NPR

Begbie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:41 am A few surprises in there.

Really throwing the net wide on props and a sure sign that Rodd has chosen England (fair enough IMO).

Begbie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:41 am A few surprises in there.

Didnt see Nic Auterac not Javan Sebastian being in there! Otherwise it looks interesting, good to see some of the young guys getting a chance and for some of the more established guys having a rest/time to recover from injuries. Saw Bayliss score a good try at the weekend, he fits into the squad really nicely - big fast and mobile back row forward and brings some line out options too. Will Sione Tupilolotu play for Scotland before playing for the Weegies?

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:36 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:41 am A few surprises in there.

Didnt see Nic Auterac not Javan Sebastian being in there! Otherwise it looks interesting, good to see some of the young guys getting a chance and for some of the more established guys having a rest/time to recover from injuries. Saw Bayliss score a good try at the weekend, he fits into the squad really nicely - big fast and mobile back row forward and brings some line out options too. Will Sione Tupilolotu play for Scotland before playing for the Weegies?

When we're saying Eddie Jones throws players on the pile after declaring for England we should remember Tuipolotu getting in the Scotland squad before he played for Glasgow whilst Rory Hutchinson sits at home.

It's not just Eddie who plays eligibility games.

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:36 pm Didnt see Nic Auterac not Javan Sebastian being in there! Otherwise it looks interesting, good to see some of the young guys getting a chance and for some of the more established guys having a rest/time to recover from injuries. Saw Bayliss score a good try at the weekend, he fits into the squad really nicely - big fast and mobile back row forward and brings some line out options too. Will Sione Tupilolotu play for Scotland before playing for the Weegies?

Surprised Auterac has been selected as he has never appeared to be a test quality prop. Serial club hopper, bit of a sicknote and rarely a regular starter for the teams he's played for. Assume he's parent/grandparent qualified as he was born in London ad played England U20?
Bayliss has been on top form this season, an excellent prospect. Again, I assume he's grandparent qualified as he was born in England and played age group in England having attended Millfield.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:38 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:36 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:41 am A few surprises in there.

Didnt see Nic Auterac not Javan Sebastian being in there! Otherwise it looks interesting, good to see some of the young guys getting a chance and for some of the more established guys having a rest/time to recover from injuries. Saw Bayliss score a good try at the weekend, he fits into the squad really nicely - big fast and mobile back row forward and brings some line out options too. Will Sione Tupilolotu play for Scotland before playing for the Weegies?

When we're saying Eddie Jones throws players on the pile after declaring for England we should remember Tuipolotu getting in the Scotland squad before he played for Glasgow whilst Rory Hutchinson sits at home.

It's not just Eddie who plays eligibility games.

I don't get it to be honest. Fair enough, I understand there is an implied imperative to cap in demand players like Ashman, Redpath etc. who are duel qualified and in demand at the earliest possible date. I don't understand, however, seeking to cap guys like Tupilolotu so early, I can't see that anyone else is pushing to cap him so there is no danger of 'losing' him. Let him prove his worth at Glasgow and if he excels then cap him.

If I were Hutchinson, or to be honest even someone like McDowall I would be a bit unhappy at that.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:52 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:36 pm Didnt see Nic Auterac not Javan Sebastian being in there! Otherwise it looks interesting, good to see some of the young guys getting a chance and for some of the more established guys having a rest/time to recover from injuries. Saw Bayliss score a good try at the weekend, he fits into the squad really nicely - big fast and mobile back row forward and brings some line out options too. Will Sione Tupilolotu play for Scotland before playing for the Weegies?

Surprised Auterac has been selected as he has never appeared to be a test quality prop. Serial club hopper, bit of a sicknote and rarely a regular starter for the teams he's played for. Assume he's parent/grandparent qualified as he was born in London ad played England U20?
Bayliss has been on top form this season, an excellent prospect. Again, I assume he's grandparent qualified as he was born in England and played age group in England having attended Millfield.

I could understand if he were a tighthead, but as a loosehead he would be maybe 5th choice at best, and that's probably optimistic. A bit of a weird pick to be honest.

Just noticed, Schoeman isn't in there - presumably he'll be added to the squad for the Romania/Georgia games? I think we need to cap him this year or wait two more years? If he's fit just now, seems a bit of a gamble to wait till the autumn?

