Official Match Thread - England v Ireland

[JM2K6]

15 slaps the ball forward on a cross kick, then players dive straight over a ruck

Reassuringly familiar refereeing

[sockwithaticket]

I watched that half on the tablet while cooking and eating, so maybe I missed something, but why did we get no advantage, scrum or otherwise, for their 15 tapping the ball down and forwards towards the end?

[JM2K6]

I watched that half on the tablet while cooking and eating, so maybe I missed something, but why did we get no advantage, scrum or otherwise, for their 15 tapping the ball down and forwards towards the end?

No idea.

[sockwithaticket]

I watched that half on the tablet while cooking and eating, so maybe I missed something, but why did we get no advantage, scrum or otherwise, for their 15 tapping the ball down and forwards towards the end?

No idea.

Something else for the young ref to discuss with his assessor then.

[JM2K6]

I watched that half on the tablet while cooking and eating, so maybe I missed something, but why did we get no advantage, scrum or otherwise, for their 15 tapping the ball down and forwards towards the end?

No idea.

Something else for the young ref to discuss with his assessor then.

Yup. Kind of a madcap game so not surprised he struggled at times with both teams

[fishfoodie]

I know Mullins is decent, but what was this lad doing on the bench?

He isn't bad for his 2nd start.

Oh ..... and he's one of triples !

[Margin__Walker]

I know Mullins is decent, but what was this lad doing on the bench?

He isn't bad for his 2nd start.

Oh ..... and he's one of triples !

2nd start?

Was talking about King. The lad who came off the bench and replaced Mullins.

[fishfoodie]

I know Mullins is decent, but what was this lad doing on the bench?

He isn't bad for his 2nd start.

Oh ..... and he's one of triples !

2nd start?

Was talking about King. The lad who came off the bench and replaced Mullins.

Yeah your right. Last week against France was his 2nd start.

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah your right. Last week against France was his 2nd start.

Gotcha. Looks another decent one.

[sefton]

I don’t know why OS watches rugby, ballet seems more up his street.

[fishfoodie]

Look on the bright side Lads.

Eddie definitely cant pick Ewels next week

[Hugo]

Assumed that the sending off would make for a boring, one sided contest, ended up being the match of the championship IMO. Utterly engrossing. England kept the floodgates closed 10-15 minutes longer than expected.

Hugo Keenan caught the eye for a couple (maybe three) brilliant catches in the second half when England had whittled the Irish lead down and seemed to have a lot of momentum. Also, got to give credit to Sexton for taking that hammering from Itoje and not coughing up possession. Key moments in the match from my point of view.

Will definitely watch again in midweek.

[Ovals]

Assumed that the sending off would make for a boring, one sided contest, ended up being the match of the championship IMO. Utterly engrossing. England kept the floodgates closed 10-15 minutes longer than expected.

Hugo Keenan caught the eye for a couple (maybe three) brilliant catches in the second half when England had whittled the Irish lead down and seemed to have a lot of momentum. Also, got to give credit to Sexton for taking that hammering from Itoje and not coughing up possession. Key moments in the match from my point of view.

Will definitely watch again in midweek.

TBH, it was only our dominance in the scrum that kept us in the game - without that, unexpected bonus, we'd have been dead and buried by HT. The extent to which we mullered the Irish scrum was very surprising - we have done that for years. It gave us several easy exits from deep in our 22 and some very cheap points.

[Slick]

He was swatted out the way regularly

Back to Farrell then ey?

It's nice that Slick is so concerned for Smith at international level, but given he's played against most of the major nations with one poor performance in defence, I don't think any England fans are too worried. No more than we were with Ford at 10.

Having watched the highlights on the BBC I’m minded to double down on this. How many times was he out of position, hanging around in useless positions, racing out at the wrong time, it was very poor. Can’t blame him for getting dragged along the ground like a rag doll at every tackle, but certainly can for being so obviously badly positioned

[shaggy]

Assumed that the sending off would make for a boring, one sided contest, ended up being the match of the championship IMO. Utterly engrossing. England kept the floodgates closed 10-15 minutes longer than expected.

Hugo Keenan caught the eye for a couple (maybe three) brilliant catches in the second half when England had whittled the Irish lead down and seemed to have a lot of momentum. Also, got to give credit to Sexton for taking that hammering from Itoje and not coughing up possession. Key moments in the match from my point of view.

