NPR

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:10 pm After watching Chasing the sun, Jantjies will be a shoe in.

He offers much more to the camp then just a replacement flyhalf.

He also played well the last few CC matches.

He is a very good player...for a certain style of play.
You have to build your gameplan around his skill set (like the Lions do). If you force him to play a more conservative and physical game, he struggles unfortunately.

I don’t think Bosch or Willemse is the answer either. We might end up having to bring Morne Steyn back into the mix.

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:20 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:10 pm After watching Chasing the sun, Jantjies will be a shoe in.

He offers much more to the camp then just a replacement flyhalf.

He also played well the last few CC matches.

He is a very good player...for a certain style of play.
You have to build your gameplan around his skill set (like the Lions do). If you force him to play a more conservative and physical game, he struggles unfortunately.

I don’t think Bosch or Willemse is the answer either. We might end up having to bring Morne Steyn back into the mix.

Bring back Braam!

Chilli wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:07 pm

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:20 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:10 pm After watching Chasing the sun, Jantjies will be a shoe in.

He offers much more to the camp then just a replacement flyhalf.

He also played well the last few CC matches.

He is a very good player...for a certain style of play.
You have to build your gameplan around his skill set (like the Lions do). If you force him to play a more conservative and physical game, he struggles unfortunately.

I don’t think Bosch or Willemse is the answer either. We might end up having to bring Morne Steyn back into the mix.

Bring back Braam!

I really struggle to understand how Willemse can even be in the running. Even the media has deserted him after years of hyping him. Every second article on social media used to be about him. Now nothing. Nada. Niks

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:43 am
I really struggle to understand how Willemse can even be in the running. Even the media has deserted him after years of hyping him. Every second article on social media used to be about him. Now nothing. Nada. Niks

Ja, well........in the 3 or 4 years that he has been around he has shown glimpses of what he can offer, but mostly he has been remarkably underwhelming, petulant and of weak character.

I am sure that he is very talented and that he, when on form, could offer something, but there is nothing stable enough that he has shown to.bring him even close.

Having said that there are no 10's in SA that suit the Rassie style of play.

The one thing that we've come to understand about Rassie is that he picks players around his gameplan.

Pollard is such an attritional player, we have to prepare for the second and third choice. EJ makes sense as he's got the experience, and the only way I see Bosch coming into the picture is if Rassie wants to head towards a kick-based gameplan.

But with the Lions coming up in a few months, I don't see too much changing from the RWC squad.

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:19 am The one thing that we've come to understand about Rassie is that he picks players around his gameplan.

Pollard is such an attritional player, we have to prepare for the second and third choice. EJ makes sense as he's got the experience, and the only way I see Bosch coming into the picture is if Rassie wants to head towards a kick-based gameplan.

But with the Lions coming up in a few months, I don't see too much changing from the RWC squad.

So who replaces the injured Pollard?

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:48 am So who replaces the injured Pollard?

At the moment, Elton. If Pollard is not ready in time for the Lions, then we'll have to pick him. As impressed as I am with Morne, I'm still not sure he'd be the best replacement.

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:50 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:48 am So who replaces the injured Pollard?

At the moment, Elton. If Pollard is not ready in time for the Lions, then we'll have to pick him. As impressed as I am with Morne, I'm still not sure he'd be the best replacement.

But EJ doesn't play to Rassie 's style.

If Pollard remains injured I think that we will see FS at 10.

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:57 am If Pollard remains injured I think that we will see FS at 10.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, but then we'd need to see him getting game time at 10 for the Cheetahs.

It will also be interesting to see who plays 10 for the Lions. Between Farrell, Sexton and Russell they've got three very different players to pick from.

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:18 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:57 am If Pollard remains injured I think that we will see FS at 10.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, but then we'd need to see him getting game time at 10 for the Cheetahs.

It will also be interesting to see who plays 10 for the Lions. Between Farrell, Sexton and Russell they've got three very different players to pick from.

Or Ford.

I look forward to this.

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:23 am I look forward to this.

I don't think he'll make the cut. If he does it will only be for the dirt-trackers. Even Sexton is far from the player he used to be.

