Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:00 pm
The official government account released some pretty horrific images
https://twitter.com/israel?s=21
https://twitter.com/israel?s=21
Good god.Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:00 pm The official government account released some pretty horrific images
https://twitter.com/israel?s=21
We're one of the few western European countries that wasn't a colonial/regional power so have a different outlook to countries that have a natural affinity for taking stuff that didn't belong to them. Finns would be quite similar.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:59 pmI don't know him well to be honest and can't recall seeing him on the telly. See he was the UK ambassador so can see why you have. Have read bits of his stuff over the years and he doesn't say anything that I can recall is particularly controversial. Always seems a bit surprised our relationship is so bad and tries to connect it to the big stuff like pre Vatican 2 and all that. Definitely connected but I think its simpler than that. The whole Anti apartheid was huge in Ireland and crossed all classes. Working class women in supermarkets organizing boycotts onto middle class wankers like me reading the Irish Times and harrumphing at whatever other atrocity Robert Fisk or Lara Marlowe were telling us the Israelis were at. You cannot underestimate how powerful those two became in forming ideas among the urban middle class and the Anti apartheid movement just moved onto Palestine. Huge infrastructure for that was already there in colleges and amongst all classes and political parties . It was a slam dunk
A few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
Oh and btw I would certainly call HAMAS terrorists and have no issue if their leadership responsible for infanticide and attacks and civilians were assassinated. The same goes for anyone who has responsibility for such atrocities.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pmA few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
The people of Judea disagree.boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:35 amThe land is called Palestine, it belongs to the Palestinians. Quite easy you doofus.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:30 am Can we talk nuts and bolts.
Why are the Left on here and everywhere so utterly convinced that the land belongs to the "Palestinians"
I'd really like to know their understanding of the ownership and what facts they have to back up such strongly held beliefs.
I am joking, the wording alone is part of the problem.
HIs book, the Strange death of Europe, so far, couldn't be any more accurate.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pmA few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
No I wasn't thinking of that demographic at all.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:03 pmHIs book, the Strange death of Europe, so far, couldn't be any more accurate.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pmA few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
Do you mean the demograph that doesn't like to see people celebrating Hamas on the streets of the UK and Schools having to close for safety reasons? That demograph?
No, I didn't think you would be.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:05 pmNo I wasn't thinking of that demographic at all.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:03 pmHIs book, the Strange death of Europe, so far, couldn't be any more accurate.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pm
A few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
Do you mean the demograph that doesn't like to see people celebrating Hamas on the streets of the UK and Schools having to close for safety reasons? That demograph?
Not going to use that example because they "stole" it following a war that they did not instigate.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:25 amIf you steal stuff from a shop and under pressure, give a portion of it back while keeping the rest + promising not to take anymore and reneging on that, is everybody all square then?Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:39 amExcept, here they actually handed land back!! I’m m not sure how you missed that part.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:26 am
It's far too late now but Israel have never made a real concession. And stopping taking land that doesn't belong to you isn't a concession.
Now here we are, despite that!
Israel also have the right to exist, which is not what Hamas think, demand.
Indeed I was thinking about people who watch Talk TV.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:07 pmNo, I didn't think you would be.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:05 pmNo I wasn't thinking of that demographic at all.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:03 pm
HIs book, the Strange death of Europe, so far, couldn't be any more accurate.
Do you mean the demograph that doesn't like to see people celebrating Hamas on the streets of the UK and Schools having to close for safety reasons? That demograph?
You and others keep saying that, like it's a get out clause, all the same while ignoring how Hamas and some of the people of Gaza are entirely entwined.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:58 pmOh and btw I would certainly call HAMAS terrorists and have no issue if their leadership responsible for infanticide and attacks and civilians were assassinated. The same goes for anyone who has responsibility for such atrocities.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pmA few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
A get out clause?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:14 pmYou and others keep saying that, like it's a get out clause, all the same while ignoring how Hamas and some of the people of Gaza are entirely entwined.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:58 pmOh and btw I would certainly call HAMAS terrorists and have no issue if their leadership responsible for infanticide and attacks and civilians were assassinated. The same goes for anyone who has responsibility for such atrocities.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pm
A few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
What won't I denounce Mr mind reader?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:27 pm You don't denounce it fully, you probably can't denounce it fully. You will only ever blame Hamas.
I honestly can't be bothered.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:38 pmWhat won't I denounce Mr mind reader?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:27 pm You don't denounce it fully, you probably can't denounce it fully. You will only ever blame Hamas.
C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:38 pmWhat won't I denounce Mr mind reader?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:27 pm You don't denounce it fully, you probably can't denounce it fully. You will only ever blame Hamas.
The Palestinians exist for one purpose.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pmI honestly can't be bothered.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:38 pmWhat won't I denounce Mr mind reader?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:27 pm You don't denounce it fully, you probably can't denounce it fully. You will only ever blame Hamas.
