John Barclay retires. Must admit, I thought he already had!
Anyway, great player and seemingly a top bloke.
There is a decent interview in The Times which I’ll try and post where he talks a bit about the erosion of rugby’s culture due to professionalism and how dangerous it is
The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
He's right IMHO. I used to love this game and it really isn't the same any more. I'll allow that this is probably due to Scotland having been fairly shafted by it, both by the timing (when we had no money to fund pro teams) and by the fact that it's now impossible to win anything with a strong first XV. Between replacements and injuries, you now need a strong 35 or so, which we will never have.Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am John Barclay retires. Must admit, I thought he already had!
Anyway, great player and seemingly a top bloke.
There is a decent interview in The Times which I’ll try and post where he talks a bit about the erosion of rugby’s culture due to professionalism and how dangerous it is
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Any chance you could post that please? Found the article but forgot that The Times doesn't even do a free weekly article.Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am John Barclay retires. Must admit, I thought he already had!
Anyway, great player and seemingly a top bloke.
There is a decent interview in The Times which I’ll try and post where he talks a bit about the erosion of rugby’s culture due to professionalism and how dangerous it is
And on the 7th day, the Lord said "Let there be Finn Russell".
Actually, not an interview, writen by him
Thirteen years ago I made my international debut for Scotland against New Zealand at Murrayfield. My opposite number that day was Richie McCaw — then and now a legend of the game.
McCaw won 148 caps over the course of his 14-year Test career. He also had the good sense to go out at the top, leading the All Blacks to victory in the 2015 World Cup and then announcing his retirement a few weeks later. “When you know, you know,” he said.
Well now I know too. Having been a professional player for the past 16 years, having played for three different clubs and represented my country 76 times, the time is right to call it a day. At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
As a young teenager I watched Andy Nicol hold the Calcutta Cup aloft after Scotland beat England at Murrayfield in 2000. At school, we would pretend we had done the same and hold an imaginary cup above our heads. In 2018, I got to do it for real after captaining Scotland to a 25-13 win in the same fixture. Not many of us have the good fortune to live out our childhood dreams as exactly as that. As players we live and die in the moment and I seldom looked back in my career. I am sure the highlights and milestones will gain impetus as the years roll on.
Beating England — I was on the losing side against them five times — was an obvious highlight. So, too, was leading Scarlets to the Pro14 title in 2017. It meant a huge amount to me that I, as a non-Welshman, was trusted to captain that side. Maybe it was a case of “right place/right time”, but it was an enormous privilege. It means a lot, too, that my wife and kids were able to see me play and captain Scotland and Scarlets.
Happy memories. But disappointments, too. I would have loved to have played for the Lions, but the call never came. There was also that period when I dropped out of the Scotland picture for three years. And, of course, the injuries, the price you pay, and keep paying, for all the battering of such an immensely physical sport.
Bizarrely, one of the things I will most miss is that feeling after a game, and the days that followed of complete physical misery. The pain and suffering meant you had done something worthwhile to feel that way. But the long-term impact on the body will be felt for years to come and won’t be felt quite as fondly.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain. Failed surgeries left me with broken screws in my shoulder. I have bad arthritis as the legacy of a missed broken wrist and ruptured scaphoid lunate ligament. Ask me to throw a ball and I would struggle. Broken bones, torn hamstrings, enough stitches to make a seamstress jealous. Then there were all the concussions, far too many to list. And there was the serious Achilles injury that cost me the best part of a season when I came back to Scotland from Wales. All worth it. No doubt about it; but painful all the same.
I do wonder about the duty of care to players when they stop. Years at the coal face undoubtedly take their toll, both mentally and physically. But who is there to pick up the pieces when the lights go out for the last time on the field?
Rugby players have always accepted the physical consequences of their involvement in a brutal pursuit. It’s the price you pay, I suppose, and most would do it for free. But what of the other costs? More and more, it seems that the game’s most noble, decent and worthy traditions are being cast aside as the top end of rugby becomes a harsher business in which the bottom line is everything and the welfare of those involved in it counts for little.
We are in danger of losing the values that make our game great: family, respect and honesty. We are in danger of creating a system in which players have become components in a commercial juggernaut — to be discarded without thought once their usefulness has been exhausted. The business side of rugby has advanced at a spectacular pace and the players have been the beneficiaries undoubtedly. Better wages, tv coverage, off-field opportunities through third party sponsorship agreements all puts rugby players in a highly privileged position. But this career is short, and for the vast majority, the next step is the big one.
And I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve had a career that gave me a certain profile and decent financial stability. What of those who fly below the radar, who struggle for selection, who have to get by on shoestring wages? What of those Pacific Islands players who have been exploited so ruthlessly that an organisation has been formed to highlight their plight and promote their welfare. What of a guy like Matt Smith, an outstanding prospect at Glasgow a couple of seasons ago whose frustrations became so severe that he thought of taking his own life before turning his back on the game a few weeks ago?
Will I stay involved in the game that gave me so much? Gave me enough memories that some won’t make in a lifetime. I would love to. But the business side of the game makes me uncomfortable and the increasingly cut-throat approach to contracts is something I would not want to be part of. I feel I have a lot to give back to the game and plenty of experience of what good looks like on the pitch, but also more importantly what it looks like off the pitch.
Culture is everything. Living by standards that are created as a group is not easy, but when it is done well the rewards are incredible. If I had to sum up my time in Wales in one word it would be “culture”. A genuine care for your people, combined with a ruthless pursuit of a common goal made us tighter as a group than any group I was part of.
Men treated like men, and encouraged to enjoy each other’s company. The quality of rugby was a by-product of the environment in which we operated. We thrived on the responsibility and the freedom afforded to us by Wayne Pivac, Stephen Jones and co. Those five years truly reminded me why I love the game and for that I will always hold Llanelli close to my heart.
Players have so much to give, even after their most useful time to an organisation (on the pitch) is over. I started off as a fan, and will continue to be a fan now my playing days are numbered. I want the very best for the next generation of players. I certainly hope the players are looked after as well as possible in their careers to give them the best chance of making this career a long one.
Financially I want them to be looked after well, because this is a career that can end in a flash, or ruptured Achilles, or in the dreaded summoning to a CEO’s office. Nothing will make me happier than seeing a large number of Scots represent the Lions in a year’s time. Because their time will come sooner than they care to believe to dance their own last dance. The days are long, but the years are short.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes. I want Scotland to be as successful as they can be. I understand now that we punch well above our weight on the global game. Can Scotland win the Six Nations? 100 per cent. Will they? I have no idea because the competition is so fierce. The pace of improvement, growth and investment from the other unions is rapid also. But they shouldn’t be allowed to fail because not enough attention was paid to the mistakes of old.
Looking back, I came into professional rugby when the Scottish game was in pretty poor shape. Most amateur clubs have a better set-up now than we did when I started out as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 17-year-old. I’m now convinced we have a raft of world-class talent in players we never had before; players like Hamish Watson, Jamie Ritchie, Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell and either or both of Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown. Rory Sutherland could be something special given the time to mature into the player he has the potential to become. Lions contenders all.
The pro teams are in good health, too. I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led. It is their careers. Blink and it’s over and the worst feeling you will leave with is one of regret. And so do I have any regrets? Not particularly.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch. And the ending was oh so dreary. But nobody deserves a fairytale send off. Why? Because if you are lucky enough to play this game as a career for as long as I managed, then the whole thing is a part of the fairytale, start to finish.