Interesting squad, I would go something like this (assuming the squad will not change between matches):

For Georgia:
Kebble; Turner; Berghan
Cummings; Skinner
Richie (c); Crosbie; Fagerson
Horne; Hastings
Scott; Steyn
McLean; Kinghorn
Hoyland

For Romania:
Hislop; Ashman; Sebastian
Henderson; Hodgson
Richie (c); Darge; Bradbury
Dobie; Thompson
Lang; Tuipulotu
McLean; Blain
Forbes

For England A:
Bhatti; Cherry; Berghan
Cummings (c); Craig
Bayliss; Crosbie; Bradbury
Lang; Scott
Steele; Hastings
Hoyland; Blain
Kinghorn

England might well be the toughest game so not too much inexperience for that, with the most experimentation for the Romania game.

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:07 pm Just noticed, Schoeman isn't in there - presumably he'll be added to the squad for the Romania/Georgia games? I think we need to cap him this year or wait two more years? If he's fit just now, seems a bit of a gamble to wait till the autumn?

Perhaps naming someone for a squad when not yet eligible is too much, even for the SRU!

At the risk of being the only one posting, missing from this squad that I might have expected to have made it:
Schoeman (ineligible?), Kerr, Rae, Young (settling into Edinburgh?), Toolis, Hunter-Hill, G Graham, Haining (injured?), Ally Miller, Vellacott (settling?), Jaco, Tagive, McDowall, Hutchinson, Bennett, Johnston, Currie

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:24 pm

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:07 pm Just noticed, Schoeman isn't in there - presumably he'll be added to the squad for the Romania/Georgia games? I think we need to cap him this year or wait two more years? If he's fit just now, seems a bit of a gamble to wait till the autumn?

Perhaps naming someone for a squad when not yet eligible is too much, even for the SRU!

Possibly, but didn't we do that with Visser? I think he went on tour but was only actually eligible for the final match

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:32 pm At the risk of being the only one posting, missing from this squad that I might have expected to have made it:
Schoeman (ineligible?), Kerr, Rae, Young (settling into Edinburgh?), Toolis, Hunter-Hill, G Graham, Haining (injured?), Ally Miller, Vellacott (settling?), Jaco, Tagive, McDowall, Hutchinson, Bennett, Johnston, Currie

I can say that Vellacott has barely had any play time for Wasps this season. Even not knowing much about your other 9 options, it'd be pretty harsh on them for him to get a call up since he has basically no game output or form to point to.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:40 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:32 pm At the risk of being the only one posting, missing from this squad that I might have expected to have made it:
Schoeman (ineligible?), Kerr, Rae, Young (settling into Edinburgh?), Toolis, Hunter-Hill, G Graham, Haining (injured?), Ally Miller, Vellacott (settling?), Jaco, Tagive, McDowall, Hutchinson, Bennett, Johnston, Currie

I can say that Vellacott has barely had any play time for Wasps this season. Even not knowing much about your other 9 options, it'd be pretty harsh on them for him to get a call up since he has basically no game output or form to point to.

Sure, but he is presumably moving to Edinburgh with a view to Scotland caps - it would make sense to take a look at him. However, the SRU generally give any SQ player moving to Scotland the summer off to get settled etc., so I presume they are doing this with him.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:52 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:36 pm Didnt see Nic Auterac not Javan Sebastian being in there! Otherwise it looks interesting, good to see some of the young guys getting a chance and for some of the more established guys having a rest/time to recover from injuries. Saw Bayliss score a good try at the weekend, he fits into the squad really nicely - big fast and mobile back row forward and brings some line out options too. Will Sione Tupilolotu play for Scotland before playing for the Weegies?

Surprised Auterac has been selected as he has never appeared to be a test quality prop. Serial club hopper, bit of a sicknote and rarely a regular starter for the teams he's played for. Assume he's parent/grandparent qualified as he was born in London ad played England U20?
Bayliss has been on top form this season, an excellent prospect. Again, I assume he's grandparent qualified as he was born in England and played age group in England having attended Millfield.

Re: Auterac - Needs must for the A game I think. We are talking arguably 5th-7th choice LHP when all are fit post July.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:23 pm Interesting squad, I would go something like this (assuming the squad will not change between matches):

For Georgia:
Kebble; Turner; Berghan
Cummings; Skinner
Richie (c); Crosbie; Fagerson
Horne; Hastings
Scott; Steyn
McLean; Kinghorn
Hoyland

For Romania:
Hislop; Ashman; Sebastian
Henderson; Hodgson
Richie (c); Darge; Bradbury
Dobie; Thompson
Lang; Tuipulotu
McLean; Blain
Forbes

For England A:
Bhatti; Cherry; Berghan
Cummings (c); Craig
Bayliss; Crosbie; Bradbury
Lang; Scott
Steele; Hastings
Hoyland; Blain
Kinghorn

England might well be the toughest game so not too much inexperience for that, with the most experimentation for the Romania game.

