Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[JM2K6]

Jase listing the sponsors - fair enough got to pay the bills.

The Lions is a grossly commercial enterprise that makes an absolute packet. This is all part of it.

[Big D]

Gavin Hastings "Lions special etc etc etc"

"Sam would you echo that?"

Do we really need this?

They had to when that had Bowe and Billy Whizz. Didn't need any of them.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Bundee Aki?

Interesting. Been solid but hardly set the world on fire has he?

[clydecloggie]

did anyone do a breakdown by country? 8 Scots - I may have to bite the bullet and start supporting these cats.

Jonny Gray and Jamie Ritchie the only ones in the conversation not to make it, and our hookers were injured when it mattered otherwise Brown and/or McInally perhaps could have been involved.

[salanya]

Not sure what I was expecting but feel a bit underwhelmed by that.

Same here - some very 'meh' selections.

And anything that involves Gatland will always be underwhelming to me.

[Big D]

Bundee Aki?

That's one of the big shocks for me.

[assfly]

From a Bok point of view, very interesting side with some serious leftfield picks. Gatland is definitely planning to spring some surprises.

[Paddington Bear]

From a Bok point of view, very interesting side with some serious leftfield picks. Gatland is definitely planning to spring some surprises.

Not really, he's planning on smashing it up through the middle.

[Yr Alban]

Harris, Hogg, Price, Russell, VDM, Fagerson, Sutherland, Watson

Happy with that.

Bloody delighted here. I was trying to keep my expectations down to 5 or 6. Been hurt too many times.

Actually feels like fair representation for the first time in forever. The only one who surprises me is Price, though if you’d mentioned Harris 6 months ago I’d have laughed at you. Ritchie’s time will come, he’s still young. Jonny Gray is the one I really feel bad for.

[clydecloggie]

From a Bok point of view, very interesting side with some serious leftfield picks. Gatland is definitely planning to spring some surprises.

Welcome to the Toonie Tombola. Us Scots are used to it.

[ScarfaceClaw]

From a Bok point of view, very interesting side with some serious leftfield picks. Gatland is definitely planning to spring some surprises.

Daly at half back for the first test type surprises?

[Big D]

No Ringrose and Sinckler were probably the biggest shocks for me.

May on past history probably deserved a pick.

[Big D]

From a Bok point of view, very interesting side with some serious leftfield picks. Gatland is definitely planning to spring some surprises.

Some of the picks are designed to be rock solid defensively. Harris is picked for his defence.

Looks like they plan to move the boks around, there is some big lads there but they are all mobile.

[JM2K6]

Bundee Aki?

Interesting. Been solid but hardly set the world on fire has he?

Solid is overselling it. He's been a one-trick pony and that trick has rarely worked. Desperately limited player at international level.

Weird fucking squad. Form doesn't appear to count for Mako, Daly, Farrell, Aki. Lawes picked on hope. Underhill ignored in a squad light on actual opensides. Only two actual tens (a very Gatland thing to do) in Russell and Biggar who offer completely different styles of play, and Farrell presumably an option as a 3rd despite his continued shitness at 10 for internationals, so Ford misses out. Uninspiring set of 9s, thought Cooney might be an outside chance and would go well in SA. Johnny Hill picked largely off his excellent club form as his international career so far has been a mess of ill-discipline and stupid mistakes. Porter ahead of Sinckler. No Ringrose in a squad with few actual 13s.

Think all the Scots who deserved to go got picked. Gatland did well to avoid picking James Ryan. Back three options are tasty. We all know Gatland is more than happy to pick his team before the first training session, and I think there's a decent 1st XV in there.

Edit: Oh, forgot J Gray. Definitely should've been there, probably ahead of Hill or even Lawes. Strange call.

[Big D]

Bundee Aki?

Interesting. Been solid but hardly set the world on fire has he?

Solid is overselling it. He's been a one-trick pony and that trick has rarely worked. Desperately limited player at international level.