After all those years on the pitch I cannot wait to be watching those playing out their own fairytale, but this time, from the stands.
Thirteen years ago I made my international debut for Scotland against New Zealand at Murrayfield. My opposite number that day was Richie McCaw — then and now a legend of the game.
McCaw won 148 caps over the course of his 14-year Test career. He also had the good sense to go out at the top, leading the All Blacks to victory in the 2015 World Cup and then announcing his retirement a few weeks later. “When you know, you know,” he said.
Well now I know too. Having been a professional player for the past 16 years, having played for three different clubs and represented my country 76 times, the time is right to call it a day. At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
As a young teenager I watched Andy Nicol hold the Calcutta Cup aloft after Scotland beat England at Murrayfield in 2000. At school, we would pretend we had done the same and hold an imaginary cup above our heads. In 2018, I got to do it for real after captaining Scotland to a 25-13 win in the same fixture. Not many of us have the good fortune to live out our childhood dreams as exactly as that. As players we live and die in the moment and I seldom looked back in my career. I am sure the highlights and milestones will gain impetus as the years roll on.
Beating England — I was on the losing side against them five times — was an obvious highlight. So, too, was leading Scarlets to the Pro14 title in 2017. It meant a huge amount to me that I, as a non-Welshman, was trusted to captain that side. Maybe it was a case of “right place/right time”, but it was an enormous privilege. It means a lot, too, that my wife and kids were able to see me play and captain Scotland and Scarlets.
Happy memories. But disappointments, too. I would have loved to have played for the Lions, but the call never came. There was also that period when I dropped out of the Scotland picture for three years. And, of course, the injuries, the price you pay, and keep paying, for all the battering of such an immensely physical sport.
Bizarrely, one of the things I will most miss is that feeling after a game, and the days that followed of complete physical misery. The pain and suffering meant you had done something worthwhile to feel that way. But the long-term impact on the body will be felt for years to come and won’t be felt quite as fondly.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain. Failed surgeries left me with broken screws in my shoulder. I have bad arthritis as the legacy of a missed broken wrist and ruptured scaphoid lunate ligament. Ask me to throw a ball and I would struggle. Broken bones, torn hamstrings, enough stitches to make a seamstress jealous. Then there were all the concussions, far too many to list. And there was the serious Achilles injury that cost me the best part of a season when I came back to Scotland from Wales. All worth it. No doubt about it; but painful all the same.
I do wonder about the duty of care to players when they stop. Years at the coal face undoubtedly take their toll, both mentally and physically. But who is there to pick up the pieces when the lights go out for the last time on the field?
Rugby players have always accepted the physical consequences of their involvement in a brutal pursuit. It’s the price you pay, I suppose, and most would do it for free. But what of the other costs? More and more, it seems that the game’s most noble, decent and worthy traditions are being cast aside as the top end of rugby becomes a harsher business in which the bottom line is everything and the welfare of those involved in it counts for little.
We are in danger of losing the values that make our game great: family, respect and honesty. We are in danger of creating a system in which players have become components in a commercial juggernaut — to be discarded without thought once their usefulness has been exhausted. The business side of rugby has advanced at a spectacular pace and the players have been the beneficiaries undoubtedly. Better wages, tv coverage, off-field opportunities through third party sponsorship agreements all puts rugby players in a highly privileged position. But this career is short, and for the vast majority, the next step is the big one.
And I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve had a career that gave me a certain profile and decent financial stability. What of those who fly below the radar, who struggle for selection, who have to get by on shoestring wages? What of those Pacific Islands players who have been exploited so ruthlessly that an organisation has been formed to highlight their plight and promote their welfare. What of a guy like Matt Smith, an outstanding prospect at Glasgow a couple of seasons ago whose frustrations became so severe that he thought of taking his own life before turning his back on the game a few weeks ago?
Will I stay involved in the game that gave me so much? Gave me enough memories that some won’t make in a lifetime. I would love to. But the business side of the game makes me uncomfortable and the increasingly cut-throat approach to contracts is something I would not want to be part of. I feel I have a lot to give back to the game and plenty of experience of what good looks like on the pitch, but also more importantly what it looks like off the pitch.
Culture is everything. Living by standards that are created as a group is not easy, but when it is done well the rewards are incredible. If I had to sum up my time in Wales in one word it would be “culture”. A genuine care for your people, combined with a ruthless pursuit of a common goal made us tighter as a group than any group I was part of.
Men treated like men, and encouraged to enjoy each other’s company. The quality of rugby was a by-product of the environment in which we operated. We thrived on the responsibility and the freedom afforded to us by Wayne Pivac, Stephen Jones and co. Those five years truly reminded me why I love the game and for that I will always hold Llanelli close to my heart.
Players have so much to give, even after their most useful time to an organisation (on the pitch) is over. I started off as a fan, and will continue to be a fan now my playing days are numbered. I want the very best for the next generation of players. I certainly hope the players are looked after as well as possible in their careers to give them the best chance of making this career a long one.
Financially I want them to be looked after well, because this is a career that can end in a flash, or ruptured Achilles, or in the dreaded summoning to a CEO’s office. Nothing will make me happier than seeing a large number of Scots represent the Lions in a year’s time. Because their time will come sooner than they care to believe to dance their own last dance. The days are long, but the years are short.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes. I want Scotland to be as successful as they can be. I understand now that we punch well above our weight on the global game. Can Scotland win the Six Nations? 100 per cent. Will they? I have no idea because the competition is so fierce. The pace of improvement, growth and investment from the other unions is rapid also. But they shouldn’t be allowed to fail because not enough attention was paid to the mistakes of old.
Looking back, I came into professional rugby when the Scottish game was in pretty poor shape. Most amateur clubs have a better set-up now than we did when I started out as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 17-year-old. I’m now convinced we have a raft of world-class talent in players we never had before; players like Hamish Watson, Jamie Ritchie, Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell and either or both of Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown. Rory Sutherland could be something special given the time to mature into the player he has the potential to become. Lions contenders all.
The pro teams are in good health, too. I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led. It is their careers. Blink and it’s over and the worst feeling you will leave with is one of regret. And so do I have any regrets? Not particularly.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch. And the ending was oh so dreary. But nobody deserves a fairytale send off. Why? Because if you are lucky enough to play this game as a career for as long as I managed, then the whole thing is a part of the fairytale, start to finish.
After all those years on the pitch I cannot wait to be watching those playing out their own fairytale, but this time, from the stands.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
The 'home' games have been switched round between this week and next, and the article references attempts to get a small crowd in for next weekend (Friday 28th). Presumably the switch is so they can justify just offering it to Edinburgh ST holders.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Yup. I've banged on enough about it but it's not the same game and I don't like it.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:04 amHe's right IMHO. I used to love this game and it really isn't the same any more. I'll allow that this is probably due to Scotland having been fairly shafted by it, both by the timing (when we had no money to fund pro teams) and by the fact that it's now impossible to win anything with a strong first XV. Between replacements and injuries, you now need a strong 35 or so, which we will never have.Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am John Barclay retires. Must admit, I thought he already had!
Anyway, great player and seemingly a top bloke.