Finn Russell scares me the most. Although he doesn't quite fit the Lions-style of play, he's a Wille le Roux type player who will light up the game.

I can't wait either. It's going to be epic. So glad I got my ticket for the pinnacle of the tour, a match in Durban against the Sharks. Everything else is a sideshow.

I think our first 15 is pretty much settled for the time being. I have not seen to much from anyone else to unseat players unless through injury. But the makeup of the whole squad might change a bit. There is a couple of guys that do not seem to be on form since rugby restarted. Jantjies at 9 for example is not looking good at all and seem to act like a petulant little boy these days each time he gets on the field. I also hope our WC locks are all available for the Lions tour, the next lot has not shown much consistency so far, some games the guys look great just to be the opposite the next week. No loose head prop has been that consistent either as a possible replacement for beast in the squad.

I would like to see Gans as an understudy to Am in the squad. He seems like someone that will be great to bring on when you want to change the game a bit. Arendse looks like a great player that can cover any of the back three, but I think the Lions tour will come to early for him.

Like many mentioned 10 might be a real problem if Pollard is injured. None of our other flyhalves seem to be able to tough it out when the game gets very physical, like it many times do in test rugby. That is why I think Jantjies never fully made the grade at test level. Super Rugby was perfectly set up for him in the way most teams play more open fast rugby in SR instead of the more attractional stuff you see at test level. And with the Lions squad most likely having a large group of england players in it, those three test will be brutal for the 10's .Bosch is a fantastic kicker but I worry that the test style of play will not suit him either. We seem to have a whole bunch of very talented flyhalves but none of them are taking it to the next level of consistency/skill required.

So when all is fit the first XV does pick itself quite easy at this moment, but for me the squad as a whole have a lot of question marks related to people completely out of form or just not pushing through to the next level needed.

To replace Beast I would use Tank or Trevor. Ox might be close to the mix too. At tighthead we have Fat Frans and Koch.
Lock is a bit of a worry . The really good ones are all injured . However 4 lock could very well be Elstadt.
Back up 9 and 10 if Pollard is injured are the real worries.

I'll probably go to the match here in PE.

You guys heard of a bloke called Kitshoff?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:10 pm You guys heard of a bloke called Kitshoff?

The bloke who played in the Bomb Squad? Yes, we have. He should now be fist choice [even after going backwards against he Mpumalanga Pumas] and we still need a back up........................................

bok_viking wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:44 am I think our first 15 is pretty much settled for the time being. I have not seen to much from anyone else to unseat players unless through injury. But the makeup of the whole squad might change a bit.

I think Rassie and Nienaber might surprise us in the next year or two. Now that they have the time before the next RWC they are going to try some unconventional things.

The one idea that was floated was to have multiple Bok squads to be used for various occasions...TRC Home Squad, TRC Australia&NZ squad, and a NH Squad.
In the age of Covid, this might actually be a genius move...building depth and having pods of experienced players scattered across the globe.

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:06 am

bok_viking wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:44 am I think our first 15 is pretty much settled for the time being. I have not seen to much from anyone else to unseat players unless through injury. But the makeup of the whole squad might change a bit.

I think Rassie and Nienaber might surprise us in the next year or two. Now that they have the time before the next RWC they are going to try some unconventional things.

The one idea that was floated was to have multiple Bok squads to be used for various occasions...TRC Home Squad, TRC Australia&NZ squad, and a NH Squad.
In the age of Covid, this might actually be a genius move...building depth and having pods of experienced players scattered across the globe.

I hear you about Covid, but imo, the real reason that nz fell apart in the last RWC was the fact that they could not decide on their best 15 and stick with it. Yes, if players aren't performing or another is shooting the lights out, make the change, but don't just change for the sake of changing. Combinations take time to develop.

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:09 am I hear you about Covid, but imo, the real reason that nz fell apart in the last RWC was the fact that they could not decide on their best 15 and stick with it. Yes, if players aren't performing or another is shooting the lights out, make the change, but don't just change for the sake of changing. Combinations take time to develop.

