyone pulls the surprised pikachu face when the R rate goes up to lockdown level. Unless for truly essential travel like being part of the foodchain, it's bloody stupid.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:43 pm
by Sandstorm
Questions, questions, questions eh Steve?
Here’s another one: “How about not being a dick about Covid?”
How would QANTAS know if you were suffering from anything on that list in your link?
Presumably the same way they'd know if you had covid. Although covid is a little more subtle than massive hamster cheeks or supurating sores.
Thats not true is it? Covid vaccination must be proved before travel.
You don't seem to have to prove anything on that list . They don't stop everyone at the gate and ask DO you have angina? No . Prove it.
Do you have a pacemaker ? No ? Prove it etc etc
I'm not clear what your point here is. You don't have to prove things that aren't contagious like a history of heart trouble. Measels, mumps and TB all have quite obvious symptoms. So we should let people on with covid because it's hard to tell by looking at them?
I thought the issue was that you didn't want to be coerced into getting vaccinated?
Presumably the same way they'd know if you had covid. Although covid is a little more subtle than massive hamster cheeks or supurating sores.
Thats not true is it? Covid vaccination must be proved before travel.
You don't seem to have to prove anything on that list . They don't stop everyone at the gate and ask DO you have angina? No . Prove it.
Do you have a pacemaker ? No ? Prove it etc etc
I'm not clear what your point here is. You don't have to prove things that aren't contagious like a history of heart trouble. Measels, mumps and TB all have quite obvious symptoms. So we should let people on with covid because it's hard to tell by looking at them?
I thought the issue was that you didn't want to be coerced into getting vaccinated?
i didnt bring the other ailments up. it was put to me either by you or by another poster that qantas already prohibited travel with those other ailments . My contention is you don't have to prove you don't have them pre travel.
With covid you're guilty and must prove covid innocence before you can board. im happy to not talk about them if that assertion is dropped.
Thats not true is it? Covid vaccination must be proved before travel.
You don't seem to have to prove anything on that list . They don't stop everyone at the gate and ask DO you have angina? No . Prove it.
Do you have a pacemaker ? No ? Prove it etc etc
I'm not clear what your point here is. You don't have to prove things that aren't contagious like a history of heart trouble. Measels, mumps and TB all have quite obvious symptoms. So we should let people on with covid because it's hard to tell by looking at them?
I thought the issue was that you didn't want to be coerced into getting vaccinated?
i didnt bring the other ailments up. it was put to me either by you or by another poster that qantas already prohibited travel with those other ailments . My contention is you don't have to prove you don't have them pre travel.
With covid you're guilty and must prove covid innocence before you can board. im happy to not talk about them if that assertion is dropped.
Eh? You wrote it like half an hour ago . I'm not convinced you'd remember to get on your flight in the first place!
Fucking disgraceful carry on and I hope someone with clout challenges the legitimacy of this under discrimination laws.
Coming from the same CEO who hounded Folau out of rugby due to his lack of respect for others life choices.
Airlines refuse travellers all the time. If I turn up without a valid passport or without the necessary visa for the country I am travelling to I will be denied boarding.
I have made the life choice not to read the article or all comments here but is this not a reflection that a number of countries are likely to deny entry without vaccination and the airlines would be enforcing that in the same way they do visa requirements?
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:53 am
by Caley_Red
I've got 300,000 FF points with them and, being Scottish, I'd sooner die from vaccine complications than let them expire.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:31 am
by Gumboot
Caley_Red wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:53 am
I've got 300,000 FF points with them and, being Scottish, I'd sooner die from vaccine complications than let them expire.
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm
Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.
This.
Good move by Qantas imho. Who would be selfish enough to not get a safe available vaccine but then expect to fly in a plane full of other people who did get it?
Agreed, it's such a no-brainer.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:08 am
by Insane_Homer
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm
As the pro abortion women were shouting in Ireland two years ago “ my body my choice “
The same applies no ?
You could also just choose not to fly with them.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:18 am
by C69
This is just the start of having a vaccine passport or something similar.
