The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

Confirmed they'll play England A on 27th June.

[Shaun]

Anyone fancy having a stab at guessing the team or squad for the "A" test

I'd imagine Bayliss, Ashman and Henderson will be in it. I've noticed a couple of comments on The Offside Line article mentioning Mak Wilson (who is he ) and Nathan McBeth but we'll just have to wait and see regarding these 2.

[Big D]

Anyone fancy having a stab at guessing the team or squad for the "A" test

I'd imagine Bayliss, Ashman and Henderson will be in it. I've noticed a couple of comments on The Offside Line article mentioning Mak Wilson (who is he ) and Nathan McBeth but we'll just have to wait and see regarding these 2.

Quins ex Scotland U20 prop.

[clydecloggie]

Confirmed they'll play England A on 27th June.

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

[KingBlairhorn]

It's actually a funny set of fixtures. It wouldn't surprise me if the team we put out for the 'A' fixture against England was considerably stronger than the 'full cap' team we put out against Romania, because England A will be considerably stronger than Romania.

I had a pop a couple of pages back, but missed a few players out that I had forgotten. My main thought was that any player who is very well established or who is 30 or over should have the summer off. I think the liklihood of what are basically three different teams is slim to none though in the current climate, so this is fantasy stuff.

Team for Georgia:
Schoeman, Turner, Rae
Cummings, Skinner
Richie, Fagerson, Crosbie
Horne, Hastings
Redpath, Hutchinson (oo-la-la)
Graham, Steyn
Kinghorn

Team for Romania:
Bhatti, Ashman, McCallum (Rodd if he'll come)
Henderson, Davidson
Graham (Gary), Thomson (Blade), Miller
Dobie, Thomson
Johnson, Bennett
McClean, Hoyland
Forbes

Team for England:
Kebble, Kerr, Rae
Craig, Toolis
Bayliss, Bradbury, Gordon
Steele, Jaco
Johnson, Jones
Graham, McGuigan
Kinghorn


Also involved across the squads: Hunter-Hill, McBurney, Glen Young, Stewart, Vellacott, Lang, Dean

[Big D]

Confirmed they'll play England A on 27th June.

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

I don't think the England A side is their official second team.

[Big D]

….
Team for Georgia:
Schoeman,

Schoeman isn't eligible until July apparently.

[KingBlairhorn]

….
Team for Georgia:
Schoeman,

Schoeman isn't eligible until July apparently.

If it's not a full cap game can we play him against England A?

[Jock42]

Confirmed they'll play England A on 27th June.

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

There wasn't much in the article

On the news of an A fixture, Scottish Rugby’s Director of High Performance, Jim Mallinder, said: "For me, the ability to play A team fixtures is a key area of player development and given the depth we are now able to draw on around the Scotland men's national team, it will provide an important opportunity for those pushing for international selection.

“After seeing such a positive number of Scotland players called up for the British & Irish Lions the summer series of matches opens up our options even further for player selection."

[Slick]

Confirmed they'll play England A on 27th June.

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

There wasn't much in the article

On the news of an A fixture, Scottish Rugby’s Director of High Performance, Jim Mallinder, said: "For me, the ability to play A team fixtures is a key area of player development and given the depth we are now able to draw on around the Scotland men's national team, it will provide an important opportunity for those pushing for international selection.

“After seeing such a positive number of Scotland players called up for the British & Irish Lions the summer series of matches opens up our options even further for player selection."

We have definately never had depth like this.

[Caley_Red]

It's actually a funny set of fixtures. It wouldn't surprise me if the team we put out for the 'A' fixture against England was considerably stronger than the 'full cap' team we put out against Romania, because England A will be considerably stronger than Romania.

I had a pop a couple of pages back, but missed a few players out that I had forgotten. My main thought was that any player who is very well established or who is 30 or over should have the summer off. I think the liklihood of what are basically three different teams is slim to none though in the current climate, so this is fantasy stuff.

