Americas Cup - Official Thread

[stunt_cunt]

Definitely a boat race, it's what the competition deserves bt its a bit nerve wracking!

[Gumboot]

Definitely a boat race, it's what the competition deserves bt its a bit nerve wracking!

Yep, LR is humming. Don't fancy our chances if we drop the next one.

[Kiwias]

LR is running very smoothly. ETNZ has to lift its game or we're fucked.

[Kiwias]

A chart showing that ETNZ is faster upwind and downwind and consistently has higher VMG, but sailed nearly 2km longer than LR. Why would Burling do that?

[stunt_cunt]

They're being forced to. Once LR gets ahead they'll tack on top of the opponent and keep them in the fluffy dirty air. ETNZ gets in that fluffy air and they're not so fast.

That 200 odd meter just from the start line practically sealed it.

[stunt_cunt]

Righto. Gigantic fuckup for LR and likely gave it away.

[Kiwias]

They're being forced to. Once LR gets ahead they'll tack on top of the opponent and keep them in the fluffy dirty air. ETNZ gets in that fluffy air and they're not so fast.

That 200 odd meter just from the start line practically sealed it.

I guessed it was due to that, thanks for confirming it. Out of interest, what is the maximum distance between the boats at which the air from the leading boat remains "dirty"?

[Kiwias]

Righto. Gigantic fuckup for LR and likely gave it away.

Similar to ETNZ in Race 1 earlier.

[Kiwias]

When LR is in the lead, the gap does not seem to widen dramatically whereas ETNZ seems able to expand its lead. I guess the data about speed and VMG mentioned earlier is accurate.

[Ymx]

Balls fall asleep through and missed first race: though pleased I did.

Hope the wind stays up enough to not cause dramas in the second.

This is going to be a slow and tough race

[stunt_cunt]

They're being forced to. Once LR gets ahead they'll tack on top of the opponent and keep them in the fluffy dirty air. ETNZ gets in that fluffy air and they're not so fast.

That 200 odd meter just from the start line practically sealed it.

I guessed it was due to that, thanks for confirming it. Out of interest, what is the maximum distance between the boats at which the air from the leading boat remains "dirty"?

I don't know, but in light air it's greatly exaggerated over a stiffer breeze. It's been pretty much top class from LR since the pre christmas racing.

[Ymx]

Please don’t let us get screwed by the wind

[Ymx]

Italy’s VMG looked better on that leg mostly.

Nice that they’re finally showing VMG instead of speed

[Ymx]

Downwind VMG shows my NZ faster on that leg

[Kiwias]

They're being forced to. Once LR gets ahead they'll tack on top of the opponent and keep them in the fluffy dirty air. ETNZ gets in that fluffy air and they're not so fast.

That 200 odd meter just from the start line practically sealed it.

I guessed it was due to that, thanks for confirming it. Out of interest, what is the maximum distance between the boats at which the air from the leading boat remains "dirty"?

I don't know, but in light air it's greatly exaggerated over a stiffer breeze. It's been pretty much top class from LR since the pre christmas racing.

[Ymx]

LR again faster I think upwind VMG wise.

[Kiwias]

3 - 3 after three days. Great for the neutral.

[Ymx]

SC what’s the wind expected to do over the next few days in Auckland?

[stunt_cunt]

Back to zero again. First to 4 for the win.

ETNZ wins start and sail away with it on their own.
LR wins the start and it's stay tacking on top of the opposition.

It's all a bit of a knife edge for the 2mins at the start but after quite predictable in predictable conditions. I think we need to see some heavier weather which I'm not sure is coming.
No wind shifts reduce it down to a 2min game of speed chess.

[stunt_cunt]

SC what’s the wind expected to do over the next few days in Auckland?

We're enjoying great fishing weather. Hot dry and light wind.
I think it might be touch and go with the same conditions all the way through to the 7th win.

[Ymx]

Right. So makes you wonder if that’s more in LR favour with the larger foils. Relatively speaking that is. Able to be in higher mode, and more rapid tacking.

[Flockwitt]

Commentary team saying if there is a day with high winds the smaller foil of the ETNZ should smoke it.

[stunt_cunt]

Right. So makes you wonder if that’s more in LR favour with the larger foils. Relatively speaking that is. Able to be in higher mode, and more rapid tacking.

They're both almost opposites. ETNZ wins the start and gets a nose in front they can sail away with it in clean air and have their own race. LR wins the start and they have the ability and tacking speed to stay on top of ETNZ and dictate the whole course. So they basically even out and it seems to boil down to that 2min start, with Port entry having a slight advantage with right of way - Except for today where both starboard entry boats winning the starts from errors from the port entry boat.

I would say advantage LR. Their crew work and the decision in having the dual helmsmen is pretty effective, they tack and gybe faster, they have a slow mode in the start box where they're able to maintain foiling at a lower speed, they're only really a couple clicks slower in boat speed with a higher VMG, they've been racing in crunch races since January. In contrast ETNZ look a bit rusty, their boat isn't monumentally faster in light conditions.

I think if LR dig deep and chuck all the trickery they can into that 2min start they can do enough in these conditions to win every race. ETNZ needs a lift in breeze to show what's believed to be a speed advantage realized, but that's no guarantee either way. It's fucking tight and ETNZ afterguard have to make the right decision every time in that 2min start to get out of this IMO.

[Ymx]

I think I agree with all of that.

In these wind levels the winner of the start will continue to win.

For the starts Jimmy & co is better and has a more manoeuvrable boat in the sense can stay up at slower speeds with more aggressive tacks.