The Palestinians exist for one purpose only, to be martyrs for the Arab world. It's fucking sick.
FFS, I'm trying to get him to denounce a large portion of the Palestinians. He steadfastly refuses too. We've talked about it on previously on this thread.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pmC69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:38 pmWhat won't I denounce Mr mind reader?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:27 pm You don't denounce it fully, you probably can't denounce it fully. You will only ever blame Hamas.
He's trying to get you to denounce an entire religion, he's even quoting the Enoch Powel du jour, that racist Murray.
The guy from Gwent is good, I'll give him that, he elicits responses designed to cause trouble, he is a good troll, he knows how to get people to respond to his incendiary posts. I'll qualify that by saying no racist is good and Gwent is a racist for sure.
It's up to the readers to respond or ignore.
I disagree he is not good at all. He has his opinions and he is entitled to his opinions.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pmC69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:38 pmWhat won't I denounce Mr mind reader?David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:27 pm You don't denounce it fully, you probably can't denounce it fully. You will only ever blame Hamas.
He's trying to get you to denounce an entire religion, he's even quoting the Enoch Powel du jour, that racist Murray.
The guy from Gwent is good, I'll give him that, he elicits responses designed to cause trouble, he is a good troll, he knows how to get people to respond to his incendiary posts. I'll qualify that by saying no racist is good and Gwent is a racist for sure.
It's up to the readers to respond or ignore.
There are literally thousands of hours of videos available showing the radicalisation of Palestinian kids and infants. It's not made up, it's not propaganda, it's not a "right wing conspiracy" it's a sick fact.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:49 pmThe Palestinians exist for one purpose.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pmI honestly can't be bothered.
The Palestinians exist for one purpose only, to be martyrs for the Arab world. It's fucking sick.
Read your post, and tell me the infants and children believe that.
C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:51 pmI disagree he is not good at all. He has his opinions and he is entitled to his opinions.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pm
He's trying to get you to denounce an entire religion, he's even quoting the Enoch Powel du jour, that racist Murray.
The guy from Gwent is good, I'll give him that, he elicits responses designed to cause trouble, he is a good troll, he knows how to get people to respond to his incendiary posts. I'll qualify that by saying no racist is good and Gwent is a racist for sure.
It's up to the readers to respond or ignore.
I may not agree but I will defend his right to have these idiosyncratic musings.
I have no issue in denouncing anyone in Palestine that supports HAMAS or thinks their barbarism is justifiedDavid in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:50 pmFFS, I'm trying to get him to denounce a large portion of the Palestinians. He steadfastly refuses too. We've talked about it on previously on this thread.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pm
He's trying to get you to denounce an entire religion, he's even quoting the Enoch Powel du jour, that racist Murray.
The guy from Gwent is good, I'll give him that, he elicits responses designed to cause trouble, he is a good troll, he knows how to get people to respond to his incendiary posts. I'll qualify that by saying no racist is good and Gwent is a racist for sure.
It's up to the readers to respond or ignore.
He won't though.
Care to give an example with context or would you just like to fuck off now?Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:54 pmC69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:51 pmI disagree he is not good at all. He has his opinions and he is entitled to his opinions.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pm
He's trying to get you to denounce an entire religion, he's even quoting the Enoch Powel du jour, that racist Murray.
The guy from Gwent is good, I'll give him that, he elicits responses designed to cause trouble, he is a good troll, he knows how to get people to respond to his incendiary posts. I'll qualify that by saying no racist is good and Gwent is a racist for sure.
It's up to the readers to respond or ignore.
I may not agree but I will defend his right to have these idiosyncratic musings.
Oh I agree he is allowed to spout whatever shite, I just see people taking easy bait, he plays with posters way too easily.
Yep, fully genuine apology from me. Sorry.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:55 pmI have no issue in denouncing anyone in Palestine that supports HAMAS or thinks their barbarism is justifiedDavid in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:50 pmFFS, I'm trying to get him to denounce a large portion of the Palestinians. He steadfastly refuses too. We've talked about it on previously on this thread.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pm
He's trying to get you to denounce an entire religion, he's even quoting the Enoch Powel du jour, that racist Murray.
The guy from Gwent is good, I'll give him that, he elicits responses designed to cause trouble, he is a good troll, he knows how to get people to respond to his incendiary posts. I'll qualify that by saying no racist is good and Gwent is a racist for sure.
It's up to the readers to respond or ignore.
He won't though.
Or any Palestinian that does not think Israel has a right to exist.
Now Dave apologise when you read this and take time to reflect and realise you have been utterly wrong.
Totally and utterly spouting lies about a poster.