There is a decent interview in The Times which I’ll try and post where he talks a bit about the erosion of rugby’s culture due to professionalism and how dangerous it is
The big fear in Scotland is the club game dying on it's arse, that feels very real.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
Roughly how many ST holders are there?
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
I think there's about 2000, but the crowd wont be that big. I'd imagine a random ballot amongst them or something similar. I think the most sensible thing would be to do it by postcode so that you have a s few people mixing on public transport as possible. But that's probably because I live a 20 minute walk from Murrayfield...
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Cheers. You'd think they could socially distance 2k in Murrayfield but I guess financially and logistically it might not be worth it.Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:51 amI think there's about 2000, but the crowd wont be that big. I'd imagine a random ballot amongst them or something similar. I think the most sensible thing would be to do it by postcode so that you have a s few people mixing on public transport as possible. But that's probably because I live a 20 minute walk from Murrayfield...
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
Doubt very much they'll get permission for more than a few hundred. Maybe 500 if we're lucky.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:12 pmCheers. You'd think they could socially distance 2k in Murrayfield but I guess financially and logistically it might not be worth it.Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:51 amI think there's about 2000, but the crowd wont be that big. I'd imagine a random ballot amongst them or something similar. I think the most sensible thing would be to do it by postcode so that you have a s few people mixing on public transport as possible. But that's probably because I live a 20 minute walk from Murrayfield...
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Yup, good point.Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:15 pmDoubt very much they'll get permission for more than a few hundred. Maybe 500 if we're lucky.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:12 pmCheers. You'd think they could socially distance 2k in Murrayfield but I guess financially and logistically it might not be worth it.Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:51 am
I think there's about 2000, but the crowd wont be that big. I'd imagine a random ballot amongst them or something similar. I think the most sensible thing would be to do it by postcode so that you have a s few people mixing on public transport as possible. But that's probably because I live a 20 minute walk from Murrayfield...
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
-
Chrysoprase
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:59 am
That's a good piece, thanks for posting it. He's saying a lot of the same things about player welfare that Dylan Hartley is saying in the thread about injuries. I've just finished Sam Warburton's book and he's beating the same drum. I'm not convinced that anything serious will be done about it as long as the profit line remains paramount. Warburton has suggested that it might take the death of a pro player, in the middle of a match, live on TV to see anything substantially change.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 amSpoilerShowActually, not an interview, writen by him
Thirteen years ago I made my international debut for Scotland against New Zealand at Murrayfield. My opposite number that day was Richie McCaw — then and now a legend of the game.
McCaw won 148 caps over the course of his 14-year Test career. He also had the good sense to go out at the top, leading the All Blacks to victory in the 2015 World Cup and then announcing his retirement a few weeks later. “When you know, you know,” he said.
Well now I know too. Having been a professional player for the past 16 years, having played for three different clubs and represented my country 76 times, the time is right to call it a day. At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
As a young teenager I watched Andy Nicol hold the Calcutta Cup aloft after Scotland beat England at Murrayfield in 2000. At school, we would pretend we had done the same and hold an imaginary cup above our heads. In 2018, I got to do it for real after captaining Scotland to a 25-13 win in the same fixture. Not many of us have the good fortune to live out our childhood dreams as exactly as that. As players we live and die in the moment and I seldom looked back in my career. I am sure the highlights and milestones will gain impetus as the years roll on.
Beating England — I was on the losing side against them five times — was an obvious highlight. So, too, was leading Scarlets to the Pro14 title in 2017. It meant a huge amount to me that I, as a non-Welshman, was trusted to captain that side. Maybe it was a case of “right place/right time”, but it was an enormous privilege. It means a lot, too, that my wife and kids were able to see me play and captain Scotland and Scarlets.
Happy memories. But disappointments, too. I would have loved to have played for the Lions, but the call never came. There was also that period when I dropped out of the Scotland picture for three years. And, of course, the injuries, the price you pay, and keep paying, for all the battering of such an immensely physical sport.
Bizarrely, one of the things I will most miss is that feeling after a game, and the days that followed of complete physical misery. The pain and suffering meant you had done something worthwhile to feel that way. But the long-term impact on the body will be felt for years to come and won’t be felt quite as fondly.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain. Failed surgeries left me with broken screws in my shoulder. I have bad arthritis as the legacy of a missed broken wrist and ruptured scaphoid lunate ligament. Ask me to throw a ball and I would struggle. Broken bones, torn hamstrings, enough stitches to make a seamstress jealous. Then there were all the concussions, far too many to list. And there was the serious Achilles injury that cost me the best part of a season when I came back to Scotland from Wales. All worth it. No doubt about it; but painful all the same.
I do wonder about the duty of care to players when they stop. Years at the coal face undoubtedly take their toll, both mentally and physically. But who is there to pick up the pieces when the lights go out for the last time on the field?
Rugby players have always accepted the physical consequences of their involvement in a brutal pursuit. It’s the price you pay, I suppose, and most would do it for free. But what of the other costs? More and more, it seems that the game’s most noble, decent and worthy traditions are being cast aside as the top end of rugby becomes a harsher business in which the bottom line is everything and the welfare of those involved in it counts for little.
We are in danger of losing the values that make our game great: family, respect and honesty. We are in danger of creating a system in which players have become components in a commercial juggernaut — to be discarded without thought once their usefulness has been exhausted. The business side of rugby has advanced at a spectacular pace and the players have been the beneficiaries undoubtedly. Better wages, tv coverage, off-field opportunities through third party sponsorship agreements all puts rugby players in a highly privileged position. But this career is short, and for the vast majority, the next step is the big one.
And I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve had a career that gave me a certain profile and decent financial stability. What of those who fly below the radar, who struggle for selection, who have to get by on shoestring wages? What of those Pacific Islands players who have been exploited so ruthlessly that an organisation has been formed to highlight their plight and promote their welfare. What of a guy like Matt Smith, an outstanding prospect at Glasgow a couple of seasons ago whose frustrations became so severe that he thought of taking his own life before turning his back on the game a few weeks ago?
Will I stay involved in the game that gave me so much? Gave me enough memories that some won’t make in a lifetime. I would love to. But the business side of the game makes me uncomfortable and the increasingly cut-throat approach to contracts is something I would not want to be part of. I feel I have a lot to give back to the game and plenty of experience of what good looks like on the pitch, but also more importantly what it looks like off the pitch.
Culture is everything. Living by standards that are created as a group is not easy, but when it is done well the rewards are incredible. If I had to sum up my time in Wales in one word it would be “culture”. A genuine care for your people, combined with a ruthless pursuit of a common goal made us tighter as a group than any group I was part of.
Men treated like men, and encouraged to enjoy each other’s company. The quality of rugby was a by-product of the environment in which we operated. We thrived on the responsibility and the freedom afforded to us by Wayne Pivac, Stephen Jones and co. Those five years truly reminded me why I love the game and for that I will always hold Llanelli close to my heart.
Players have so much to give, even after their most useful time to an organisation (on the pitch) is over. I started off as a fan, and will continue to be a fan now my playing days are numbered. I want the very best for the next generation of players. I certainly hope the players are looked after as well as possible in their careers to give them the best chance of making this career a long one.