Weird fucking squad. Form doesn't appear to count for Mako, Daly, Farrell, Aki. Lawes picked on hope. Underhill ignored in a squad light on actual opensides. Only two actual tens (a very Gatland thing to do) in Russell and Biggar who offer completely different styles of play, and Farrell presumably an option as a 3rd despite his continued shitness at 10 for internationals, so Ford misses out. Uninspiring set of 9s, thought Cooney might be an outside chance and would go well in SA. Johnny Hill picked largely off his excellent club form as his international career so far has been a mess of ill-discipline and stupid mistakes. Porter ahead of Sinckler. No Ringrose in a squad with few actual 13s.

Think all the Scots who deserved to go got picked. Gatland did well to avoid picking James Ryan. Back three options are tasty. We all know Gatland is more than happy to pick his team before the first training session, and I think there's a decent 1st XV in there.

Edit: Oh, forgot J Gray. Definitely should've been there, probably ahead of Hill or even Lawes. Strange call.

I think even if Cooney was involved 9 was always going to be a bit "meh".

I don't get not taking Ringrose at all.

[Lobby]

Bundee Aki?

Interesting. Been solid but hardly set the world on fire has he?

Solid is overselling it. He's been a one-trick pony and that trick has rarely worked. Desperately limited player at international level.

Weird fucking squad. Form doesn't appear to count for Mako, Daly, Farrell, Aki. Lawes picked on hope. Underhill ignored in a squad light on actual opensides. Only two actual tens (a very Gatland thing to do) in Russell and Biggar who offer completely different styles of play, and Farrell presumably an option as a 3rd despite his continued shitness at 10 for internationals, so Ford misses out. Uninspiring set of 9s, thought Cooney might be an outside chance and would go well in SA. Johnny Hill picked largely off his excellent club form as his international career so far has been a mess of ill-discipline and stupid mistakes. Porter ahead of Sinckler. No Ringrose in a squad with few actual 13s.

Think all the Scots who deserved to go got picked. Gatland did well to avoid picking James Ryan. Back three options are tasty. We all know Gatland is more than happy to pick his team before the first training session, and I think there's a decent 1st XV in there.

Edit: Oh, forgot J Gray. Definitely should've been there, probably ahead of Hill or even Lawes. Strange call.

Sexton’s omission will trigger the Swarm, but difficult to argue that he should be there on form. Agree that hill and Lawes are strange picks, given that Gray has been ignored. I’d have included Underhill as well.

[Kawazaki]

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.


37 player squad.

[Tichtheid]

Ringrose and Gray are the two omissions that stick out for me.

[Lobby]

did anyone do a breakdown by country? 8 Scots - I may have to bite the bullet and start supporting these cats.

Jonny Gray and Jamie Ritchie the only ones in the conversation not to make it, and our hookers were injured when it mattered otherwise Brown and/or McInally perhaps could have been involved.

Pretty even split, 11 England players, 10 Wales players, and eight each from Scotland and Ireland.

[JM2K6]

Interesting. Been solid but hardly set the world on fire has he?

Solid is overselling it. He's been a one-trick pony and that trick has rarely worked. Desperately limited player at international level.

Weird fucking squad. Form doesn't appear to count for Mako, Daly, Farrell, Aki. Lawes picked on hope. Underhill ignored in a squad light on actual opensides. Only two actual tens (a very Gatland thing to do) in Russell and Biggar who offer completely different styles of play, and Farrell presumably an option as a 3rd despite his continued shitness at 10 for internationals, so Ford misses out. Uninspiring set of 9s, thought Cooney might be an outside chance and would go well in SA. Johnny Hill picked largely off his excellent club form as his international career so far has been a mess of ill-discipline and stupid mistakes. Porter ahead of Sinckler. No Ringrose in a squad with few actual 13s.

Think all the Scots who deserved to go got picked. Gatland did well to avoid picking James Ryan. Back three options are tasty. We all know Gatland is more than happy to pick his team before the first training session, and I think there's a decent 1st XV in there.