Team for Georgia:
Schoeman, Turner, Rae
Cummings, Skinner
Richie, Fagerson, Crosbie
Horne, Hastings
Redpath, Hutchinson (oo-la-la)
Graham, Steyn
Kinghorn

Team for Romania:
Bhatti, Ashman, McCallum (Rodd if he'll come)
Henderson, Davidson
Graham (Gary), Thomson (Blade), Miller
Dobie, Thomson
Johnson, Bennett
McClean, Hoyland
Forbes

Team for England:
Kebble, Kerr, Rae
Craig, Toolis
Bayliss, Bradbury, Gordon
Steele, Jaco
Johnson, Jones
Graham, McGuigan
Kinghorn


Also involved across the squads: Hunter-Hill, McBurney, Glen Young, Stewart, Vellacott, Lang, Dean

Genuinely think I'd rather see Redpath-Hutch than whoever they end up picking in the centres for Lions test XV.

[KingBlairhorn]

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

There wasn't much in the article

On the news of an A fixture, Scottish Rugby’s Director of High Performance, Jim Mallinder, said: "For me, the ability to play A team fixtures is a key area of player development and given the depth we are now able to draw on around the Scotland men's national team, it will provide an important opportunity for those pushing for international selection.

“After seeing such a positive number of Scotland players called up for the British & Irish Lions the summer series of matches opens up our options even further for player selection."

We have definately never had depth like this.

Totally agree. We could put out a 3rd choice Scotland 15 now that I think is actually half decent. Back in the early 2000s we were struggling to put out a half-decent first choice 15. For me the depth chart would be something like below, playing fast and loose with some positions (especially in the locks):

LH: Sutherland; Kebble; Schoeman; Bhatti; Dell
Hooker: McInally; Brown; Turner; Cherry; Stewart
TH: Fagerson; Nel; Berghan; Rae; McCallum
Lock: J Gray; Gilchrist; Craig; Young; Davidson
Lock: Cummings; Skinner; B. Toolis; R. Gray; Cammy Henderson
Blindside: Richie; Bradbury; Gary Graham; Wilson; Harley
Openside: Watson; Crosbie; Tom Gordon; Darge; Boyle
Number 8: Fagerson; Haining; Thomson; Miller; Du Preez
Scrumhalf: Price; Horne; Dobie; Steele; Sam HC
Flyhalf: Russell; Hastings; Jaco VDW; Weir; Thomson
Wing: Duhan WdM; McGuigan; Steyn; Tagive; Blain
Inside Centre: Redpath; Johnson; Lang; Scott; George Taylor
Outside Centre: Harris; Taylor; Jones; Hutchinson; Grigg
Wing: Maitland; Darcy Graham; McClean; Hoyland; Farndale
FB: Hogg; Kinghorn; Forbes; Ollie Smith; ?

Guys like Alex Allan, Jake Kerr, Vellacott, Chamberlain and Bennett aren't even in the top 5 in their position. Charlie Shiel, who by all accounts is a decent young player is something like 9th on a depth chart. Compared to even 10 years ago that's insane. And that's before you consider that loads of those players can play in multiple positions - Richie is our best 6 and our second best 7 for instance.

[robmatic]

There wasn't much in the article

On the news of an A fixture, Scottish Rugby’s Director of High Performance, Jim Mallinder, said: "For me, the ability to play A team fixtures is a key area of player development and given the depth we are now able to draw on around the Scotland men's national team, it will provide an important opportunity for those pushing for international selection.

“After seeing such a positive number of Scotland players called up for the British & Irish Lions the summer series of matches opens up our options even further for player selection."

We have definately never had depth like this.