Financially I want them to be looked after well, because this is a career that can end in a flash, or ruptured Achilles, or in the dreaded summoning to a CEO’s office. Nothing will make me happier than seeing a large number of Scots represent the Lions in a year’s time. Because their time will come sooner than they care to believe to dance their own last dance. The days are long, but the years are short.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes. I want Scotland to be as successful as they can be. I understand now that we punch well above our weight on the global game. Can Scotland win the Six Nations? 100 per cent. Will they? I have no idea because the competition is so fierce. The pace of improvement, growth and investment from the other unions is rapid also. But they shouldn’t be allowed to fail because not enough attention was paid to the mistakes of old.
Looking back, I came into professional rugby when the Scottish game was in pretty poor shape. Most amateur clubs have a better set-up now than we did when I started out as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 17-year-old. I’m now convinced we have a raft of world-class talent in players we never had before; players like Hamish Watson, Jamie Ritchie, Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell and either or both of Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown. Rory Sutherland could be something special given the time to mature into the player he has the potential to become. Lions contenders all.
The pro teams are in good health, too. I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led. It is their careers. Blink and it’s over and the worst feeling you will leave with is one of regret. And so do I have any regrets? Not particularly.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch. And the ending was oh so dreary. But nobody deserves a fairytale send off. Why? Because if you are lucky enough to play this game as a career for as long as I managed, then the whole thing is a part of the fairytale, start to finish.
After all those years on the pitch I cannot wait to be watching those playing out their own fairytale, but this time, from the stands.
Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:19 pmThat's a good piece, thanks for posting it. He's saying a lot of the same things about player welfare that Dylan Hartley is saying in the thread about injuries. I've just finished Sam Warburton's book and he's beating the same drum. I'm not convinced that anything serious will be done about it as long as the profit line remains paramount. Warburton has suggested that it might take the death of a pro player, in the middle of a match, live on TV to see anything substantially change.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 amSpoilerShowActually, not an interview, writen by him
Thirteen years ago I made my international debut for Scotland against New Zealand at Murrayfield. My opposite number that day was Richie McCaw — then and now a legend of the game.
McCaw won 148 caps over the course of his 14-year Test career. He also had the good sense to go out at the top, leading the All Blacks to victory in the 2015 World Cup and then announcing his retirement a few weeks later. “When you know, you know,” he said.
Well now I know too. Having been a professional player for the past 16 years, having played for three different clubs and represented my country 76 times, the time is right to call it a day. At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
As a young teenager I watched Andy Nicol hold the Calcutta Cup aloft after Scotland beat England at Murrayfield in 2000. At school, we would pretend we had done the same and hold an imaginary cup above our heads. In 2018, I got to do it for real after captaining Scotland to a 25-13 win in the same fixture. Not many of us have the good fortune to live out our childhood dreams as exactly as that. As players we live and die in the moment and I seldom looked back in my career. I am sure the highlights and milestones will gain impetus as the years roll on.
Beating England — I was on the losing side against them five times — was an obvious highlight. So, too, was leading Scarlets to the Pro14 title in 2017. It meant a huge amount to me that I, as a non-Welshman, was trusted to captain that side. Maybe it was a case of “right place/right time”, but it was an enormous privilege. It means a lot, too, that my wife and kids were able to see me play and captain Scotland and Scarlets.
Happy memories. But disappointments, too. I would have loved to have played for the Lions, but the call never came. There was also that period when I dropped out of the Scotland picture for three years. And, of course, the injuries, the price you pay, and keep paying, for all the battering of such an immensely physical sport.
Bizarrely, one of the things I will most miss is that feeling after a game, and the days that followed of complete physical misery. The pain and suffering meant you had done something worthwhile to feel that way. But the long-term impact on the body will be felt for years to come and won’t be felt quite as fondly.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain. Failed surgeries left me with broken screws in my shoulder. I have bad arthritis as the legacy of a missed broken wrist and ruptured scaphoid lunate ligament. Ask me to throw a ball and I would struggle. Broken bones, torn hamstrings, enough stitches to make a seamstress jealous. Then there were all the concussions, far too many to list. And there was the serious Achilles injury that cost me the best part of a season when I came back to Scotland from Wales. All worth it. No doubt about it; but painful all the same.
I do wonder about the duty of care to players when they stop. Years at the coal face undoubtedly take their toll, both mentally and physically. But who is there to pick up the pieces when the lights go out for the last time on the field?
Rugby players have always accepted the physical consequences of their involvement in a brutal pursuit. It’s the price you pay, I suppose, and most would do it for free. But what of the other costs? More and more, it seems that the game’s most noble, decent and worthy traditions are being cast aside as the top end of rugby becomes a harsher business in which the bottom line is everything and the welfare of those involved in it counts for little.
We are in danger of losing the values that make our game great: family, respect and honesty. We are in danger of creating a system in which players have become components in a commercial juggernaut — to be discarded without thought once their usefulness has been exhausted. The business side of rugby has advanced at a spectacular pace and the players have been the beneficiaries undoubtedly. Better wages, tv coverage, off-field opportunities through third party sponsorship agreements all puts rugby players in a highly privileged position. But this career is short, and for the vast majority, the next step is the big one.
And I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve had a career that gave me a certain profile and decent financial stability. What of those who fly below the radar, who struggle for selection, who have to get by on shoestring wages? What of those Pacific Islands players who have been exploited so ruthlessly that an organisation has been formed to highlight their plight and promote their welfare. What of a guy like Matt Smith, an outstanding prospect at Glasgow a couple of seasons ago whose frustrations became so severe that he thought of taking his own life before turning his back on the game a few weeks ago?
Will I stay involved in the game that gave me so much? Gave me enough memories that some won’t make in a lifetime. I would love to. But the business side of the game makes me uncomfortable and the increasingly cut-throat approach to contracts is something I would not want to be part of. I feel I have a lot to give back to the game and plenty of experience of what good looks like on the pitch, but also more importantly what it looks like off the pitch.
Culture is everything. Living by standards that are created as a group is not easy, but when it is done well the rewards are incredible. If I had to sum up my time in Wales in one word it would be “culture”. A genuine care for your people, combined with a ruthless pursuit of a common goal made us tighter as a group than any group I was part of.
Men treated like men, and encouraged to enjoy each other’s company. The quality of rugby was a by-product of the environment in which we operated. We thrived on the responsibility and the freedom afforded to us by Wayne Pivac, Stephen Jones and co. Those five years truly reminded me why I love the game and for that I will always hold Llanelli close to my heart.
Players have so much to give, even after their most useful time to an organisation (on the pitch) is over. I started off as a fan, and will continue to be a fan now my playing days are numbered. I want the very best for the next generation of players. I certainly hope the players are looked after as well as possible in their careers to give them the best chance of making this career a long one.
Financially I want them to be looked after well, because this is a career that can end in a flash, or ruptured Achilles, or in the dreaded summoning to a CEO’s office. Nothing will make me happier than seeing a large number of Scots represent the Lions in a year’s time. Because their time will come sooner than they care to believe to dance their own last dance. The days are long, but the years are short.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes. I want Scotland to be as successful as they can be. I understand now that we punch well above our weight on the global game. Can Scotland win the Six Nations? 100 per cent. Will they? I have no idea because the competition is so fierce. The pace of improvement, growth and investment from the other unions is rapid also. But they shouldn’t be allowed to fail because not enough attention was paid to the mistakes of old.
