Climate Change - Why don't we care?

[epwc]

The lady who has the place in Valencia was in (genuine) distress:

Her "I just don't know how we can help"

Me "Well you could take less and longer trips"

Her "But I have to get back for work" She works two days a a week

Me "Everyone has choices to make, it's up to you, if you really care then that's something you can do"

Her "But you've been to China twice and Bangladesh this year"

Me "Yes, that's why when my wife came back from Valencia and said "You'd love it there, I'm going to take you" I said no, I've done too much flying already. There is so much in the world I want to see but I understand how much damage I'm doing if I just carry on regardless"

Her "What else could I do?

Me "There are loads of things you can do, support environmental charities, plant a tree, eat less meat"

Her "Well you've got the land to plant trees, and you've got the money" Her husband was quite high up at DB before getting poached by Lloyds for double what Deutsche were paying him He will have netted some 6 figure bonuses in the past.

Me "Yes, I have got the land, and I've chosen to spend £100ks since I've been here to plant and maintain trees and hedges, instead of buying Lamborghinis and G Wagens, that's what I mean about choices"

Her "But it's so dreadful isn't it?"

Me "Yes, but not half as terrible as the floods in Balochistan, just as a single example"

Anyway it kind of petered out at that point. She does a 2 day a week job, it's a nothing job which they don't need financially, but she flies back every week to do that job.

I kind of lost interest, lots of the people were talking about the same issues and I told them all the same stuff. It made absolutely fuck all difference cos a little while later they were arranging skiing holidays for next year

What I should have said was:

"You're here, but your house is lit up inside and out, turn the fucking lights off? You burn candles by the bucketload, if we come round there'll be at least 10 candles alight in different rooms, why? Just buy less shit. Your Aga which isn't connected to your hot water is on all the time meaning you need aircon in the summer, rip the fucker out and install a sensible cooking appliance"

But I chickened out as her mum fell over earlier in the week and has fractured several vertebrae.

To be fair I could have said that to pretty much any of them, they're all 50 somethings and looking for stuff to do so end up doing city breaks every other weekend, skiing, etc....

We are doomed, I have no idea what it'll take to make people understand that they can make a difference and that now is the time to make that difference.

[Sandstorm]

To be fair I could have said that to pretty much any of them, they're all 50 somethings and looking for stuff to do so end up doing city breaks every other weekend, skiing, etc....

We are doomed, I have no idea what it'll take to make people understand that they can make a difference and that now is the time to make that difference.

TBF when you're 50 and have some spare cash, you think that you'd like to keep travelling and having some fun now. When you're 70 and find travelling by air tough, then you're happier to sit home and reduce your carbon output.....live now because you might be dead sooner than you think! #sorry_future_generations

[epwc]

#sorry_future_generations

That is basically it. I think I have a bigger list of places that I'd like to see than pretty much anyone I know but I will not be going to most of them. It makes no sense.

[epwc]

But they're not bad people, some of them actually cried about Valencia cos they've all been there you know....

[Sandstorm]

But they're not bad people, some of them actually cried about Valencia cos they've all been there you know....

[Rhubarb & Custard]

There is anyone who cares about the environment would seriously curtail their internet use and all the demands that places on servers, power generation and whatnot. It's not like cutting back on flying/driving/children/pets are the only things one can do

[Guy Smiley]

But they're not bad people, some of them actually cried about Valencia cos they've all been there you know....

Some of my best friends are gay...

[epwc]

But they're not bad people, some of them actually cried about Valencia cos they've all been there you know....

Some of my best friends are gay...

Some of mine are ginger

[epwc]

There is anyone who cares about the environment would seriously curtail their internet use and all the demands that places on servers, power generation and whatnot. It's not like cutting back on flying/driving/children/pets are the only things one can do

There are literally millions of things we can all do, some say fuck it and do nothing, others do something

[tabascoboy]

Sort of on topic wrt Green Energy, something I'd certainly never considered

Sweden government today decided to reject the applications of 13 offshore wind farms in the Baltic Sea, while granting one (Poseidon) on the Swedish west coast. The reaction time in the event of a missile attack could go from 2 minutes to 60 seconds with wind farms in the way. (1/4)

With war in close vicinity, Sweden finds itself in a serious security situation. Defence interests must carry significant weight when these kinds of decisions are made. We also have a special responsibility within NATO for security in the Baltic Sea. (2/4)