Totally agree. We could put out a 3rd choice Scotland 15 now that I think is actually half decent. Back in the early 2000s we were struggling to put out a half-decent first choice 15. For me the depth chart would be something like below, playing fast and loose with some positions (especially in the locks):

LH: Sutherland; Kebble; Schoeman; Bhatti; Dell
Hooker: McInally; Brown; Turner; Cherry; Stewart
TH: Fagerson; Nel; Berghan; Rae; McCallum
Lock: J Gray; Gilchrist; Craig; Young; Davidson
Lock: Cummings; Skinner; B. Toolis; R. Gray; Cammy Henderson
Blindside: Richie; Bradbury; Gary Graham; Wilson; Harley
Openside: Watson; Crosbie; Tom Gordon; Darge; Boyle
Number 8: Fagerson; Haining; Thomson; Miller; Du Preez
Scrumhalf: Price; Horne; Dobie; Steele; Sam HC
Flyhalf: Russell; Hastings; Jaco VDW; Weir; Thomson
Wing: Duhan WdM; McGuigan; Steyn; Tagive; Blain
Inside Centre: Redpath; Johnson; Lang; Scott; George Taylor
Outside Centre: Harris; Taylor; Jones; Hutchinson; Grigg
Wing: Maitland; Darcy Graham; McClean; Hoyland; Farndale
FB: Hogg; Kinghorn; Forbes; Ollie Smith; ?

Guys like Alex Allan, Jake Kerr, Vellacott, Chamberlain and Bennett aren't even in the top 5 in their position. Charlie Shiel, who by all accounts is a decent young player is something like 9th on a depth chart. Compared to even 10 years ago that's insane. And that's before you consider that loads of those players can play in multiple positions - Richie is our best 6 and our second best 7 for instance.

Something has definitely improved in the development pathways even with the limitation of only having two pro teams. When I started following Embra in the late 2000s, there were some gifted, excellent players but also plenty of players in the squad who wouldn't get anywhere near either of the current pro teams.

[Slick]

Confirmed they'll play England A on 27th June.

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

I don't think the England A side is their official second team.

The Rugby Football Union has stopped using the nickname “Saxons” for one of its senior England representative teams after it was deemed inappropriate, given the sport’s drive “to reflect the diversity in society”.

England’s second team will revert to the name England A when they play Scotland A in Leicester on June 27 after 15 years of being branded as the England Saxons.

[Big D]

Any news on whether the A team will count as the official second team, tying players to Scotland if they play in it?

I don't think the England A side is their official second team.

The Rugby Football Union has stopped using the nickname “Saxons” for one of its senior England representative teams after it was deemed inappropriate, given the sport’s drive “to reflect the diversity in society”.

England’s second team will revert to the name England A when they play Scotland A in Leicester on June 27 after 15 years of being branded as the England Saxons.

Ahh makes sense.

[Slick]

I don't think the England A side is their official second team.

The Rugby Football Union has stopped using the nickname “Saxons” for one of its senior England representative teams after it was deemed inappropriate, given the sport’s drive “to reflect the diversity in society”.

England’s second team will revert to the name England A when they play Scotland A in Leicester on June 27 after 15 years of being branded as the England Saxons.

Ahh makes sense.

Only just announced yesterday I think

[clydecloggie]

I don't think the England A side is their official second team.

The Rugby Football Union has stopped using the nickname “Saxons” for one of its senior England representative teams after it was deemed inappropriate, given the sport’s drive “to reflect the diversity in society”.

England’s second team will revert to the name England A when they play Scotland A in Leicester on June 27 after 15 years of being branded as the England Saxons.

Ahh makes sense.

And do we know what the rules are about tying players to a country if they play for the A team? I know U20 does not tie you to a country anymore, that was changed a few years back - from memory I think it's now A teams that do tie you, but I'm not sure.

[inactionman]

Ahh makes sense.

And do we know what the rules are about tying players to a country if they play for the A team? I know U20 does not tie you to a country anymore, that was changed a few years back - from memory I think it's now A teams that do tie you, but I'm not sure.

I understand that the A teams are the next senior for pretty much all major nations, so representing them would capture the player.