Will definitely watch again in midweek.

TBH, it was only our dominance in the scrum that kept us in the game - without that, unexpected bonus, we'd have been dead and buried by HT. The extent to which we mullered the Irish scrum was very surprising - we have done that for years. It gave us several easy exits from deep in our 22 and some very cheap points.

I always find it amusing when people confidently talk about front rows en bloc and compare results against opposition when the critical factor is individual matchups. Furlong can be part of a very successful scrum and beat all comers but as soon as he comes up against a loosehead who puts him in trouble there is nothing the rest can do to make amends.

[JM2K6]

Back to Farrell then ey?

It's nice that Slick is so concerned for Smith at international level, but given he's played against most of the major nations with one poor performance in defence, I don't think any England fans are too worried. No more than we were with Ford at 10.

Having watched the highlights on the BBC I’m minded to double down on this. How many times was he out of position, hanging around in useless positions, racing out at the wrong time, it was very poor. Can’t blame him for getting dragged along the ground like a rag doll at every tackle, but certainly can for being so obviously badly positioned

You must be very worried about hogg, Russell, et al having made fewer tackles and missed more against the mighty Italians

[Torquemada 1420]

It's nice that Slick is so concerned for Smith at international level, but given he's played against most of the major nations with one poor performance in defence, I don't think any England fans are too worried. No more than we were with Ford at 10.

Having watched the highlights on the BBC I’m minded to double down on this. How many times was he out of position, hanging around in useless positions, racing out at the wrong time, it was very poor. Can’t blame him for getting dragged along the ground like a rag doll at every tackle, but certainly can for being so obviously badly positioned

You must be very worried about hogg, Russell, et al having made fewer tackles and missed more against the mighty Italians

Will you 2 f**k off? We've already established the worst FH in the comp is Ntamack.

[Slick]

It's nice that Slick is so concerned for Smith at international level, but given he's played against most of the major nations with one poor performance in defence, I don't think any England fans are too worried. No more than we were with Ford at 10.

Having watched the highlights on the BBC I’m minded to double down on this. How many times was he out of position, hanging around in useless positions, racing out at the wrong time, it was very poor. Can’t blame him for getting dragged along the ground like a rag doll at every tackle, but certainly can for being so obviously badly positioned

You must be very worried about hogg, Russell, et al having made fewer tackles and missed more against the mighty Italians

Your fixation on stats over what’s actually in front of you is constantly funny

[Paddington Bear]

There is absolutely no way that one try from attacking play in three matches would be passed off as one of those things with Faz at 10. Like Smith a lot but serious room for improvement

[JM2K6]

Having watched the highlights on the BBC I’m minded to double down on this. How many times was he out of position, hanging around in useless positions, racing out at the wrong time, it was very poor. Can’t blame him for getting dragged along the ground like a rag doll at every tackle, but certainly can for being so obviously badly positioned

You must be very worried about hogg, Russell, et al having made fewer tackles and missed more against the mighty Italians

Your fixation on stats over what’s actually in front of you is constantly funny

Yes, it's common that weak players out of position make lots of tackles and miss very few, while players you constantly boost for their defending make fewer and miss more. Everyone knows that missed tackles are better than tackles made. Uh.

Smith isn't a big guy and is going to make softer tackles than a lot of other players, well done for spotting that. You are slightly obsessed with him though, probably because he's a hyped young English talent who is mentioned in the same breath as a Scottish player of a similar type. Similar to the whole curry/Watson farrago during the Lions.

No English fan is worried about Smith's defence, certainly not after a brutal game where despite defending a man down all game, as our "weakest" defender he made plenty and missed one.

[JM2K6]

There is absolutely no way that one try from attacking play in three matches would be passed off as one of those things with Faz at 10. Like Smith a lot but serious room for improvement

You don't think we'd be making the exact same points about the lack of carriers in the back line and the lack of pace in the back three?

[fishfoodie]

There is absolutely no way that one try from attacking play in three matches would be passed off as one of those things with Faz at 10. Like Smith a lot but serious room for improvement

It takes time to bed in a relationship between SH & OH; & not putting together two younger players before now, is one of Eddies biggest failures.