Looking back, I came into professional rugby when the Scottish game was in pretty poor shape. Most amateur clubs have a better set-up now than we did when I started out as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 17-year-old. I’m now convinced we have a raft of world-class talent in players we never had before; players like Hamish Watson, Jamie Ritchie, Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell and either or both of Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown. Rory Sutherland could be something special given the time to mature into the player he has the potential to become. Lions contenders all.
The pro teams are in good health, too. I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led. It is their careers. Blink and it’s over and the worst feeling you will leave with is one of regret. And so do I have any regrets? Not particularly.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch. And the ending was oh so dreary. But nobody deserves a fairytale send off. Why? Because if you are lucky enough to play this game as a career for as long as I managed, then the whole thing is a part of the fairytale, start to finish.
After all those years on the pitch I cannot wait to be watching those playing out their own fairytale, but this time, from the stands.
Yeah, good piece that.
Thanks for posting.
And on the 7th day, the Lord said "Let there be Finn Russell".
We have at least seen some positive changes in the last few years. There's a lot more attention paid to concussion now, for instance. And hopefully this year's law interpretation changes will stick, because massive players flying in like missiles off their feet at the breakdown must be a significant factor in the physical load.Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:19 pmThat's a good piece, thanks for posting it. He's saying a lot of the same things about player welfare that Dylan Hartley is saying in the thread about injuries. I've just finished Sam Warburton's book and he's beating the same drum. I'm not convinced that anything serious will be done about it as long as the profit line remains paramount. Warburton has suggested that it might take the death of a pro player, in the middle of a match, live on TV to see anything substantially change.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 amSpoilerShowActually, not an interview, writen by him
Thirteen years ago I made my international debut for Scotland against New Zealand at Murrayfield. My opposite number that day was Richie McCaw — then and now a legend of the game.
McCaw won 148 caps over the course of his 14-year Test career. He also had the good sense to go out at the top, leading the All Blacks to victory in the 2015 World Cup and then announcing his retirement a few weeks later. “When you know, you know,” he said.
Well now I know too. Having been a professional player for the past 16 years, having played for three different clubs and represented my country 76 times, the time is right to call it a day. At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
As a young teenager I watched Andy Nicol hold the Calcutta Cup aloft after Scotland beat England at Murrayfield in 2000. At school, we would pretend we had done the same and hold an imaginary cup above our heads. In 2018, I got to do it for real after captaining Scotland to a 25-13 win in the same fixture. Not many of us have the good fortune to live out our childhood dreams as exactly as that. As players we live and die in the moment and I seldom looked back in my career. I am sure the highlights and milestones will gain impetus as the years roll on.
Beating England — I was on the losing side against them five times — was an obvious highlight. So, too, was leading Scarlets to the Pro14 title in 2017. It meant a huge amount to me that I, as a non-Welshman, was trusted to captain that side. Maybe it was a case of “right place/right time”, but it was an enormous privilege. It means a lot, too, that my wife and kids were able to see me play and captain Scotland and Scarlets.
Happy memories. But disappointments, too. I would have loved to have played for the Lions, but the call never came. There was also that period when I dropped out of the Scotland picture for three years. And, of course, the injuries, the price you pay, and keep paying, for all the battering of such an immensely physical sport.
Bizarrely, one of the things I will most miss is that feeling after a game, and the days that followed of complete physical misery. The pain and suffering meant you had done something worthwhile to feel that way. But the long-term impact on the body will be felt for years to come and won’t be felt quite as fondly.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain. Failed surgeries left me with broken screws in my shoulder. I have bad arthritis as the legacy of a missed broken wrist and ruptured scaphoid lunate ligament. Ask me to throw a ball and I would struggle. Broken bones, torn hamstrings, enough stitches to make a seamstress jealous. Then there were all the concussions, far too many to list. And there was the serious Achilles injury that cost me the best part of a season when I came back to Scotland from Wales. All worth it. No doubt about it; but painful all the same.
I do wonder about the duty of care to players when they stop. Years at the coal face undoubtedly take their toll, both mentally and physically. But who is there to pick up the pieces when the lights go out for the last time on the field?
Rugby players have always accepted the physical consequences of their involvement in a brutal pursuit. It’s the price you pay, I suppose, and most would do it for free. But what of the other costs? More and more, it seems that the game’s most noble, decent and worthy traditions are being cast aside as the top end of rugby becomes a harsher business in which the bottom line is everything and the welfare of those involved in it counts for little.
We are in danger of losing the values that make our game great: family, respect and honesty. We are in danger of creating a system in which players have become components in a commercial juggernaut — to be discarded without thought once their usefulness has been exhausted. The business side of rugby has advanced at a spectacular pace and the players have been the beneficiaries undoubtedly. Better wages, tv coverage, off-field opportunities through third party sponsorship agreements all puts rugby players in a highly privileged position. But this career is short, and for the vast majority, the next step is the big one.
And I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve had a career that gave me a certain profile and decent financial stability. What of those who fly below the radar, who struggle for selection, who have to get by on shoestring wages? What of those Pacific Islands players who have been exploited so ruthlessly that an organisation has been formed to highlight their plight and promote their welfare. What of a guy like Matt Smith, an outstanding prospect at Glasgow a couple of seasons ago whose frustrations became so severe that he thought of taking his own life before turning his back on the game a few weeks ago?
Will I stay involved in the game that gave me so much? Gave me enough memories that some won’t make in a lifetime. I would love to. But the business side of the game makes me uncomfortable and the increasingly cut-throat approach to contracts is something I would not want to be part of. I feel I have a lot to give back to the game and plenty of experience of what good looks like on the pitch, but also more importantly what it looks like off the pitch.
Culture is everything. Living by standards that are created as a group is not easy, but when it is done well the rewards are incredible. If I had to sum up my time in Wales in one word it would be “culture”. A genuine care for your people, combined with a ruthless pursuit of a common goal made us tighter as a group than any group I was part of.
Men treated like men, and encouraged to enjoy each other’s company. The quality of rugby was a by-product of the environment in which we operated. We thrived on the responsibility and the freedom afforded to us by Wayne Pivac, Stephen Jones and co. Those five years truly reminded me why I love the game and for that I will always hold Llanelli close to my heart.
Players have so much to give, even after their most useful time to an organisation (on the pitch) is over. I started off as a fan, and will continue to be a fan now my playing days are numbered. I want the very best for the next generation of players. I certainly hope the players are looked after as well as possible in their careers to give them the best chance of making this career a long one.
Financially I want them to be looked after well, because this is a career that can end in a flash, or ruptured Achilles, or in the dreaded summoning to a CEO’s office. Nothing will make me happier than seeing a large number of Scots represent the Lions in a year’s time. Because their time will come sooner than they care to believe to dance their own last dance. The days are long, but the years are short.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes. I want Scotland to be as successful as they can be. I understand now that we punch well above our weight on the global game. Can Scotland win the Six Nations? 100 per cent. Will they? I have no idea because the competition is so fierce. The pace of improvement, growth and investment from the other unions is rapid also. But they shouldn’t be allowed to fail because not enough attention was paid to the mistakes of old.
Looking back, I came into professional rugby when the Scottish game was in pretty poor shape. Most amateur clubs have a better set-up now than we did when I started out as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 17-year-old. I’m now convinced we have a raft of world-class talent in players we never had before; players like Hamish Watson, Jamie Ritchie, Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell and either or both of Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown. Rory Sutherland could be something special given the time to mature into the player he has the potential to become. Lions contenders all.
