NPR

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:58 am You mean you guys missed the release of their new mascot? A hawk, which doesn't sound too bad, until he started posting on Twitter. He's called Tom-A-Hawk...

Someone must just be taking the piss. Within a few hours the official twitter account was deleted though.

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:22 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Are they dressing up as William Wallace or as Mel Gibson? One is historically questionable and the other is racist and anti-semitic

Niegs wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:30 pm This is a significant step.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000zqnr

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:39 am

Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:22 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Are they dressing up as William Wallace or as Mel Gibson? One is historically questionable and the other is racist and anti-semitic

one of the worst things I've ever seen was the sculpture of Wallace with Mel Gibson's puss on it.

There is a good new sculpture of Wallace and Gromit in Preston though, I much prefer that.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:37 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Probably, as to whether or not I'd take offence it would depend on the context, but I'd reserve the right to say they were dickheads for doing it.

On the "robustness" of culture, Gaelic was outlawed in Scotland and the law was enforced at the end of a bayonet and rifle barrel, children were beaten in school for speaking the language they learned as babies. The Clearances were perhaps the biggest betrayal of Highland culture, it wasn't just the movement of people off the land, it was that the foundations of the culture itself were broken by the betrayal. It's not easy for a culture to survive that kind of treatment.

The Scots language went the same way but that was done differently, it was looked down upon and derided, that process even has a name, The Cultural Cringe.
There was an interesting programme about Walter Scott on tv the other week and it was interesting to hear that Scots was spoken at every level of society in his day, but that is not the case now. I was reprimanded and punished in school for speaking it, now I barely know any of the language spoken in my grandparents' house.

On the Vikings and Scandinavia, the Sami people suffered a similar fate, their languages were outlawed in Scandinavian countries. An unlikely counter to this comes from Disney of all things, they apparently hired people to consult on the Sami culture for the film Frozen, and it was well received by Samis.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:58 am You mean you guys missed the release of their new mascot? A hawk, which doesn't sound too bad, until he started posting on Twitter. He's called Tom-A-Hawk...

Someone must just be taking the piss. Within a few hours the official twitter account was deleted though.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:37 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:28 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’d say the less robust cultures would be those who were historically oppressed. Especially where the characterisations are styled during such a period of history.

And so if you’re not offended you’re an oppressor.

QED

On this angle, started by Toga.

English and other non Scot kids or even adults in fancy dress, dressing up as William Wallace ….

Is that cultural appropriation? Racist?

Probably, as to whether or not I'd take offence it would depend on the context, but I'd reserve the right to say they were dickheads for doing it.

On the "robustness" of culture, Gaelic was outlawed in Scotland and the law was enforced at the end of a bayonet and rifle barrel, children were beaten in school for speaking the language they learned as babies. The Clearances were perhaps the biggest betrayal of Highland culture, it wasn't just the movement of people off the land, it was that the foundations of the culture itself were broken by the betrayal. It's not easy for a culture to survive that kind of treatment.

The Scots language went the same way but that was done differently, it was looked down upon and derided, that process even has a name, The Cultural Cringe.
There was an interesting programme about Walter Scott on tv the other week and it was interesting to hear that Scots was spoken at every level of society in his day, but that is not the case now. I was reprimanded and punished in school for speaking it, now I barely know any of the language spoken in my grandparents' house.

On the Vikings and Scandinavia, the Sami people suffered a similar fate, their languages were outlawed in Scandinavian countries. An unlikely counter to this comes from Disney of all things, they apparently hired people to consult on the Sami culture for the film Frozen, and it was well received by Samis.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:57 pm Exeter have finally got a sponsor for their totally not offensive shirts.

It's a property development company

That built the hotel at the ground

And is owned by Tony Rowe.

Looks like they were beating the sponsors off with a stick, eh.

Niegs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:11 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:57 pm Exeter have finally got a sponsor for their totally not offensive shirts.

It's a property development company

That built the hotel at the ground

And is owned by Tony Rowe.

Looks like they were beating the sponsors off with a stick, eh.

It’s just struck me that one potential defence (though I can’t say I’ve heard this) is that rebranding during the pandemic would be expensive and risky with financial uncertainty (last season).

And now Tony is dumping how much more of his money into this stubborn defence?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:09 am There's been a good few alternative designs thought up for a "Chiefs" logo that refers to the Dumnonii tribes that used to be in the area. The designs looked neat, just amateur stuff but looked a lot better than the native American caricature.

The Club was recently asked by one of our supporter groups to review the wearing of faux Native American headdresses and other cultural signifiers at our stadium. We have found it difficult to know how best to deal with this issue, which is why we have taken time to consult those more knowledgeable about this subject, including a number of external stakeholders and members of the Native American community.

Wasps made a commitment to put equality, diversity and inclusion at the heart of what we do. This Club, and the wider rugby community, is at its best when every person involved in the game feels respected, included, and supported.

Recent events such as the Black Lives Matter movement, the continued racist abuse aimed at high profile sports stars and rising intolerance towards LGBTQ+ people have made it clear that diversity and inclusion are not just political issues, they are human ones.