I am sure many countries will require younto have had a vaccine to enter at some point and a vaccine passport will innsome regions be the only way you will be able to get back to normality
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:29 am
by assfly
You still need a yellow fever certificate to travel around East African, and to certain other countries. For those who aren't aware of if by the time they travel, there are medics available at all airports and border crossing who can administered the vaccine and give you a certificate or a stamp in your medical passport. Quite simple really, and people just get on with it.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:29 am
by Enzedder
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm
Against people who are reticent to take a vaccine that has been produced in a remarkably short space of time .
As the pro abortion women were shouting in Ireland two years ago “ my body my choice “
The same applies no ?
"My body, my choice if I spread covid to those who cannot get vaccinated"
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:25 pm
"Management reserve the right to refuse admittance."
As long as the policy is based on any protected group, it's their right to refuse service.
Based on your private medical choices ? I’m not sure . I think there is no precedence for this .
It goes beyond management reserve the right for me......
You are looking for precedence at how to deal with an unprecedented situation like Covid. Good luck with that.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:04 am
by C69
In the Uk at least I think the insurance companies will be very retiscent to give policies for travel insurance and flights if you are not vaccinated.
Hopefully more companies will mandate such measures in the future.
No vaccine no normal life.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:10 am
by Slick
assfly wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:29 am
You still need a yellow fever certificate to travel around East African, and to certain other countries. For those who aren't aware of if by the time they travel, there are medics available at all airports and border crossing who can administered the vaccine and give you a certificate or a stamp in your medical passport. Quite simple really, and people just get on with it.
Quite. And airlines can be fined significant amounts if they allow passengers for all sorts of reasons that are law at the destination. I imagine QF are just getting ahead of the game
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:13 am
by assfly
Slick wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:10 am
Quite. And airlines can be fined significant amounts if they allow passengers for all sorts of reasons that are law at the destination. I imagine QF are just getting ahead of the game
Flying from Kenya to SA is very strict. My yellow fever certificate is checked about 5 times by SAA staff before I get onto the plane, and then severally upon arrival in Joburg.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:21 am
by Ymx
No Vaccine is 100%, and theirs is a numbers game. 90% being the best vaccine (or 10% not immune). And there are a lot of people on a plane sharing the same confined breathing space.
No airline would be allowed by the authorities to continue using a plane and more importantly its staff when a known cov carrier was on board. They’d need to ground the plane for a seriously deep clean, and the air staff might also need to self isolate.
By insisting all passengers are in the 90% immune zone is like risk wise having ten times less unvaccinated passengers.(that’s not exactly mathematically correct, but I’m not going to go into this).
To make the risk equivalent you’d need to allocate 10 seats for each unvaccinated passenger. Perhaps that’s the alternative. They can travel but need to buy 10 seats.
This of course all translates to probabilities of needing to ground planes and staff. Planes can be deep cleaned but will create cancellations. Staff can’t be deep cleaned. Isolate and test.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:53 am
by Saint
assfly wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:29 am
You still need a yellow fever certificate to travel around East African, and to certain other countries. For those who aren't aware of if by the time they travel, there are medics available at all airports and border crossing who can administered the vaccine and give you a certificate or a stamp in your medical passport. Quite simple really, and people just get on with it.
And the Caribbean, and Central; America.
There's a bunch of other proof of vaccine requirements for all sorts of countries, especially once you start considering specifically if you're travelling from high risk areas. Polio, Menigitis, Dengue etc.
Given Australia's and New Zealand's response to Covid it's almost a cast iron certainty that they will require proof of Covid vaccination to allow entry - and most other countries will require this as soon I would think (Canada would be one, and I would actually expect the USA to require this, even if it's still out of control internally). Of course, with all the vaccines so far requiring a double dose spaced out by either 3 or 4 weeks, vaccine on arrival isn't going to be an option - so the airlines will be required to enforce this
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:10 am
by assfly
Knowing how Australia protect their flora and fauna from harm, this announcements does seem fairly inevitable.
assfly wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:29 am
You still need a yellow fever certificate to travel around East African, and to certain other countries. For those who aren't aware of if by the time they travel, there are medics available at all airports and border crossing who can administered the vaccine and give you a certificate or a stamp in your medical passport. Quite simple really, and people just get on with it.