List of Next Senior here:
https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugb ... -Final.pdf

The guidelines for the reg which states the conditions for capture here:
https://www.world.rugby/organisation/go ... appendix-3

Note that the player has to participate, not just tour/sit in squad (Redpath toured with England previously but didn't make a XXIII)

eta: as an aside, appears that NZ don't have a A Team? I'm sure some wag will suggest their A-team is the Fiji/Samoa academy.

[KingBlairhorn]

We have definately never had depth like this.

[cut]

Something has definitely improved in the development pathways even with the limitation of only having two pro teams. When I started following Embra in the late 2000s, there were some gifted, excellent players but also plenty of players in the squad who wouldn't get anywhere near either of the current pro teams.

I'd agree. We are seeing very good players emerge every year now, there's a quite good wikipedia page where you can see the players from each U20 international year group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_ ... union_team

We are still not good at bringing through props (although there have been some excellent prospects in recent years), but there are excellent players in pretty much every position now.

[KingBlairhorn]

Ahh makes sense.

And do we know what the rules are about tying players to a country if they play for the A team? I know U20 does not tie you to a country anymore, that was changed a few years back - from memory I think it's now A teams that do tie you, but I'm not sure.

I understand that the A teams are the next senior for pretty much all major nations, so representing them would capture the player.

List of Next Senior here:
https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugb ... -Final.pdf

The guidelines for the reg which states the conditions for capture here:
https://www.world.rugby/organisation/go ... appendix-3

Note that the player has to participate, not just tour/sit in squad (Redpath toured with England previously but didn't make a XXIII)

eta: as an aside, appears that NZ don't have a A Team? I'm sure some wag will suggest their A-team is the Fiji/Samoa academy.

Does that not mean 'wives and girlfriends'?

Also, you forgot all their Tongans

[inactionman]

And do we know what the rules are about tying players to a country if they play for the A team? I know U20 does not tie you to a country anymore, that was changed a few years back - from memory I think it's now A teams that do tie you, but I'm not sure.

I understand that the A teams are the next senior for pretty much all major nations, so representing them would capture the player.

List of Next Senior here:
https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugb ... -Final.pdf

The guidelines for the reg which states the conditions for capture here:
https://www.world.rugby/organisation/go ... appendix-3

Note that the player has to participate, not just tour/sit in squad (Redpath toured with England previously but didn't make a XXIII)

eta: as an aside, appears that NZ don't have a A Team? I'm sure some wag will suggest their A-team is the Fiji/Samoa academy.

Does that not mean 'wives and girlfriends'?

Also, you forgot all their Tongans

Aye, them too (the Tongans, not the girlfriends)

[Biffer]

Ahh makes sense.

And do we know what the rules are about tying players to a country if they play for the A team? I know U20 does not tie you to a country anymore, that was changed a few years back - from memory I think it's now A teams that do tie you, but I'm not sure.

I understand that the A teams are the next senior for pretty much all major nations, so representing them would capture the player.

List of Next Senior here:
https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugb ... -Final.pdf

The guidelines for the reg which states the conditions for capture here:
https://www.world.rugby/organisation/go ... appendix-3

Note that the player has to participate, not just tour/sit in squad (Redpath toured with England previously but didn't make a XXIII)

eta: as an aside, appears that NZ don't have a A Team? I'm sure some wag will suggest their A-team is the Fiji/Samoa academy.

New Zealand used to list the New Zealand Maori as their capture side, didn't they?

[inactionman]

And do we know what the rules are about tying players to a country if they play for the A team? I know U20 does not tie you to a country anymore, that was changed a few years back - from memory I think it's now A teams that do tie you, but I'm not sure.

I understand that the A teams are the next senior for pretty much all major nations, so representing them would capture the player.

