NPR

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:12 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:05 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:45 pm MIght just be me and I am certainly no anti-vaxer nutbar but given how quickly this vaccine has been developed i dont mind not being in the first 15m people in line to get this, especially reading Saint's posts about this being very cutting edge in terms of vaccine development as well.

Great news on the whole though with fingers crossed a holiday to look forward to next summer.

You can over-read this. This is a technology that's been in development for 10+ years and is proven to work - a number of flu vaccines for recent strains have been tested and developed for instance. But this is the first time it's been used at any sort of scale, so regulators are going to be far more cautious than usual

Furry muff. I still get to see how the oldies, NHS staff and OJ’s bartenders trial it out first and see if they grow an extra head or wings or whatever

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:08 pm If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:08 pm If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:20 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:13 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:43 pm

Be interesting how you can tell the temp didn’t temporarily drop to -55 during transit either.

There's medical grade transport freezers that guarantee temperature to +/- 0.1 degrees. The first couple of stages of transit are the easy part - we can easily get this to the major hospitals that have the necessary storage capability. Getting it beyond there will be extremely difficult. In theory, it's supposed to be stable for up to 24 hours at higher temps, so subdistribution to pharmacies MIGGT be possible - the trouble being how to handle it, as even while it's warming up it would still be far too cold to handle

I was going to say it must survive at warmer temps for at least a time. If you know how many doses you have lined up for the day, you can take them out in the morning, and there's no issue?

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:54 pm I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:33 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:08 pm If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:06 pm

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:54 pm I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:14 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:33 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:08 pm If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

Well either that or isolate and toolbags like you will refuse to do that too.

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:06 pm

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:54 pm I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:44 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:06 pm

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:54 pm I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

It's hardly beyond the wit of man.

There are AI guys traveling over a large part of the world; with frozen Bull/Ram spunk in Liquid Nitrogen; & going around farms fertilizing Cows/Ewes.

In the same way that Dyson et al put their design teams to producing Ventilator designs (which thank deity we didn't need), they can surely put together designs for refrigerated storage for, say 500 doses, that is portable, & can be powered by a simple petrol genny

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:33 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:08 pm If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

The Dyson ventilator was shite and thank feck we did not need it.
The CoVent was a laughing stock tbh looked archaic and probably wasn't anywhere near as good as the vents by Resmed, Philips or Breas.
If anyone has seen the retrofitted UCL/Mercedes cpap 'whisperflow' then yes it was that bad.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:53 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:12 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:05 pm

You can over-read this. This is a technology that's been in development for 10+ years and is proven to work - a number of flu vaccines for recent strains have been tested and developed for instance. But this is the first time it's been used at any sort of scale, so regulators are going to be far more cautious than usual

Furry muff. I still get to see how the oldies, NHS staff and OJ’s bartenders trial it out first and see if they grow an extra head or wings or whatever

As a tactic to get people to take the vaccine; they should say it adds 4" to a mans cock, & two cups sizes to women.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:31 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:50 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:52 pm

Care home residents and staff first I would think.

Then hospital staff and teachers.

NHS

Then bartenders in my favourite pubs.

That might leave you with only nurses in the pub for company, so you might need to rethink your plan

Matt Hancock declared "black lives matter" as he spoke about a devastating report which has laid bare the way that BAME communities are much worse affected by coronavirus.

But despite his acknowledgement of the dreadful death toll from covid-19 among these communities, the Health Secretary did not announce any concrete proposals to help protect people affected.

Under pressure to explain why there were no recommendations being announced today, Mr Hancock insisted the government had "already taken action because it’s been clear right from the start."

He explained that the first four deaths of doctors were all people from BAME backgrounds.

He said: “It really struck me there was clearly a disparity and we’ve seen that disparity.”

He added: “Right across the world people are angry about racial injustice - and I get that. Black lives matter”.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:48 am June 2020

Matt Hancock declared "black lives matter" as he spoke about a devastating report which has laid bare the way that BAME communities are much worse affected by coronavirus.

But despite his acknowledgement of the dreadful death toll from covid-19 among these communities, the Health Secretary did not announce any concrete proposals to help protect people affected.

Under pressure to explain why there were no recommendations being announced today, Mr Hancock insisted the government had "already taken action because it’s been clear right from the start."

He explained that the first four deaths of doctors were all people from BAME backgrounds.

He said: “It really struck me there was clearly a disparity and we’ve seen that disparity.”

He added: “Right across the world people are angry about racial injustice - and I get that. Black lives matter”.

Nov 2020

Longshanks wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:43 am 154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:53 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:43 am 154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.

How many hosted house parties in October?

Longshanks wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:43 am 154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

Longshanks wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:43 am 154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:09 pm Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:09 pm Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:26 pm I'm not anti-vax or fat, old or high risk. But I'm also not keen on having one of 6 brand new vaccines rushed through in 1/10 of the normal time of other previous vaccines.

But I also want to take a holiday to USA next year and don't fancy ending up in a Chicago hospital on 90% oxygen.....what do I do when it (eventually) comes round to having my injection?

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:50 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:43 am 154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

The R in Liverpool has been below 1 for weeks.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:31 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:50 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:52 pm

Care home residents and staff first I would think.

Then hospital staff and teachers.

NHS

Then bartenders in my favourite pubs.

That might leave you with only nurses in the pub for company, so you might need to rethink your plan

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:22 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:09 pm Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

If you're just talking about reducing deaths, then giving it to high risk/elderly first will reduce the death rate. It won't seriously impact r0 as the high risk and elderly aren't driving that number. - and there are still the concerns about Long COVID

To reach "herd immunity", you need to get to somewhere around 66%-70% immunised, ideally more. Of course by the time we get to the bulk of the population we'll be into next spring, so should be on the downslope again, and we're really talking about preventing a third wave

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:24 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:09 pm Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

Think the estimates were 60% coverage. So 90% effectiveness would mean you want around 67% vaccinated. Probably best to aim for 75%. Given the long term effects however, you probably want to be vaccinating everyone since unless it's wiped out ( which is unlikely if it can still survive in animal populations) it's probably the healthier option.

So for life to return to normal 70% uptake i reckon. But make available to 100% for health benefits.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:53 pm
A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:00 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:53 pm
A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:00 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:53 pm
A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:44 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:00 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:53 pm
A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

Spanish Flu - four waves
Russian Flu (1890s) - five waves
Asian Flu - two waves then shifted into Hong Kong flu with a further two waves.

Bimbo making shit up again.