Cheers
You are such a cunt.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:14 pmYou and others keep saying that, like it's a get out clause, all the same while ignoring how Hamas and some of the people of Gaza are entirely entwined.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:58 pmOh and btw I would certainly call HAMAS terrorists and have no issue if their leadership responsible for infanticide and attacks and civilians were assassinated. The same goes for anyone who has responsibility for such atrocities.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:52 pm
A few but on the whole he came across as insincere and spouted tropes and stereotypes and his vision of what the left feel etc the section of you are not allowed was particularly weak.
He played to a pliant audience, there was little critical thinking or real analysis.
It was tubthumping for a demographic.
What's factually incorrect about that statement?Simian wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:56 pmYou are such a cunt.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:14 pmYou and others keep saying that, like it's a get out clause, all the same while ignoring how Hamas and some of the people of Gaza are entirely entwined.
Dai, if they are treated like shit for their whole lives, why are you surprised that they turn out to be shit in many cases? They would be kinda special not to.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:53 pmThere are literally thousands of hours of videos available showing the radicalisation of Palestinian kids and infants. It's not made up, it's not propaganda, it's not a "right wing conspiracy" it's a sick fact.C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:49 pmThe Palestinians exist for one purpose.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pm
I honestly can't be bothered.
The Palestinians exist for one purpose only, to be martyrs for the Arab world. It's fucking sick.
Read your post, and tell me the infants and children believe that.
People's Front of Judea or Judean People's Front?Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:02 pmThe people of Judea disagree.boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:35 amThe land is called Palestine, it belongs to the Palestinians. Quite easy you doofus.David in Gwent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:30 am Can we talk nuts and bolts.
Why are the Left on here and everywhere so utterly convinced that the land belongs to the "Palestinians"
I'd really like to know their understanding of the ownership and what facts they have to back up such strongly held beliefs.
I am joking, the wording alone is part of the problem.
Popular Front I think. They're just splittersTorquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:21 amPeople's Front of Judea or Judean People's Front?Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:02 pmThe people of Judea disagree.boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:35 am
The land is called Palestine, it belongs to the Palestinians. Quite easy you doofus.
I am joking, the wording alone is part of the problem.
As opposed to a child-like need to create strawmans?EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:30 pmSo with all your reading on this matter over the years you have come to the conclusion that Arabs and more specifically a group of then called Palestinians owned the Levant and the area called Palestine and the Jews took it on them. Are you a fucking third year arts studen or a Trot local councillor?Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:50 pmWe're one of the few western European countries that wasn't a colonial/regional power so have a different outlook to countries that have a natural affinity for taking stuff that didn't belong to them. Finns would be quite similar.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:59 pm
I don't know him well to be honest and can't recall seeing him on the telly. See he was the UK ambassador so can see why you have. Have read bits of his stuff over the years and he doesn't say anything that I can recall is particularly controversial. Always seems a bit surprised our relationship is so bad and tries to connect it to the big stuff like pre Vatican 2 and all that. Definitely connected but I think its simpler than that. The whole Anti apartheid was huge in Ireland and crossed all classes. Working class women in supermarkets organizing boycotts onto middle class wankers like me reading the Irish Times and harrumphing at whatever other atrocity Robert Fisk or Lara Marlowe were telling us the Israelis were at. You cannot underestimate how powerful those two became in forming ideas among the urban middle class and the Anti apartheid movement just moved onto Palestine. Huge infrastructure for that was already there in colleges and amongst all classes and political parties . It was a slam dunk
Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:02 am Didn't know about this. Further cements how much of a group of cunts Hamas are: https://www.timesofisrael.com/protests- ... y-persist/
It's unlikely this latest set of aggressions helps this cause, but there's a slim chance it might harden their determination.
I guess if Israel can actually take out Hamas, there could be enough of an opening. Don't see it happening though. That would really need to be Israel's end game here, take out the government, and hold elections, where anyone with a hamas affiliation is not allowed to run.
Various anti-Hamas Palestinian political forces condemned the terror group’s response to the spontaneous uprising.
The Palestinian Democratic Union (FIDA) and the Socialist Palestinian People’s Party, two smaller parties affiliated with the PLO, issued statements denouncing the use of force by Hamas to disperse the protesters, emphasizing the right of citizens to peaceful demonstration, and urging Hamas to start tackling Gaza’s numerous problems.
Salim al-Bardeni, secretary general of the Palestinian Arab Front, another nationalist faction affiliated with the PLO, did not mince words. In an interview with Voice of Palestine radio station, he said: “Hamas sucks the blood of our people in the Gaza Strip, through its rule over it and the transfer of its money abroad.
“Hamas, since its coup against the legitimate ruler [the PA], has not made any improvement to the infrastructure of the Gaza Strip, and has not been able to provide the basic services that our people are deprived of, such as electricity,” al-Bardeni added.
“The uprising of the people of Gaza against Hamas is not surprising even for those who voted for them in the 2006 elections,” he said, referencing the last elections held in the Palestinian territories, “because Hamas eventually reneged on all their slogans.”