The pro teams are in good health, too. I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led. It is their careers. Blink and it’s over and the worst feeling you will leave with is one of regret. And so do I have any regrets? Not particularly.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch. And the ending was oh so dreary. But nobody deserves a fairytale send off. Why? Because if you are lucky enough to play this game as a career for as long as I managed, then the whole thing is a part of the fairytale, start to finish.
After all those years on the pitch I cannot wait to be watching those playing out their own fairytale, but this time, from the stands.
It's difficult to see how some of the injuries can be avoided though. It's big guys moving quite rapidly and that means there will be some big collisions.
What needs to be looked at is how different it is now compared to previous generations. We all assume that it's going to be worse because players are bigger, but they're also fitter and better conditioned. We've all seen plenty of guys in their fifties who are crocked from playing - we need to check that it is worse now, not just assume that.robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:58 amWe have at least seen some positive changes in the last few years. There's a lot more attention paid to concussion now, for instance. And hopefully this year's law interpretation changes will stick, because massive players flying in like missiles off their feet at the breakdown must be a significant factor in the physical load.Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:19 pmThat's a good piece, thanks for posting it. He's saying a lot of the same things about player welfare that Dylan Hartley is saying in the thread about injuries. I've just finished Sam Warburton's book and he's beating the same drum. I'm not convinced that anything serious will be done about it as long as the profit line remains paramount. Warburton has suggested that it might take the death of a pro player, in the middle of a match, live on TV to see anything substantially change.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 amSpoilerShowActually, not an interview, writen by him
Thirteen years ago I made my international debut for Scotland against New Zealand at Murrayfield. My opposite number that day was Richie McCaw — then and now a legend of the game.
McCaw won 148 caps over the course of his 14-year Test career. He also had the good sense to go out at the top, leading the All Blacks to victory in the 2015 World Cup and then announcing his retirement a few weeks later. “When you know, you know,” he said.
Well now I know too. Having been a professional player for the past 16 years, having played for three different clubs and represented my country 76 times, the time is right to call it a day. At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
As a young teenager I watched Andy Nicol hold the Calcutta Cup aloft after Scotland beat England at Murrayfield in 2000. At school, we would pretend we had done the same and hold an imaginary cup above our heads. In 2018, I got to do it for real after captaining Scotland to a 25-13 win in the same fixture. Not many of us have the good fortune to live out our childhood dreams as exactly as that. As players we live and die in the moment and I seldom looked back in my career. I am sure the highlights and milestones will gain impetus as the years roll on.
Beating England — I was on the losing side against them five times — was an obvious highlight. So, too, was leading Scarlets to the Pro14 title in 2017. It meant a huge amount to me that I, as a non-Welshman, was trusted to captain that side. Maybe it was a case of “right place/right time”, but it was an enormous privilege. It means a lot, too, that my wife and kids were able to see me play and captain Scotland and Scarlets.
Happy memories. But disappointments, too. I would have loved to have played for the Lions, but the call never came. There was also that period when I dropped out of the Scotland picture for three years. And, of course, the injuries, the price you pay, and keep paying, for all the battering of such an immensely physical sport.
Bizarrely, one of the things I will most miss is that feeling after a game, and the days that followed of complete physical misery. The pain and suffering meant you had done something worthwhile to feel that way. But the long-term impact on the body will be felt for years to come and won’t be felt quite as fondly.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain. Failed surgeries left me with broken screws in my shoulder. I have bad arthritis as the legacy of a missed broken wrist and ruptured scaphoid lunate ligament. Ask me to throw a ball and I would struggle. Broken bones, torn hamstrings, enough stitches to make a seamstress jealous. Then there were all the concussions, far too many to list. And there was the serious Achilles injury that cost me the best part of a season when I came back to Scotland from Wales. All worth it. No doubt about it; but painful all the same.
I do wonder about the duty of care to players when they stop. Years at the coal face undoubtedly take their toll, both mentally and physically. But who is there to pick up the pieces when the lights go out for the last time on the field?
Rugby players have always accepted the physical consequences of their involvement in a brutal pursuit. It’s the price you pay, I suppose, and most would do it for free. But what of the other costs? More and more, it seems that the game’s most noble, decent and worthy traditions are being cast aside as the top end of rugby becomes a harsher business in which the bottom line is everything and the welfare of those involved in it counts for little.
We are in danger of losing the values that make our game great: family, respect and honesty. We are in danger of creating a system in which players have become components in a commercial juggernaut — to be discarded without thought once their usefulness has been exhausted. The business side of rugby has advanced at a spectacular pace and the players have been the beneficiaries undoubtedly. Better wages, tv coverage, off-field opportunities through third party sponsorship agreements all puts rugby players in a highly privileged position. But this career is short, and for the vast majority, the next step is the big one.
And I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve had a career that gave me a certain profile and decent financial stability. What of those who fly below the radar, who struggle for selection, who have to get by on shoestring wages? What of those Pacific Islands players who have been exploited so ruthlessly that an organisation has been formed to highlight their plight and promote their welfare. What of a guy like Matt Smith, an outstanding prospect at Glasgow a couple of seasons ago whose frustrations became so severe that he thought of taking his own life before turning his back on the game a few weeks ago?
Will I stay involved in the game that gave me so much? Gave me enough memories that some won’t make in a lifetime. I would love to. But the business side of the game makes me uncomfortable and the increasingly cut-throat approach to contracts is something I would not want to be part of. I feel I have a lot to give back to the game and plenty of experience of what good looks like on the pitch, but also more importantly what it looks like off the pitch.
Culture is everything. Living by standards that are created as a group is not easy, but when it is done well the rewards are incredible. If I had to sum up my time in Wales in one word it would be “culture”. A genuine care for your people, combined with a ruthless pursuit of a common goal made us tighter as a group than any group I was part of.
Men treated like men, and encouraged to enjoy each other’s company. The quality of rugby was a by-product of the environment in which we operated. We thrived on the responsibility and the freedom afforded to us by Wayne Pivac, Stephen Jones and co. Those five years truly reminded me why I love the game and for that I will always hold Llanelli close to my heart.
Players have so much to give, even after their most useful time to an organisation (on the pitch) is over. I started off as a fan, and will continue to be a fan now my playing days are numbered. I want the very best for the next generation of players. I certainly hope the players are looked after as well as possible in their careers to give them the best chance of making this career a long one.
Financially I want them to be looked after well, because this is a career that can end in a flash, or ruptured Achilles, or in the dreaded summoning to a CEO’s office. Nothing will make me happier than seeing a large number of Scots represent the Lions in a year’s time. Because their time will come sooner than they care to believe to dance their own last dance. The days are long, but the years are short.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes. I want Scotland to be as successful as they can be. I understand now that we punch well above our weight on the global game. Can Scotland win the Six Nations? 100 per cent. Will they? I have no idea because the competition is so fierce. The pace of improvement, growth and investment from the other unions is rapid also. But they shouldn’t be allowed to fail because not enough attention was paid to the mistakes of old.
Looking back, I came into professional rugby when the Scottish game was in pretty poor shape. Most amateur clubs have a better set-up now than we did when I started out as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 17-year-old. I’m now convinced we have a raft of world-class talent in players we never had before; players like Hamish Watson, Jamie Ritchie, Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell and either or both of Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown. Rory Sutherland could be something special given the time to mature into the player he has the potential to become. Lions contenders all.