And if you're trying to build up those combinations; it obviously helps if you don't continually pick key players around them out of position, just to reverse ferret for the next week. International Rugby is tough enough, without some prick picking the players positions out of a hat every week.

[Slick]

You must be very worried about hogg, Russell, et al having made fewer tackles and missed more against the mighty Italians

Your fixation on stats over what’s actually in front of you is constantly funny

Yes, it's common that weak players out of position make lots of tackles and miss very few, while players you constantly boost for their defending make fewer and miss more. Everyone knows that missed tackles are better than tackles made. Uh.

Smith isn't a big guy and is going to make softer tackles than a lot of other players, well done for spotting that. You are slightly obsessed with him though, probably because he's a hyped young English talent who is mentioned in the same breath as a Scottish player of a similar type. Similar to the whole curry/Watson farrago during the Lions.

No English fan is worried about Smith's defence, certainly not after a brutal game where despite defending a man down all game, as our "weakest" defender he made plenty and missed one.

Honestly no idea what you are on about in the first paragraph so I’ll move on.

No idea what you are on about in the 2nd paragraph so ill move on.

Maybe your not ( 3rd para) but you should be. I’ll not be in the least bit surprised to see him dropped for the France game. I think it’s fair to point out that I am never wrong about over hyped English players - Brown and May for example

[Ovals]

Your fixation on stats over what’s actually in front of you is constantly funny

Yes, it's common that weak players out of position make lots of tackles and miss very few, while players you constantly boost for their defending make fewer and miss more. Everyone knows that missed tackles are better than tackles made. Uh.

Smith isn't a big guy and is going to make softer tackles than a lot of other players, well done for spotting that. You are slightly obsessed with him though, probably because he's a hyped young English talent who is mentioned in the same breath as a Scottish player of a similar type. Similar to the whole curry/Watson farrago during the Lions.

No English fan is worried about Smith's defence, certainly not after a brutal game where despite defending a man down all game, as our "weakest" defender he made plenty and missed one.

Honestly no idea what you are on about in the first paragraph so I’ll move on.

No idea what you are on about in the 2nd paragraph so ill move on.

Maybe your not ( 3rd para) but you should be. I’ll not be in the least bit surprised to see him dropped for the France game. I think it’s fair to point out that I am never wrong about over hyped English players - Brown and May for example

You've got your head up your arse if you think Smith is going to be dropped.

[Slick]

Yes, it's common that weak players out of position make lots of tackles and miss very few, while players you constantly boost for their defending make fewer and miss more. Everyone knows that missed tackles are better than tackles made. Uh.

Smith isn't a big guy and is going to make softer tackles than a lot of other players, well done for spotting that. You are slightly obsessed with him though, probably because he's a hyped young English talent who is mentioned in the same breath as a Scottish player of a similar type. Similar to the whole curry/Watson farrago during the Lions.

No English fan is worried about Smith's defence, certainly not after a brutal game where despite defending a man down all game, as our "weakest" defender he made plenty and missed one.

Honestly no idea what you are on about in the first paragraph so I’ll move on.

No idea what you are on about in the 2nd paragraph so ill move on.

Maybe your not ( 3rd para) but you should be. I’ll not be in the least bit surprised to see him dropped for the France game. I think it’s fair to point out that I am never wrong about over hyped English players - Brown and May for example

You've got your head up your arse if you think Smith is going to be dropped.

You don’t think France are going to relentlessly attack him? Might be a bit of a stretch, but wouldn’t be surprised

[Ovals]

Honestly no idea what you are on about in the first paragraph so I’ll move on.

No idea what you are on about in the 2nd paragraph so ill move on.

Maybe your not ( 3rd para) but you should be. I’ll not be in the least bit surprised to see him dropped for the France game. I think it’s fair to point out that I am never wrong about over hyped English players - Brown and May for example

You've got your head up your arse if you think Smith is going to be dropped.

You don’t think France are going to relentlessly attack him? Might be a bit of a stretch, but wouldn’t be surprised

He's now played against most of the best international side - he's always targetted - and comes through well enough to have picked up 2 MoM awards in the last 4 games. And, your utter lack of knowledge of the England players is there for all to see, as the only viable option is Ford, who is no stronger in the tackle than Smith.