We know that engaging in dialogue and being prepared to voice an opinion will sometimes be uncomfortable, difficult and may not always be popular. Having the conversation though and being willing to listen, question, reflect and learn, is how we move forward and hold ourselves to account.

Many topics and behaviours which were once tolerated, such as cultural appropriation, are no longer acceptable. Just because something isn’t offensive to you, doesn’t mean it isn’t offensive. Even though we do not want to create a professionally offended society, we do need to recognise that times and opinions change.

Since 2020, several sports teams around the world have recognised that the appropriation of another culture is something they can no longer justify. Last year there was a public focus on the prominent use of appropriated names and iconography by professional franchises including the Washington Football Team (formerly known as the ‘Redskins’ until July 2020) and in Canada, the Edmonton Eskimos have become the Edmonton Elks.

Respect for all cultures is a crucial part of including everyone in this amazing game. We at Wasps believe that cultural appropriation, “the act of taking or using things from a culture that is not your own, especially without showing that you understand or respect this culture” and, therefore, the wearing of faux Native American headdresses has the potential to cause offence and doesn’t align with our values.

However, having taken counsel on this issue, it is clear that to drive real change we need a sport wide position to be reached. We have, therefore, approached Premiership Rugby, the RFU and the RFU’s newly formed Diversity and Inclusion working group to ask that this issue is formally addressed.

At this current time, we will not be issuing an arena wide ban on the wearing of faux Native American attire, as one club acting in isolation has the potential to cause further division and uncertainty. However, we do not support the wearing of such items, discourage supporters from wearing them and will be revisiting this decision in due course.

Wasps want to be part of positive Equality, Diversity and Inclusivity change, and will continue to encourage the entire rugby community to take action against inequality and other forms of discrimination. We are committed to doing more to tackle racism and to championing diversity in sport.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:12 am Looks a lot like woke opportunism by Wasps. I'd be far more impressed if Wasps fans all dressed as cowboys.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:12 am Looks a lot like woke opportunism by Wasps. I'd be far more impressed if Wasps fans all dressed as cowboys.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:14 am Look, I get it, I really do. But how many fans do Wasps actually have? 5,000?, 10,000? 50,000 perhaps? And how many of those are part of this supporters group? 5?, 10?, 50?

This could have be dealt with through different channels, probably small enough numbers for a personal visit from the CEO.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:14 am Look, I get it, I really do. But how many fans do Wasps actually have? 5,000?, 10,000? 50,000 perhaps? And how many of those are part of this supporters group? 5?, 10?, 50?

This could have be dealt with through different channels, probably small enough numbers for a personal visit from the CEO.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:14 am Look, I get it, I really do. But how many fans do Wasps actually have? 5,000?, 10,000? 50,000 perhaps? And how many of those are part of this supporters group? 5?, 10?, 50?

This could have be dealt with through different channels, probably small enough numbers for a personal visit from the CEO.

You are a very silly person sometimes.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:54 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:14 am Look, I get it, I really do. But how many fans do Wasps actually have? 5,000?, 10,000? 50,000 perhaps? And how many of those are part of this supporters group? 5?, 10?, 50?

This could have be dealt with through different channels, probably small enough numbers for a personal visit from the CEO.

You are a very silly person sometimes.

There are 13 clubs in the Premiership, do you think the demographics of the fans from the other 11 clubs are vastly different in how they view Exeter Chiefs?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pm I probably dislike Exeter as much if not more than any other club, I'm not defending them or their use of native American iconography. However, I don't think a very small minority fan's group from another club 200 miles away from Exeter is the way to deal with this. If those fans feel strongly about it then they should boycott watching Wasps the one time every year that Exeter play there and maybe hold up a few placards outside the ground. The way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pm I probably dislike Exeter as much if not more than any other club, I'm not defending them or their use of native American iconography. However, I don't think a very small minority fan's group from another club 200 miles away from Exeter is the way to deal with this. If those fans feel strongly about it then they should boycott watching Wasps the one time every year that Exeter play there and maybe hold up a few placards outside the ground. The way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pmThe way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:13 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pm I probably dislike Exeter as much if not more than any other club, I'm not defending them or their use of native American iconography. However, I don't think a very small minority fan's group from another club 200 miles away from Exeter is the way to deal with this. If those fans feel strongly about it then they should boycott watching Wasps the one time every year that Exeter play there and maybe hold up a few placards outside the ground. The way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

How would boycotting a home wasps game help?

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:17 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pmThe way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

Isn't this... exactly what the statement infers they're doing?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:18 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:13 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pm I probably dislike Exeter as much if not more than any other club, I'm not defending them or their use of native American iconography. However, I don't think a very small minority fan's group from another club 200 miles away from Exeter is the way to deal with this. If those fans feel strongly about it then they should boycott watching Wasps the one time every year that Exeter play there and maybe hold up a few placards outside the ground. The way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

How would boycotting a home wasps game help?

They don't want to legitimise the game by paying to watch it. They either feel strongly about it or they don't.