The pro teams are in good health, too. I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led. It is their careers. Blink and it’s over and the worst feeling you will leave with is one of regret. And so do I have any regrets? Not particularly.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch. And the ending was oh so dreary. But nobody deserves a fairytale send off. Why? Because if you are lucky enough to play this game as a career for as long as I managed, then the whole thing is a part of the fairytale, start to finish.
After all those years on the pitch I cannot wait to be watching those playing out their own fairytale, but this time, from the stands.
It's difficult to see how some of the injuries can be avoided though. It's big guys moving quite rapidly and that means there will be some big collisions.
From the setup in America, support after retirement is something that can be heavily pushed by players associations. It's substantially the NFLPA that brought the concussion issues to centre stage and delivered financing from the league for compensation and ongoing medical care.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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KingBlairhorn
- Posts: 1856
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
An interesting piece - I have to say for me it's a bit scatter gun, bouncing around through different topics often without a clear link between sentences or paragraphs. It reads to me more as a stream of consciousness than an article with a specific topic or thought in mind - perhaps understandable given its a retrospective of a long and successful career in only a few hundred words. I would say that it is very nicely written and I enjoyed reading it so with a bit of careful editing I think John could do well as a columnist.
Regardless, there are some sentences that give real insight into topics that have been discussed here and elsewhere that I thought were interesting.
I do think his introspection is very evident through the article though, and I agree with him that regardless of whether his face fitted with Edinburgh, he would have had much to give back to Scottish rugby generally. I do hope to see him involved in future in some capacity as the younger generation could do a lot worse than listen to him and learn from his experience.
Regardless, there are some sentences that give real insight into topics that have been discussed here and elsewhere that I thought were interesting.
In terms of his Edinburgh career fizzling out with Cockerill not offering him a new deal and his complaints in the media thereafter (particularly about being left out of the leadership group), there are a number of his points which offer some kind of alternative view. That he was mentally finished, that he has tried to cover up injuries and play through the pain, that he believes Edinburgh's style is incompatible with winning at the highest level and that he thinks players should push back more against the leadership. Given all these things together I would have to say that I am maybe less surprised now that his contract wasn't extended. I don't think it's a stretch to say that it might have been apparent that he was mentally done, and given the analytic depth a pro rugby team goes into these days, I would be very surprised if they hadn't also seen a drop-off in his KPIs as he played through the pain. This combined with his lack of buy-in into the playing style and his stated aim to push back doesn't really show a picture of a guy you are desperate to have in the team.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 am
At a push, my body could maybe have kept going a little longer, but mentally I’ve had enough. It’s over.
You try to cover them up but the last few years of my rugby career were played in pain.
I firmly believe more can be gleaned from players departing the game, particularly those that played for as long as I did. But rarely are the questions asked. What worked? What didn’t? What would I do differently so that the next generation don’t make the same mistakes.
I think Edinburgh still have to expand their game from a slightly old-fashioned direct style or they will be left behind at the business end of tournaments.
Standing still is equivalent to going backwards and the current raft of players they have need to push back more, ask more questions, and start to lead the team rather than being led.
Yes there were mistakes along the way and incidences I got wrong on and off the pitch.
I do think his introspection is very evident through the article though, and I agree with him that regardless of whether his face fitted with Edinburgh, he would have had much to give back to Scottish rugby generally. I do hope to see him involved in future in some capacity as the younger generation could do a lot worse than listen to him and learn from his experience.
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clydecloggie
- Posts: 1198
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:31 am
Some juicy rumours flying around about who will play full-back for Glasgow this weekend.
Huw Jones the official Rumour Mill front runner.
Danny Wilson has said it will be a 'surprise selection', apparently.
Huw Jones the official Rumour Mill front runner.
Danny Wilson has said it will be a 'surprise selection', apparently.
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KingBlairhorn
- Posts: 1856
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
In terms of his broken field running it seems a good fit, and defensive frailties that may or may not exist in his game will be in some aspects less important at fullback (if more obvious) as it is more of a last-ditch kind of position. But, has anyone ever seen him kick tactically at all? I think I recall a few grubbers but not any kind of positionally astute tactical kicking...clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:10 pm Some juicy rumours flying around about who will play full-back for Glasgow this weekend.
Huw Jones the official Rumour Mill front runner.
Danny Wilson has said it will be a 'surprise selection', apparently.
I have definate, if not conclusive, visions of his stubby little legs not being very good at kickingKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:53 pmIn terms of his broken field running it seems a good fit, and defensive frailties that may or may not exist in his game will be in some aspects less important at fullback (if more obvious) as it is more of a last-ditch kind of position. But, has anyone ever seen him kick tactically at all? I think I recall a few grubbers but not any kind of positionally astute tactical kicking...clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:10 pm Some juicy rumours flying around about who will play full-back for Glasgow this weekend.
Huw Jones the official Rumour Mill front runner.
Danny Wilson has said it will be a 'surprise selection', apparently.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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clydecloggie
- Posts: 1198
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:31 am
Agree that his broken field running suits full-back. He also played a bit at wing for the Stormers so has some back-three experience.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:53 pmIn terms of his broken field running it seems a good fit, and defensive frailties that may or may not exist in his game will be in some aspects less important at fullback (if more obvious) as it is more of a last-ditch kind of position. But, has anyone ever seen him kick tactically at all? I think I recall a few grubbers but not any kind of positionally astute tactical kicking...clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:10 pm Some juicy rumours flying around about who will play full-back for Glasgow this weekend.
Huw Jones the official Rumour Mill front runner.
Danny Wilson has said it will be a 'surprise selection', apparently.
Defensive positioning is really important at full-back though, as is catching high balls and tactical kicking - on those three elements I'm not sure, simply because I haven't really seen him do it.
I assume he can put boot to ball but I'd imagine it'll be left more to Hastings and whoever plays 12 (Pete Horne perhaps?) to do that.
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KingBlairhorn
- Posts: 1856
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
I've definitely seen him effectively take high balls before plenty times - I don't have too much concern about that (or at least no more concern that he is any more error prone in that regard than the rest of the Scottish lads!) but I agree on positioning and kicking. Positioning should be teachable at this point, but learning to kick (presuming he can't already) at this stage of his career would be a challenge.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:34 pmAgree that his broken field running suits full-back. He also played a bit at wing for the Stormers so has some back-three experience.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:53 pmIn terms of his broken field running it seems a good fit, and defensive frailties that may or may not exist in his game will be in some aspects less important at fullback (if more obvious) as it is more of a last-ditch kind of position. But, has anyone ever seen him kick tactically at all? I think I recall a few grubbers but not any kind of positionally astute tactical kicking...clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:10 pm Some juicy rumours flying around about who will play full-back for Glasgow this weekend.
Huw Jones the official Rumour Mill front runner.
Danny Wilson has said it will be a 'surprise selection', apparently.
Defensive positioning is really important at full-back though, as is catching high balls and tactical kicking - on those three elements I'm not sure, simply because I haven't really seen him do it.
I assume he can put boot to ball but I'd imagine it'll be left more to Hastings and whoever plays 12 (Pete Horne perhaps?) to do that.
Where is OTOTM when you need him to tell us exactly how often he has kicked and how effectively!
