The Scottish Politics Thread

Where goats go to escape
Blackmac
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Big D wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:14 am
Blackmac wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:46 am
Sandstorm wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:24 pm

Scum bag
He's come up with an excuse from the Michael Matheson playbook. The Editor has called him a liar.
I am in a quandary on this one. Don't believe Neil Gray but the Record is several rungs below the Beano and Dandy.
Is anyone still in a quandary now that the grifting prick has been caught using public funds to take chauffeur driven cars to football matches with his friends and family. And yet again Swinney, the pathetic clown says the matter is closed.
Biffer
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Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
tc27
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Biffer wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:17 pm Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.
I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.
Blackmac
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tc27 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:36 am
Biffer wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:17 pm Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.
I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.
I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.
Biffer
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Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:33 am
tc27 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:36 am
Biffer wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:17 pm Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.
I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.
I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.
I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
robmatic
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Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am
Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:33 am
tc27 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:36 am

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.
I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.
I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
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Tichtheid
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robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am
Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:33 am

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.
I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Slick
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Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:42 am
robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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Tichtheid
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Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:48 am
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:42 am
robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.
Biffer
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robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am
Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:33 am

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.
I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Biffer
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Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:55 am
Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:48 am
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:42 am

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.
Yeah, it’s something that’s not exactly clear to me either. Different industries put different adjustments on, some better than others. In the Space industry, Scotland has 15% of the employees but only generates 1% of the turnover, according to a recent report on the industry. The report notes that this is because organisations are headquartered in the south east so there an inherent bias in distribution of gdp because of that. When you then start to look at profit and revenue and assign tax income on that basis, it can be distorted to the southeast and London and away from other regions and nations.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Slick
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Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:55 am
Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:48 am
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:42 am

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.
I don’t think it matters where the HQ is, all exports are counted as U.K. exports.

Still not sure if that’s answering your question
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Tichtheid
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Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:49 am
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:55 am
Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:48 am

Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.
I don’t think it matters where the HQ is, all exports are counted as U.K. exports.

Still not sure if that’s answering your question

I'm mixing my dates for figures here because it's all I could get from a first google,

GDP of London is £562.2Bn (2022 figures)
GDP of Scotland is £187Bn (2022 figures)

According to Scotch Whisky Association, the export value of whisky to the economy is £5.6Bn (2023). As biffer notes, adding that to the Scottish figure changes things, and that is only one industry.

The UK exports electricity to the European market, Scotland produces more than it uses yet we have higher standing charges than other areas of the UK (I think the Highland region pays something like 80% more than London for instance - I'd need to check to be sure on the actual number)

I'm not really coming to a conclusion on this, it's just things that appear to be anomalous to me.
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Paddington Bear
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Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Biffer
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Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:09 pm Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so
Not denying that, but it sounds like the words in the energy company marketing for the schemes. I want to be sure that the government and companies involved deliver genuine economic value for the area, rather than just skimming it off the top and buying a piano for the church hall.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Blackmac
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Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am
Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:33 am
tc27 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:36 am

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.
I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.
I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
It wasn't a dig at you. It was a dig at a lot of comments to that effect that have been made.
Blackmac
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Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:42 am
robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Good question, but it is another nationalist sound bite about how much the Scotch whisky industry is worth to the Scottish economy. As you have pointed out, as most of the distilleries are foreign owned, is it?
Blackmac
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Image
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:58 am
robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:46 am

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?
How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.
Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.
Slick
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Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:37 pm Image
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:58 am
robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.
Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.
We can really because we can use it as a resource and places that are not windy can’t
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
petej
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Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:11 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:09 pm Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so
Not denying that, but it sounds like the words in the energy company marketing for the schemes. I want to be sure that the government and companies involved deliver genuine economic value for the area, rather than just skimming it off the top and buying a piano for the church hall.
Skimming everything off the top is what our bloated services sector does. It is very funny when people complain how impossible/expensive it is build anything in the UK. It is part of our culture. The shear weight and bloat internal services in companies like finance, commercial, hr departments and external service sector just takes most of the money and time.
Biffer
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Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:37 pm Image
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:58 am
robmatic wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:37 am

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?
I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.
Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.
Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Blackmac
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Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:45 pm
Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:37 pm Image
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:58 am

I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.
Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.
Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.
You know we are getting paid a pittance for it.??

My question was how do we calculate it as a resource. We know there is x amount of oil, coal, etc, but that's not so easy with things like water and wind.
Biffer
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Blackmac wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:38 am
Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:45 pm
Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:37 pm Image

Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.
Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.
You know we are getting paid a pittance for it.??