I am all for giving youth a chance but losing to either of Romania and Georgia would be inexcusable. Winning is a habit and one that we shouldn't take for granted. Hastings starts both tests for me and Thomson can get the A game.

I also still think full caps need to be earned. Henderson can pick up and A cap but a full cap would be taking the piss a bit.

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:39 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:24 pm

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:07 pm Just noticed, Schoeman isn't in there - presumably he'll be added to the squad for the Romania/Georgia games? I think we need to cap him this year or wait two more years? If he's fit just now, seems a bit of a gamble to wait till the autumn?

Perhaps naming someone for a squad when not yet eligible is too much, even for the SRU!

Possibly, but didn't we do that with Visser? I think he went on tour but was only actually eligible for the final match

Not eligible until after the tour IIRC.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:32 pm At the risk of being the only one posting, missing from this squad that I might have expected to have made it:
Schoeman (ineligible?), Kerr, Rae, Young (settling into Edinburgh?), Toolis, Hunter-Hill, G Graham, Haining (injured?), Ally Miller, Vellacott (settling?), Jaco, Tagive, McDowall, Hutchinson, Bennett, Johnston, Currie

Shoeman as you say isn't eligible. Of the rest assuming Toolis and Haining are injured I think only Hutchinson is unlucky really. Currie will play for the U20s in the 6N and tbh if he isn't injured then Davidson is the unluckiest of all.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:00 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:40 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:32 pm At the risk of being the only one posting, missing from this squad that I might have expected to have made it:
Schoeman (ineligible?), Kerr, Rae, Young (settling into Edinburgh?), Toolis, Hunter-Hill, G Graham, Haining (injured?), Ally Miller, Vellacott (settling?), Jaco, Tagive, McDowall, Hutchinson, Bennett, Johnston, Currie

I can say that Vellacott has barely had any play time for Wasps this season. Even not knowing much about your other 9 options, it'd be pretty harsh on them for him to get a call up since he has basically no game output or form to point to.

Sure, but he is presumably moving to Edinburgh with a view to Scotland caps - it would make sense to take a look at him. However, the SRU generally give any SQ player moving to Scotland the summer off to get settled etc., so I presume they are doing this with him.

Moving to Edinburgh because he was in danger of falling into obscurity and the SRU don't like any SQ player close to the discussion being left without a club. At 26/27 it is time for him to start performing. Has shown very little to suggest he deserves a call up. At least Shiel has made it through being coached by Hodge, he deserves a mercy call up.

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:39 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:24 pm

NorfolkScot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:07 pm Just noticed, Schoeman isn't in there - presumably he'll be added to the squad for the Romania/Georgia games? I think we need to cap him this year or wait two more years? If he's fit just now, seems a bit of a gamble to wait till the autumn?

Perhaps naming someone for a squad when not yet eligible is too much, even for the SRU!

Possibly, but didn't we do that with Visser? I think he went on tour but was only actually eligible for the final match

Have they maybe changed the rules since then? I don't think he is allowed to be included until eligible, I have recollection of a similar instance a couple of years ago. People were asking why x player wasn't included "just to train" to get round the ruling.

I think Dobie would have been better playing for U20s if he was going as captain. He'll be capped for the full team soon enough. If he wasn't going to be Capt then this is a better tour.

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:39 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:00 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:40 pm

I can say that Vellacott has barely had any play time for Wasps this season. Even not knowing much about your other 9 options, it'd be pretty harsh on them for him to get a call up since he has basically no game output or form to point to.

Sure, but he is presumably moving to Edinburgh with a view to Scotland caps - it would make sense to take a look at him. However, the SRU generally give any SQ player moving to Scotland the summer off to get settled etc., so I presume they are doing this with him.

Moving to Edinburgh because he was in danger of falling into obscurity and the SRU don't like any SQ player close to the discussion being left without a club. At 26/27 it is time for him to start performing. Has shown very little to suggest he deserves a call up. At least Shiel has made it through being coached by Hodge, he deserves a mercy call up.

Vellacott is really nowhere near bering an international scrum half. The reason he keeps hopping from club to club is he ends up as 3rd/4th choice....behind the academy youngsters at Wasps

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:32 pm At the risk of being the only one posting, missing from this squad that I might have expected to have made it:
Schoeman (ineligible?), Kerr, Rae, Young (settling into Edinburgh?), Toolis, Hunter-Hill, G Graham, Haining (injured?), Ally Miller, Vellacott (settling?), Jaco, Tagive, McDowall, Hutchinson, Bennett, Johnston, Currie

Did Kerr get a full time deal at Bristol or is he still short term? I'm surprised he isn't there. Also McBurney too - we're short on hookers.