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Chrysoprase
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:59 am
What Warburton had to say about concussion was pretty fecken scary. There's a bit in his book when George North was telling him and Dan Lydiate how worried he was because in the game they'd just finished he (North) had a period of several minutes after a head knock when he had no idea what was going on and couldn't remember anything. Warburton and Lydiate started laughing because that happened to them "in every game"robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:58 am We have at least seen some positive changes in the last few years. There's a lot more attention paid to concussion now, for instance. And hopefully this year's law interpretation changes will stick, because massive players flying in like missiles off their feet at the breakdown must be a significant factor in the physical load.
It's difficult to see how some of the injuries can be avoided though. It's big guys moving quite rapidly and that means there will be some big collisions.
Considering the hand wringing that went on around North and his concussions I think you're absolutely right that things have got much better in that respect.
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KingBlairhorn
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- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
You only have to look to American Football and their issues around CTE to see how endemic brain injury can become in a sport. Clearly rugby is a different sport with different collision mechanics so I am not saying we are going to see wholesale CTE in ex-rugby players, but where the parallels do lie are in the masterclass the NFL have given in how not to approach player safety. This should have been dealt with in detail by World Rugby years ago. There have been real improvements over the last few years but there must be concerns it is much too late for some.Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:44 pmWhat Warburton had to say about concussion was pretty fecken scary. There's a bit in his book when George North was telling him and Dan Lydiate how worried he was because in the game they'd just finished he (North) had a period of several minutes after a head knock when he had no idea what was going on and couldn't remember anything. Warburton and Lydiate started laughing because that happened to them "in every game"robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:58 am We have at least seen some positive changes in the last few years. There's a lot more attention paid to concussion now, for instance. And hopefully this year's law interpretation changes will stick, because massive players flying in like missiles off their feet at the breakdown must be a significant factor in the physical load.
It's difficult to see how some of the injuries can be avoided though. It's big guys moving quite rapidly and that means there will be some big collisions.
Considering the hand wringing that went on around North and his concussions I think you're absolutely right that things have got much better in that respect.
Is anyone actually suggesting this would be a permanent change? Surely not. I can't even see him doing a job as a temporary thing nevermind a permanent change to be honest. It's a really quite specialised position and I don't see him having the attributes at all.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:37 pmI've definitely seen him effectively take high balls before plenty times - I don't have too much concern about that (or at least no more concern that he is any more error prone in that regard than the rest of the Scottish lads!) but I agree on positioning and kicking. Positioning should be teachable at this point, but learning to kick (presuming he can't already) at this stage of his career would be a challenge.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:34 pmAgree that his broken field running suits full-back. He also played a bit at wing for the Stormers so has some back-three experience.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:53 pm
In terms of his broken field running it seems a good fit, and defensive frailties that may or may not exist in his game will be in some aspects less important at fullback (if more obvious) as it is more of a last-ditch kind of position. But, has anyone ever seen him kick tactically at all? I think I recall a few grubbers but not any kind of positionally astute tactical kicking...
Defensive positioning is really important at full-back though, as is catching high balls and tactical kicking - on those three elements I'm not sure, simply because I haven't really seen him do it.
I assume he can put boot to ball but I'd imagine it'll be left more to Hastings and whoever plays 12 (Pete Horne perhaps?) to do that.
Where is OTOTM when you need him to tell us exactly how often he has kicked and how effectively!
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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KingBlairhorn
- Posts: 1856
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
I'm not sure anyone has suggested it is permanent but you do have to wonder why they would try it in a game that, to be perfectly honest, Glasgow will probably be treating as more or less a warm up game. They have two young specialists in their squad in Smith and McLean plus Glenn Bryce is still involved I think and Seymour could be an option. If they aren't intending on playing Jones in this position consistently through the season, or at least trying him out there so he can either make a claim for the spot or cover it from the bench, then really why bother? As far as I am aware there are no injuries - there must therefore be a purpose to the experiment?Slick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:21 pmIs anyone actually suggesting this would be a permanent change? Surely not. I can't even see him doing a job as a temporary thing nevermind a permanent change to be honest. It's a really quite specialised position and I don't see him having the attributes at all.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:37 pmI've definitely seen him effectively take high balls before plenty times - I don't have too much concern about that (or at least no more concern that he is any more error prone in that regard than the rest of the Scottish lads!) but I agree on positioning and kicking. Positioning should be teachable at this point, but learning to kick (presuming he can't already) at this stage of his career would be a challenge.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:34 pm
Agree that his broken field running suits full-back. He also played a bit at wing for the Stormers so has some back-three experience.
Defensive positioning is really important at full-back though, as is catching high balls and tactical kicking - on those three elements I'm not sure, simply because I haven't really seen him do it.
I assume he can put boot to ball but I'd imagine it'll be left more to Hastings and whoever plays 12 (Pete Horne perhaps?) to do that.
Where is OTOTM when you need him to tell us exactly how often he has kicked and how effectively!
I'm worried we may never see the likes again. Maybe a Rennie thing? Hope so. .
And on the 7th day, the Lord said "Let there be Finn Russell".
I was going to but I saw that as a 'rest of the world' person I can watch the rest of the season with the Pro 14's own streaming service for €10. I will find out the hard way tomorrow whether the service is any good.
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KingBlairhorn
- Posts: 1856
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
I've got it on autorenew for £89 (for their Premier Player product). There were apparently lots of people that struggled with quality of broadcast etc. last year but I certainly wasn't one of them - I stream to my ipad and then cast directly to my Samsung TV, works a treat. I also have streamed from an android tablet to a firestick when away from home and that worked fine too. £89 is nothing really to let me see all of both the Glasgow and Edinburgh games so I'm happy enough to pay it. I think the pricing compares very favourably with what I would be paying if they were on BT / Sky, as I would have to massively subsidise the football to get access. I haven't looked for some time, but I think I would be looking at subs of maybe £30 per month for sports through either of those platforms on top of a basic access fee, so maybe £50 per month?
TLDR; £89 is fuck all, easy decision.
£7.50 a month for all the Edinburgh and Glasgow games, live as well as on demand later, and you get the big Irish derbies thrown in as well.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:40 amI've got it on autorenew for £89 (for their Premier Player product). There were apparently lots of people that struggled with quality of broadcast etc. last year but I certainly wasn't one of them - I stream to my ipad and then cast directly to my Samsung TV, works a treat. I also have streamed from an android tablet to a firestick when away from home and that worked fine too. £89 is nothing really to let me see all of both the Glasgow and Edinburgh games so I'm happy enough to pay it. I think the pricing compares very favourably with what I would be paying if they were on BT / Sky, as I would have to massively subsidise the football to get access. I haven't looked for some time, but I think I would be looking at subs of maybe £30 per month for sports through either of those platforms on top of a basic access fee, so maybe £50 per month?
TLDR; £89 is fuck all, easy decision.
That's decent value IMO
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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KingBlairhorn
- Posts: 1856
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am
It can be a bit Irish-centric but I guess if we want more Scottish-focused programming we probably need more Scottish-focused subscribers.
I'd agree with that but it's a small price to pay for guaranteeing coverage of every Edinburgh or Glasgow match.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:33 amIt can be a bit Irish-centric but I guess if we want more Scottish-focused programming we probably need more Scottish-focused subscribers.
I notice bbc Scotland has highlights on Monday