List of Next Senior here:
https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugb ... -Final.pdf

The guidelines for the reg which states the conditions for capture here:
https://www.world.rugby/organisation/go ... appendix-3

Note that the player has to participate, not just tour/sit in squad (Redpath toured with England previously but didn't make a XXIII)

eta: as an aside, appears that NZ don't have a A Team? I'm sure some wag will suggest their A-team is the Fiji/Samoa academy.

New Zealand used to list the New Zealand Maori as their capture side, didn't they?

Could see that being a can of worms, as the NZ Maori require players to have some whakapapa - only allowing players of certain ancestry to play for a national selective team seems a bit iffy (by which I mean if it's formally a pathway to the first team, as most A Teams would be, it becomes a bit questionable)

[Yr Alban]

[cut]

Something has definitely improved in the development pathways even with the limitation of only having two pro teams. When I started following Embra in the late 2000s, there were some gifted, excellent players but also plenty of players in the squad who wouldn't get anywhere near either of the current pro teams.

I'd agree. We are seeing very good players emerge every year now, there's a quite good wikipedia page where you can see the players from each U20 international year group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_ ... union_team

We are still not good at bringing through props (although there have been some excellent prospects in recent years), but there are excellent players in pretty much every position now.

Just had a look at that link. Teddy Leatherbarrow sounds like a character in Harry Potter.

[KingBlairhorn]

I haven't been down there myself in a long time to see but at least from the pictures the new Accies stand looks rather lovely to me:

https://michaellaird.co.uk/projects/edi ... velopment/

It kind of feels like a 'this is what you could have had' moment for Edinburgh, although of course it is a (permanent) single stand heavily subsidised by the retail concessions so not directly comparable.

[Slick]

I haven't been down there myself in a long time to see but at least from the pictures the new Accies stand looks rather lovely to me:

https://michaellaird.co.uk/projects/edi ... velopment/

It kind of feels like a 'this is what you could have had' moment for Edinburgh, although of course it is a (permanent) single stand heavily subsidised by the retail concessions so not directly comparable.

It’s really well done actually. When it first started going up it looked enormous and out of place but the finished product is very good (unless you live on the first floor of the flats opposite.

Apparently there is a bit of a hoohaa about the pitch turning round the other way with it being the pitch the first international was played on.

The big shame of course is that they are not in the Super 6 and the league as they knew it has gone

[dkm57]

That stand is just stunning.

[Tichtheid]

I haven't been down there myself in a long time to see but at least from the pictures the new Accies stand looks rather lovely to me:

https://michaellaird.co.uk/projects/edi ... velopment/

It kind of feels like a 'this is what you could have had' moment for Edinburgh, although of course it is a (permanent) single stand heavily subsidised by the retail concessions so not directly comparable.

It’s really well done actually. When it first started going up it looked enormous and out of place but the finished product is very good (unless you live on the first floor of the flats opposite.

Apparently there is a bit of a hoohaa about the pitch turning round the other way with it being the pitch the first international was played on.

The big shame of course is that they are not in the Super 6 and the league as they knew it has gone

As you'll know that pitch of the first international game was a training/lower teams pitch for a long time. It had wooden posts on it when I first joined, until one night at training I ran into one of the posts and knocked it down.

I got bombarded with all the "prop" jokes of course, but the post was rotten beneath the surface.

The stand looks good, my first flat in Edinburgh as a student was in Comely Bank Place, just across the road from the stand there

[clydecloggie]

I haven't been down there myself in a long time to see but at least from the pictures the new Accies stand looks rather lovely to me:

https://michaellaird.co.uk/projects/edi ... velopment/

It kind of feels like a 'this is what you could have had' moment for Edinburgh, although of course it is a (permanent) single stand heavily subsidised by the retail concessions so not directly comparable.

It’s really well done actually. When it first started going up it looked enormous and out of place but the finished product is very good (unless you live on the first floor of the flats opposite.

Apparently there is a bit of a hoohaa about the pitch turning round the other way with it being the pitch the first international was played on.