My question was how do we calculate it as a resource. We know there is x amount of oil, coal, etc, but that's not so easy with things like water and wind.
It sounded more like you saying it couldn’t be calculated, rather than asking how we calculate it. And I didn’t say we should take a pittance for it, I was saying we shouldn’t. My point is, are we getting suitable value for it?
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
tc27
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Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

The wind isnt a resource until you build windmills to turn it into electricity and connect them to the grid..unless you build them with public money then I am not sure what skimming off you can do other than taxing profits/ground rents as you do with any other private business? If you ramp up the tax or stipulate that they have to provide free electricity to 'locals' the private capital will dry up. I will make the point again the renewable building surge is being made possible by giving investors high confidence returns from the GB energy market (with a floor set to the wholesale LNG generation price)


Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Answer from the Scottish government: https://www.gov.scot/publications/gover ... 4/pages/2/
Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT or insurance?
A: No. Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not simply on the location of company headquarters. VAT, and other taxes such as those related to insurance activity, are related to expenditure, and are therefore estimated based on expenditure that occurs in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.
Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so
My BiL is involved in the engineering side of this..he is very excited about some of the projects in the pipeline with renewables, there are also some big carbon capture and hydrogen generation projects that the UK is really well placed to for.
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Tichtheid
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tc27 wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:12 pm
Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.
Answer from the Scottish government: https://www.gov.scot/publications/gover ... 4/pages/2/
Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT or insurance?
A: No. Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not simply on the location of company headquarters. VAT, and other taxes such as those related to insurance activity, are related to expenditure, and are therefore estimated based on expenditure that occurs in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.

That's not the bit that answers my question. There is another part that talks about whisky consumed in the uk and the revenue that brings in and it also talks about exports, which Slick and I determined would be counted as UK exports.
Biffer
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tc27 wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:12 pm
Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

The wind isnt a resource until you build windmills to turn it into electricity and connect them to the grid..unless you build them with public money then I am not sure what skimming off you can do other than taxing profits/ground rents as you do with any other private business? If you ramp up the tax or stipulate that they have to provide free electricity to 'locals' the private capital will dry up. I will make the point again the renewable building surge is being made possible by giving investors high confidence returns from the GB energy market (with a floor set to the wholesale LNG generation price)
You could say that about any resource - it’s not worth anything until you have the infrastructure to exploit it.

Taxing profits is what happens anyway, to any business. Ground rents is a closer approximation of what I’m talking about although I’d prefer a percentage of revenue. And you have to pitch it at the level where it doesn’t put investment off. There are some schemes which do something like this for local communities, what I’d like is the broader licensing of them to include this as general taxation to Scottish govt. Or smarter people than me might come up with something more imaginative. We’re not talking about taxing them til the pips squeak here, just ensuring that we get a suitable level. We failed to do this in oil and gas - the Norwegians have made more money from their oil and gas extraction than the UK, due to a different model being used. It’s a clear demonstration that different models can produce more income without decreasing activity. I just want to ensure we don’t fuck it up again.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
tc27
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Good example of why we need a high capacity grid:

https://x.com/twallin_james/status/1862 ... 57872?s=19

Fwiw I have no problem with a regional pricing scheme that rewards places for adding power generation to the grid
Biffer
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tc27 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 3:03 pm Good example of why we need a high capacity grid:

https://x.com/twallin_james/status/1862 ... 57872?s=19

Fwiw I have no problem with a regional pricing scheme that rewards places for adding power generation to the grid
Yeah it's ridiculous. Should be incentiviaing companies with high flexible electricity utilisation to set up near the sources of power. Public investment in other infrastructure needed to then support those investments in transport, housing, schools, hospitals etc. Then we get real, lasting benefit. But at the moment, they're charged more to be near the source.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Slick
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It looks like the budget is going to be a case of a financial lifeline thrown and then being used to turn us into a state even more dependent on welfare.

All I've seen so far is the money being used to scrap the 2 child benefit cap (perhaps not a bad thing in itself), give the winter fuel payment back to pensioners, bung loads at the NHS without too much thought on what it's actually going to achieve and then bail themselves out of ridiculous unfunded council tax and pay increases.

There was a real chance to do something with this cash, like maybe look to grow a moribund economy, but no, chuck it all at things they can then use as a stick to beat the UK government with.

I'm not saying some of it isn't worthy, but it does seem we will just be back in the same position in fairly short order with delivery not matching rhetoric
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
Big D
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Slick wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 9:55 am It looks like the budget is going to be a case of a financial lifeline thrown and then being used to turn us into a state even more dependent on welfare.