Edit: Oh, forgot J Gray. Definitely should've been there, probably ahead of Hill or even Lawes. Strange call.

Sexton’s omission will trigger the Swarm, but difficult to argue that he should be there on form. Agree that hill and Lawes are strange picks, given that Gray has been ignored. I’d have included Underhill as well.

We have lots of second rows, with several of them basically covering blindside. Drop Lawes, put Underhill in there. Drop Hill, put Gray in there. Easy.

Sexton's fragility will have counted against him more than his form, I expect.

[Lobby]

Solid is overselling it. He's been a one-trick pony and that trick has rarely worked. Desperately limited player at international level.

Weird fucking squad. Form doesn't appear to count for Mako, Daly, Farrell, Aki. Lawes picked on hope. Underhill ignored in a squad light on actual opensides. Only two actual tens (a very Gatland thing to do) in Russell and Biggar who offer completely different styles of play, and Farrell presumably an option as a 3rd despite his continued shitness at 10 for internationals, so Ford misses out. Uninspiring set of 9s, thought Cooney might be an outside chance and would go well in SA. Johnny Hill picked largely off his excellent club form as his international career so far has been a mess of ill-discipline and stupid mistakes. Porter ahead of Sinckler. No Ringrose in a squad with few actual 13s.

Think all the Scots who deserved to go got picked. Gatland did well to avoid picking James Ryan. Back three options are tasty. We all know Gatland is more than happy to pick his team before the first training session, and I think there's a decent 1st XV in there.

Edit: Oh, forgot J Gray. Definitely should've been there, probably ahead of Hill or even Lawes. Strange call.

Sexton’s omission will trigger the Swarm, but difficult to argue that he should be there on form. Agree that hill and Lawes are strange picks, given that Gray has been ignored. I’d have included Underhill as well.

We have lots of second rows, with several of them basically covering blindside. Drop Lawes, put Underhill in there. Drop Hill, put Gray in there. Easy.

Sexton's fragility will have counted against him more than his form, I expect.

That’s what I would have done (Gray and Underhill).

[Kawazaki]

Sam Underhill is a big omission.

[ASMO]

Of the England picks, for the test team i only see Maro, LCD, Curry and Watson as realistic contenders as starters, the rest are dirt trackers/bin juice

[Hal Jordan]

A solid chunk of this squad will be injured either before or during the tour, given past indicators. Anyone likely to do a Hartley?

[Uncle fester]

I don't get not taking Ringrose at all.

Didn't expect him to make it. Form has been very mixed. Once outside Leinster comfort zone, his issues get exposed. Check PR and you'll find lads admitting that he should have been developed as a winger.

[JM2K6]

Of the England picks, for the test team i only see Maro, LCD, Curry and Watson as realistic contenders as starters, the rest are dirt trackers/bin juice

Somewhat scarily, Daly is likely to be 2nd choice for 13 and if Henshaw breaks...

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

[Uncle fester]

Sexton's fragility will have counted against him more than his form, I expect.

This. He was pretty good in some games, particularly the England game but he's held together by duct tape these days.

[Hal Jordan]

Of the England picks, for the test team i only see Maro, LCD, Curry and Watson as realistic contenders as starters, the rest are dirt trackers/bin juice

Somewhat scarily, Daly is likely to be 2nd choice for 13 and if Henshaw breaks...

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

Move Aki out one and pick Farrell. Midfield solidity.

[JM2K6]

Of the England picks, for the test team i only see Maro, LCD, Curry and Watson as realistic contenders as starters, the rest are dirt trackers/bin juice

Somewhat scarily, Daly is likely to be 2nd choice for 13 and if Henshaw breaks...

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

Move Aki out one and pick Farrell. Midfield solidity.

I hate you

[clydecloggie]

Of the England picks, for the test team i only see Maro, LCD, Curry and Watson as realistic contenders as starters, the rest are dirt trackers/bin juice

Somewhat scarily, Daly is likely to be 2nd choice for 13 and if Henshaw breaks...