I hear you and I'm also skeptical of whether this approach is the way to go, but we have to understand that the landscape is constantly changing and timing is key.
NZ was trying to go for a dual playmaker gameplan which might not have been the right way to do things. "Too many chefs in the kitchen", so to speak.

But I do think there might be merit in a SH Bok team and a NH Bok team...and by that I don't neccisarily mean based in the SH or NH, but to play SH sides and NH sides.
I think what Rassie and Jacques might be hinting at is that our players gain a certain familiarity with NZ and Aus styles of play, their players, their facilities, the conditions etc; because we play against them fairly frequently. Similarly, we have a massive pool of NH based players who have become familiar with those conditions, coaching styles and gameplans. That know the stadiums and the opposition players. It makes sense to try and tap into that wealth of experience and not just ship in half a squad of players for the first training camp 2 weeks before a test series starts like we are currently doing.

Yes it is kindof working for us now, but we have to face facts that the center of gravity for rugby has settled in Europe (just like it did for soccer) and we have to build our future plans and strategies around that.
We have a massive advantage over other countries in our huge player pool. We need to find innovative ways to exploit that, while our players gravitate to Europe and can then get poached.
A dual squad system could be a way to lock-in a larger group of players by giving them Bok caps.

I agree that we need to continue with tried and tested combinations, but what worries me is the lack of game time most of our players have had (excluding the NH based ones). When was the last time Faf passed a ball to Handre?

I agree with Blake that we should use this as an opportunity to develop our NH and SH teams.

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:37 am

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:09 am I hear you about Covid, but imo, the real reason that nz fell apart in the last RWC was the fact that they could not decide on their best 15 and stick with it. Yes, if players aren't performing or another is shooting the lights out, make the change, but don't just change for the sake of changing. Combinations take time to develop.

I hear you and I'm also skeptical of whether this approach is the way to go, but we have to understand that the landscape is constantly changing and timing is key.
NZ was trying to go for a dual playmaker gameplan which might not have been the right way to do things. "Too many chefs in the kitchen", so to speak.

But I do think there might be merit in a SH Bok team and a NH Bok team...and by that I don't neccisarily mean based in the SH or NH, but to play SH sides and NH sides.
I think what Rassie and Jacques might be hinting at is that our players gain a certain familiarity with NZ and Aus styles of play, their players, their facilities, the conditions etc; because we play against them fairly frequently. Similarly, we have a massive pool of NH based players who have become familiar with those conditions, coaching styles and gameplans. That know the stadiums and the opposition players. It makes sense to try and tap into that wealth of experience and not just ship in half a squad of players for the first training camp 2 weeks before a test series starts like we are currently doing.

Yes it is kindof working for us now, but we have to face facts that the center of gravity for rugby has settled in Europe (just like it did for soccer) and we have to build our future plans and strategies around that.
We have a massive advantage over other countries in our huge player pool. We need to find innovative ways to exploit that, while our players gravitate to Europe and can then get poached.
I dual squad system could be a way to lock-in a larger group of players by giving them Bok caps.

In which squad will Kade start at 10?

I don't agree...capping every youngster voks up their international career.

Like Curwin...that lad could already be capped for another country but now is vokked because of being capped a few times for the boks.
Same with the Du Preez brothers and Akkers etc.

Just pick a team ad work with it. Don't hold back youngsters you dont consider 1st choice or fringe.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:12 am In which squad will Kade start at 10?

He is so versatile will fit like Willemse in Rassie 6/2 bench split.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:59 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:12 am In which squad will Kade start at 10?

He is so versatile will fit like Willemse in Rassie 6/2 bench split.

Nou wil jy net kak aanjaag.

I was just reading through the average age of our RWC squad. After the Lions tour, we must blood new young players. The team will be too old for 2023. Need fresh and young players coming through, to increase competition if anything.

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:09 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:59 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:12 am In which squad will Kade start at 10?

He is so versatile will fit like Willemse in Rassie 6/2 bench split.

Nou wil jy net kak aanjaag.

Sir Chillie, Willemse have a WC gold medal. Kade played in the trials, surely Nienaber liked what he saw.

Rassie winning quote, I select the right player, not the best player.