Hunter-Hill is stuck behind Swinson at Sarries. I don't think he'll make it.

Miller is a great shout, surprised he's not there. Gary Graham won't play for Scotland again. His illdiscipline Vs Wales was as much a reason we lost as any.

Hutchinson not there for Tuipolotu is disappointing. Happy for Scott - it's hard for someone who is close to 50 caps to not have enough but I don't think he does! I think Lang is better than we as fans give him credit for. McDowell is just getting back to fitness.

Also Tagive is a good shout he's a good player.

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:29 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:23 pm Interesting squad, I would go something like this (assuming the squad will not change between matches):

For Georgia:
Kebble; Turner; Berghan
Cummings; Skinner
Richie (c); Crosbie; Fagerson
Horne; Hastings
Scott; Steyn
McLean; Kinghorn
Hoyland

For Romania:
Hislop; Ashman; Sebastian
Henderson; Hodgson
Richie (c); Darge; Bradbury
Dobie; Thompson
Lang; Tuipulotu
McLean; Blain
Forbes

For England A:
Bhatti; Cherry; Berghan
Cummings (c); Craig
Bayliss; Crosbie; Bradbury
Lang; Scott
Steele; Hastings
Hoyland; Blain
Kinghorn

England might well be the toughest game so not too much inexperience for that, with the most experimentation for the Romania game.

I am all for giving youth a chance but losing to either of Romania and Georgia would be inexcusable. Winning is a habit and one that we shouldn't take for granted. Hastings starts both tests for me and Thomson can get the A game.

I also still think full caps need to be earned. Henderson can pick up and A cap but a full cap would be taking the piss a bit.

I agree on winning, but that is a team picked to win. I think the England game is likely to be tougher, and we should want to win that too. Having said that, I expect you will prove correct, as Hastings is unlikely to be expected to play an A game.

Henderson will be capped - he is breaking into a Prem team at 21 and is being looked at by England. Romania is the idea opportunity to do that without worrying too much about the opposition. He might start on the bench, but he will be capped, as will Ashman.

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:39 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:00 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:40 pm

I can say that Vellacott has barely had any play time for Wasps this season. Even not knowing much about your other 9 options, it'd be pretty harsh on them for him to get a call up since he has basically no game output or form to point to.

Sure, but he is presumably moving to Edinburgh with a view to Scotland caps - it would make sense to take a look at him. However, the SRU generally give any SQ player moving to Scotland the summer off to get settled etc., so I presume they are doing this with him.

Moving to Edinburgh because he was in danger of falling into obscurity and the SRU don't like any SQ player close to the discussion being left without a club. At 26/27 it is time for him to start performing. Has shown very little to suggest he deserves a call up. At least Shiel has made it through being coached by Hodge, he deserves a mercy call up.

Who would have thought Dave Cherry or Nick Haining would make an impact at international level. Fair point on the mercy call up

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:29 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:23 pm Interesting squad, I would go something like this (assuming the squad will not change between matches):

For Georgia:
Kebble; Turner; Berghan
Cummings; Skinner
Richie (c); Crosbie; Fagerson
Horne; Hastings
Scott; Steyn
McLean; Kinghorn
Hoyland

For Romania:
Hislop; Ashman; Sebastian
Henderson; Hodgson
Richie (c); Darge; Bradbury
Dobie; Thompson
Lang; Tuipulotu
McLean; Blain
Forbes

For England A:
Bhatti; Cherry; Berghan
Cummings (c); Craig
Bayliss; Crosbie; Bradbury
Lang; Scott
Steele; Hastings
Hoyland; Blain
Kinghorn

England might well be the toughest game so not too much inexperience for that, with the most experimentation for the Romania game.

I am all for giving youth a chance but losing to either of Romania and Georgia would be inexcusable. Winning is a habit and one that we shouldn't take for granted. Hastings starts both tests for me and Thomson can get the A game.

I also still think full caps need to be earned. Henderson can pick up and A cap but a full cap would be taking the piss a bit.

Thomson keeping Hastings out of the 10 shirt for Glasgow currently. I appreciate that might because Hastings is leaving but equally Thomson has been the best young player in Scotland this season.

Cameron Henderson has at least 15 games for a very good Leicester team since moving. First year out of the under20s that's very good going. Is getting into a good Leicester side to be 3rd choice lock less impressive than Gloucester's third choice (and older lock) Alex Craig? Or Jamie Hodgson who is 3rd pick at Edinburgh at best. Or McDonald who is 3rd pick for Glasgow?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:07 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:39 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:00 pm

Sure, but he is presumably moving to Edinburgh with a view to Scotland caps - it would make sense to take a look at him. However, the SRU generally give any SQ player moving to Scotland the summer off to get settled etc., so I presume they are doing this with him.