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

A defensive genius at 13? Nah, Gats will never go for that in a Test Lions team...

If it comes down to Daly or Harris it'll be Harris at 13, surely.

[Big D]

I don't get not taking Ringrose at all.

Didn't expect him to make it. Form has been very mixed. Once outside Leinster comfort zone, his issues get exposed. Check PR and you'll find lads admitting that he should have been developed as a winger.

Maybe i just think that because of the balance of the centres picked seems a little off. Although I say this as a former second row/back row!

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

I suspect he will be key to helping Tandy's system bed in. 13 seems to be the key spot for the way Scotland defends. Few of us had money on him getting in after the France game.

[Yr Alban]

Of the England picks, for the test team i only see Maro, LCD, Curry and Watson as realistic contenders as starters, the rest are dirt trackers/bin juice

Somewhat scarily, Daly is likely to be 2nd choice for 13 and if Henshaw breaks...

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

Harris has defied a lot of expectations (including mine) just to get into the squad. Not sure I’d rule anything out just yet.

[salanya]

No big Swarm issues really.

Shame that Sexton misses out, but he has been very fragile - not very useful for a tour.
Ryan has been lacking in gametime, and since his return in consistency/impact. Shame, but that's the way (though apparently not for all selections, but that's a different conversation)
The likes of Stander and VdF maybe a bit unlucky, but it's Gatland - they'll be too small for him.

Ringrose has been injured a bit and not in great form yet, so his omission was already being debated. But that Aki is selected ahead of him says everything about Gatland.

[I like neeps]

Who is England's TH prop? Is it still Sinkler?

[JM2K6]

Who is England's TH prop? Is it still Sinkler?

Yes.

[I like neeps]

No big Swarm issues really.

Shame that Sexton misses out, but he has been very fragile - not very useful for a tour.
Ryan has been lacking in gametime, and since his return in consistency/impact. Shame, but that's the way (though apparently not for all selections, but that's a different conversation)
The likes of Stander and VdF maybe a bit unlucky, but it's Gatland - they'll be too small for him.

Ringrose has been injured a bit and not in great form yet, so his omission was already being debated. But that Aki is selected ahead of him says everything about Gatland.

If I was Irish Simmons over Stander would annoy me.

He obviously great for Exeter but seems to me Gatland poking Eddie in the eye.

[JM2K6]

No big Swarm issues really.

Shame that Sexton misses out, but he has been very fragile - not very useful for a tour.
Ryan has been lacking in gametime, and since his return in consistency/impact. Shame, but that's the way (though apparently not for all selections, but that's a different conversation)
The likes of Stander and VdF maybe a bit unlucky, but it's Gatland - they'll be too small for him.

Ringrose has been injured a bit and not in great form yet, so his omission was already being debated. But that Aki is selected ahead of him says everything about Gatland.

If I was Irish Simmons over Stander would annoy me.

He obviously great for Exeter but seems to me Gatland poking Eddie in the eye.

I think Gatland recognises that Simmonds does what no other back row can. Stander... well, he couldn't get in ahead of Conan, which is the bigger problem I think.

[Hal Jordan]

Somewhat scarily, Daly is likely to be 2nd choice for 13 and if Henshaw breaks...

(Harris is a great pick but I don't expect Gatland to consider him for the Test team)

Move Aki out one and pick Farrell. Midfield solidity.

I hate you

Johnny South African doesn't like it up him! Our bold, brave Lions will give them what for, even the ones from Ireland we have to pretend are still part of the glorious British Empire for the purposes of the tour!

[tcc_dc]

As an Irish supporter, my problem like you all stated was Conan over Stander....

Simmonds I get...

And I love to hate the English...but I love Underhill's game.

[salanya]

From what I've seen of Simmons, it's a bit of a toss up between him and Stander. Good, but not outstanding.
With Conan there it's not a great shock that Simmons was selected.