Smith is no Johnny Wilkinson, in defence, but his tackling has not been a real issue in any of our games - including yesterday when he might have been more exposed due to being a man down.

Seriously, none of us is worried about that aspect of his game - neither have any pundits expressed a dim view of that part of his game.

[JM2K6]

Of course France are going to attack him. He's a 10. It's rugby 101. There's been a handful of 10s in international rugby where it's been a mistake to target them.

[Paddington Bear]

There is absolutely no way that one try from attacking play in three matches would be passed off as one of those things with Faz at 10. Like Smith a lot but serious room for improvement

It takes time to bed in a relationship between SH & OH; & not putting together two younger players before now, is one of Eddies biggest failures.

And if you're trying to build up those combinations; it obviously helps if you don't continually pick key players around them out of position, just to reverse ferret for the next week. International Rugby is tough enough, without some prick picking the players positions out of a hat every week.

I agree largely - I like Smith. He’s a serious talent with a good head. He’ll be a much better player in a year.

[Paddington Bear]

Honestly no idea what you are on about in the first paragraph so I’ll move on.

No idea what you are on about in the 2nd paragraph so ill move on.

Maybe your not ( 3rd para) but you should be. I’ll not be in the least bit surprised to see him dropped for the France game. I think it’s fair to point out that I am never wrong about over hyped English players - Brown and May for example

You've got your head up your arse if you think Smith is going to be dropped.

You don’t think France are going to relentlessly attack him? Might be a bit of a stretch, but wouldn’t be surprised

We managed this very effectively against SA in the autumn fwiw.

[Slick]

There is absolutely no way that one try from attacking play in three matches would be passed off as one of those things with Faz at 10. Like Smith a lot but serious room for improvement

It takes time to bed in a relationship between SH & OH; & not putting together two younger players before now, is one of Eddies biggest failures.

And if you're trying to build up those combinations; it obviously helps if you don't continually pick key players around them out of position, just to reverse ferret for the next week. International Rugby is tough enough, without some prick picking the players positions out of a hat every week.

I agree largely - I like Smith. He’s a serious talent with a good head. He’ll be a much better player in a year.

I agree really, not being completely serious with the criticism. I actually feel a bit for him with all the hype, it's not his fault. Not his fault he has a seriously annoying face either.

Completely agree he will be much better in a year. One thing I've found fascinating watching him in this 6N, and this is NOT a criticism, is how much a new 10 has to learn at this level. The 50+ cappers he has been playing against just have so much better game management and decision making which can only come with experience. The other thing is how important a 12 is to a stand off, he is getting no help at all outside him which means he is having to force a lot - see Finn against Wales and France - and I understand he has that support at Quins.

[SaintK]

It takes time to bed in a relationship between SH & OH; & not putting together two younger players before now, is one of Eddies biggest failures.

And if you're trying to build up those combinations; it obviously helps if you don't continually pick key players around them out of position, just to reverse ferret for the next week. International Rugby is tough enough, without some prick picking the players positions out of a hat every week.

I agree largely - I like Smith. He’s a serious talent with a good head. He’ll be a much better player in a year.

I agree really, not being completely serious with the criticism. I actually feel a bit for him with all the hype, it's not his fault. Not his fault he has a seriously annoying face either.

Completely agree he will be much better in a year. One thing I've found fascinating watching him in this 6N, and this is NOT a criticism, is how much a new 10 has to learn at this level. The 50+ cappers he has been playing against just have so much better game management and decision making which can only come with experience. The other thing is how important a 12 is to a stand off, he is getting no help at all outside him which means he is having to force a lot - see Finn against Wales and France - and I understand he has that support at Quins.

........and there we have it
Interesting that Gatland, Townsend and Tandy were happy to fly him out to SA as a replacement for the Lions. Not too many concerns about his defence and game management there then?

[Crash669]

Slick's gone full Torq. Never go full Torq.

[sockwithaticket]

I strongly suspect that Marcus annoying people over a certain age has more to do with his lovely hair than anything. Some jealousy perhaps that they're unable, either folically or socially, able to get away with a similar 'do.

[Uncle fester]

Assumed that the sending off would make for a boring, one sided contest, ended up being the match of the championship IMO. Utterly engrossing. England kept the floodgates closed 10-15 minutes longer than expected.