Moving to Edinburgh because he was in danger of falling into obscurity and the SRU don't like any SQ player close to the discussion being left without a club. At 26/27 it is time for him to start performing. Has shown very little to suggest he deserves a call up. At least Shiel has made it through being coached by Hodge, he deserves a mercy call up.

Who would have thought Dave Cherry or Nick Haining would make an impact at international level. Fair point on the mercy call up

They earned it through performances for Edinburgh. If Vellacott comes in and earns it then fair play. But he hasn't done that yet.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:18 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:29 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:23 pm Interesting squad, I would go something like this (assuming the squad will not change between matches):

For Georgia:
Kebble; Turner; Berghan
Cummings; Skinner
Richie (c); Crosbie; Fagerson
Horne; Hastings
Scott; Steyn
McLean; Kinghorn
Hoyland

For Romania:
Hislop; Ashman; Sebastian
Henderson; Hodgson
Richie (c); Darge; Bradbury
Dobie; Thompson
Lang; Tuipulotu
McLean; Blain
Forbes

For England A:
Bhatti; Cherry; Berghan
Cummings (c); Craig
Bayliss; Crosbie; Bradbury
Lang; Scott
Steele; Hastings
Hoyland; Blain
Kinghorn

England might well be the toughest game so not too much inexperience for that, with the most experimentation for the Romania game.

I am all for giving youth a chance but losing to either of Romania and Georgia would be inexcusable. Winning is a habit and one that we shouldn't take for granted. Hastings starts both tests for me and Thomson can get the A game.

I also still think full caps need to be earned. Henderson can pick up and A cap but a full cap would be taking the piss a bit.

Thomson keeping Hastings out of the 10 shirt for Glasgow currently. I appreciate that might because Hastings is leaving but equally Thomson has been the best young player in Scotland this season.

Cameron Henderson has at least 15 games for a very good Leicester team since moving. First year out of the under20s that's very good going. Is getting into a good Leicester side to be 3rd choice lock less impressive than Gloucester's third choice (and older lock) Alex Craig? Or Jamie Hodgson who is 3rd pick at Edinburgh at best. Or McDonald who is 3rd pick for Glasgow?

Hastings is the back up 10 at international level, and as you say he is only playing 15 because he is leaving and the last few games have been glorified friendlies. He has done well but that doesn't mean he should be given starts at international level over Hastings who is hardly an experienced international.

I wouldn't be giving Hodgson an easy cap either and MacDonald wasn't listed in the capped internationals above. Henderson has played 7 league games for Tigers this year and is developing nicely but that doesn't mean we should be gifting full caps to him and Hodgson. Craig has been around the squad through the 6N and had a nice cameo v France.

Give the young guns the start in the A game, that is what it is there for.

I do like the look of that squad given who's available - it should be plenty to beat both Georgia & Romania. The "A" game is harder to call, depends what squad England put together but, would assume it'll largely be very fringe players, I can't imagine any established members of the England squad rushing to take part. It wouldn't surprise me to see Eddie picking the likes of Dingwall & Rodd and any other SQ player we've been interested in though.

I'd like to see a blend of youth and experience in the partnerships for the other 2 matches, e.g. Dobie & Hastings for the Georgia game, Horne & Thompson for the Romania. Likewise, have Cummings start one match with one of Hodgson, Henderson or Craig alongside him, and Skinner start the other match.

Georgia (though, I fully expect Schoeman to get a call up for one of these, he's supposed to qualify in July)

Kebble;Ashman;Berghan
Cummings;Henderson
Richie(c); Fagerson; Crosbie
Dobie; Hastings
Lang; Tuipolotu
Kinghorn; McLean; Forbes

Romania
Bhatti; Turner;Sebastian
Skinner; Hodgson
Richie(c); Bayliss; Darge
Horne; Thompson
Scott; Steyn
Blain; McLean; Hoyland

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:43 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:18 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:29 pm

I am all for giving youth a chance but losing to either of Romania and Georgia would be inexcusable. Winning is a habit and one that we shouldn't take for granted. Hastings starts both tests for me and Thomson can get the A game.

I also still think full caps need to be earned. Henderson can pick up and A cap but a full cap would be taking the piss a bit.

Thomson keeping Hastings out of the 10 shirt for Glasgow currently. I appreciate that might because Hastings is leaving but equally Thomson has been the best young player in Scotland this season.