There's nothing like Cape types and hyping up talented schoolkids.

Bring back Morne.

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:37 am
I hear you and I'm also skeptical of whether this approach is the way to go, but we have to understand that the landscape is constantly changing and timing is key.
NZ was trying to go for a dual playmaker gameplan which might not have been the right way to do things. "Too many chefs in the kitchen", so to speak.

But I do think there might be merit in a SH Bok team and a NH Bok team...and by that I don't neccisarily mean based in the SH or NH, but to play SH sides and NH sides.
I think what Rassie and Jacques might be hinting at is that our players gain a certain familiarity with NZ and Aus styles of play, their players, their facilities, the conditions etc; because we play against them fairly frequently. Similarly, we have a massive pool of NH based players who have become familiar with those conditions, coaching styles and gameplans. That know the stadiums and the opposition players. It makes sense to try and tap into that wealth of experience and not just ship in half a squad of players for the first training camp 2 weeks before a test series starts like we are currently doing.

Yes it is kindof working for us now, but we have to face facts that the center of gravity for rugby has settled in Europe (just like it did for soccer) and we have to build our future plans and strategies around that.
We have a massive advantage over other countries in our huge player pool. We need to find innovative ways to exploit that, while our players gravitate to Europe and can then get poached.
A dual squad system could be a way to lock-in a larger group of players by giving them Bok caps.

I reckon this whole NH/SH team thing is largely to do with finances. Having to fly out and accommodate a whole squad with back room staff on the end of year tours must be very expensive. They would be stupid not use players already there, it's a massive saving on yearly costs and besides it's not as if we're going to sacrifice on players quality, in many instances as we've seen last year the players up North is better than what we have over here.

This "combinations needs time to gell" thing is also a bit over stated sometimes if you ask me. I mean sure they need time but how much time? Do they need months playing together or is a week or two practice enough. Most of the big name players that went up North seemed to do just fine with their new team mates and came out firing on their first game.

NH based team (excl. Japan)

1. Coonie / Juan Schoeman
2. Bismarck / Debwa / Akker
3. Wilco Louw
4. Eben
5. RG Snyman
6. Edstadt / Marcel Coetzee / Jannes Kirsten
7. JLdP / Liebenberg
8. Dan dP / Ruan Ackerman / Adendorff
9. Faf / Reinach
10. Goosen / Rob dP
11. Rhule
12. AE / de Allende
13. Rohan JvR / Venter
14. Kolbe
15.

average joe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:08 pm I reckon this whole NH/SH team thing is largely to do with finances. Having to fly out and accommodate a whole squad with back room staff on the end of year tours must be very expensive. They would be stupid not use players already there, it's a massive saving on yearly costs and besides it's not as if we're going to sacrifice on players quality, in many instances as we've seen last year the players up North is better than what we have over here.

This "combinations needs time to gell" thing is also a bit over stated sometimes if you ask me. I mean sure they need time but how much time? Do they need months playing together or is a week or two practice enough. Most of the big name players that went up North seemed to do just fine with their new team mates and came out firing on their first game.

I am inclined to agree, but I don't think it is purely financial. You'll maybe save on some plane tickets, but you still have to put the squad up in accommodation etc.
I personally think the value lies in familiarity with the opponents and playing conditions. There's a reason a guy like Felix Jones is on the SARU payroll.

Rassie has made peace with the fact that our top talent will inevitably end up in Europe for their payday and embraced this reality. The next logical step is to put down the proper infrastructure and management teams up there to make the most out of the situation and ultimately try to turn it into an advantage of some kind.

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:18 pm NH based team (excl. Japan)

1. Coonie / Juan Schoeman
2. Bismarck / Debwa / Akker
3. Wilco Louw
4. Eben
5. RG Snyman
6. Edstadt / Marcel Coetzee / Jannes Kirsten
7. JLdP / Liebenberg
8. Dan dP / Ruan Ackerman / Adendorff
9. Faf / Reinach
10. Goosen / Rob dP
11. Rhule
12. AE / de Allende
13. Rohan JvR / Venter
14. Kolbe
15.