Couldn’t decide if Pete was lucky today and it was just a sudden flat wind patch, or whether he carefully gave LR dirty air and that messed up the timings.

[Ymx]

A chart showing that ETNZ is faster upwind and downwind and consistently has higher VMG, but sailed nearly 2km longer than LR. Why would Burling do that?

Didn’t see this but if they had faster VMG they’d be the winners.

NZ boat going faster but more sideways which is optimal for them for the smaller foils from what I understand.

Having said that in the second race NZ sailed less distance perhaps they sailed higher towards the wind.

[Kiwias]

A chart showing that ETNZ is faster upwind and downwind and consistently has higher VMG, but sailed nearly 2km longer than LR. Why would Burling do that?

Didn’t see this but if they had faster VMG they’d be the winners.

NZ boat going faster but more sideways which is optimal for them for the smaller foils from what I understand.

Having said that in the second race NZ sailed less distance perhaps they sailed higher towards the wind.

A chart was displayed on screen toward the end of Race 1 today and the commentators made the comments I posted above. ETNZ had higher speeds and VMG both upward and downwind, but had sailed a significant distance more than LR. I do not pretend to know enough about sailing, which is why I asked the question.

I guess tomorrow we will be able to see full replays and I'll try to find it and post the image if I can.

[Ymx]

VMG is basically the forward speed component.

How fast you are moving toward the next leg from prev leg.

If you were heading in straight line to next leg your VMG = speed.

But you can’t and need to tack at angles. So you might be going 30 knots and have a VMG of 20 knots, because you are partly also going sideways to the next mark.

In any case distance to next mark /(divide by) VMG equal the time to get to the next mark.

The one who goes faster to the next mark is getting their first and winning.

So that’s why I said that. I didn’t see the bit you heard though.

In any case LR are travelling in a more direct line to the next mark than ETNZ because of their set up. So NZ had to travel further, although the extra angle enable NZ to go much faster which balances it.

It’s about finding the optimum angle not for outright speed but to produce fastest VMG. And that depends on your set up. NZ seems to need more angle to optimise VMG.

Having said that, the last race suggests they ran at a higher angle (more toward the next marker). So the distance travelled wasn’t as much, and they produced a fast race.

Actually will dig out a video I saw Outeridge did one.

[Ymx]

Here



Explains it much better than me

[Kiwias]

VMG is basically the forward speed component.

How fast you are moving toward the next leg from prev leg.

If you were heading in straight line to next leg your VMG = speed.

But you can’t and need to tack at angles. So you might be going 30 knots and have a VMG of 20 knots, because you are partly also going sideways to the next mark.

In any case distance to next mark /(divide by) VMG equal the time to get to the next mark.

The one who goes faster to the next mark is getting their first and winning.

So that’s why I said that. I didn’t see the bit you heard though.

In any case LR are travelling in a more direct line to the next mark than ETNZ because of their set up. So NZ had to travel further, although the extra angle enable NZ to go much faster which balances it.

It’s about finding the optimum angle not for outright speed but to produce fastest VMG. And that depends on your set up. NZ seems to need more angle to optimise VMG.

Having said that, the last race suggests they ran at a higher angle (more toward the next marker). So the distance travelled wasn’t as much, and they produced a fast race.

Actually will dig out a video I saw Outeridge did one.

Cheers. There is one other possibility -- that I completely misread/misheard their comments.

[Kiwias]

VMG is basically the forward speed component.

How fast you are moving toward the next leg from prev leg.

If you were heading in straight line to next leg your VMG = speed.

But you can’t and need to tack at angles. So you might be going 30 knots and have a VMG of 20 knots, because you are partly also going sideways to the next mark.

In any case distance to next mark /(divide by) VMG equal the time to get to the next mark.

The one who goes faster to the next mark is getting their first and winning.

So that’s why I said that. I didn’t see the bit you heard though.

In any case LR are travelling in a more direct line to the next mark than ETNZ because of their set up. So NZ had to travel further, although the extra angle enable NZ to go much faster which balances it.

It’s about finding the optimum angle not for outright speed but to produce fastest VMG. And that depends on your set up. NZ seems to need more angle to optimise VMG.

Having said that, the last race suggests they ran at a higher angle (more toward the next marker). So the distance travelled wasn’t as much, and they produced a fast race.

Actually will dig out a video I saw Outeridge did one.

Ymx

As I suspected may be the case, I conflated two charts. It is all clear now.

Speed differential


VMG

[Monkey Magic]

Think the trailing boat in both races end up with crap air so end up having to sail lower and further.

Interesting question from pj Montgomery in the press conference, asked spithill if he thought they'd ended up in their own wind shadow. Goes to show how much these boats disrupt air in the light conditions, means the trailing boats are stuffed, but means in higher winds we should see some fireworks

EDIT TO ADD

Way better explanation. Great channel for more technical side of the boat design and tactics

[stunt_cunt]

I reckon etnz will be hopeful of not getting started in this. Racing postponed until less marginal conditions.

[Kiwias]

I reckon etnz will be hopeful of not getting started in this. Racing postponed until less marginal conditions.

Any word yet on the new start time?

[Kiwias]

.

[stemoc]

poor Kimberlee Downs ...

[Ymx]

Is there a hard stop date on this comp imposed? As there was in the Prada Cup final

[Trapper]

Shit start again from ETNZ.... sigh

[Kiwias]

ETNZ proves that lead changes are possible

[Kiwias]

This is turning into a real race

[Ymx]

Wow. Lead change