Cameron Henderson has at least 15 games for a very good Leicester team since moving. First year out of the under20s that's very good going. Is getting into a good Leicester side to be 3rd choice lock less impressive than Gloucester's third choice (and older lock) Alex Craig? Or Jamie Hodgson who is 3rd pick at Edinburgh at best. Or McDonald who is 3rd pick for Glasgow?

Hastings is the back up 10 at international level, and as you say he is only playing 15 because he is leaving and the last few games have been glorified friendlies. He has done well but that doesn't mean he should be given starts at international level over Hastings who is hardly an experienced international.

I wouldn't be giving Hodgson an easy cap either and MacDonald wasn't listed in the capped internationals above. Henderson has played 7 league games for Tigers this year and is developing nicely but that doesn't mean we should be gifting full caps to him and Hodgson. Craig has been around the squad through the 6N and had a nice cameo v France.

Give the young guns the start in the A game, that is what it is there for.

Glorified friendlies maybe but Thomson has had a good season overall and offers a point of difference at 10. He does kick the corners, his kicking sticks is above 90%. I think he easily deserves a shot Vs Romania or Georgia who aren't very good.

Henderson played a lot of challenge cup games. Granted not the highest standard but they got the final and took them seriously. I think he has enough merit to play as Craig who has played for Scotland already true but in an injury crises. If the autumn tests were tomorrow with no Lions I think both Thomson and Henderson would be in that squad.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:07 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:39 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:00 pm

Sure, but he is presumably moving to Edinburgh with a view to Scotland caps - it would make sense to take a look at him. However, the SRU generally give any SQ player moving to Scotland the summer off to get settled etc., so I presume they are doing this with him.

Moving to Edinburgh because he was in danger of falling into obscurity and the SRU don't like any SQ player close to the discussion being left without a club. At 26/27 it is time for him to start performing. Has shown very little to suggest he deserves a call up. At least Shiel has made it through being coached by Hodge, he deserves a mercy call up.

Who would have thought Dave Cherry or Nick Haining would make an impact at international level. Fair point on the mercy call up

My mate is a specialist throwing/hooker coach and analyst and has worked for the SRU with all the current crop of hookers. He rates Cherry way above Turner as an all round perfomer. He has also had a few sessions with Ashman who he thinks is the real deal and definitey a potential international

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:11 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:07 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:39 pm

Moving to Edinburgh because he was in danger of falling into obscurity and the SRU don't like any SQ player close to the discussion being left without a club. At 26/27 it is time for him to start performing. Has shown very little to suggest he deserves a call up. At least Shiel has made it through being coached by Hodge, he deserves a mercy call up.

Who would have thought Dave Cherry or Nick Haining would make an impact at international level. Fair point on the mercy call up

My mate is a specialist throwing/hooker coach and analyst and has worked for the SRU with all the current crop of hookers. He rates Cherry way above Turner as an all round perfomer. He has also had a few sessions with Ashman who he thinks is the real deal and definitey a potential international

Cherry has reliable darts which is a big point of difference. He's also surprisingly quick around the park and good over the ball. Turner has quite eye-catching physicality though.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:56 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:43 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:18 pm

Thomson keeping Hastings out of the 10 shirt for Glasgow currently. I appreciate that might because Hastings is leaving but equally Thomson has been the best young player in Scotland this season.

Cameron Henderson has at least 15 games for a very good Leicester team since moving. First year out of the under20s that's very good going. Is getting into a good Leicester side to be 3rd choice lock less impressive than Gloucester's third choice (and older lock) Alex Craig? Or Jamie Hodgson who is 3rd pick at Edinburgh at best. Or McDonald who is 3rd pick for Glasgow?

Hastings is the back up 10 at international level, and as you say he is only playing 15 because he is leaving and the last few games have been glorified friendlies. He has done well but that doesn't mean he should be given starts at international level over Hastings who is hardly an experienced international.

I wouldn't be giving Hodgson an easy cap either and MacDonald wasn't listed in the capped internationals above. Henderson has played 7 league games for Tigers this year and is developing nicely but that doesn't mean we should be gifting full caps to him and Hodgson. Craig has been around the squad through the 6N and had a nice cameo v France.

Give the young guns the start in the A game, that is what it is there for.

Glorified friendlies maybe but Thomson has had a good season overall and offers a point of difference at 10. He does kick the corners, his kicking sticks is above 90%. I think he easily deserves a shot Vs Romania or Georgia who aren't very good.