All I've seen so far is the money being used to scrap the 2 child benefit cap (perhaps not a bad thing in itself), give the winter fuel payment back to pensioners, bung loads at the NHS without too much thought on what it's actually going to achieve and then bail themselves out of ridiculous unfunded council tax and pay increases.

There was a real chance to do something with this cash, like maybe look to grow a moribund economy, but no, chuck it all at things they can then use as a stick to beat the UK government with.

I'm not saying some of it isn't worthy, but it does seem we will just be back in the same position in fairly short order with delivery not matching rhetoric
It is very much a budget with an eye on 2026 and winning over voters, as any party would of course.

Will be interesting to see how significant the increase in CT will be. Another system in need of reform. Robison can say what she likes about there being no need for significant increases but that is no more than getting a dig in before the councils have their say.
Biffer
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Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Tichtheid
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Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:27 pm Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.
:lol:

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us
Biffer
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Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:36 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:27 pm Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.
:lol:

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us
I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Slick
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Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:41 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:36 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:27 pm Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.
:lol:

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us
I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.
Ahh, the two nodding dogs have come out to play
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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Tichtheid
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Slick wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:14 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:41 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:36 pm

:lol:

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us
I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.
Ahh, the two nodding dogs have come out to play

Let's be honest here, you were against the budget before it even started its first round of research, just because it was the SNP, just as I was with the Tories at Westminster.
Last edited by Tichtheid on Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tichtheid
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BTW, this is a genuine question, I have no idea on these things and I was thinking about this the other day whilst on the bus, but I see from a quick Google that the police tent was put up in Nicola Sturgeon's garden in July 2023.

How long does it take to get a conviction* from the initial seizure of items from a house etc?

Is it a "how long is a piece of string?" thing?


*or even go to court
Big D
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Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:35 pm BTW, this is a genuine question, I have no idea on these things and I was thinking about this the other day whilst on the bus, but I see from a quick Google that the police tent was put up in Nicola Sturgeon's garden in July 2023.

How long does it take to get a conviction* from the initial seizure of items from a house etc?

Is it a "how long is a piece of string?" thing?


*or even go to court
Blackmac will correct me if I'm wrong but financial cases can be long and complex. I would guess further complicated by the position the partner of the main suspect held.
Slick
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Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:30 pm
Slick wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:14 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:41 pm

I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.
Ahh, the two nodding dogs have come out to play

Let's be honest here, you were against the budget before it even started its first round of research, just because it was the SNP, just as I was with the Tories at Westminster.
No. As I've said a few times, I've voted for all the parties at some point, including the SNP. I just want what I consider to be best for Scotland. I think there was a real chance to do something different and impactful with this budget, but it's just more of the same from a very tired government.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
inactionman
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Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:35 pm BTW, this is a genuine question, I have no idea on these things and I was thinking about this the other day whilst on the bus, but I see from a quick Google that the police tent was put up in Nicola Sturgeon's garden in July 2023.

How long does it take to get a conviction* from the initial seizure of items from a house etc?

Is it a "how long is a piece of string?" thing?


*or even go to court
What was that tent all about? I'm still none the wiser.
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Tichtheid
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Slick wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 9:34 am
Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:30 pm
Slick wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:14 pm

Ahh, the two nodding dogs have come out to play

Let's be honest here, you were against the budget before it even started its first round of research, just because it was the SNP, just as I was with the Tories at Westminster.
No. As I've said a few times, I've voted for all the parties at some point, including the SNP. I just want what I consider to be best for Scotland. I think there was a real chance to do something different and impactful with this budget, but it's just more of the same from a very tired government.

See, I can't for the life of me understand this. I voted Green several times in a row because Caroline Lucas was a very good constituency MP as well as being in a party which had goals which I shared. I could easily have voted Labour in every election since my 18th birthday, again because of goals and aims.

There is nothing that would make me vote Tory, I just don't swallow the debunked "Trickle down" economics, less so the neoliberal approach and I fundamentally oppose the "devil take the hindmost" view which is at the centre of their ideology.
Every economy is struggling post-covid, but we are running whilst being hamstrung with Brexit - the most idiotic self-inflicted wound imaginable and there is only one party to blame for that. Maybe Austerity was worse even than Brexit.

If the worst that can be said about the SG budget is that they are targeting funds towards the least well off then I can't see that as a reason for condemnation.

I'm not yet sure who I'll be supporting at the next SG election, but I know it won't be the Tories.
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