Some decent quality in there, but also some journeymen. Not sure if there are enough "scrappers" in there for Rassie's liking.
Loosies lack...something and not convinced on the props either. Halfbacks look decent and midfield is solid. Back 3, with the exception of Kolbe is weak.
Has Rhule's game improved up North? Or is he still as weak on defense as he was before he left? Has Willie retired?

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:32 pm Some decent quality in there, but also some journeymen. Not sure if there are enough "scrappers" in there for Rassie's liking.
Loosies lack...something and not convinced on the props either. Halfbacks look decent and midfield is solid. Back 3, with the exception of Kolbe is weak.
Has Rhule's game improved up North? Or is he still as weak on defense as he was before he left? Has Willie retired?

Ja it's just something I've thrashed together based on what I have seen in the last few weeks. Agree about the scrappers, Rassie likes his hond.

I chuckled when I put Rhule's name there. I only did because I saw him score a couple of tries in a highlights reel. No idea what form he is in, but I don't think he was ever good enough for the Boks.

So many of our overseas Boks have been capped by Scotland it has narrowed the selection down.

Will is in Japan, isn't he? Left Wasps earlier this year.

I doubt the idea was to have two whole teams though.

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:18 pm NH based team (excl. Japan)

1. Coonie / Juan Schoeman
2. Bismarck / Debwa / Akker
3. Wilco Louw
4. Eben
5. RG Snyman
6. Edstadt / Marcel Coetzee / Jannes Kirsten
7. JLdP / Liebenberg
8. Dan dP / Ruan Ackerman / Adendorff
9. Faf / Reinach
10. Goosen / Rob dP
11. Rhule
12. AE / de Allende
13. Rohan JvR / Venter
14. Kolbe
15.

RDP??????????????????????????????? Fuck Right Off!

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm

RDP??????????????????????????????? Fuck Right Off!

Is that the only problem you see with that team?

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:08 pm There's nothing like Cape types and hyping up talented schoolkids.

Bring back Morne.

Are you stupid? Most of your Bulls team were talented school kids from these values.

Get a life, doos.

Who's going to be the Boks' biggest rivals come 2021 (and even beyond)?

1) Team/s most likely to beat the Boks'
2) Team most likely to knock them off their #1 spot on the rankings.


1) England, as always the ABs (despite the Kiwis' recent form, or lack thereof). That's about it.

2) The Boks' are sitting comfortably at 1 and will do so for the next 2 or 3 years at least. Basically like the Kiwis' did 3/4/5 years ago. As it stands currently, I don't see any of the top 5 even closing the 5 point gap, nevermind overtaking the Boks, except maybe England.

monkey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:40 pm Who's going to be the Boks' biggest rivals come 2021 (and even beyond)?

1) Team/s most likely to beat the Boks'
2) Team most likely to knock them off their #1 spot on the rankings.


1) England, as always the ABs (despite the Kiwis' recent form, or lack thereof). That's about it.

2) The Boks' are sitting comfortably at 1 and will do so for the next 2 or 3 years at least. Basically like the Kiwis' did 3/4/5 years ago. As it stands currently, I don't see any of the top 5 even closing the 5 point gap, nevermind overtaking the Boks, except maybe England.

Who is this Noob tempting the Mockers Gods like this?? Shameful behavior!

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:25 pm

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm

RDP??????????????????????????????? Fuck Right Off!

Is that the only problem you see with that team?

YOU Sir, know exactly how to get my blood pressure up.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:29 pm

monkey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:40 pm Who's going to be the Boks' biggest rivals come 2021 (and even beyond)?

1) Team/s most likely to beat the Boks'
2) Team most likely to knock them off their #1 spot on the rankings.


1) England, as always the ABs (despite the Kiwis' recent form, or lack thereof). That's about it.

2) The Boks' are sitting comfortably at 1 and will do so for the next 2 or 3 years at least. Basically like the Kiwis' did 3/4/5 years ago. As it stands currently, I don't see any of the top 5 even closing the 5 point gap, nevermind overtaking the Boks, except maybe England.

Who is this Noob tempting the Mockers Gods like this?? Shameful behavior!

Appeasing the Mockers might have been the goal...