Henderson played a lot of challenge cup games. Granted not the highest standard but they got the final and took them seriously. I think he has enough merit to play as Craig who has played for Scotland already true but in an injury crises. If the autumn tests were tomorrow with no Lions I think both Thomson and Henderson would be in that squad.

I get all that and Thomson would still be on my bench for cap games.

Hastings is still only 24 and about 20 caps. In that hypothetical squad you speak of Hastings would still be starting 10.

Sam Skinner only has 10 caps and has been one of the form SQ locks all season and regularly starts big games for Exeter. The 3rd lock is open to competition in this squad but the 4 top SQ locks are still Gray, Cummings, Skinner and probably GIlchrist given the way he finished the 6N.

We can't just over look the needs of the players further up the pecking order for the sake of giving starts just for complete rotation sake. Caps still mean something and the mid 20s players still need the games.

Starting the A game and benching for the capped games is still an honour and the A game would be a better test for Thomson anyway. Playing Hastings in that game or Lang out of position (playing more at centre these days) seems like a wasted opportunity

To be fair it would be more the likes of Hislop and Sebastian getting starts in the capped games that would wind me up more than Thomson or the second rows.

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:23 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:56 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:43 pm

Hastings is the back up 10 at international level, and as you say he is only playing 15 because he is leaving and the last few games have been glorified friendlies. He has done well but that doesn't mean he should be given starts at international level over Hastings who is hardly an experienced international.

I wouldn't be giving Hodgson an easy cap either and MacDonald wasn't listed in the capped internationals above. Henderson has played 7 league games for Tigers this year and is developing nicely but that doesn't mean we should be gifting full caps to him and Hodgson. Craig has been around the squad through the 6N and had a nice cameo v France.

Give the young guns the start in the A game, that is what it is there for.

Glorified friendlies maybe but Thomson has had a good season overall and offers a point of difference at 10. He does kick the corners, his kicking sticks is above 90%. I think he easily deserves a shot Vs Romania or Georgia who aren't very good.

Henderson played a lot of challenge cup games. Granted not the highest standard but they got the final and took them seriously. I think he has enough merit to play as Craig who has played for Scotland already true but in an injury crises. If the autumn tests were tomorrow with no Lions I think both Thomson and Henderson would be in that squad.

I get all that and Thomson would still be on my bench for cap games.

Hastings is still only 24 and about 20 caps. In that hypothetical squad you speak of Hastings would still be starting 10.

Sam Skinner only has 10 caps and has been one of the form SQ locks all season and regularly starts big games for Exeter. The 3rd lock is open to competition in this squad but the 4 top SQ locks are still Gray, Cummings, Skinner and probably GIlchrist given the way he finished the 6N.

We can't just over look the needs of the players further up the pecking order for the sake of giving starts just for complete rotation sake. Caps still mean something and the mid 20s players still need the games.

Starting the A game and benching for the capped games is still an honour and the A game would be a better test for Thomson anyway. Playing Hastings in that game or Lang out of position (playing more at centre these days) seems like a wasted opportunity

To be fair it would be more the likes of Hislop and Sebastian getting starts in the capped games that would wind me up more than Thomson or the second rows.

I agree Hastings would be on the bench for a full Scotland team. However next full season if Thomson stays starting Glasgow 10 over Weir and Mioti I think it's an interesting discussion. Purely because Hastings and Russell are similar players but Thomson might be the man to control games for us in the more traditional way.

What's impressive about Thomson is that I don't think the coaches expected this to happen or Mioti and Weir wouldn't both have joined and Thomson would've played before Brandon Thompson turned into a puddle of nerves who lost Glasgow two games on the bounce. He's defying expectations and his kicking shows how hard he is working. Takes it all in his stride too my favourite game of his was Leinster away when Hastings was sent off. Or Glasgow at home his first start in a hoolie and he and Price had Edinburgh on strings. I think someone with not much experience who steps up in the tougher circumstances is someone who will make it.

Thought Skinner would have more caps. He's an interesting one because he does play big games for Exeter but seems to have fallen behind Gilchrist in Townsend's thoughts. Maybe he's a bit on the smaller side for an international lock.

True I am quite surprised Nel got the summer off as Sebastian will now play a lot of rugby. Hislop is a good story, how Allan Dell has fallen though. Probably should've taken the Glasgow deal over the LI cash.

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:22 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:11 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:07 pm

Who would have thought Dave Cherry or Nick Haining would make an impact at international level. Fair point on the mercy call up

My mate is a specialist throwing/hooker coach and analyst and has worked for the SRU with all the current crop of hookers. He rates Cherry way above Turner as an all round perfomer. He has also had a few sessions with Ashman who he thinks is the real deal and definitey a potential international

Cherry has reliable darts which is a big point of difference. He's also surprisingly quick around the park and good over the ball. Turner has quite eye-catching physicality though.