It is especially important for the Swedish Armed Forces to be able to operate at full capability in those areas of the Baltic Sea where applications now have been rejected. The proximity to the heavily militarized Kaliningrad area is also important in this context. (3/4)

The wind farms could also lead to reduced intelligence-gathering capabilities & disrupt sensors used to detect submarines. Based on the assessment of the Armed forces, building offshore wind farms in the Baltic Sea would have unacceptable consequences for Swedish security. (4/4)

[inactionman]

Climate activists in Scotland have carried out a series of actions against SUV cars, saying they are acting in solidarity with the victims of the Valencia floods.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... od-victims

If SUVs were a country they’d be the 5th biggest world polluter. There were over 360m SUVs on world roads in 2023, producing 1bn tonnes of CO2, up 10% on 2022. As a result, global oil consumption rose by 600,000 barrels/day, more than a quarter of total oil demand growth

Are those numbers correct?

[epwc]

It wouldn't surprise me. Our office is next door to a gym, one of their regular punters drives a fucking Hummer!

[petej]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

[epwc]

That would be brilliant, as well as a frequent flyer tax

[weegie01]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

[petej]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Shouldn't actually be needed as cost more to buy, cost more to run, more parts to go wrong. A superb piece of marketing. If not a luxury tax than a new definition slow ugly vehicles. Or some horrific acronym spelling something like PURV.

[Sandstorm]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Doesn’t matter how or where you choose to use an SUV, it still pollutes the same.

[Niegs]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

Like all those politicians and influential people who benefit from the housing situation, there's no way they'd vote against their self-interests.

[Guy Smiley]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Doesn’t matter how or where you choose to use an SUV, it still pollutes the same.

No offence to Weegie here but that argument is replicated pretty much everywhere. In NZ, the Ford Ranger light truck is the highest selling vehicle on the market. Govt offer tax incentives for 'business vehicles' so you just find a loophole that suits and run your oversized and unnecessary utility vehicle in the cities and towns because...

machismo.

The same sort of thing applies in Australia with the added effect of a flourishing import and conversion industry bringing in supersized US trucks.

That sort of thinking needs to be disincentivised and a rigorous tax regime is probably the easiest way to do it. Either that or punitive registration costs. There will be a small minority of primary producers who genuinely need light truck style vehicles and a mechanism could be found to reduce the penalty for those users somehow... but the current market with its heavy preference worldwide for SUV type vehicles shows us the balance is way out of whack. The arument for some sort of indemnity somehow holds sway despite applying to a small minority.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

There is anyone who cares about the environment would seriously curtail their internet use and all the demands that places on servers, power generation and whatnot. It's not like cutting back on flying/driving/children/pets are the only things one can do

There are literally millions of things we can all do, some say fuck it and do nothing, others do something

I'm not suggesting posting on the internet is nothing, it's an active contribution to the problem

[Kiwias]

A world-renowned specialist on climate change has solved the mystery of why there are more hurricanes every year. The answer is almost certainly not what you expect.

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1853516636403212543

[robmatic]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Even then there is a massive difference between what you need if you live in a rural area and some of these suburban monstrosities. My Dad's old Toyota Hilux, which could pull a trailer full of cattle, was about half the size of these shiny American-style pickups that you see.

[dpedin]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Even then there is a massive difference between what you need if you live in a rural area and some of these suburban monstrosities. My Dad's old Toyota Hilux, which could pull a trailer full of cattle, was about half the size of these shiny American-style pickups that you see.

My mates wife just got a Porsche Taycan Turismo, best part of £90k. They live in deepest Edinburgh suburbia, kids left home but have a wee dog. Mostly used for trips to shops and odd trip in Scotland but not too far as they are worried about charging. He justifies it by saying he charges it from his solar panels so it's green and he has no fuel costs. However it is huge and weighs about 2.5 tons. His wife struggles to park it. I know it is their money so their choice but ...

[epwc]

Yes, mental. A friend has just bought an Audi Etron GT, 530 bhp, 0-60 4.0 secs. His daily drive is 4 miles to work and back. His wife has a Taycan, she drops the kids to school around 2 miles ish, she drives to Doncaster 3 or 4 times a year to see her mum.

We deserve to be fucked.