And the Caribbean, and Central; America.
There's a bunch of other proof of vaccine requirements for all sorts of countries, especially once you start considering specifically if you're travelling from high risk areas. Polio, Menigitis, Dengue etc.
Given Australia's and New Zealand's response to Covid it's almost a cast iron certainty that they will require proof of Covid vaccination to allow entry - and most other countries will require this as soon I would think (Canada would be one, and I would actually expect the USA to require this, even if it's still out of control internally). Of course, with all the vaccines so far requiring a double dose spaced out by either 3 or 4 weeks, vaccine on arrival isn't going to be an option - so the airlines will be required to enforce this
Yanks travelling to Hawaii this month (the islands opened up again 2 weeks ago) have to have proof of a negative Covid test 48 hours before boarding. No exceptions. The vaccine is just the next step and if you don't like it, take your next holiday in Sturges instead.
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm
Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.
This.
Good move by Qantas imho. Who would be selfish enough to not get a safe available vaccine but then expect to fly in a plane full of other people who did get it?
A comment that takes us another step down the road to the end of any semblance of civil liberties. Doubtless you are in the "nothing to fear, nothing to hide camp"?
But in answer to your post
1) Safe as defined by who? No vaccine in the history of epidemiology will have been rushed to market with as little testing as any of these. I'm no anti vaxer nut but on balance of risk (I'm healthy and EVIDENCE is COVID will be = to a cold to me should I contract it) I'll stick to the principle of no unnecessary medical intervention be it cosmetic surgery or drugs.
2) Even if there were zero doubts over safety (we'll ignore efficacy on a virus that already has at least 4000 known mutations), why should anyone be compelled to take a treatment for a illness he does not have or is at risk from? Especially since Govts are stating how effective and rapid their testing capabilities are.
3) Why limit this to COVID? Influenza, for example, is a massive killer of the elderly and last time I looked, the elderly were entitled to fly too so shouldn't Qantas be demanding all passengers have had a flu vaccine as well?
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:01 pm
by Torquemada 1420
assfly wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:10 am
Knowing how Australia protect their flora and fauna from harm, this announcements does seem fairly inevitable.
Here’s another one: “How about not being a dick about Covid?”
Thanks
Smarmy cunt.
He's right though.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:05 pm
by Biffer
Vaccines have two uses. 1) To protect the individual from disease and 2) to prevent disease outbreaks and protect wider society. It's indicative of the times we live in that there are people who only think it's about the first of these.
Here’s another one: “How about not being a dick about Covid?”
Thanks
Smarmy cunt.
He's right though.
plenty of people have posted their own views without resorting to being a smart arse. its one thing to differ in opinion. its another to be a supercilious prick.
He could be right but there is no need for the associated condescension.
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:25 pm
by Sandstorm
I said thanks
Re: QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:33 pm
by Insane_Homer
Steve wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:10 pm
plenty of people have posted their own views without resorting to being a smart arse. its one thing to differ in opinion. its another to be a supercilious prick.
He could be right but there is no need for the associated condescension.
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:52 pm
Smarmy cunt.
Steve wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:10 pm
plenty of people have posted their own views without resorting to being a smart arse. its one thing to differ in opinion. its another to be a supercilious prick.
He could be right but there is no need for the associated condescension.
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:52 pm
Smarmy cunt.
Steve wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:36 pm
he started it.
without resorting
Maybe you show some of the restraint you preach, makes you look like less of a dick when trying to make your point without resorting to the exact same thing you're complain about?
Steve wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:36 pm
he started it.
without resorting
Maybe you show some of the restraint you preach, makes you look like less of a dick when trying to make your point without resorting to the exact same thing you're complain about?
yeah nah. he cant be oppressor and oppressed at the same time.