The big shame of course is that they are not in the Super 6 and the league as they knew it has gone

As you'll know that pitch of the first international game was a training/lower teams pitch for a long time. It had wooden posts on it when I first joined, until one night at training I ran into one of the posts and knocked it down.

I got bombarded with all the "prop" jokes of course, but the post was rotten beneath the surface.

The stand looks good, my first flat in Edinburgh as a student was in Comely Bank Place, just across the road from the stand there

You knocked down one of the posts that was in use for the very first international match? Mate, that makes you a bona fide legend. And may I remind you legends don't need much in the way of facts?

[Slick]

And legends but the first round

[westport]

Japan are visiting for the third game of the autumn series on 20 November

[Slick]

Japan are visiting for the third game of the autumn series on 20 November

Oh, that's suddenly made it a bit more interesting!

[Yr Alban]

Japan are visiting for the third game of the autumn series on 20 November

Oh, that's suddenly made it a bit more interesting!

It has indeed.

I am frustrated that we missed out on our first opportunity in forever to tour NZ due to Covid, and we don’t have a game against them in the autumn either. We have no luck with this. We were pretty much the only country who didn’t play SA when they were having their hopeless phase.

[Begbie]

Anyone remember Robin Hislop? He's signed for Wasps next season. Good move for him at 29, might be a real late bloomer.

[Jock42]

Anyone remember Robin Hislop? He's signed for Wasps next season. Good move for him at 29, might be a real late bloomer.

Yeah i seen that too. Rotherham Capt as well. Good for him.

[KingBlairhorn]

Anyone remember Robin Hislop? He's signed for Wasps next season. Good move for him at 29, might be a real late bloomer.

Yeah i seen that too. Rotherham Capt as well. Good for him.

Shame he isn't a tighthead or he'd have a chance to be in and around the international side (with Sutherland, Kebble, Schoeman, Bhatti already ahead of him and potentially Rodd incoming I would say unfortunately loosehead berths are going to be hard to come by).

I hope we've learnt our lesson with Cherry - just because a career takes some time to get going doesn't mean the player can't add real value. Bomber has been one of the top players in the Championship for some time, he very much deserves his chance at the big time.

[Yr Alban]

Anyone remember Robin Hislop? He's signed for Wasps next season. Good move for him at 29, might be a real late bloomer.

Yeah i seen that too. Rotherham Capt as well. Good for him.

Shame he isn't a tighthead or he'd have a chance to be in and around the international side (with Sutherland, Kebble, Schoeman, Bhatti already ahead of him and potentially Rodd incoming I would say unfortunately loosehead berths are going to be hard to come by).

I hope we've learnt our lesson with Cherry - just because a career takes some time to get going doesn't mean the player can't add real value. Bomber has been one of the top players in the Championship for some time, he very much deserves his chance at the big time.

Strange things have happened. Darryl Marfo (3 caps, 2 wins and a heartbreakingly close loss to NZ) says so.

[robmatic]

Anyone remember Robin Hislop? He's signed for Wasps next season. Good move for him at 29, might be a real late bloomer.

Yeah i seen that too. Rotherham Capt as well. Good for him.

Shame he isn't a tighthead or he'd have a chance to be in and around the international side (with Sutherland, Kebble, Schoeman, Bhatti already ahead of him and potentially Rodd incoming I would say unfortunately loosehead berths are going to be hard to come by).

I hope we've learnt our lesson with Cherry - just because a career takes some time to get going doesn't mean the player can't add real value. Bomber has been one of the top players in the Championship for some time, he very much deserves his chance at the big time.

Shows some of the challenges around developing props in Scotland as well. Folk give Edinburgh and Glasgow a kicking for not playing their young front rows but it's taken Hislop a few seasons of playing at a decent standard in the Championship to finally make it.

[Dogbert]

Turner having a really cracking game

[Dogbert]

As is Rory Darge