[weegie01]

Luxury tax on SUVs and Chelsea tractors would be welcome plus compulsory smoking like statement on SUV car adverts.

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Even then there is a massive difference between what you need if you live in a rural area and some of these suburban monstrosities. My Dad's old Toyota Hilux, which could pull a trailer full of cattle, was about half the size of these shiny American-style pickups that you see.

Everything has got ridiculousy big. I have a Disco 4, and would never entertain a Disco 5 as it just absurdly big (apart from also being ugly as sin). I recently saw a old BMW 7 series parked beside a new 5 Series and the new 5 Series was bigger (I am not sure what the age difference was, but it was not that big).

I get the irritation with people in cities buying vehicles who will never use most of their capabilites when thse capabilities come with a cost to the environment. But for some people they are actually work tools with no reasonable alternative, and for them the fact they pollute more can't currently be avoided.

[Sandstorm]

My Dad's old Toyota Hilux, which could pull a trailer full of cattle, was about half the size of these shiny American-style pickups that you see.

The problem is safety standards have moved on since the 1980s. Crash in that old Hilux (probably into a BMW X5 these days) and only the occupants of the newer vehicle are walking away.

If you want to move 5 people and 3/4 of a tonne of stuff SAFELY as per crash legislation, then you need a longer, wider, heavier chassis under your Double-Cab

[inactionman]

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Even then there is a massive difference between what you need if you live in a rural area and some of these suburban monstrosities. My Dad's old Toyota Hilux, which could pull a trailer full of cattle, was about half the size of these shiny American-style pickups that you see.

Everything has got ridiculousy big. I have a Disco 4, and would never entertain a Disco 5 as it just absurdly big (apart from also being ugly as sin). I recently saw a old BMW 7 series parked beside a new 5 Series and the new 5 Series was bigger (I am not sure what the age difference was, but it was not that big).

I get the irritation with people in cities buying vehicles who will never use most of their capabilites when thse capabilities come with a cost to the environment. But for some people they are actually work tools with no reasonable alternative, and for them the fact they pollute more can't currently be avoided.

I worked for Jaguar Land Rover on a contract and there were many engineers who really didn't like the Range Rovers that they made, as they knew they were almost entirely for show (even though they retain huge capability). They all really liked the new Defender and the Discovery - although the new Defender does seem to have slotted into the Range Rover chelsea tractor category.

I would highlight that many people have a sporadic need for larger cars and so end up with something oversized for commute. I have an ex-colleague in the west country who drives a camper to work.

In terms of SUVs being polluting, I've got a discovery sport I'm thinking about trading in, and when I went on my Land Rover off-road sesion I tried one of the new Disco Sport petrol plug in hybrids. I'm not sure how useful it would prove for us, as we have a Renault zoe for town and short runs, but it's still got to be better than a diesel engine.

[epwc]

I guess the question is why do you need something like the disco sport?

[Sandstorm]

I guess the question is why do you need something like the disco sport?

Quite.

Although why does he feel he needs to trade in his existing car if only for occasional use & seems to run fine? The output in building his new (any fuel) Disco will far out way another decade of Dirty Diesel Driving in his existing SUV.

[epwc]

Although why does he feel he needs to trade in his existing car if only for occasional use & seems to run fine? The output in building his new (any fuel) Disco will far out way another decade of Dirty Diesel Driving in his existing SUV.

That too

[epwc]

When we moved "out to the country" I had an Audi A4 TDi Quattro, which I guess I used in snowy conditions several times over the 10 years I had it, but in the end I just decided that if road conditions were that bad then I didn't need to go out. Been 2 wheel drive since 2015, not missed it.

[robmatic]

My Dad's old Toyota Hilux, which could pull a trailer full of cattle, was about half the size of these shiny American-style pickups that you see.

The problem is safety standards have moved on since the 1980s. Crash in that old Hilux (probably into a BMW X5 these days) and only the occupants of the newer vehicle are walking away.

If you want to move 5 people and 3/4 of a tonne of stuff SAFELY as per crash legislation, then you need a longer, wider, heavier chassis under your Double-Cab

It turns into a bit of an arms race as well. We have a Hyundai i20, which is perfectly fine and functional for our little family, but it feels like if we were to have any sort of bump the odds are that it will be into a vehicle which is higher and heavier than ours.