One of my mates played at a decent level including a lot with Stew Mel in the old Prem 1. He played with Turner quite a bit and is of the opinion he is an absolute animal, easily the most physical he has ever played with.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:47 pm

Thought Skinner would have more caps. He's an interesting one because he does play big games for Exeter but seems to have fallen behind Gilchrist in Townsend's thoughts. Maybe he's a bit on the smaller side for an international lock.

True I am quite surprised Nel got the summer off as Sebastian will now play a lot of rugby. Hislop is a good story, how Allan Dell has fallen though. Probably should've taken the Glasgow deal over the LI cash.

I think Skinner was caught trying to be a lock/6. He has definitely bulked up over the last season. He's been playing pretty well this season too. Will be interesting to see how he continues to develop.

I thought I’d read somewhere that Hutchinson was injured or needed an operation in the summer. Probably wrong.

I think Skinner would have had a load more caps and be starting most games but for a run of very badly timed injuries. He’ll be back very strong at some point

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:35 pm I thought I’d read somewhere that Hutchinson was injured or needed an operation in the summer. Probably wrong.

I think Skinner would have had a load more caps and be starting most games but for a run of very badly timed injuries. He’ll be back very strong at some point

If Hutchinson is fit and just hasn’t been picked, then I am truly scratching my head. How can his stock have fallen so far? With Harris away with the Lions, you’d put money on his getting at least a couple of caps. If he is injured then it would make a lot more sense.

EDIT: looks like he was fit to start for Northampton against Newcastle a fortnight ago. So back to the head-scratching.

Scotland squad for 2021 Under-20 Six Nations

FORWARDS
Jamie Drummond* (Ayrshire Bulls)
Patrick Harrison* (Southern Knights/Edinburgh Rugby)
Duncan Hood* (Heriot’s Blues)
Tom Banatvala(Durham University)
Michael Jones* (Boroughmuir Bears)
Corey Bowker (Leeds Beckett University)
George Breese* (Stirling Wolves)
Olly Frostick (Ealing Trailfinders)
Cole Lamberton* (Watsonians Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Alex Samuel* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors) CAPATIN
Max Williamson* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors)
Euan Ferrie (Glasgow Hawks)
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)
Rhys Tait (Southern Knights)
Ollie Leatherbarrow (Exeter University)
Rory Jackson* (Ayrshire Bulls/Glasgow Warriors)
Ben Muncaster* (Watsonians Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Archie Smeaton (Cambridge University)

BACKS
Ethan McVicker (Melrose Rugby)
Murray Redpath (Newcastle University)
Cameron Scott* (Southern Knights/Edinburgh Rugby)
Euan Cunningham* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors)
Christian Townsend* (Ayrshire Bulls)
Thomas Glendinning* (Glasgow Hawks)
Scott King* (Heriot’s Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Michael Gray*(Boroughmuir Bears/Glasgow Warriors)
Elliot Gourlay (Sale Sharks)
Finlay Callaghan* (Ayrshire Bulls/Glasgow Warriors)
Adam Scott * (GHA)
Ollie Melville* (Boroughmuir Bears/Glasgow Warriors)
Harry Paterson* (Heriot’s Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Ross McKnight* (Stirling County)

*FOSROC Academy Supported Player.
Listed clubs are for the 2021 season.

Thanks for posting westport.

I was reading something earlier about the lack of pathways for borders players and how a huge Scottish rugby resource is being mismanaged, that squad kind of reflects that. Apparently there is only one true Borders man in the summer squad.

No Currie, is he injured?

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:08 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:35 pm I thought I’d read somewhere that Hutchinson was injured or needed an operation in the summer. Probably wrong.

I think Skinner would have had a load more caps and be starting most games but for a run of very badly timed injuries. He’ll be back very strong at some point

If Hutchinson is fit and just hasn’t been picked, then I am truly scratching my head. How can his stock have fallen so far? With Harris away with the Lions, you’d put money on his getting at least a couple of caps. If he is injured then it would make a lot more sense.

EDIT: looks like he was fit to start for Northampton against Newcastle a fortnight ago. So back to the head-scratching.

I read a quote from the Saints attack coach that Townsend had been in touch with Hutcheson and made him aware of what he needs to work on to be considered. So not injured.

Given his skills levels and potential I'd have thought it would have been better for Hutcheson to be working on these elements within the summer squad than put on the naughty step. But Townsend does seem to get obsessed on perceived weaknesses in some players whilst ignoring them in others.