Hugo Keenan caught the eye for a couple (maybe three) brilliant catches in the second half when England had whittled the Irish lead down and seemed to have a lot of momentum. Also, got to give credit to Sexton for taking that hammering from Itoje and not coughing up possession. Key moments in the match from my point of view.

Will definitely watch again in midweek.

TBH, it was only our dominance in the scrum that kept us in the game - without that, unexpected bonus, we'd have been dead and buried by HT. The extent to which we mullered the Irish scrum was very surprising - we have done that for years. It gave us several easy exits from deep in our 22 and some very cheap points.

I always find it amusing when people confidently talk about front rows en bloc and compare results against opposition when the critical factor is individual matchups. Furlong can be part of a very successful scrum and beat all comers but as soon as he comes up against a loosehead who puts him in trouble there is nothing the rest can do to make amends.

I'm not convinced it was just down to Furlong. Healy has been threading water for some time and Sheehan is an unusually tall hooker. Lot of problems to sort out there.

[Paddington Bear]

I strongly suspect that Marcus annoying people over a certain age has more to do with his lovely hair than anything. Some jealousy perhaps that they're unable, either folically or socially, able to get away with a similar 'do.

For those with an instagram account, his girlfriend is *ahem* worth a follow

[sockwithaticket]

I strongly suspect that Marcus annoying people over a certain age has more to do with his lovely hair than anything. Some jealousy perhaps that they're unable, either folically or socially, able to get away with a similar 'do.

For those with an instagram account, his girlfriend is *ahem* worth a follow

I remember seeing her in the crowd during the Summer test he played. Can only say fair play to the lad. While not being a bad looking fella, he's definitely punching above his weight.

[JM2K6]

TBH, it was only our dominance in the scrum that kept us in the game - without that, unexpected bonus, we'd have been dead and buried by HT. The extent to which we mullered the Irish scrum was very surprising - we have done that for years. It gave us several easy exits from deep in our 22 and some very cheap points.

I always find it amusing when people confidently talk about front rows en bloc and compare results against opposition when the critical factor is individual matchups. Furlong can be part of a very successful scrum and beat all comers but as soon as he comes up against a loosehead who puts him in trouble there is nothing the rest can do to make amends.

I'm not convinced it was just down to Furlong. Healy has been threading water for some time and Sheehan is an unusually tall hooker. Lot of problems to sort out there.

Certainly I think Will Stuart(!) went clean through Healy at one point.

[sockwithaticket]

For those with an instagram account, his girlfriend is *ahem* worth a follow

I remember seeing her in the crowd during the Summer test he played. Can only say fair play to the lad. While not being a bad looking fella, he's definitely punching above his weight.

Smith is an awful looking yoke. Here he is on a night out

That seems to be a picture of Ringrose after a brow pluck and some lippy.

[petej]

TBH, it was only our dominance in the scrum that kept us in the game - without that, unexpected bonus, we'd have been dead and buried by HT. The extent to which we mullered the Irish scrum was very surprising - we have done that for years. It gave us several easy exits from deep in our 22 and some very cheap points.

I always find it amusing when people confidently talk about front rows en bloc and compare results against opposition when the critical factor is individual matchups. Furlong can be part of a very successful scrum and beat all comers but as soon as he comes up against a loosehead who puts him in trouble there is nothing the rest can do to make amends.

I'm not convinced it was just down to Furlong. Healy has been threading water for some time and Sheehan is an unusually tall hooker. Lot of problems to sort out there.

Inclined to agree. If you have a weak scrummaging hooker even the best props can't compensate for it. England had their stronger scrummaging hooker playing and genge is very good.

[SaintK]

I strongly suspect that Marcus annoying people over a certain age has more to do with his lovely hair than anything. Some jealousy perhaps that they're unable, either folically or socially, able to get away with a similar 'do.

For those with an instagram account, his girlfriend is *ahem* worth a follow

Attended a rather posh wedding at The Hurlingham Club a couple of weeks ago (we're the poor relations from the other side of the tracks) and was sat next to a very good looking young Henrietta type at the reception. Conversation got round to rugby and she confessed to being a Quins supporter, she also confessed to having been out with Marcus Smith a few times. She said he was a very sweet but as boring as hell with very little to talk about other than rugby.
Now there's a surprise, it's the only thing he's been doing since he left school