[inactionman]

I guess the question is why do you need something like the disco sport?

Ultimately, long hauls in bad weather down south - when we were losing my mum I had to go at the drop of a hat, and through Borders and bits of Norfolk in snow and high winds could be interesting. When my car was in for MOT I drove down in my wife's tiny hatchback which wasn't a very pleasant experience.

We've since lost my mum but my dad is not getting any younger.

I was torn between a Volvo estate or the Disco Sport, at the time I went with the Disco as there were no approved used Volvos of equivalent price. The volvo 4x4 is still an interesting option.

The more resilient solution is not to live at the opposite end of the country to my ageing parents but life has a habit of getting in the way.

We do use the car for out of season trips to the highlands, but that's more just because we can. I'd not buy a 4x4 specifically for it.

[inactionman]

I guess the question is why do you need something like the disco sport?

Quite.

Although why does he feel he needs to trade in his existing car if only for occasional use & seems to run fine? The output in building his new (any fuel) Disco will far out way another decade of Dirty Diesel Driving in his existing SUV.

You can ask me, you know

[Sandstorm]

It turns into a bit of an arms race as well. We have a Hyundai i20, which is perfectly fine and functional for our little family, but it feels like if we were to have any sort of bump the odds are that it will be into a vehicle which is higher and heavier than ours.

That's true too

[weegie01]

As long as those of us who live in rural areas and actually use them for what they were designed for are exempt. It should also be impossible to buy one unless you own at least one reasonably large trailer.

Doesn’t matter how or where you choose to use an SUV, it still pollutes the same.

No offence to Weegie here but that argument is replicated pretty much everywhere. In NZ, the Ford Ranger light truck is the highest selling vehicle on the market. Govt offer tax incentives for 'business vehicles' so you just find a loophole that suits and run your oversized and unnecessary utility vehicle in the cities and towns because...

machismo.

The same sort of thing applies in Australia with the added effect of a flourishing import and conversion industry bringing in supersized US trucks.

That sort of thinking needs to be disincentivised and a rigorous tax regime is probably the easiest way to do it. Either that or punitive registration costs. There will be a small minority of primary producers who genuinely need light truck style vehicles and a mechanism could be found to reduce the penalty for those users somehow... but the current market with its heavy preference worldwide for SUV type vehicles shows us the balance is way out of whack. The arument for some sort of indemnity somehow holds sway despite applying to a small minority.

The light truck culture that exists in the US and apparently Australia is not an issue here. The tradies etc who could use tax advantages to buy pick ups typically buy panel vans, which is why the Ford Transit is consistently among the best selling vehicles in the UK.

The SUV issue you mention is a big one. Although the luxury end of the market being is particularly guilty of buying high spec Range Rovers, G Wagens etc when they would be practically better off with a luxury car, it is as you suggest a global issue and an issue right across the market with SUVs, pretend SUVs (all the size and none of the capability) and crossovers dominating the market when traditional cars would be a cheaper option and be better at the job most people need rather than want.

I was being a bit facetious when I mentioned trailers as I appreciate how hard it is to tell the difference between someone buying a Defender (for example) because they really need to tow 3.5 tons and someone (like one of our friends in Perth (UK)) who has bought one for the image and dog walking.

[epwc]

There are bucket loads of smaller cars that would do that. I drove from Glasgow to Essex in a Qashqai in the storms last January without feeling like I needed something bigger/more powerful/more rugged.

[Sandstorm]

I guess the question is why do you need something like the disco sport?

Quite.

Although why does he feel he needs to trade in his existing car if only for occasional use & seems to run fine? The output in building his new (any fuel) Disco will far out way another decade of Dirty Diesel Driving in his existing SUV.

You can ask me, you know

I knew you were typing a long story about at the time...

[inactionman]

Quite.

Although why does he feel he needs to trade in his existing car if only for occasional use & seems to run fine? The output in building his new (any fuel) Disco will far out way another decade of Dirty Diesel Driving in his existing SUV.

You can ask me, you know

I knew you were typing a long story about at the time...

You're very considerate

[inactionman]

There are bucket loads of smaller cars that would do that. I drove from Glasgow to Essex in a Qashqai in the storms last January without feeling like I needed something bigger/more powerful/more rugged.

As an ex-employee of Jaguar Land Rover, I respectfully disagree.